TeeJay
TeeJay

member
Location: Malaeimi, Am. Samoa
Member Since: 23rd Oct 2003
Total posts: 75
Posted:I need some help everyone !
Down here we have few (read "none at all") laws regarding fire performance. However, a lot of our boys end up Stateside and, regardless of the laws, we are trying to set a standard here.
A couple of the guys use a box filled with sand to put out their fireknives, and they are a bit miffed because I refuse to allow it. We work with cotton wicks and white gas and I require them to use damp towels to extinguish the wicks. I do this mainly because the knives are almost always reused and I want to make sure they are completlely extinguished.
I know they got the idea from the Polynesian Cultural Center, but that's a sand pit, not a box, and it's very big. They also don't reuse the knives.
What is the requirement in the States regarding this ?
confused confused confused

Thanks,
TeeJay


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MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Dont think there is a requirement in the US. Are you talking about just performing for fun or professionally? Ive never heard of any laws or rules reguarding how to extinguish fire toys. I know I just extinguish mine by dunking them in more fuel. So long as you use paraffin/lamp oil or even kerosene, this is a pretty safe way to completely extinguish things. Damp towel works too but I dont like to get my stuff wet as I feel it can ruin toys.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:As long as you are cutting off the wick from an oxygen supply, it doesn't particularly matter how you quench your wicks. I've never seen people use a sand pit in this way, but it sounds like it should be effective. Is there some reason you don't like it?

There are no national laws on fire performance--this kind of thing is handled at the local level, and different towns have different rules. In my town (Austin), city-licensed fire performers are supposed to extinguish their wicks in a bucket of water, but I don't know anyone who does this.

Extinguishing your wicks in a wet towel will not damage them, btw. And as long as the towel isn't sopping wet (which it shouldn't be, anyhow), it won't cause any short-term problems.


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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TeeJay
TeeJay

member
Location: Malaeimi, Am. Samoa
Member Since: 23rd Oct 2003
Total posts: 75
Posted:Hi,

Thanks for the reply.
The reason I don't like the sandbox idea is that we use
Naptha (white gas) and the thought of redipping a knife which may still be smoldering bothers me a touch eek

Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions ?

TeeJay


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MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:If you dip quickly enough, you can actually dip a flaming poi back in your white gas and have it extinguish the flame. Although I don't suggest doing that, I'm simply saying that you shouldn't worry so much about dipping a smoldering wick back in your fuel. I'd be worried about the sand degrading the quality of the kevlar and getting stuck to it and possibly melting due to the head and fuel... just a thought.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:TJ, in my experience, you have every right to be worried.

Adam, I am surpirsed to see your comment above, particlaury as I knwo you have a lot of experience.

You can deprive a flame of oxygen by putting it in a vacumn, and when you expose it to air again it CAN relight itself.

Ignition is all about heat, oxygen and fuel, it has nothing to do with whether a flame is present or not.

I know that Kerosene and Lamp Oil can often put out wicks if fully dunked, BUT ONLY WHEN COLD! If you have redunked hot several times the fuel will be much warmer and the aromatics coming off will be far more likely to light.

Naptha is possible the worst commonly-used performance fuel for relighting, it has a veyr low flashpoint, meaning the gas can be ignited from a distance, and not only from a naked flame, but from any heat source.


I feel I must also explain why these Samoans MAY (this is just an eduated guess) use sand to put out their wicks.

1. As already mentioned, they are unlikely to use the toy again.
2. As already mentioned the sand is a huge pit, and it is left in there to cool down afterwards (i believe this is a dangerous practice too)
3. Fireknife dancers ahve a history of using very dangerous fuels, such as those from the service station! eek eek eek
Not only is this fuel EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, EXPLOSIVE, SUPERHOT and HIGHLY TOXIC, but it is virtually impossible to put out quickly, due the huge temperature it heats the fire knife up to during the show.

I DO NOT RECCOMEND ANYONE USE THIS FUEL. I liken it to the way everyone used asbestos for years in houses to make them safer, just because it has been done for a long time, doesn't mean its safe!!!!!!


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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Charles--
You're right, although sand isn't a bad medium for leeching away heat, and may be a more effective way to cut off the oxygen supply. I know that glass lampworkers stick their workpieces into sand to cool them off gradually. Better or worse than a damp towel? I don't know. Seems like more trouble in any event, but I don't dismiss out of hand the idea of extinguishing wicks in a sandbox.


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:i'm with charles on this one.


sand boxes are ok tho in my experience. as long as the flame is fully extinguished. the only real advantage i see a wet towel having is that it cools as well as extinguishes. and with something as volatile and low-temp-igniting as naptha you definitely want the extra of cooling!


but PLEASE don't use naptha.
not only has it all the disadvantages listed above but it also gives off a highly toxic smoke. i know one fire dancer from the ukraine who used this and now coughs up black goodies every morning(a lifelong non smoker too...) it's not safe.

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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