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Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:Normal Thru Wrap: e.g. A wrist-wrapped 7 Beat. Left hand Poi wraps around the Right wrist and the RH Poi is changing sides first

"Passive" Thru Wrap: Wrap the RH Poi arund the left wrist and let it change side first.
Strange feeling in the beginning but its possible to master ubbrollsmile

anybody with me ??

cheers

andy


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:are you talking about thru wrapping the other way? if so I know what you mean - you need to be able to do this if you want to do all the paralell thru wraps.

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:"The other way" ? Dunno
But it is not really "passive" when doing parallel thru wraps.
If its parallel Both Poi change sides at the same time - I am talking about the wrapped Poi changing sides in a splittime first (leading).

Does this help ?!?



To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I'm with you I do both but I find easier to land with long poi in wall plane using biceps front and back, not in weaves. Been meaning to start playing with thighs soon and you can also get some beautifull neck wraps mid going on from these while in follow time. cool

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:How do you use the Biceps for those? It is very difficult imo. At least much more difficult than the wrist version described before. Can you explain how you do it ?

thx


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:i've been doing something similar... i think

by passive i'm thinking you mean you're not forcing the momentum so much, which allows the poi to continue with independent timings despite wrapping off the same body part. Is that right?

when i've been doing it, i've been doing something very similar to DSS, wrapping both onto my outstretched bicep and forearm in front, my arm folded with my hand next to my chest, then turning the bicep behind me.

The timing is helped by one of them wrapping further down the poi than the other one.

You'd have thought i'd wrap one closer the the elbow and one closer to the shoulder, but they both wrap at the same place on my arm.

You can do quarter time ones too, which actually make the timing a bit easier, and if you isolate them as you come out of it you get a lovely pattern which spirals out into a cross shape. Its a really cool mix of curved stuff flowing into geometric shapes.
ubblove


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:Hmmmmm - quite difficult to describe. I think we are still not talking about the same thing.

Try this one out to get this "passive" feeling:
3bt Weave forwards.
Poi change from left to right with the left hand leading.
Normal weave motion until the right hand Poi should change to the left side - instead keep it on the right side; it should wrap around the left wrist.
Keep the left hand Poi rotating on the right side too.
Now with the right hand Poi (wrapped around the left wrist) change to the left side first.
Unwrap on the left side.
All together: RH Poi 2 rotations on the right side. LH Poi 3 rotations on the right side.

better ?!? rolleyes


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:just did it with some hypothetical poi... ubbangel

well its certainly not the same thing:
if i understand correctly, we're talking about the same thing, but you're going into it from weave in wheel plane and wrapping on a wrist and i'm going from 2 beat in wallplane and wrapping on elbow\forearm.

the thing thats the same is the preservation of split time in a thru wrap...

or am i still missing the point of what you mean by "passive"? confused2


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:What I think you're calling active is where the body part being wrapped moves across while being wrapped. Hence it kinda pulls on the poi wrapping as it moves across, whereas a passive on is already wrapped when it transitions to the other side and hence the strain (caused by transitioning) is on the poi that isn't wrapped/wrapping.

What I was thinking of is..

Anti-clock wall plane
Normal thru-wrap (or active) right poi on left arm (while it sticks out in front of you). As right poi reached 12 transition left arm 180 degrees. You feel the pull on your left arm as it moves.

Now in same movement (gives you slightly more time) arm straight out behind you wrap right poi on left arm while it's perpendicular behind you. At right poi reached 12 clock and move left arm 180 degrees in front of you right poi leading. There's no pull on the arm (is this what you call passive) as it's already wrapped round it as you move it to the front.

Is that not the same thing? confused

I didn't think of bending the arm though... that's interesting monkey business... cool


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:Quote:
active is where the body part being wrapped moves across while being wrapped. Hence it kinda pulls on the poi wrapping as it moves across, whereas a passive on is already wrapped when it transitions to the other side and hence the strain (caused by transitioning) is on the poi that isn't wrapped/wrapping.


Nice Definition !


About your examples: If you wrap the right Poi around the left arm from behind to front (left to right in a weave) you only get "half" a wrap. (Would be a deferred 5 beat)
IMO the 7 beat works nicer, but I think we talk about the same thing ubbrollsmile

PS: What about your Thailand holiday btw ??


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:It would yea and I've let it stay back there for additional circles....


I'm defo gunna be in Thailand but I reckon it'll be after the EJC (August) possibly later, depending on whether I hang round europe a little longer....you'll be the first to know when I know anywho... smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yeah... if you're doin' what I think you're doin'... you're just turning the "other" way as Josh said. I remember I had a brain bubble with Skunk about that and it took me far too long to comprehend the difference.

You can also wrap a full circle PLUS whatever you're currently wrapping... but you need long chains. smile

Those moves go into the "More fun to do than to watch" category. I'm not sure that an audience would be able to see what it is that you're doing... and especially not be able to notice a difference between active or passive.

But they're sure fun to do. biggrin


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:Quote:
"More fun to do than to watch" category


- Is there any other category ???? biggrin


Its slightly off topic but quite important: The audience will never actually see the differences in your spinning.
But the way you move and transition (DaFlow in general) is important. Example TTN: Itself not very different from a normal Butterfly but it opens up many different variations. Same is true for thru wraps. "Passive" and "Active" may not look very different in the beginning, but the possibilities for flowing are pretty different weavesmiley and this will be recognised by the audience. . . Hopefully wink . . .


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Indeed. Many highly technical moves do offer some subtle differences to the untrained eye which can alter flow and style. It certainly falls under the "case for" the 5 beat weave and such.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:yup. i know precisely what your on about. have been working at wrap either hand with forward and reverse weave, and also doing it with either hand wrap turning between for/rev weave.
i was wondering the other day what to call it. weavesmiley


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.


eeek
member
Location: Cottbus
Member Since: 9th Nov 2003
Total posts: 38
Posted:hi andy!

once again it is awesome how you make out the differences between the moves...

i think both versions are very possible and not too hard to do.

but one question: do you make any difference which poi leads to the other side?
the wrapped or the unwrapped?
i think it is a little bit harder to lead with the wrapped poi to the other side, although it is just a timing thing. with this one it only works with odd numbers of beats (1,3,5?).

and if you try to lead with the wrapped poi to the otherside in the onehanded weave it gets really hard. i only managed to do it for a very few times and it feels a little bit strange.

ps: say hello to juldy's top ^^



Analemma
Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA
Member Since: 22nd May 2003
Total posts: 384
Posted:
Unwrapped Poi Leading: Active Thru-Wrap
Wrapped Poi Leading: Passive Thru-Wrap
Possible with right and left - forwards and backwards ...... etc

Why Odd numbered ? Everything is Possible !!

Yes, one-handed feels strange first - but once you got those solid two handed ones are Kinderkacke !

cheers and greetings back !


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .



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