Page:
master sodiummember
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada


Posted:
so I just got this thing in the mail from the U.S. navy, and on the front one of the only words it has on it besides the address is "NUKE". doesn't make me feel good with this whole war on people that have oil. oops, I mean terrorism. no wait I do mean what I said first.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
so, shoot everyone you think is doing something wrong?

and an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

I guess we should shoot people who run stop signs.

Lets shoot all the people who drive drunk, and the people who sell cigarettes.

Shoot people who commit adultry. Shoot the people who walk away from children or wives or husbands.

Shoot people who abuse or neglect their children. Shoot people who rape.

Shoot everyone who's ever killed anyone, however indirectly. Say they sold a car. They knew how high the rate of auto accidents is. Say they made a descision in the govt. to cut back on Welfare. well, they're toast now. Most people who have ever sold guns would have to be shot...

look, i'm sorry to go on like this. but why? why is shooting people going to solve ur problems?

please, why?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
When it comes to that specific topic that is my opinion. I am sorry you think that I want to shoot people for running stop signs, I dont. You took what I said way way way out of preportion. Thats ok though because its not like I never did that.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
but how is it different?

to say that one person is a terrorist and should be shot because thye may or may not indirectly cause someone's death and not another person?

that's what i'm asking... that's why i went and ran with it. why is it different in the case of drugs then the case of selling cars?

and, i apoligize for teh stop signs thing, that was a little out of proportion even for where i was going.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


arashiPooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx


Posted:
BTW before i burn any more bridges, DFQ, i'm just trying to be a peacemaker here, and channeling what words are necessary to chill things out. don't even get me started on how i feel personally about military violence and conditioning. i think i'd be arrested pretty quick like. you never know who's reading these things...but i do stand by what i said, i think that it is necessary to have a military. world peace is great, but look how crazy the world is RIGHT NOW. we got a ways to go. people torture people. and steal their food. and rape. and stuff.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
If you break the law by speeding going 1 MPH/KPH over the speed limt or you kill someone you are still breaking the law your right.

If they started exicuting people for speeding you would stop speeding pretty quick wouldnt you. I mean like no trial no nothing just you were speeding bang!!

Now with the drugs thing after several people get shot because they bought or transported drugs the populus would get the idea and not do them any more. That is all a theory full of holes I know but still its my opinoin.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Hmmmm...let's see...

A) Thank you guys for trying to moderate yourselves...(Big hug to you BenderTO on that). I have been following this a have been holding back on the shut down button. While there is alot of useless bitch slapping going on I see alot of valid points. However, suggestion, when addressing a statement, it is useful to also name the person you are addressing that way no one takes the statements personally. (*cough*ray*cough* )

B) During the Reagan administration the "Say no to Drugs" campaign, headed by Nancy Reagan, not a political figure head, actually was aimed at children and young teens. This program reduced drug abuse in that age group something like 40%. It was an incredible campaign that worked. When Bush Sr. stepped in, his wife chose not to be so activistic. And Nancy, now being and ex-Mrs. President, didn't have nearly the amount of backing and funding so the campaign lost momentum.
The success of this campaign could only be, in retrospect, shadowed over by the extreme stupidity of the "Star Wars" that Reagan started.

C) Hmmmm, US military tactics...right or wrong? I supposed that when the Brits over ran America that was okay. That when Rome took over the exsisting world that was okay. That when France used any free space they thought available as a nuclear testing groung, that was okay. That the guerrilla invasions in S.A. are okay. That the oppression of the European on indigenious people is alright. The inquisitions and burning time through out history are okay. Hmmmm..... suddenly US military tactics don't seem so isolated to the US military anymore now do they? So much for the "we learn from history" thing too, since we (humans) seem hell bent on repeating every war ever faught. And all this arguing and bickering is going to do what?
It isn't answering the original questions posted by Master Na, and it sure as hell won't persuade anyone to change their minds, especially the government who is in charge of the whole shebang and could care less what anyone else thinks.

Now, Master Na....there are really small protest movements in this area. More like politically driven petitions and ad campaigns. Nothing like in the 60's. Then again, we are really sheltered here as to what the media is allowed to report about the war. For instance, there is not a continuing death toll type thing announced or anything like that. Most likely because of the sometimes really bad outcomes of the protests in the 60's they are trying to keep passions on the subject publically low and prevent news reports from inciting riots on the home front. Fighting here isn't going to help fighting going on anywhere else.
As far as my feelings on the subject, I think the US government needs to concentrate on the home front issues that rip our counrty to shreds on a daily basis and stop spreading our attentions and money so widely. Since that is not going to happen I only wish for it to be over quickly and for the guys and gals to return quickly and safely.

[ 14 June 2002, 09:01: Message edited by: Pele ]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Point Noted.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


master sodiummember
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada


Posted:
ok, I've been off this site for a couple days. damn this thread grew.

ok, first off,I'd like to thank everyone who felt they should defent my "point".

now raymond, the reason I said something about the marines, is because you seemed to insult the navy "go to a marine recruiter and he/she will tell you a thing or two about the navy". my father served 22 years in the navy, did time in the gulf war and vietnam, and I respect him immensly. by saying something about what supported me and my family for all those years, it was like you were attaking my heritage. now that doesn't mean I want to join the navy, but I believe you should have some respect for the people that serve alongside you in the armed services, rather then imply that they may be inferior. every branch serves its own unique purpose. and doesn't the navy that takes the marines where they need to go overseas?

I sure hope to god this doesn't start more controversy

master sodium

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.


Bender_the_OffenderGOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Drea, freedom of expression should be excercised by all, even by those whose agendas are construed as hateful as the 'One Nation' sideshow party. To be sure, their exploitation of free speech *is* harmful, but to deny them the platform is inifinitely worse.
Her populist migrant scapegoating agenda exploits my demographic particularly. many people of my descent harbour some very 'hands on' ideas about her. though understandable, we all have to realise that in the long term, we all have to live together, racists, migrants, midgets - for what is the alternative to co-existence??
My faith in Australian way of life is borne of a lifetime of great mates, a faith that deprived the One Nation sideshow any hope of fazing me. I laughed at her inauguration speech ('... that Australia is in danger of being swamped by asians')
My policy for her circus has always been:
"They are free to express.
I am free to ignore them and bugger off down the road for a pint."

Ghandi taught us that
"Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes."
..and that..
"Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress."
Even those hatemongers are our brothers and sisters.. really! so to deprive the misguided their soapbox is for *us* to become the villains. Ghandi lesson was that a compassionate heart allowed the clearest vision.
Besides, you're too nice a person to

To have our own views countered obscures the value of the engagement itself: I am honestly grateful to you, Ray, for your honesty - it's never too easy to put ya thoughts up publicly. Obviously we don't agree, but it's the open ideological engagement that's worth far more than say a polite sterile discussion. People like you force others to think outside the square they live in - and i don't think that your (many) contributions to HoP are recognised on that level. Others may feel offended by your delivery, but I think that delivery is secondary to message - plus my name sorta implies it's harder to offend me .

It's a glowing tribute to this forum that participants bearing such differing opinions can share them - and more importantly learn from the encounter at farpoint. Then it is a noble Enterprise, not just another forum. May we all benefit from the gift of openmindedness.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
Go Bender!!

And if it wasn't mentioned earlier, kudos to arsn and bender for their moderation attempts!

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Well shiat Mater Na, I understand a bit more on why you got so angry, I would say that if you had mentined that your father was in the Navy, I am sure none of this would have happend but you wouldnt believe me now so why bother.

The way your post sounded to me was that you were disgusted that the Navy would send you anything let alone a phamplet with "NUKE" written in big bold letters.

I know alot of Navy guys and they are allright we tease eachother, He's a squid, I'm a tree/Jar Head/POG and half a dozen other names.

I also told you how it is, though deep down we like the squids you wont find many Marines saying that in public. The recruiter would have told you a thing or two that was no joke (it wasnt ment to be rude when I said it but ohh well thats life cant change the past can we?).

I just wanted to give you an option, but things got way out of hand, sorry.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


master sodiummember
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada


Posted:
I dont hold it against you raymond. I think everyone else got more offended than I did. and like they said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, including yourself. at first I was slightly mad, and later that night I calmed down and realized I should've mentioned that my father was navy in the post, because I remembered that they did go back and forth alot, which probably would've just ended up with some good natured navy/marine ribbing rather then what it did. also I thought by putting "I know they cant all be bad" would make it less offensive, because most of my experience with marines was during the enlistment process (where I was going army, and of course every marine will tell you marines are best) which probably isn't a good representation of what marines are like.

hope there's no residual hard feelings. and keep doing what you're doing, because it does make me feel good to know someone is protecting my friends, family, and alot of good people whom I dont even know.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Well let me tell you something about the Army...

Just kidding one of my best friends is a Tank Platoon Commander, and my MOS school was at Aberdine Proving Grounds, an Army base, so I know alot of you soldiers, yes I could make fun of you believe me I have dont that alot in the 2 1/2 months I was on APG but ehh I'll PM ya if I really feel the need.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


master sodiummember
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada


Posted:
actually I never went through with becoming a grunt. my recruiter screwed me on various occasions, so I had him work his ass off until shipping out, when I didn't show up. kinda mean, but he deserved it. I spent three days in meps on nonconsecutive occasions waiting for 14 hours, doing nothing, because he screwed up.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
*Laughs*

Personally I think MEPS is worse than boot camp hahah

You did the right thing though, Ohh my I aint laughed so hard in days hehe

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


Availablemember
93 posts
Location: ringwood,nj usa


Posted:
this one time at boot camp.....

Better to Burn out than Fade out, Baby!


tricksenBRONZE Member
member
29 posts
Location: lake district,england


Posted:
to tackle the drug problem.is not to try guns and law enforcement as that has proven not to work.and i personally don't want to live in a police state(or more of a police state)where i can be shot for speeding.
the key to this problem is education,kids are not going to stop taking drugs it ingrained in our culture and to not wake up to this fact is ignorance and killing oue youth.so educate kids at a young age about drugs thier affects,how to take safely etc.if you talk to oue geneation with the all drugs kill belief,they laugh at you and for good reason as they know more about them.ignorance is bliss but we need to open our eyes.as for the drug problems caused in coloumbia and the opium problem,it education again!if people know where the drugs are coming from and the blood that is split for that drug,the refugees that are forced out of their homes because of drugs,kids that are born with a drug habit thier parents tolarance level is so high,.people might stop.
i personally think it is unbelievable that people in power try to goven what people CHOOSE to do to themsleves.

***********************************to find your mind you have to lose it first!!


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
Did haveing sex ed classes reduce teen pregnancy?

No, so based on that I doubt that drug ed classes will reduce drug use amongst kids.

How ever, how many remember the American guy who got cained in Singapore (I think singapore)?

Well the crime rate in Singapore is unbelieveably low in comparison to the US, if there were punishments like that, do you think that people would get the point not to break the law?

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
yup. at least most of them.

know what else?

I would never want to live in a place like that. I think the punishment shoudl fit the crime.

I think we haev different views on teh severity of the crime itself. It seems to me you equate it with murder. feel free to correct me, but that's what i'm seeing, you equate drugs with murder, even if no murder has taken place.

I think the beauty of america is that it's not an abusive police state. or at least, it has strong limits on how much of one it is, i knwo some international people feel it's little better than stalinist russia, and some local people too. But, there are good things about it, and one of them is that it doens't have laws like singapore. (at least as long as you are relativly a majority or outspoken)

However, i still think that the death penalty is barbaric in all circumstances. personal opinion, but that's what it is. If people can get teh death penalty for possesing or selling drugs even in small quanities (I know you can get it for large quanities) well, then i'm putting all my energy into moving to another country ASAP!

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


DarkFairyQueenmember
557 posts
Location: The Underworld


Posted:
Rockstar, If ya read this, I totally agree. I was just being argumentative. Lettin one of me run free for a bit
You know I luv ya

Az abouve, So below...


Newbornmember
55 posts
Location: UK


Posted:
Why should ppl who take drugs be re-habilitated.
I'm a recreational drug taker; it doesnt rule my life; i have a job/pay my taxes i don;t see why i should be classed in the same group as someone who robs old ladies for their next hit?!?!
Drugs in moderation like most things are ok its when drugs take over ones life and they become an addict and depend on the drug thats bad.
Though i do think that drug makers who cut drugs with rat poison/brick powder do deserve to get shot! And rapists should have their dicks cut off but their should be a a machine which can read a brain and get what really happened!
I know my post is a bit off time but the thread grew loads so well ehh!

Raymund Phule = got a real bad attitude problem sort it out!

[ 17 June 2002, 10:06: Message edited by: Newborn ]

Beamers Hurt but double Beamers r u insane???Well actually...yes i am!


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
quote:
Originally posted by Newborn:
Raymund Phule = got a real bad attitude problem sort it out!
*Laughs*
I dont have an attitude problem every one else just has a problem with my attitude!

Kyrian, dont move to Singapore hehe. Well fortunatly for you and those who share your feelings, we dont live in a place like that. *shrugs* always next election year.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


master sodiummember
536 posts
Location: carson city, nevada


Posted:
Originally posted by Newborn:
Raymund Phule = got a real bad attitude problem sort it out!

I dont see why people are giving ray shit for this. to me he's starting alot of interesting conversation. he does make valid points, although I dont agree with most.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.


Raymund Phule (Fireproof)Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California


Posted:
*whispers to Master Na*

Sometimes it is just as fun to get shit as to give it!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
lol ray nice to see you being happy !

in real life i get along very well with all sorts, so i bet i shoudl extend taht more to teh internet eh?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Ray is taking the brunt so the rest do not have to ;-)
Irinically on this one I agree with Ray, for the most part that is. In the middle east there is "chop-chop square" where the punishments do fit the crime..you steal, you get your hand cut off. Is that better Kyrian? I would rather be cained.
I think punichments are too laxed and think the justice system is too slow in trying to be "politically correct". I think that the idea of a "government created by the people for the people", while excellent in theory, never actually took place. As a whole humans are too competitive and power hungry to let that happen. TO the point where the peace and equal rights activists feel the need to battle the government on my behalf. Let's see....
What is being decided for me by the government:
Whether or not I should do drugs.
Whether or not I have the right to what I ingest.
Whether or not I have the right to an abortion.
Whether or not I have the right to decide how to raise, punish and educate my child.
Whether or not I have the right to take my own life.
Whether or not I have the right to display my body as I choose in my own home, without the shades drawn.
Whether or not I should be able to scream "F&ck the world" from a rooftop.
Whether or not I have the right to worship whatever gods I want to.

These things do not impede on anyone else, and yet I have political parties fighting for my right to do any of this.

Civil liberties? Nope.
Freedom of Speech? Nope.
Welcome not only to america but to the world today.
We have new spins on language. We have new social rules. We have more powerful everything it seems, and yet we are still answering to the lord of the land, to the cardinal, to the judge, to the alpha male....at it's core nothing has really changed in the past few thousand years. Sodham and Gamorrah (sp??) have nothing on modern civilization.
In the end, it is opinions I think, and I know I still have to follow the rules or else....but I thoroughly enjoy the right to agree to disagree!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
steal- hand chopped off? sure. i'm good with that. if they are guilty of course. and i think that's where teh question lies. to what extent do you go to-
do you hurt or kill innocents?
or do you let teh guilty free?
or do we want big brother watching us all teh time, so that they know?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
The percentage of innocents that get victimized by the criminal system is fractional (according to my law professors). With that being the case, I would rather have a few innocents for the sake of the greater good than let more guilty go free.
Big Brother watching is already happening and it is uncomfortable to know that the sex I had in the elevator yesterday could be on the evening news tonite, you know?
I think one way or another people deserve what they get. Karmically or legally.
Ewwww...punishments for adultery in the eye for an eye policed state? Can you say Eunich? Bleh!
I think I was an executioner in a past life (truly) because I think we should bring back public humiliation, flogging and the rack. Beats having my taxes go to jail time. I also think things like Scarlett letters aren't bad either. Then at least the prolonged justice system would be worthwhile.

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


KyrianDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England


Posted:
well, that's all adn good if

we can have some different societies with different ideas behind them. and good ways to get between them. know what i mean? so that if someone doesn't belive in monogamy, then they cna live with all sorts of otehr people who don't, and no one gets hurt. or if peopel are offended by S&M, they can live where it isn't. etc. etc. etc.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


PeleBRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA


Posted:
Reminds me of those post nuclear war movies where the survivors break down into clans and circles and then they fight against each other.
The cultural seperation has exsisted in history and the lines were still breeched.
Things are the way they are, and all our "if wishes" won't change them.
It just sucks.
I live here, I deal with it by avoiding the law....

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


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