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laZy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member
Location: Somerset...... England

Total posts: 94
Posted:So this is about buzz saw hyperloops, yes i'm sorry. but there are so many damn posts about them that I couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

Right so I can do them but I have a little question. When I start the hyperloop I find that if I do more than one full rotation before going into the buzzsaw hyperloop I find that is comes out in a horrible mess the other side one that cannot simply be unwound. To try and make things a little clearer I have put it into a formula... bare with me
Starting my hyBuzzsaws on the left
R=right C=centre L=left.
The numbers are the ammount of full rotations before moving on to the next stage.

This is my normal HyperloopBuzzsaw

L1 C2 R1

But when I do an extra rotation on the outsides so....

L2 C2 R2

it turns out in a mess that cannot be fixed without stopping.

so I have come up with two conclusions 1...

L2 C4 R2

or.....

L2 C2 R4 C2 L2

Understanding? So you do the normal HB with two rotations on the outside then go back again hopefully fixing the weird knot that forms..

These last two are purely theoretical as I can't actually get to some poi at the mo...

any thoughts..

laZy


as laZy as .....

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:you mean you are trying to go into the hyperloop part from a kinda 5 bt weavy kinda position.. its possible. although when i do them its a little icky.. you just need to unravel your arms as you enter the tangle. and you come out of it normally.

i might have got the wrong end of the stick though...


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok... let em put it like this... and this IS on a bunch of the other threads.. so I'm not really sure why you said you couldn't find help...


first we do away with words like hyperloop... and talk directly of the outer twisting
Code:
L r
\ /
*
/ \
R l


which you then take into the center part
Code:
L r
\ /
*
/ \
l R


now.. contrary to what others will tell you... you can do L2 C2 R2.. the trick is to remember how these things formed, how they work, and what string/chaintype you are using...

see you can only do L2C2R2 with strings that give... boot laces are a bit harder and ball chain is damn near unforgiving... they don't bend well so they tend to make the extra 'L' beats stick out more... by that take a look at diagram one.. if you keep twisti g you will see a point at the asterix which extends like this:
Code:
L r
\ /
**
/ \
R l


and then again like this:
Code:
L r
\ /
***
/ \
R l


you see where this is going..

now you have to understand that normally your 1 beat rotation forms a knot when it gets in the center... basically if you lay more airwrap like then buzzsaw like you'll see the over under pull part of tying the shoes.. that's a knot.. well when you twist up too much you can't make a knot like that.. because you hasve this stump of coiled tight string ( the '***' part) which with somechain and rope types doesn't want to give that much and becomes a hazard to your spinning.. however, if you do L2 C4 R2, it gives you some extra time to fix the spin.. because basically you just need that stump to spin one rotation around justlike the poi do.. now what's hard is that you have no control of the poi themselves.. only the hand to knot parts.. so you have to make sure that while the poi spin -YOU- make sure that the stump doesn't hit the string.. if it does its going to a) take more rotations to get it right, or b) result in a more complex tanlge as one strings begins tangling around the other after the stump... (which is the starting of a second nexus.. I talked about this before on threads when I said you can have a twist and a knot or a tanlge and knot or multiple iknots and what not.. ) this is can be salvaged and undone as long as your poi keep spinning.. but the key is just not to let it happen.. buit again that's not always possible with all types of string/chain.. so basically you have one of the ways described thusly.. which would be L2 C2,4,6, whatever R2...

the alternative is too remove the extra beat inside.. this is harder to explain.. but if you look at diagram 2 you see 4 axi... poi to * x2 and handle to * x2... now the poi to * to poi will make like a solid axis and your hnadle * handle needs to form a solid axis.. now you have to think like a gyarascope.. this is really hard to explain but you have to use the axis between your hands and and make counter rotations... now a counter rotation is when you manipulate the axis so that the poi spin in the buzzsaw part without really spinning in the buzzsaw.. by manipulating the axis you can get it to spin in the middle, but the rotations miss certain axi and begin to untwist in the center.. its kinda like an isolation.. and is TRES easy on simple basic knots and tangles but pains everywhere else..

it basically mounts to doing L2 C2 R1 CS R1... keep inmind I'm going by your notation with respect to the tanlge.. without ever actually having to move R but rather keeping the middle 2-5 beats depending on how your untangle in the center goes.. I don't really suggest this method.. but it works..

other alternatives include getting off the even beats.. using odd beats in various places will also alter your knot significatntly..

also remember that I have NEVER gotten a L->C (or R)->L and end...
when it gets back to the L its starts RE-twisting.. which goes back to looking at diagrams 1 and 3 and realizing the onyl way to undo the twisting up is to do the untwisting.. think of a thru-wrap.. how it wraps but on the other side it unwrapsitself.. same effect.. in fact remember that tiwsts and tangles for the most part are identical to their respective moves.. (thruwraps and buzzsaw weave respectively) the onyl differences is if you take these moves and pull your amrs apart...

for example a thruwrap at the wristresults in the string wrapping around the wrist a number of rotations and then unwrappin gthe other side.. pull your hands apart and that moves the point down further to the string.. same thing...

a buzzsawweave (nonisolated version) goes your wrists tanlge around each other in the exact same manner in which a tangled buzzsaw works..

I know that doesn't help with your knot problems.. but I took care of that at the top and figured I'd tack on the rest so that anyone new to tangles should be able to follow as well.. hope it helps..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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laZy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member
Location: Somerset...... England

Total posts: 94
Posted:That is quite possibly the best explaination that I have read. Thankyou very much you have helped no end.



laZy

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