Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Multi Beat Airwraps
Login/Join to Participate110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Hello
Multi beat airwraps...
It is said they are known to certain persons on this board
but they choose to remain silent about their forbidden knowledge, so as to avoid The Tanglish Inquisition!
so this is my attempt to lure them into the cold light of day, whereupon we shall tortur... uh... ask them nicely to impart their knowledge
OK, you know airwraps, yeah?
(or static airwraps, as some would have it
)
they generally tangle on the outside then switch to the inside and untangle
(or go from inside to outside, but lets ignore them for now)
Now to increase the number of beats you can keep switching from inside to outside before the poi reach the point of untangling.
It is hard
but possible 
and you'll probably do lots of them by accident while you're trying to learn how to airwrap...
i've found that i can get a 4 beat airwrap happening most easily by doing the following:
(description assumes anticlockwise spinning. Transpose lefts for rights and vice versa for clockwise spinning )
The poi meet at an outward angle so that the 'tangle' is nearer the head of the left hand poi, and nearer the handle of the right hand poi.
The poi spin 180° on the outside as normal for your basic airwrap, and both come to the inside.
As the poi are just coming round to untangle, move your hands slightly back towards your body, so that the poi go into the outside position again.
Try to 'hook' the left poi with the right poi head that is rising up inside your arms and moving away from you.
The poi should re-tangle in the middle of both poi at the exact point in time that the old tangle comes apart, and we're back at the beginning of an airwrap tangle.
Complete normally and untangle for a 4 beat (?) airwrap
Or try for another other couple of beats ad infinitum
i find that these look really lovely when done slow and clean, and the tangle slowly moves down the length of the poi from right to left (getting harder and harder to retangle as it goes).
This is far more noticable with thick, non-stretchy socks. With thinner or stretchier material, theres a tendency for the knot to stay much more in one place. i don't know why...
Now come on, you hardcore tanglehedz, throw the monkey a banana and tell me some moooooore...
cos i'm really rubbish at working out what knots should do. i seem to recall that the last time i tried to discuss tangles properly with Coleman we ended up moving socks around on a concrete floor for ten minutes before finally deciding that the move we'd just been playing with was, in fact, impossible...
Hello
Multi beat airwraps...
It is said they are known to certain persons on this board
but they choose to remain silent about their forbidden knowledge, so as to avoid The Tanglish Inquisition!
so this is my attempt to lure them into the cold light of day, whereupon we shall tortur... uh... ask them nicely to impart their knowledge
OK, you know airwraps, yeah?
(or static airwraps, as some would have it
)they generally tangle on the outside then switch to the inside and untangle
(or go from inside to outside, but lets ignore them for now)
Now to increase the number of beats you can keep switching from inside to outside before the poi reach the point of untangling.
It is hard
but possible and you'll probably do lots of them by accident while you're trying to learn how to airwrap...i've found that i can get a 4 beat airwrap happening most easily by doing the following:
(description assumes anticlockwise spinning. Transpose lefts for rights and vice versa for clockwise spinning
)The poi meet at an outward angle so that the 'tangle' is nearer the head of the left hand poi, and nearer the handle of the right hand poi.
The poi spin 180° on the outside as normal for your basic airwrap, and both come to the inside.
As the poi are just coming round to untangle, move your hands slightly back towards your body, so that the poi go into the outside position again.
Try to 'hook' the left poi with the right poi head that is rising up inside your arms and moving away from you.
The poi should re-tangle in the middle of both poi at the exact point in time that the old tangle comes apart, and we're back at the beginning of an airwrap tangle.
Complete normally and untangle for a 4 beat (?) airwrap
Or try for another other couple of beats ad infinitum
i find that these look really lovely when done slow and clean, and the tangle slowly moves down the length of the poi from right to left (getting harder and harder to retangle as it goes).
This is far more noticable with thick, non-stretchy socks. With thinner or stretchier material, theres a tendency for the knot to stay much more in one place. i don't know why...
Now come on, you hardcore tanglehedz, throw the monkey a banana and tell me some moooooore...
cos i'm really rubbish at working out what knots should do. i seem to recall that the last time i tried to discuss tangles properly with Coleman we ended up moving socks around on a concrete floor for ten minutes before finally deciding that the move we'd just been playing with was, in fact, impossible...
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
yeah, sorry about that.
it normally makes sense when i show it like that but i messed it right up didn't i
that was the night i stumbled into bf hyperloops i believe so not all was lost
i read about arashi's 10bt airwraps earlier this week and it made me wonder what type of poi he uses for this.
as far as i can see, wicks with ballchain is the only setup with enough momentum and little enough friction to allow this.
with *all* the poi i use i reckon i'd run out of momentum before i got over 6-8 beats, unless i start bouncing them (yuk!) or do the thing where you start the airwrap high up the strings and pull out gradually to increase momentum in the tangle...
Non-Https Image Link
Quote:
i seem to recall that the last time i tried to discuss tangles properly with Coleman we ended up moving socks around on a concrete floor for ten minutes before finally deciding that the move we'd just been playing with was, in fact, impossible...
yeah, sorry about that.
it normally makes sense when i show it like that but i messed it right up didn't i
that was the night i stumbled into bf hyperloops i believe so not all was lost
i read about arashi's 10bt airwraps earlier this week and it made me wonder what type of poi he uses for this.
as far as i can see, wicks with ballchain is the only setup with enough momentum and little enough friction to allow this.
with *all* the poi i use i reckon i'd run out of momentum before i got over 6-8 beats, unless i start bouncing them (yuk!
) or do the thing where you start the airwrap high up the strings and pull out gradually to increase momentum in the tangle...Non-Https Image Link
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i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
frick man i'll get back to you when
a.) i figure out what the hell it is i'm doing
b.) i have three hours to type all of it out!
til then go kiss a girl! or at least a baboon butt!
but i think i jumped the gun, the 4+ beat technique i found the other night may be un-invertable. but i am also solidifying my non isolating 4+ which is invertable. somebody put a lollipop in simian's butt to hold him over....
frick man i'll get back to you when
a.) i figure out what the hell it is i'm doing
b.) i have three hours to type all of it out!
til then go kiss a girl! or at least a baboon butt!
but i think i jumped the gun, the 4+ beat technique i found the other night may be un-invertable. but i am also solidifying my non isolating 4+ which is invertable. somebody put a lollipop in simian's butt to hold him over....
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
and i dunno, simian that looks like doubling up a 2 beat to make four. crafty and works but not really a four. there's straight up 4 out there. just go faster and get your hands out of the way!
and i dunno, simian that looks like doubling up a 2 beat to make four. crafty and works but not really a four. there's straight up 4 out there. just go faster and get your hands out of the way!
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
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Posted:
Post deleted by Taniwha07
Post deleted by Taniwha07
GOLD Member
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Post deleted by Taniwha07
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PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Hmm... I always assumed what you described at the end there Tani as a regular old Buzzsaw hyperloop? I'm just getting in to hyperloops but my "standard" one that I usually do is doing a forwards weave in wall plane, tangling and turning 90 degrees in to a buzzsaw. I "hold" it there for a few rotations, sometimes up to 7 or 8, and then turn another 90 degrees and untangle, putting me in to reverse weave.
Hmm... I always assumed what you described at the end there Tani as a regular old Buzzsaw hyperloop? I'm just getting in to hyperloops but my "standard" one that I usually do is doing a forwards weave in wall plane, tangling and turning 90 degrees in to a buzzsaw. I "hold" it there for a few rotations, sometimes up to 7 or 8, and then turn another 90 degrees and untangle, putting me in to reverse weave.
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Posted:
Post deleted by Taniwha07
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PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I really haven't seen too many videos with clear hyperloops. Spinning in paris 1/2 had two very simple weave airwraps by Glass, Reclaim The Beach had a few by Dom, and a bunch of Dantana's videos had them. Not enough daytime poi hyperloops I'm afraid, someone must do a hyperloopage video.
*Looks hopingly at Glass, Dom, PoiX3, Nx, Rev, and all you other crazy hyperloop nerds*
I really haven't seen too many videos with clear hyperloops. Spinning in paris 1/2 had two very simple weave airwraps by Glass, Reclaim The Beach had a few by Dom, and a bunch of Dantana's videos had them. Not enough daytime poi hyperloops I'm afraid, someone must do a hyperloopage video.
*Looks hopingly at Glass, Dom, PoiX3, Nx, Rev, and all you other crazy hyperloop nerds*
BRONZE Member
Uncle Chop Chop
213 posts
Location: Time is the Fire in which we burn, United Kingdom
Uncle Chop Chop
213 posts
Location: Time is the Fire in which we burn, United Kingdom
Posted:
I've got some on video there pretty easy to do once you do one i cant really explain them so i'll try put a link up real soon. .
an easy way is to cross your arms and go in to an airwrap once they tangle uncross your arms that ends up in 2 beats, or do an airwrap and just b4 they untangle catch the poi again spin them in the direction they just came from so they re-wrap as many times as you want. catch them and then spin em back out, hey presto multi beat airwrap.
sorry bout the poo explination it's too early in the morning to think properly
EDITED_BY: TheSilverShadow (1078910647)
I've got some on video there pretty easy to do once you do one i cant really explain them so i'll try put a link up real soon.
.an easy way is to cross your arms and go in to an airwrap once they tangle uncross your arms that ends up in 2 beats, or do an airwrap and just b4 they untangle catch the poi again spin them in the direction they just came from so they re-wrap as many times as you want. catch them and then spin em back out, hey presto multi beat airwrap.
sorry bout the poo explination it's too early in the morning to think properly
EDITED_BY: TheSilverShadow (1078910647)
"Do you know what the Phantom is??"
--------------
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
hmm much random rambling about to come... sorry
i'm a little confused why Taniwha and Arashi don't dig the outside inside outside style...
erm so it seeems theres talk of about airwraps that have multiple inside beats (buzzsaw style inside both arms)
and probably the using of odd numbers of inside beats to keep the poi tangled?
for SilverShadow giving some other multibeat airwraps interpretations. Wasn't thinking about them in terms of adding direction switches, but thats actually erally cool. Played with a little crossed arm static airwrap stuff yesterday. Felt like a bit of a wigga tho 
and possibly some mention of airwraps that have multiple outside beats (outside both arms, wallplane-ish) then multiple inside beats (inside both arms, wallplane-ish)
Taniwha: i disagree that the "outside inside outside" airwraps are 'smoke & mirrors'. There's no point at which the poi are totally 'untangled'. i thiiiiiink...
and even if there was, who cares? It's not like you can 'cheat' with poi, cos there aren't any rules. You're doing something tricky that looks wierd. Full stop.
a beat is 180degrees of rotation, right? right??? ah, i try to avoid using conventions that just confuse people. Just use a few different ways of describing what your talking about and the message should stick...
plus seems to me that multi beats much more interesting if they're moving about, rather than sitting wiggling your nose as you pull of a 144 beat inner hyperloop
i'm more interested in trying to keep a series of 2 beat movements going at the moment.
and whats your point about saying airwraps are too complicated to talk about? i'm just wanting a little discussion here, not a grand unified theory or nuttin...
um, and i never said tangle near the heads. Although thats not a myth if you have to untangle inside both arms in wallplane, thats just physics. In the case of this one, i say near the head of one, near the handle of the other. Has noone else noticed\liked the way that outside inside outside tangles make the knot move closer to the handle of one poi, and closer to the head of the other? Not sure if turning it round would make the tangle travel the other way. My clockwise airwraps suck big time. You probably need fairly thick material socks to notice the travelling knot. Ballchain and thin socks and stretchy socks all tend to have very tight tangles, whereas thicker material forms much larger more visible 'nexuseseses'
hmm much random rambling about to come... sorry
i'm a little confused why Taniwha and Arashi don't dig the outside inside outside style...
erm so it seeems theres talk of about airwraps that have multiple inside beats (buzzsaw style inside both arms)
and probably the using of odd numbers of inside beats to keep the poi tangled?
for SilverShadow giving some other multibeat airwraps interpretations. Wasn't thinking about them in terms of adding direction switches, but thats actually erally cool. Played with a little crossed arm static airwrap stuff yesterday. Felt like a bit of a wigga tho and possibly some mention of airwraps that have multiple outside beats (outside both arms, wallplane-ish) then multiple inside beats (inside both arms, wallplane-ish)
Taniwha: i disagree that the "outside inside outside" airwraps are 'smoke & mirrors'. There's no point at which the poi are totally 'untangled'. i thiiiiiink...
and even if there was, who cares? It's not like you can 'cheat' with poi, cos there aren't any rules. You're doing something tricky that looks wierd. Full stop.
a beat is 180degrees of rotation, right? right??? ah, i try to avoid using conventions that just confuse people. Just use a few different ways of describing what your talking about and the message should stick...
plus seems to me that multi beats much more interesting if they're moving about, rather than sitting wiggling your nose as you pull of a 144 beat inner hyperloop
i'm more interested in trying to keep a series of 2 beat movements going at the moment.and whats your point about saying airwraps are too complicated to talk about? i'm just wanting a little discussion here, not a grand unified theory or nuttin...
um, and i never said tangle near the heads. Although thats not a myth if you have to untangle inside both arms in wallplane, thats just physics. In the case of this one, i say near the head of one, near the handle of the other. Has noone else noticed\liked the way that outside inside outside tangles make the knot move closer to the handle of one poi, and closer to the head of the other? Not sure if turning it round would make the tangle travel the other way. My clockwise airwraps suck big time. You probably need fairly thick material socks to notice the travelling knot. Ballchain and thin socks and stretchy socks all tend to have very tight tangles, whereas thicker material forms much larger more visible 'nexuseseses'
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
i'll get back to ya on this topic, muuuch more time later tonight.
but most of the btb ones i first posted in the ninja'z thread are multi beat, 4-8... bepending on how long it takes you to get round.
and i agree with t07 ont he two different techniques(the gentle isolation, and the damn fast entry), but disagree that one is better than the other. i use both cause they're different goddamit one is not better than the other....
black and blue part two has a few bits of hyperloopage but its oooold now so i doubt it would be teaching any of you hp-demons anything new, but it'll be up sooner rather than later(, been saying that for a while...)
laters
R
i'll get back to ya on this topic, muuuch more time later tonight.
but most of the btb ones i first posted in the ninja'z thread are multi beat, 4-8... bepending on how long it takes you to get round.
and i agree with t07 ont he two different techniques(the gentle isolation, and the damn fast entry
), but disagree that one is better than the other. i use both cause they're different goddamit one is not better than the other....black and blue part two has a few bits of hyperloopage but its oooold now so i doubt it would be teaching any of you hp-demons anything new, but it'll be up sooner rather than later(
, been saying that for a while...)laters
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
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Posted:
Post deleted by Taniwha07
Post deleted by Taniwha07
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
aaaaaaaaaaah kungfu...
yeah, i was talking about static airwraps, not hyperloops
so i meant 'inside' in a different way to 'inside' in a hyperloop
means both poi are inbetween your hands and your body, in wallplane
and it never switches to the other side of my body (behind me, as i'm in wallplane)
dammit, must work now, not post about tangly things...
aaaaaaaaaaah kungfu...
yeah, i was talking about static airwraps, not hyperloops
so i meant 'inside' in a different way to 'inside' in a hyperloop
means both poi are inbetween your hands and your body, in wallplane
and it never switches to the other side of my body (behind me, as i'm in wallplane)
dammit, must work now, not post about tangly things...
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
ok.. apologizing now for my ignorance of not reading all this before responding..
extended airwraps can go on for as many beats as you keep momentum... because the airwrap operates like the tanlged buzzsaw.. you know how the tanlged buzzsaw goes on forever(momentum pending) well so can airwraps.. see the misconception lies in the idea that an airwrap fuinction liek a hyperloop.. it doesn't it operates like your tanlges buzzaw.. basically it mioves towards the invetered plane does the quick circle and exits.. unlike the hyperlop which moves about the inner and outer planes.. see the inverted plane is what allows the momentum to keep going in the perpetual motion... which is why when you take an extended airwap and move it around you move it around like you would a buzzsaw fountain... because they airwrap is a tangled buzzsaw sideways so that its flat in the wall plane if that makes since..
as long as you can maintain control of the airwrap you can pull and have them spin a stupid amount of rotations... pulling them helps to extend them by shringking the diameter of the circles made by the poi, thus increasing momentum as well as making it easier to control..
anyone follow me on this? or is this another one of those "what the hell is rev talking about?" things
edit: I thought I should clarify
outer plane.. like the outer side plane outer wallplane.. that which is outside of us..
innerplane.. between the arms and the body NOT BETWEEN THE ARMS... do a butterfly in front and bounce it so that it comes up under your arms but in front of your body.. ta da inner plane...
inverted plane.. between the amrs.. i.e where the airwraps ends/or begins dependiong on direction...the airwrap works in the iverted wall plane, while buzzsaws are inverted side planes...
think of it like this.. you can take a weave in the wallplane and go from outer to inner plane and hyperloop it from outewr to inner plane which is different from taking and airwraping which goes from outer to inverted or inverted to outer..
I'll be in hop chat around 8pm est if anyone would like to come and discuss things in realtime.. hehe...
EDITED_BY: Rev (1078948512)
ok.. apologizing now for my ignorance of not reading all this before responding..
extended airwraps can go on for as many beats as you keep momentum... because the airwrap operates like the tanlged buzzsaw.. you know how the tanlged buzzsaw goes on forever(momentum pending) well so can airwraps.. see the misconception lies in the idea that an airwrap fuinction liek a hyperloop.. it doesn't it operates like your tanlges buzzaw.. basically it mioves towards the invetered plane does the quick circle and exits.. unlike the hyperlop which moves about the inner and outer planes.. see the inverted plane is what allows the momentum to keep going in the perpetual motion... which is why when you take an extended airwap and move it around you move it around like you would a buzzsaw fountain... because they airwrap is a tangled buzzsaw sideways so that its flat in the wall plane if that makes since..
as long as you can maintain control of the airwrap you can pull and have them spin a stupid amount of rotations... pulling them helps to extend them by shringking the diameter of the circles made by the poi, thus increasing momentum as well as making it easier to control..
anyone follow me on this? or is this another one of those "what the hell is rev talking about?" things
edit: I thought I should clarify
outer plane.. like the outer side plane outer wallplane.. that which is outside of us..
innerplane.. between the arms and the body NOT BETWEEN THE ARMS... do a butterfly in front and bounce it so that it comes up under your arms but in front of your body.. ta da inner plane...
inverted plane.. between the amrs.. i.e where the airwraps ends/or begins dependiong on direction...the airwrap works in the iverted wall plane, while buzzsaws are inverted side planes...
think of it like this.. you can take a weave in the wallplane and go from outer to inner plane and hyperloop it from outewr to inner plane which is different from taking and airwraping which goes from outer to inverted or inverted to outer..
I'll be in hop chat around 8pm est if anyone would like to come and discuss things in realtime.. hehe...
EDITED_BY: Rev (1078948512)
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
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SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Sometimes people do not starts threads about moves they cannot do. They also start threads about moves they can do and want to share how to.
ps. I can vouch for the monkey.
Quote:
Though if you had really read what i had typed, you would have seen i just described both
Quote:
I was only trying to point you in the right direction, so you can figure it out for yourself...
Sometimes people do not starts threads about moves they cannot do. They also start threads about moves they can do and want to share how to.
ps. I can vouch for the monkey.
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
@ Jon
i am asking for people to tell me stuff i don't know...
but terminology is against me, and also it seems that even the people who are following my definitions as i've meant them are telling me that i don't want to find out about that i want to find out about this instead...
i dunno, maybe i'm reading it wrong.
If i wanted to know about inside beat hyperloops or tangled buzzsaw stuff, i'd have posted in one of the threads about them
@ Joni am asking for people to tell me stuff i don't know...
but terminology is against me, and also it seems that even the people who are following my definitions as i've meant them are telling me that i don't want to find out about that i want to find out about this instead...
i dunno, maybe i'm reading it wrong.
If i wanted to know about inside beat hyperloops or tangled buzzsaw stuff, i'd have posted in one of the threads about them
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
oh me oh my a pained ucof...
i don't think simone needs vouching for he is a suitably vouchsafed monkey anyway
ok.
replies first then back to my original intent...
i get you rev.
but cant think of a better way to describe, so am just going to go off on my own tangent
t07 i think you're being a bit unneccessarily unspecific, esp as airwap definitions are getting pretty solid now, but....*shrug*
simian did you ever look here at the 4bt airwrap discussion? that was my first and most successful way of solidifying something which had previously been an accident: the 4bt wall plane in front of you '3' and '9' common or garden airwrap.
most of my multi beat stuff is moving(dull to stick in the one position, unless it just goes on and onandonandonandonandonandon like 50 beats just because you can...
and heres a few examples:
buzzsaw hyperloop fountains: where you come up and over(carry) in a reverse buzzsaw(approx 6 beats, depending on speed) OR down and carry from a forwards buzzsaw(again about 6 beats)
add the two together... much easier to do in the order shown above, unless you start isolating to keep momentum(on my nonstretchy socks anyway), because gravity kicks in on the way back up again....
when you get half way through your fountain you can choose a direction to go in(body turns) so in theory you could do a 360 turn in 12 beats of this(i thnink the minimum is 8, but thats damn fast...) but my front wall plane ones are sketchy enough that i've not played around with more.
my intent with these is to be able to do with a tangle what a diabolist does with his toy.... whcih means inoutinoutinininoutoutinoutsuicideoutsuicideinout in whatever combination i feel like... give me a year or two
what you(siman) are calling outsideinsideoutside i think you mean the common or garden but for an extra two beats yes? if so then there are variations ad nauseam on this one.
first is to change the pposition of your 'inside' bit(beats 2 and 3..?) so instead of it being in the middle of the square created by your two hands and your two nipples, try putting one hand to the opposite shoulder(works either side) and making the inside happen in and around your arm.(cole might be able to explain this to you in rl, hopefully in less than 10 mins and with more success than the last time he tried sth like this)
or make your inside btl(risky. i've managed this with aerotechs and blind faith, but not with socls and reason!), or bth(ouch)(this one i was going to describe in the ninjaz and btb hyps thread but never got round to, so if any of ytou remember this:
then hopefully now i've fulfiled my promise
second; theres shitloads more turning IOIOIO variations that transfer from an 3and9 to a 6and12 and back that i'll hopefully remember to ppost about in a while, but my fingers are falling off in this cold office and i want to post sth else about bfhyps so i'm off.
hugs all round
R
edit before posting: just read simians reply, and feel you should be asking about both, cause they are soooo interlinked(see my last paragraph) that if you do one and not the other then you's missing out on some the beautiful things that come out of extreme nerdity(that ones for you mr Batchelor )
oh me oh my a pained ucof...
i don't think simone needs vouching for he is a suitably vouchsafed monkey anyway
ok.
replies first then back to my original intent...
i get you rev.
but cant think of a better way to describe, so am just going to go off on my own tangent
t07 i think you're being a bit unneccessarily unspecific, esp as airwap definitions are getting pretty solid now, but....*shrug*
simian did you ever look here at the 4bt airwrap discussion? that was my first and most successful way of solidifying something which had previously been an accident: the 4bt wall plane in front of you '3' and '9' common or garden airwrap.
most of my multi beat stuff is moving(dull to stick in the one position, unless it just goes on and onandonandonandonandonandon like 50 beats just because you can...
and heres a few examples:
buzzsaw hyperloop fountains: where you come up and over(carry) in a reverse buzzsaw(approx 6 beats, depending on speed) OR down and carry from a forwards buzzsaw(again about 6 beats)
add the two together... much easier to do in the order shown above, unless you start isolating to keep momentum(on my nonstretchy socks anyway), because gravity kicks in on the way back up again....
when you get half way through your fountain you can choose a direction to go in(body turns) so in theory you could do a 360 turn in 12 beats of this(i thnink the minimum is 8, but thats damn fast...) but my front wall plane ones are sketchy enough that i've not played around with more.
my intent with these is to be able to do with a tangle what a diabolist does with his toy.... whcih means inoutinoutinininoutoutinoutsuicideoutsuicideinout in whatever combination i feel like... give me a year or two
what you(siman) are calling outsideinsideoutside i think you mean the common or garden but for an extra two beats yes? if so then there are variations ad nauseam on this one.
first is to change the pposition of your 'inside' bit(beats 2 and 3..?) so instead of it being in the middle of the square created by your two hands and your two nipples, try putting one hand to the opposite shoulder(works either side) and making the inside happen in and around your arm.(cole might be able to explain this to you in rl, hopefully in less than 10 mins and with more success than the last time he tried sth like this
)or make your inside btl(risky
. i've managed this with aerotechs and blind faith, but not with socls and reason!), or bth(ouch)(this one i was going to describe in the ninjaz and btb hyps thread but never got round to, so if any of ytou remember this:Quote:
round the head airwraps
again you need to isolate a little here.
two different variations, so i'll put them in personal chronological order
as if you were coming into a reverse tangle buzzsaw on the right..
come into the buzzsaw, then rotate your rightarm round the left side of your head, followed (very) swiftly by the left arm.. so the tangle goes all the way round and comes back out on your right side, then can be carried on (if you've still enough momentum...) or exited as you would a normal tangle buzzsaw.
second one is a bit more tricky.... so i'm going to go away and practise it for an hour or so so i understand it a bit better, and then i'll come back and post it here.
then hopefully now i've fulfiled my promise
second; theres shitloads more turning IOIOIO variations that transfer from an 3and9 to a 6and12 and back that i'll hopefully remember to ppost about in a while, but my fingers are falling off in this cold office and i want to post sth else about bfhyps so i'm off.
hugs all round
R
edit before posting: just read simians reply, and feel you should be asking about both, cause they are soooo interlinked(see my last paragraph) that if you do one and not the other then you's missing out on some the beautiful things that come out of extreme nerdity(
that ones for you mr Batchelor )Holistic Spinner (I hope)
GOLD Member
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
addict
625 posts
Location: Aotearoa (NZ), New Zealand
Posted:
OK sorry... how about i remove all my posts and you cant tell me how it is...
I dont really understand all this jedi mind trick stuff where you pretend not to know something and then say you do, its kinda confusing.
Maybee i just didn't read you post properly... cause from what i read i thought you were asking for ideas and variations and why some thing wasn't happening... if your were seriously unveiling some new ideas, my bad.
OK sorry... how about i remove all my posts and you cant tell me how it is...
I dont really understand all this jedi mind trick stuff where you pretend not to know something and then say you do, its kinda confusing.
Maybee i just didn't read you post properly... cause from what i read i thought you were asking for ideas and variations and why some thing wasn't happening... if your were seriously unveiling some new ideas, my bad.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yo
I really loved your description of sustaining orbital (buzzsaw, but orbital is a better word because it removes the idea of it happening in classic 'buzzsaw' position.) airwrap, and revs comments are tying the diffrent ideas toghether. I havent read blue yet.
Hyperloops gennerally just piss me off, and ill freely admit happy learner status, but hints are somewhat frustrating.
for the monkey, nice work my son.
T
yo
I really loved your description of sustaining orbital (buzzsaw, but orbital is a better word because it removes the idea of it happening in classic 'buzzsaw' position.) airwrap, and revs comments are tying the diffrent ideas toghether. I havent read blue yet.
Hyperloops gennerally just piss me off, and ill freely admit happy learner status, but hints are somewhat frustrating.
for the monkey, nice work my son.T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
and for rob to, imn still not quite getting in out, ill re read at some point.
T
and
for rob to, imn still not quite getting in out, ill re read at some point.T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
member
112 posts
Location: Brighton / Canterbury, United Kingdom
member
112 posts
Location: Brighton / Canterbury, United Kingdom
Posted:
i know how to do them
but putting it into words?????? goodness me no
i know how to do them
but putting it into words?????? goodness me no
ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. . . . . . . . . . . . . ZAP
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
ah, not again man please.
there's 'easily offended' and then there's tani
Quote:
OK sorry... how about i remove all my posts and you cant tell me how it is...
ah, not again man please.
there's 'easily offended' and then there's tani
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
member
94 posts
Location: Somerset...... England
member
94 posts
Location: Somerset...... England
Posted:
This whole lot just went straight over my head but I'm gonna go try anyway.
laZy
This whole lot just went straight over my head but I'm gonna go try anyway.
laZy
as laZy as .....
BRONZE Member
member
94 posts
Location: Somerset...... England
member
94 posts
Location: Somerset...... England
Posted:
Well waddya know 10 mins and i can put theloops into a buzzsaw airwrap thingy and get em out the otherside I think it makes about 4 beats overall, I just gotta try and get em back again. erm..... i'll get back to you when I do (probably not so soon)
My advice for anyone wanting more beats is so spped up your poi but slow down you actual actions. Worked for me.
laZy
Well waddya know 10 mins and i can put theloops into a buzzsaw airwrap thingy and get em out the otherside I think it makes about 4 beats overall, I just gotta try and get em back again. erm..... i'll get back to you when I do (probably not so soon)
My advice for anyone wanting more beats is so spped up your poi but slow down you actual actions. Worked for me.
laZy
as laZy as .....
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
perhaps I missed something mister monkey. (perhaps yor post wasnt' directed at me) BUT
I was telling you exactly what you wanted to know.. and that is multi-beat airwraps... because your basica airwrap is as I described.. and when you understand that then you know that a multi beat airwraps is the same as a normal airwrap.. only its not moved through.. whcihc inevitably leads back to the airwrap discussion.. ebcause if you understand that the airwrap acts like a tanlged buzzsaw, then you realize that by holding the airwrap and then moving it you cn get as many beats(and get them reliably) as you want.. thus getting 6,10,20+ beat airwraps...
by getting the poi to spin a proper airwrap (extended airwrap) as opposed to just spinning throught the tangle (i.e. from outside to inverted or from inverted to outside) like a 'static airwrap' ; you can move any where that you can move a buzzsaw.. because when you extend an airwrap you need one hand futher forward however slight.. this helps accent ithe sideways tanlged buzzsaw commonly called airwrap..
I mean I don' tknow what more you want.. that's how you do everything from a 2 circle to 20+ circle airwrap.. and it can be moved accordingly..
perhaps I missed something mister monkey. (perhaps yor post wasnt' directed at me) BUT
I was telling you exactly what you wanted to know.. and that is multi-beat airwraps... because your basica airwrap is as I described.. and when you understand that then you know that a multi beat airwraps is the same as a normal airwrap.. only its not moved through.. whcihc inevitably leads back to the airwrap discussion.. ebcause if you understand that the airwrap acts like a tanlged buzzsaw, then you realize that by holding the airwrap and then moving it you cn get as many beats(and get them reliably) as you want.. thus getting 6,10,20+ beat airwraps...
by getting the poi to spin a proper airwrap (extended airwrap) as opposed to just spinning throught the tangle (i.e. from outside to inverted or from inverted to outside) like a 'static airwrap' ; you can move any where that you can move a buzzsaw.. because when you extend an airwrap you need one hand futher forward however slight.. this helps accent ithe sideways tanlged buzzsaw commonly called airwrap..
I mean I don' tknow what more you want.. that's how you do everything from a 2 circle to 20+ circle airwrap.. and it can be moved accordingly..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yo.
Rev. I gettit, andi dont think it was directed at you, id like to know more about same side exits, untangling when youve gone 1 over (i.e. the wrong poi exits from the orbital and you end up crossed, and a harder definition of what this in out bussness is. please?
i think the reason the poi seem to climb over each other in airwrap orbital is cos of the angle of the strings, and pulling evens this out.
T
yo.
Rev. I gettit, andi dont think it was directed at you, id like to know more about same side exits, untangling when youve gone 1 over (i.e. the wrong poi exits from the orbital and you end up crossed, and a harder definition of what this in out bussness is. please?
i think the reason the poi seem to climb over each other in airwrap orbital is cos of the angle of the strings, and pulling evens this out.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
grrrr...jesus you guys. i'm gonna bitch now but don't take it too seriously but dammit listen [puts on a french maid outfit to clean all this shite up]. first of all i thiiiiink you need to understand the outside, inverted, and inside definitions, i made those clarifications for a reason, to differentiate btwn all these things. the point being which direction each plane is originating from.at the fingertips
seems like some confusion is still happening not because of calling airwraps in the wall and inside (i guess static) different than the weave(outside to outside) or maxi plus (outside inverted outside) or maxi plus variations (inverted outside) which is all fine, and correct, just renaming stuff and that makes problems for me cause nobody's ever bothered translating what a friggin hyperloop or airwrap is in my terminology and i stilll don't understand and why should i even give a frick cause my definition seems more mathematical and understandable and nobody seems to care that i don't know you just keep eating it up and then renaming it and cutting me out of the loop and prancing about like you own it and your poop just fell right out of the sky and i'm just confused cause now i don't know what you're talking about but i'll stop bitchin? but you gotta come correct on naming beats and i really think you might want to try going back to my definition which goes by number if times heads cross the side of the circle opposite the Crossover Point, in most airwraps this is also the tangle [but on outside inside (static?) it's a little fuzzy cause the crossovers are facing each toher). ask glass what i mean by CP if it isn't obvious.
4 beat airwraps i mean do four circles before moving to another side, no more. not with techniques, that would make a 2 beat, inside for 2, back out. you can't just add the total circles together and call it a 4 or text will dissolve. then there's about 500 addative ways to do a 4. i mean purist 4 beats, one way as i said long ago is to pull the knot away from the knot and plane like i think rev is describing. one way. another as i also said a while ago is to isolate in a minimal back and forth motion to keep the circles going. but i found another way the other night. i'm not going to keep typing right now cause i sort of frustrated with i'm not sure what except you guys need to chill out and stop renaming everything or at least list everybody's definitions esp. the guys' who are trying to help you i'm coming out of end of isolated five beat (because the poi are moving in conical spirals rather than crisp lines), stop your isolated hand motions, airwrap, and cross over the spiral for the basic ouside to outside and yes i was right it is invertable last night i got four on one side and 6 on the other by doing the cross arm airwrap and uncrossing on the other side like silver shadow said THANKS SILVER FOR ACTUALLY FIGURING SOMETHING OUT BY YOURSELF AND NOT JUST RETYPING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID LIKE YOU KNOW EVERYTHING AND SAVING ME SOME FRIGGIN TIME AND GETTING SOME RESPECT FROM ME i hope nobody missed that. whichever. you guys have confused me too much now and i've had too much coffee and i don't even know what to say. plus there's a prrrretty girl with gorgeous lips waiting for me and i have rehearsal in two hours what the hell am i doing here
i think that glass' new "families" thread is the best thing to happen to hop since computers go practice that stuff and stop obsessing about airwraps
grrrr...jesus you guys. i'm gonna bitch now but don't take it too seriously but dammit listen [puts on a french maid outfit to clean all this shite up]. first of all i thiiiiink you need to understand the outside, inverted, and inside definitions, i made those clarifications for a reason, to differentiate btwn all these things. the point being which direction each plane is originating from.at the fingertips
seems like some confusion is still happening not because of calling airwraps in the wall and inside (i guess static) different than the weave(outside to outside) or maxi plus (outside inverted outside) or maxi plus variations (inverted outside) which is all fine, and correct, just renaming stuff and that makes problems for me cause nobody's ever bothered translating what a friggin hyperloop or airwrap is in my terminology and i stilll don't understand and why should i even give a frick cause my definition seems more mathematical and understandable and nobody seems to care that i don't know you just keep eating it up and then renaming it and cutting me out of the loop and prancing about like you own it and your poop just fell right out of the sky and i'm just confused cause now i don't know what you're talking about but i'll stop bitchin? but you gotta come correct on naming beats and i really think you might want to try going back to my definition which goes by number if times heads cross the side of the circle opposite the Crossover Point, in most airwraps this is also the tangle [but on outside inside (static?) it's a little fuzzy cause the crossovers are facing each toher). ask glass what i mean by CP if it isn't obvious.
4 beat airwraps i mean do four circles before moving to another side, no more. not with techniques, that would make a 2 beat, inside for 2, back out. you can't just add the total circles together and call it a 4 or text will dissolve. then there's about 500 addative ways to do a 4. i mean purist 4 beats, one way as i said long ago is to pull the knot away from the knot and plane like i think rev is describing. one way. another as i also said a while ago is to isolate in a minimal back and forth motion to keep the circles going. but i found another way the other night. i'm not going to keep typing right now cause i sort of frustrated with i'm not sure what except you guys need to chill out and stop renaming everything or at least list everybody's definitions esp. the guys' who are trying to help you i'm coming out of end of isolated five beat (because the poi are moving in conical spirals rather than crisp lines), stop your isolated hand motions, airwrap, and cross over the spiral for the basic ouside to outside and yes i was right it is invertable last night i got four on one side and 6 on the other by doing the cross arm airwrap and uncrossing on the other side like silver shadow said THANKS SILVER FOR ACTUALLY FIGURING SOMETHING OUT BY YOURSELF AND NOT JUST RETYPING WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID LIKE YOU KNOW EVERYTHING AND SAVING ME SOME FRIGGIN TIME AND GETTING SOME RESPECT FROM ME i hope nobody missed that. whichever. you guys have confused me too much now and i've had too much coffee and i don't even know what to say. plus there's a prrrretty girl with gorgeous lips waiting for me and i have rehearsal in two hours what the hell am i doing here
i think that glass' new "families" thread is the best thing to happen to hop since computers go practice that stuff and stop obsessing about airwraps
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
and
i don't know how much(if any) of that was aimed at me, but if help is not wanted then i'll be elsewhere for a day or three
(not at all ) cause personally i thought this thread was turning productive.... :
couldn't agree more on the last line tho
and
i don't know how much(if any) of that was aimed at me, but if help is not wanted then i'll be elsewhere for a day or three
(not at all ) cause personally i thought this thread was turning productive.... :couldn't agree more on the last line tho
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
ok,
today.
multi beat airwrap/hyperloop/nexus (dammit am i begging to like that term?) 4 beats on the outside.
for a normal thingy, the poi tangle conical and the lateral force created pulls them to the other side. therefore to get more than one beat (or whatever, i call it a beat because its a rytum thing, you can feel poi pulse with the earth (gravity for non hippies) airwrap beats may well be semi quavers but whatever) as i was saying
to get more than one beat you have to damp the latteral force, then re-inject it.
in practice this means tweaking the hyp ever so slitghty, in forwards right hand on top i use the top hand to move toward the tangle, which takes out the latteral force.
then the tricky bit, in doing this you some how manage to make the leading poi miss the inside. the easy bit is the 4th beat cos that will follow the leader, maybe thingys work a bit like metiors....
the bit thats really ticking me off is reingecting the lateral force without going super wonky, any help out there?
T
p.s. and i may edit this, I got poi commin out of my ass at the moment, i fully dig the whole deal, but I dont understand errm.. thingys, thats why im participating in this conversation. (language is defined by the peaple who use it.) for arashi, drink less coffie
ok,
today.
multi beat airwrap/hyperloop/nexus (dammit am i begging to like that term?) 4 beats on the outside.
for a normal thingy, the poi tangle conical and the lateral force created pulls them to the other side. therefore to get more than one beat (or whatever, i call it a beat because its a rytum thing, you can feel poi pulse with the earth (gravity for non hippies) airwrap beats may well be semi quavers but whatever) as i was saying
to get more than one beat you have to damp the latteral force, then re-inject it.
in practice this means tweaking the hyp ever so slitghty, in forwards right hand on top i use the top hand to move toward the tangle, which takes out the latteral force.
then the tricky bit, in doing this you some how manage to make the leading poi miss the inside. the easy bit is the 4th beat cos that will follow the leader, maybe thingys work a bit like metiors....
the bit thats really ticking me off is reingecting the lateral force without going super wonky, any help out there?
T
p.s. and i may edit this, I got poi commin out of my ass at the moment, i fully dig the whole deal, but I dont understand errm.. thingys, thats why im participating in this conversation. (language is defined by the peaple who use it.)
for arashi, drink less coffie This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
okay sorry i feel better now. all this renaming crap and not quite redundant enough to be logical explantions is just getting to me, my time is tight right now people ask me to help them and then i have to first spend an hour trying to understand what everybody means when there's already threads on this stuff and people just keep redoing what's been done and adding a new twist or term and starting a whole new thread, which is silly cause you _learned_ it somewhere and why rehash it just keep the energy going where it is. just look at how smart coleman is he just puts a link to the original thread. ask the question there if it isn't clear enough in it's original explanation, that way it doesn't become compounded by people reading different threads and having different ideas without even reading the original. and really part of me wants to read ego into it. this is just an example not of ego but of ridiculous confusion but like as far as i can quickly scan good ole rev trying to help just tried to teach glass what a hyperloop is and for fugs sake glass made up the term and could school all of us on how to be a clean whistlin mother and sexy nerd to boot! and i now here we are barfing out the same 4 beat explanations that have been typed no i mean pecked out cause i can't type well already and all because i just said somewhere wow i have another cool 4 beat btb move i found. these things aren't that hard and you are making things so much harder by renaming them nexus or static or whatever and we have to spend time cleaning up rather than helping to teach the fundamentals and angles. i've had my names for this stuff for years glass has had his names for years. you can name them again if you want cause we don't own the move but don't bring it here unless you didn't learn them here ie. taught yourself and you think explaining your language would help the discussion. Simian, this may help but it took so long to read all these posts that i can't be sure this was one of your your problems... with the same basic entrance (alas the entrance matters), there's no mathematical difference between a1 beat outside/inside airwrap and a 1 beat outside/outside airwrap, just the position to the body. outside/inverted(maxi plus variations, O/I, O/I/O, I/O, I/O/I) and outside/outside are different enough to call them something else which is i guess where the londoners have airwraps and hyperloops. and dammit i still don't know which a friggin hyperloop is. and friggin glass sat there and showed me but i forgot cause we were stoned in spaz out theory barf mode. can somebody please tell me in arashi terms?
sigh i need 2 car bombs and a shot of tequila
okay sorry i feel better now. all this renaming crap and not quite redundant enough to be logical explantions is just getting to me, my time is tight right now people ask me to help them and then i have to first spend an hour trying to understand what everybody means when there's already threads on this stuff and people just keep redoing what's been done and adding a new twist or term and starting a whole new thread, which is silly cause you _learned_ it somewhere and why rehash it just keep the energy going where it is. just look at how smart coleman is he just puts a link to the original thread. ask the question there if it isn't clear enough in it's original explanation, that way it doesn't become compounded by people reading different threads and having different ideas without even reading the original. and really part of me wants to read ego into it. this is just an example not of ego but of ridiculous confusion but like as far as i can quickly scan good ole rev trying to help just tried to teach glass what a hyperloop is and for fugs sake glass made up the term and could school all of us on how to be a clean whistlin mother and sexy nerd to boot! and i now here we are barfing out the same 4 beat explanations that have been typed no i mean pecked out cause i can't type well already and all because i just said somewhere wow i have another cool 4 beat btb move i found. these things aren't that hard and you are making things so much harder by renaming them nexus or static or whatever and we have to spend time cleaning up rather than helping to teach the fundamentals and angles. i've had my names for this stuff for years glass has had his names for years. you can name them again if you want cause we don't own the move but don't bring it here unless you didn't learn them here ie. taught yourself and you think explaining your language would help the discussion. Simian, this may help but it took so long to read all these posts that i can't be sure this was one of your your problems... with the same basic entrance (alas the entrance matters), there's no mathematical difference between a1 beat outside/inside airwrap and a 1 beat outside/outside airwrap, just the position to the body. outside/inverted(maxi plus variations, O/I, O/I/O, I/O, I/O/I) and outside/outside are different enough to call them something else which is i guess where the londoners have airwraps and hyperloops. and dammit i still don't know which a friggin hyperloop is. and friggin glass sat there and showed me but i forgot cause we were stoned in spaz out theory barf mode. can somebody please tell me in arashi terms?
sigh i need 2 car bombs and a shot of tequila
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
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