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glowshow
member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 26th Sep 2001
Total posts: 406
Posted:I will start off by saying that I know it has been discussed, nay arged, about before. I searched, but didn't want to add this to those threads because this would go as a second thought. It is quite alright if you close this, Pele, and it doesn't matter if one person replies. I am in the mood to try to set some things straight, and clear the air of some of the (rare, but there) predjudices and stereotypes on "ravers." I know that everyone has their own opinions, and that is fine. Some people might like me even less after this, but it will be because they are offended by truth. Hopefully, some of you will be able to make a distinction after I am done.There is a difference between being a "raver/true party kid" and just someone who goes to the events. The growing popularity and publicity of the scene has started to attract any ole' kid who can borrow enough money from mom to go to Gadzooks and buy a pair of Kikwears, buy some cheap bracelets, and call themselves "ravers." After their first one, they will buy a pacifier, and string it to a bunch of beads, then call themselves "True Ravers." For the people who have been with the scene since its early days of true underground "raves", it isn't the same anymore. The parties still kick ass, and I am grateful for all the people who pay these exhorbitant prices to keep the music flowing. But for the most part, we try to stay as far away from that word as possible. It carries all of the negative conotations that have been imposed upon it. We are party kids. We knew what PLUR was before some schmo put it on a bumper sticker and a t-shirt and capitalized on it. We live by it. And to those who disagree with the statements "It's all about the music" or "I go for the music and to dance" just flat out don't get it. Sure, I will occasionally indulge myself, but that isn't the only reason you should go. The people who go to these events and happily dole out $30 for a ticket $4 for bottled water and $25 for bunk pills, then booty dance, breakdance to trance, and stand in the middle of the dance floor don't get it. You don't crowd the dance floor to watch the dj like a concert. You dance or get the hell out of the way. Most of the time, people who call themselves "ravers", aren't. There are a few on this board who do and rightfully are, but there are also a few who do and screw it up for the rest of us.My philosophy in life- I call 'em like I see 'em. And, people, don't take this too personally. Like I said, if this offends you, then I am probably talking about you.And if you are wondering, or need any clarification, then I suggest you read this or this. If you don't fit into about 90% of it, just say that you *attend* "raves." And make sure to read the Raver's Manifesto. That sums it up, and is what it is all about.Sorry this was so long. And my apologies to anyone who got their feelings hurt. I respect everyone for who they are. Just make sure that your heart is in the right place-the music! ------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---[This message has been edited by glowshow (edited 18 February 2002).][This message has been edited by glowshow (edited 18 February 2002).]

FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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glowshow
member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 26th Sep 2001
Total posts: 406
Posted:This one is pretty good, too!
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------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:Right on man, some good points there.I'm not going to go much in to my opinions about clubbers /(ravers)as you guys call them, because you pretty much said it all. But take the club I work at for example "gatecrasher" man there are so many asshole fashion victims there, fair enought I see the point about going to a club for:1- friends2- music3- drugs4- the DJ 5- the clubbut to go to a club like the one i work for every week dressed in:1- pokomon t-shirt2- winnie the pooh or powerpuff girls backpacks on3- Dummies stuck in their mouths4- all have the same dance moves, where they weave their hands around their arms and shit.. they can all do it exactly the same... it's pathetic..i've seen kids there with the same outfit on every week for like 6 months..! WTF. and they look at me and go what the fuck has he come as...(large mowhawk, big facial pierceings and tattoo's big baggy pants and sweater!) But they only see a club side of raves and probably dont even know that most saturday nights they have paid 15 quid to get into a club and a bunch of people have rigged up a sound system in an old factory or out in some remote location.. complete different scene's between the fashion victim clubbers who think they are so cool with their outfits and thing they are the true clubbers.. and people doing their own thing risking it for their friends! thats true friendsI dont go to clubs or free parties much any more as I work stupid days and hours, But when i do go, its for frinds, music, and to have a damn good spin. --------------------------------------------See no mention of the drugs topic here, if your gonna banta on about drugs use ther drugs threads under social..--------------------------------------------PKhttp://uk.geocities.com/poi_in_the_park_sheffield[This message has been edited by vain-ego pk (edited 18 February 2002).]

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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Marlboro
member
Location: St.Annes, Lancashire, England
Member Since: 28th Jun 2001
Total posts: 180
Posted:I agree. IMHO Society, as the masses, has always done this. Underground scenes, be it rave, trance, hip-hop, drugs, have always had their ideas taken by those who influence the masses via media etc, and diluted to suite. The majority have no true self awareness (or am I just a cynic?), and everyone has their own path to follow in this life, but most follow the sign posts given, rather than seeking their own way. In a way limiting their experience, and living in a comfort zone. Is ignorance bliss? No.The underground scene will always regenerate itself, as long as there is life there will aways be people who live at the edge of what they are doing (that sensation of really feeling alive), innovating, creating, diversifying, crossing that fine line between sanity and insanity.Live for the moment and follow your own path!M:-)~Rant over.
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[This message has been edited by Marlboro (edited 18 February 2002).][This message has been edited by Marlboro (edited 19 February 2002).]


We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

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Jello
ambiguous
Location: Mpls, MN, USA
Member Since: 29th Jan 2002
Total posts: 646
Posted:I, as well, agree. I am a party kid, I go because I love the music and I love to dance/twirl. I must admit I do enjoy phat pants, but Inormally wear larger pants anyways and have done so since middle school. They're just comfortable and normal to me, I don't feel right in anything else. Right now I'm kind of sad about my local scene. There is one club who has been bringing in alot of big names, Carl Cox, Dieselboy, Dj Rap, Dj Dan, Bad Boy Bill, and Rave Ralph are coming soon to name a few, and while I want to see all of them, there is just something different and almost wrong about club events. While this club is one of the better ones I've seen, it still lacks the underground party feel which I soo enjoy. And since all these big names are coming to town, no other promotor is going to try and have a party on that night, so sigh, no other parties are going on for a long time. ------------------Ambiguous

_________________________________
Fuzzy Dice.......................................

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jonathan
enthusiast
Location: new zealand
Member Since: 24th Nov 2001
Total posts: 210
Posted:i havent really been a raver for like 5 years now, i got sick of all the munters and kids passing out in front of me and the increasing necessity for chastity belts while just dancing for fun.its a bit sad to see the way its gone aye?still swings and roundabouts, as more people catch onto what plurr means and is all about hopefully the world will be a nicer place.....i dont think these much wrong with wearing the same clothes each weekend... esp if ya cant afford any different onesi guess its up to people like gloshow to try and teach these younguns by good example and conduct(see, i can take 5 e's and still dance for hours!!!)he he he he ahhh yes how well i remember

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phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:I agree with most of what's been said (did i just say that?) but one thing you have to take in account is you aren't born a "true party kid". When i first started partying i guess you could put me in the category of "chachi raver". I was about doing drugs not not the music. Obviously i changed but you gotta give some slack to the people who are new to the scene. Give them the benefit of the doubt, because in a few months (or years) and they'll see the light. Also, sometimes i like to party with those "chachi raves" more than some of the old skool guys. Though there are a lot of wanna be partiers there are also many many jaded ravers. All they do is complain about how it was better back in the day. Make fun of how people dress if there not in there 3/4 pants and are wearing adidas track jackets (damn junglists lol).------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====

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glowshow
member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 26th Sep 2001
Total posts: 406
Posted:Actually, Phunky, this thread was semi-inspired by a mixture of the same thing you said in fewer words the other day, and a comment about "not wanting to be associated with people who label themselves ravers" that I read while perusing through the events board.I don't hate. I don't begrudge these kids their fun, and I never whine about how good it used to be so much that I can't have fun in the present. In fact, in my area, my girl and I are among the more well respected people who are pushing to keep the scene alive among the growing bans and regulations of the "Bible Belt." We have thrown the one-offs, leased a club (only to have uptight city officials literally pull the plug on us, but that's a different story), organized events, and donated our house and land for the most unbelieveable string of house parties for half of a year once we lost the club. And we do it for free. We pay the dj's and rent the P.A., and flier the hell out of everything in sight.I don't hate these kids. I remember how hard it was for me to find my niche in such a confusing new environment, but the growing popularity attracts more than just the people who truly want to be there. 20/20 (a documentary news program) runs an inside undercover exclusive into a "rave" to exploit the drug use. Then someone else will do a special about E, and say "this drug is most often found at 'raves', or underground all night dance parties" and point the finger right where all the troubled teens who want to experiment need to go to "hook up on some X." Then it becomes a supply and demand program, and the scene is diluted.OMG!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN THE BOOBS ON THAT ONE!!! There, did I recapture your attention? hahaha
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It isn't about the style. It isn't about all the kids, frankly they make a great audience. I like to see a pack of 16-year-olds pile 6 deep into a car with Virginia plates and kandy hanging from every possible hook and loop in the ceiling. They came for the music. They came to make a new friend and DANCE. For the vibe or whatever you want to call it. To each their own, but there are a lot of people who go to parties but wouldn't really care if all of them ceased to exist tomorrow. They are the ones who drop glass and accidentally kick it into the middle of the circle. The ones who rob people and ram you with their shoulder when they pass you because you wear kandi.I didn't want to turn this into a finger pointing fest when I started. I just wanted to let everyone who cares enough to read this know that there is a differentiation between "ravers/party kids" and people who just go to them. I frgot who, but someone argued once on this board that they weren't a "clubber" but they did go out to clubs on the weekend. Well put.And yes, I do try to lead by example (although not quite as comically sarcastic as Jonothan put it) You can pick the ones out who will stick to this at all costs. They are the best people in the world. Phunky, I will ore than agree with you. the "chachi ravers" are the coolest to hang out with sometimes, because they are still in their honeymoon stage with this. Their eyes still light up at everything. They aren't "jaded." (Which, by the way, I see alot of, unfortunately.) They love everybody there. That is who I do my work for. The ones who will replace me. (Hopefully not soon
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) ------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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phunky
old hand
Location: Edmonton, AB
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 877
Posted:That would explain why i agree with everything you've said then, lol.I saw that 20/20 thing. That was just brutal. Almost everything in the media gives raves a bad name. Which is why no one wants to be associated with that name.------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====

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glowshow
member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 26th Sep 2001
Total posts: 406
Posted:True. True.------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---

FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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Itsgottab
member
Location: NZ
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 244
Posted:i understand you point glowshow, but obivously you still haven't got it have you. what does this plurr thing mean again???

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Um.... does the term 'Raver Fascist' exist yet, or can I have trademark on it? [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif">[/image] I quote the manifesto : "We can only hope you do not care to judge us, because we would never judge you"It's hard, but one of the major principles of partying is an open mind and a non-judgmental outlook.I'm not sure about the term 'rave' at all. I think maybe ravers are just a different type of clubber. You see, I don't know anyone who calls themselves a raver, but I see a lot of clubbers and I'm assuming the link. These 'Ravers' seem to be as much fashion victims as the ponciest clubber. A pacifier is as much a sign of a victim as a Moschino shirt.I occasionally get dragged to more mainstream clubs by my friends (like Fabric, Ministry, etc...) and I tend not to enjoy it. Too many gurning idiots, too many lads trying to pull some totty. Too much show. Not enough thought and positive enjoyment.Me. I go to what tend to be called 'parties'. So I go to parties, I sometimes go to clubs, sometimes pure hard dance events that might be raves, but I'm not a raver or a clubber or a partier, like I'm not a poier or staffer. I'm not defined by a single recurring act, hobby, event or style. I'm not cookie cutter
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A party tends to be an event organised by a collective of individuals, not a company, for the purpose of creating an inspiring environment and creating a collective spirit. A lot of these occur in illegal squats or semi-legal 'members only' locations. The music is normally a mix of psy-trance, acid techno, chill out, acoustics, world beats, poetry, plays, anything at all worth listening to! There's chill out areas, healing areas, massage tables, herbal drinks, chai, kids areas, stalls. Variety is the key. Bottles of water cost 1, cigarettes 3 a pack, it's 5 to get in. Costs are covered and the small profits are shared and channelled back to the next party.Who attends: everyone. Every social group, every age group. Teenagers, children, hippies, families, original 60's acid casualties, beer drinkers, drug takers, meditating dancers, locals wondering what on earth has landed down the road, long hair, short hair, UV active baggy trousers, the scruffiest jeans and t-shirts. Everyone.My point is, there is no manifesto. There is no typical party goer. There is no standard, no manifesto. Which is why I don't like people saying 'I'm a true raver'! It can be a bit childish. There's only a couple of simple rules, like 'be nice to each other'. You bring yourself and you bring positive energy to the party in whatever way, shape or form."Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." Oh, and if anyone was at the Galactic Activation Portal Experiment on the weekend, wasn't it good!!![This message has been edited by -Dom- (edited 19 February 2002).]


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_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:Yay Hay!!!! good comments..For any of you in and around the south of the UK.. Look out for POD or System Co-exsistance.. two local 'underground' sound systems - we are all in it for the music.. come, play, be free!http://www.coexistencesoundsystem.co.uk/The website is not updated that often - but it gives you the idea...
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I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I've heard of POD. Some of my favourite party people are the more psy, like Clockwork Prism and ID Spiral.Also, very cool people to have involved with a party: The Kwalilox Fairies! Gotta love 'em!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I am by far no Raver/Clubber I am just a guy who saw a friend spinning glowsticks one day and thought, holy cow thats cool. I wanna do that. So he showed me the basics and I have been self tought ever since. I spin for myself, I spin where I want when I want and to what music I want, though I must admit that I have been getting in a rut as far as what music I spin to. I would like to open up a new classification, I am a spinner, I wouldnt call myself a good one, just someone who is out there for me not to impress anyone but myself.Good day to you all.This next part is off topic, ya dont really need to read it if you dont want to.I do honestly hope that the comment made by vain-ego pk was not made in a condencending tone to myself. If it was I do take a rather large amount of offence to it, but as this is not my topic I will not say anything more about it.------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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_Stix_
_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land
Member Since: 15th Feb 2002
Total posts: 2419
Posted:Raymund Phule - we spin because we love it.. purly for ourselves - it does not matter if we are pink, green or yellow with polka dots.. we spin therefor we are - my friend - to techno or classical..what ever.. WE SPIN AND WE LOVE IT! I believe that it makes us a family.. (well you are a bro to me anyway coz we share one thing in commen!)---------Spinning is my religion......
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Dom - you been to any of our parties??


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:DOM,Noticed you didn't mention Liquid Connective or the Collective
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Yes, I went to the Collective party.. it was AMAZING!!! The Mindscapes room was just incredible!! The music was fantastic, the vibe was amazing! I got to firedance on the roof with my Just Juggler friends. Did you catch the performance in the Mindscapes room with all the glowtoys and costumes and stuff? Breathtaking..BTW, I agree with a LOT of what you just said.I just wanted to second your opinion on this.As for the raver snobs (mostly from the US it seems)The fundamental beginning of the "rave" scene stemmed from the squat parties and forest parties in and around London, Manchester and Ibiza, from my understanding.They evolved from the house/disco, techno/trance music that was a growing style.What is a rave? Raver manifesto? They're labels and rules for something that is not supposed to have any rules! Its deciding who and what and why people should be going out on the weekend when all they should be doing is LETTING LOOSE!!If you think I don't "get it" or that I'm getting mad. I'm not. I just feel sorry for people who think its their place to impose their beliefs on others. It shows an incredible level of arrogance and self-righteousness if you're an adult, and an incredible level of childishness if you're a kid.Anybody is perfectly equiped and ready to be annoyed or displeased with things that other people do. That is human nature.Nobody should be allowed to tell other people what to do, or how they should behave, unless it is actually causing them harm. *Especially* when its to do with a pasttime that is centred around hedonistic fun.IMO, If you want to make rules, and attempt to ostracize those who don't fit into your little world, go back to high school.


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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:I just wanted to add my notice on things. Ford began running a new commercial for the Focus (Mondeo) with the whole "rave" theme. I find it completely humorous that even though the media will run a 20/20 special on the dangers of club drugs and how bad they are, they'll run an ad selling stuff to kids that attend the places where all that stuff can be found. Not only are they willing to play commercials directly marketed towards 'ravers', there are also subtle things to look for, aslo. Is it just me, or is there a ton of Drum and Bass on every commercial now?Gotta love the media.A better hyppocrite can't be found, 'till you look at politicians...
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toneman


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Smoky - Hey, they're all the same people anyway!
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I just happen to know ID Spiral and Clockwork better. That ID Spiral 'Welcome Home' sign always indicates a good night. 'Welcome Home' is a good enbodiment of the party spirit.Sorry to go on, but it was amazing. A squat party with hot water and even a lift! The glow toys and costumes were everywhere, poi everywhere! I love spinning those Aerotech Gloclubs! I did smell the parafin, in the large acid technoy room over the bridge. Wondered who was trying to burn the place down
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Anyway, see you at JJ tomorrow.


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glowshow
member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 26th Sep 2001
Total posts: 406
Posted:If you read the posts correctly, you would have seen that I am not attempting to ostracize anyone. I was only trying to point out to some of the bigots on this board who say they hate (American) ravers, that not everyone who attends raves is a raver, so to speak. I am not "pushing beliefs" on anyone. You are who you are, and hopefully you will choose to be a beautiful person inside. But if not, to each their own. This thread was sparked by comments that I have read over the past few months by people expressing their dislike of ravers in general because of the actions of some. The American scene is a far cry from what exists over there. We have been placed as about 5-7 years behind you guys in everything "trendy," and that's fine. I don't know too terribly much about what the parties are like over there, but I know that over here, the media has pinpointed us as the root of all things evil with the youth of our country. It is a moniker that has branded us as bad people, when most of us are striving to be good. It is NOT about fashion, or who has been doing this the longest or whatever. I would still walk straight up and talk to you like I grew up with you, regardless of whether you were wearing skin tight levi's or a navy uniform. You are completely right, and I don't judge. The new kids are sometimes better than the old ones, but there has to be a teacher. We hope that our pupils will become our proteges. Maybe things are just different over here. I agree with smokeybowl. There have been too many stereotypes and rules put on to basically just an outlet for fun. You see, over here this type of activity has been shunned and labeled. It is not socially acceptable, especially where I hail from in the heart of the Bible Belt. It should be a good time. But the media has taken our generations equivalent of the "hippy movement" and slandered it with such bad press on drugs and *GASP* kids having fun! that it is almost to the point where it is outlawed. The problem that we face is of supply and demand. The media and politicians have labeled raves as drug rings. They then broadcast to everyone on prime time TV that "THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN FIND DRUGS, KIDS! GO HERE TO HOOK UP ON SOME 'E'!" And then they pass rave ordinaces and crack house laws to shut us down. It has gotten to the point now where the government is spewing propaganda commercials about "if you do drugs, you are funding terrorists who will then kill Americans and it is all your fault just for having a little fun." The Ravers Manifesto is not a set of rules, it was written in explanation and defense of our sub-culture. And it was written by one of the people involved in creating this scene in America. It's points are valid. We are defending our right to be accepted as who we are. Like I said, America is different. And I am damn glad of it, too. We deserve the right to do what we want. I am not a snob. I don't sit back and bitch about "the good old days." I create more. I do my best to show people what is "right" in all of this. And try my damndest to show those coming into this the time of their lives, because they are what makes it happen again. I'm not going to sit here and try to defend myself anymore. Re-read what I already posted. To those who think I am a fascist, so be it. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one, and they all stink. Including my own. There is always a finger to be pointed. Mine is pointed at all the people who come into my house and then shit on the floor. Have the respect to let us have our fun. Or whatever, my eyes are tired.------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---

FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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Kosmik Lunatik
member
Location: mass
Member Since: 6th Jul 2001
Total posts: 58
Posted:Hey I totally agree with you. Now I never actually considered my self a raver even though I fit into every catagory you suggested. Except I'm a t-shirt and jeans guy. And automatically people say "You Rave".To me u don't have to dress any way to do any thing. I'm comfortable and thats all that matters. I'd rather be a true partier on the inside than have to front myself by wearing "required" atire.Just my thoughtsMatty

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:You know gloshow, I wasn't nastily attacking you or having a massive go, so there was no need to defend yourself, just expand on what you said
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In your first post (and I did read it again) you basically said - and I'm paraphrasing - "I'm a raver, and if you're not 90% like me then you're not a raver and you're only a visitor to the rave scene." Which does come across as a bit snobbish.Your last post said a whole lot more, and expressed your angst at how you see yourself perceived. The uphill struggle against this perception is a hard one, and the political rhetoric that you'll face is harsh, especially in America, and the bible belt has got to be the worst. It's prejudice and discrimination, but as it's not against you because of your race or sex then nobody recognises it. I feel sorry for you guys, and I hope that one day you and I have the freedom that we deserve.So, keep doing what you're doing, and have bloody good fun doing it!
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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

Enter a "Title" here:
Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:You know this may sound like I am being a hypocrite, but I have been told time and time again that I do not accept people or their opinions, now what it sounds to me is that glowshow is being the same way. He has his view and opinion on how a "raver" should be, look and act. Personally if you wish to hold me to the idea that I have no mercy when it comes other peoples opinion, then I hold you to the same in that you would rather scruitinise how a person dresses, or how they dance, whatever. Let them be, let them dance to what they want and how they want, and by george let them where the cloths that they want. This was not an attack on anybody, just me voicing my opinion.------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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glowshow
member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 26th Sep 2001
Total posts: 406
Posted:Alright, fair enough. I can see where that can be seen as snobbery. It wasn't my intention. I started this at about 4:30 in the AM after coming home Saturday night (I was sober), and the thoughts didn't come out exactly as I intended. It has taken me a couple of posts to clarify myself, and that is what I will continue to do now. I am not renegeing on things I have said to cut the flack from others.I think that the term "rave" means a completely different thing over here than it does over there. Over here it is generalized as any after-hours dance party, be it at a club, at a fairgrounds, or in the woods. So there isn't the dintinction of "clubbers." They also tend to attract a lot of people who wouldn't normally be there if it wasn't for the chance of scoring drugs. And along with them comes media hype. And along with that, comes the law. And when the law comes, most of those people who attracted the attention in the first place tend to bail out. Myself and others went to town hall meetings and wrote and petitioned city hall personally when the proposition of a rave ordinance came up here. I am not trying to fluff myself up, but there is a distinction between the people whose hearts are into it. And it has nothing to do with how you act or dress.I will back off my comment about being a certain way. Those links are mostly inside jokes and such, but there are a few that really do apply. They aren't the ones about how you dress or what you do. They are the ones that imply that you are having a damn good time at being a kid, regardless of your age. That you live life to its fullest, wait, just thought of something. quote:Live fully. Rave wholy.Didn't mean to single people out because they do or don't wear Kandy. I shouldn't have tried to single anyone out. I just hate that the people who live for this have to take the blame for the people who don't care about what they have the ability to destroy through apathy.I live for this. All I wanted to do was to point out to people here, in the same way as I have to point out to my fellow citizens, that we are not these idiotic sub-human creatures just because of our choice of recreation and/or lifestyle. And I obviously got a little too defensive. You all brought up some very good points. Noone is perfect, and if this is what they choose to do, it really isn't my place to tell them no. Let them eat cake. I'll back off, because I don't really have anything further to say that I want to post here for now. Feel free to attack my logic, because I am just plain tired now. As my great friend, Pinky, once said *in the highest pitched voice you can imagine* "I'm not cute, I'm hardcore!!!" ------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---[This message has been edited by glowshow (edited 19 February 2002).]

FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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firestorm
member
Location: Redding, CA, USA
Member Since: 7th Feb 2001
Total posts: 28
Posted:I think one of the problems with raves is not so much the drug use in and of itsself, but the REDICULOUS AMOUNT of drug use that occures. Thoese E-tards need to get a clue, long term brain damage is no laughing matter. Another problem is the fact that at many raves leave the venue completely trashed. I don't blame fairgrounds and large halls for slamming their doors to the rave scene. This is especially true of outdoor events where over night beautiful lawns become trampled to death and covered in a sea of oversized-overproduced flyers, cigerette butts, empty waterbottles, zonned out dancers who havne't figured out that the music stopped, somebodies shoes, and other misclaneious trash.All things considered...they're still one hell of a good time!!! We can plant new grass anyway.What that has pleauged raves the most unfortunately is the government, and the negative media immage. It seems to me that governments (especually the US gov) are against anything that might promote peace and harmony. Being a US citizen, (not by choice) I live in a country where almost any idiot can buy a shotgun and blow somebodies head off, but growing a fucking plant- NOOO thats illegal, people might start getting along!!! If people are getting along and not killing eachother then there really isn't much of a need for police or prisons or rediculous laws or even borders. The government would be out of business. Another point. Each year tobaco kills 400,000 people in the US alone, more than every other drug we know of combined including alchohol. But police turn their backs when a thirteen year old's light up for the first time because its more of a hassle then its worth. Besides, taxes on cigerets and campain contributions from Philip Morris generate far more than fines for underage smoking could ever amount too. Don't be fooled. The government doesn't give a rats ass about your health or well being. (at least the US gov anyway), All they care about and all they've ever cared about is money and power. Exctacy isn't illegal because its horrifically bad for you. (and it really is) Its illegal because it makes the whole idea of athority seem kind of silly.

^_-

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Hmmm this is definitely a topic i can be an authority on. I too have seen the giant rise and commercialisation of raves and.... I doesn't worry me one effin' bit. Sure there are lot of 'newer' ravers 10 years younger who don't really 'get it'. But I find that only the insecure ravers complain aboot how its gone to hell.It hasn't.I do admit that my opinion is borne of a massive amount of party pescriptions (Half my budget!!) But jesus! take a chill pill phill! My opinion of new twirlers is exactly the same as my opion on ravers - doesn't matter if ur starting out or that your top shit, i loves it soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much I don't care and luv yas all.n stuff."Dude you look fucked man!"- someone in the car park last saturday------------------"He shall know your ways as if born to them"-Fremen prophecy

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:firestorm your post would be better suited for the drug topic that I started, that it all.Ohh ohh do I get a point?Just incase I do... POINT!!!------------------"Flag of the free heart's hope and home By angel hands to valor given,Thy stars have lit the welkin dome, And all their hues were born in heaven!Forever wave that standard sheet, Where breathes the toe but falls before usWith freedom's soil beneath our feet And freedom's banner streaming o'er us!"Albert J. Beveridge

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:Glowshow,I'm from Toronto, Canada..I don't know if you know about the struggle thats been going on there, but I was a part of the Party People Project which was and still is fighting to win our right to party.I understand that "we" are under a lot of fire because of our chosen pasttime, and I also know that you guys have it worse than I.I also know that the "raver manifesto", which as much as I despise it, has united some people under a common vision. It was used as a flag under which we united on Aug 1, 2000 for our first raver rally in Nathan Philips Square. Though I can't remember what we called it *bangs the side of his head*
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North American culture has its finer points. And I don't hate north american culture. But its expected that the media will feed on anything it can, and create problems where they can. Its unfortunate that the american public eats it up so much though!I know you're on the defensive from people in your country. But one thing that far too many people in this world (everywhere) have a little trouble understanding, is that people outside there own countries live by different rules, and socio-economic and political issues play a major part in our common attitudes... Besides historical events that cause a I've met people who think that if you can't dance with some sort of footwork, or up to a certain standard, aren't real ravers. People who think that if you don't do drugs your not a real raver, people who think that if you're not into a certain music your not a real raver.I understand that our community is labelled and therefore we're being forced to define what a "raver" is to people who are so fucking ignorant that you could piss on their heads and tell them its liquid ecstacy.Wait for a second though, and realize that out here, people don't care. Lets dance, laugh, communicate, love, flow, go and have some serious FUN.Nobody cares if you go every weekend, if you like the same music as me, we have something to talk about. If you like the drugs, we have something to do together. If you like yoga, we can go to classes together.I can see now that you weren't intending on ostracizing anybody, but I just want you to see where my mentality is, and how reprimanding or condemning people for not fitting in to your image of what a 'raver' is seen as a judgemental act.I've dealt with this same attitude in Toronto too by the way, and I know enough people that support the "raver manifesto", but I still think its bollox. I'm just glad that shit like that doesn't exist out here, or if it does its in such small amounts that I haven't found any of it except in Ministry and fabric ect...One thing though, kandy is fun, and I like kandy styles. I also like khakis, jeans, middle eastern wear.. And I *love* fluoro most of all. (Fluoro is the newer style that is more centred around the psychedelic scene than the happy hardcore scene.)Saying Kandy is the coolest new wear is like telling you that house is the coolest new music. Apparently it was a big thing about 6+ years ago, there are hardly any HH parties anymore..(to summarize)Try not to think local and act global.. Think global, act local.


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Bendy
member
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Member Since: 29th Aug 2001
Total posts: 750
Posted:quote:there are hardly any HH parties anymore..Ohhhh if only! Unfortunately that is pretty well all you hear around here that and NRG - blech!Sorry people - resume
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Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

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SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:Oh, and as for catching up on whats cool, IMO, psy-trance, fluoroFirestormThis original sin shit that seems to be feeding on the US ravers, "ecstacy is bad/good" whatever is really annoying. Either do it or don't, if people want to get fucked up, let them. They're not hurting you, just themselves.What the government is doing it fooling you into hating them for no reason, just as they're doing with the rest of the public. If they find all these people getting high and dying then YOU will be blammed and YOU will be held responsible. This causes contempt, but that won't help you, they'll do it whether you want them to or not. Instead, just be ready to offer water to someone who needs it, and make sure that the guy passed out on ketamine is still breathing. And if you see someone too tripped out on acid, just don't tell them that they have insects crawling all over them. They hate that!
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I can assure you that helping them will do a lot more to ensure the survival of the rave scene in north america than anything else.If you don't do drugs, and you don't enjoy them, fine, thats your poragative. Do you really want to counter ignorance with arrogance?If you really feel that strongly about it.. then fine.. be that way.. Its unfortunate that I can't do what I feel like around you though (not that I'd care) and feel that you won't judge me based on your own standards.A mess after a Rave? have you ever seen what most rock concerts look like after a 6 hour show? How about Wookstock 99? Burning Man and Glastonbury both look like a mess afterwards.. Thats what cleanup crew is all about
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SmokyDavy
Do my poi look too small in this?
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 17th Jan 2002
Total posts: 394
Posted:quote:Ohhhh if only! indeed.. due to the fact that it mostly captures children, which is bad for press, and that all the producers got bored of it very very fast, you may have noticed an extremely large shortage of new UK HH.

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