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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:right. i dont understand this so describing what happens will be hard.

but id like to understand...

what happens is i go to do a buzzsaw hyperloop (going forewards, transitioning from right to left, havnt worked it out in any other directions yet)... then what happens is i kind of scoop underneath the tangle with my right arm... its kind of like a pushing down action, and you kind of pull youre left arm towards you, and the poi come untangled (if im lucky) and im doing a backwards butterfly... which seems odd, as at no point have the poi appeared to stall... confused

id like to know whats going on here...

ill probably have to go away and play more..


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:hmm, hard to tell without a better description of your scoop.

the planes change from buzzsaw (wheel) to butterfly (wall)?

i sometimes use a simple 1 beat tangle to change planes from wallplane same direction to wheel plane opposite direction, and back again.

like so:

wallplane both poi spinning anticlockwise

push planes out 45 degrees, so the planes of the poi are at right angles to each other.
tangle, move tangle inside arms (like an ordinary "airwrap")

the poi are now untangling pointed toward me, with their planes still at right angles.
From here i'd normally correct back into both poi anticlockwise wallplane
BUT instead it's just as natural (as far as plane adjustment is concerned) to correct the other way and come out into wheel plane - left poi spinning backwards, right poi forwards.

and it works the other way too (wheel to wall) smile

is sounds like your thingy is doing a similar thing to that... or am i tree-barking incorrectly? confused


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:i did wonder if it was something like that, as ive just discovered how to do what you describe, but they dont need the scoop...

the scoop is kind of like an isolationy kind of movement but the wrong way.

i kind of rotate my hand aroud the tangle untill my arm is straight and then it keeps on going around and i end up in a butterfly.

sorry i cant make this make sense


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Oli, this makes perfect sense when you consider the benefits of Isolated Cone Geometry. Ha ha.



I've noticed similar things when doing a butterfly tangle whilst turning round, where both poi exit in time in the the same direction ??? Very odd.



There are lots of variations on this stuff, so i'm dredging up this old thread smile



As for Isolated Cone Theory: The Tip of the cone is at the centre of the tangle, your hands circumscribe the base of the cone. In effect the poi curve through Wall, Wheel and Horizontal planes whilst travelling around the side of the cones. So during a tangle you can exit on any plane you choose, in any direction.



This came about during BrJC when someone mentioned to me that during a tangle the poi pass from regular 3-D (x, y, z) geometry into Radian (r, theta, phi) geometry.



PING



m



I'll collect my anorak on my way out wink


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:ubblol

ahem. id forgotton about these cant get what ever the hell i was on about back then to work though umm. i can get butterfly ones to turn into same direction ones quite nicely.

and i dont think the tip of the cone has to be the centre of the tangle either... the centre of the tangle can be moving around the cone, with the tip of the cone at one hand and the other hand circumscribing the base.

pong rolleyes

biggrin


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Touche,

You just made something click.

I propose that to power the tangle you must move the center of the tangle (nexus???) around the surface of the cone.

I'm certain that pulling your arms apart powers the tangle and i think it does it by moving the center out towards the leading poi.

Hmm


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:yep id been thinking that was how powering tangles worked too. except a perfectly isolated one... the centre of the tangle would stay still, but i think it would still be powered..

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete

[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:ouch

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:I've been filming myself spinning again, watching tangles in slo mo. Never really understood tangles or entered into conversation about them but i've been noticing a few things recently.

I propose that you cannot keep a perfectly simetrical tangle going. i.e poi directly opposite each other and the tangle directly in the middle. I think that would keep it too balanced and make it stop.

The leading poi seems to work best if you keep it a fraction shorter than the trailing poi. Exactly the same method I use for meteor.

The trailing poi seems to work best when it is slightly closer to the leading poi. I mean if you freeze a video clip and draw a line from the leading poi to cut the circle in 2. The second poi will be in the half of the circle behind the first poi not in the half a circle ahead of the other poi.

Right that makes no sense, i need a diagram frown

I miss |s|

frown


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Kit


veteran
Location: middle of Troon

Total posts: 1269
Posted:hugs oli cos is confused and doesn't know what else to do!

random murbles

BELTANE FIRE FESTIVAL. 30th april ~ Calton hill - Edinburgh
SAMHUINN FESTIVAL. 31st October ~ Royal Mile - Edinburgh

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TheWibbler
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

old hand
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 920
Posted:Just to explain, Isolated Cone Theory came about in a erm....'drunken' mess and made perfect sense at the time, but talking about it is clearing things up in me head.

If you isolate 1 poi in a horizontal plane then you get an isolated cone. Or rather a pair of cones with the tips touching.

This also happens during a tangle except the other poi replaces the gravity force so you can make an isolated cone in a verticle plane.

It's all based around the idea that you don't have to spin circles, you can spin any 'conic section'; circle, elipse, parabola and so on.

For example when you do a stall the path of the poi follows a parabola.

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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Glåss
PLATINUM Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:yo Matt,
Your theory is incomplete, But elements of it seem like you are making good progress,
so keep going with it and good luck.

Conic sections - yes very big in poi
circle ellipse parabola Hyperbola
http://www.andrews.edu/~calkins/math/webtexts/numb19.htm
br>But not as you described them in tangles - thats all KooKoo
and yes about not powering symmetrical tangles using normal methods

and as for co-ordinate systems poi always better to think in polar co-ordinates (spherical occasionally, but more commonly cylindrical) never in cartesian co-ordinates (x,y,z)


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:Written by: PoiPoiPoi

If you isolate 1 poi in a horizontal plane then you get an isolated cone. Or rather a pair of cones with the tips touching.

This also happens during a tangle except the other poi replaces the gravity force so you can make an isolated cone in a verticle plane.





the cone is a bit different when they are tangled though? because each poi has a 'kink' in it. kinky cone theory confused

and it is also possible to have the tangle going around the base of the cone (or two cones with there bases together) and your hands do smaller circles around the surface of the cone nearer the tip, the actual tips of the cone being outside your arms. i think this is how i power tangles.

and kit hug rolleyes


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

Delete