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Forums > Help! > Transitions - any ideas??

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Hi all,
I've been learning poi from Michal Kahn's Poi Spinning book (excellent book btw!) and i've reached the end of the book(almost....one more move to learn!Damn those BTB moves!). My problem is that i've been learning on my own and have been concentrating on learning each descibed move on its own. This i have no real problem with as it usually takes me 30 - 60 mins to learn a new trick and get it tight(apart from the BTB stuff which took me half a day arghhh). My problem is i'm having difficulty getting moves to flow together into any kind of routine or continuous spin. Each trick i learnt i practice on its own, forewards, backwards, inwards, outwards and turning both directions where needed so i have no problem with tricks its just i don't seem to be able to get em to go together!! Is it just a question of experimenting and lots of practice or are there techinques to master? At the moment i tend to only practice tricks on their own and don't often just spin for fun, i also don't practice very often(my bad). Usually practice once a week for about 1-2 hours and 15 mins each weekday during my lunch break.
Anyway enough of me rambling.....basically any tips would be greatly apreciated.....if u guys could give me an idea of what tricks can be linked and a brief explanation of how and where to link em would be out of this world!!
Cheers guys, Laters!

p.s. if anyone is up for a spin with me and lives sorta close to Stoke-On-Trent, UK let me know as i really want some company(tips )!!!


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Transitions come with practice: try going from one move to another while putting in a simple link move like a butterfly or a couple of extra spins between each move that you're trying to join, once it feels good then you can cut down on the amount of time you need to spend doing these link moves and soon you'll go into each move without having to do a link.

There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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Evil twin


member
Location: Reno NV (BRC resedint)

Total posts: 10
Posted:A big key to transitions is to have verry trim moves, if for instance, if your weve is not paralel, as soon as you try to turn, you will get run over by your tools. Practiceing in a halway, infront of a mirror or watching your shadow will help clean up your spins. Also, play music and move around a lot while you practicing, I have found that by dodging my mis steps, new transitions magicly appear!!

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Hey guys,
thanks for the input This week-end i finally learnt the last move in the book...the full waist wrap! The only problem i have is everytime i learn a new bahind the back move i get really bad back ache for the following few days!! Is this normal or am i doing something wrong or am i just really unfit!! lol
Anyway if any of u have any more ideas for transitions and what moves can be linked(and how to link em!) then i would apprectate it.
Thanks guys, laters.


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:hello,

I think if you have reached this stage its definatly time to abandon 'moves' altogether.

the only transition that kneeds thinking about is from weave family moves to butterfly family moves.

all thease 'moves' that you have learnt are actually transitions in themselves, the full waist wrapp is a transiton from a fron ww to a btb ww, the waist wrap itself is a transition from 2 beat weave on one plane, to another than back to that original plane but round the other side of you body.

try to stop thinking about them as a series if 'tricks' to be linked together, but just simply diffrent patterns for moving the poi, then to trasition you only have to take both poi to the starting point, make shure you in the right timing and go. Its time to put down the book and learn something.

You should definatly practice more, and practice with music to take you mind more out of 'doing tricks' and more into moving with the poi.

I tend to segregate my practice sessions into two halfs, fist I drill a set of moves im working on, but then i try and spend an equal amount of the time in 'flow' which is fitting any moves together on the spur of the moment.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:and on the back thing, stretch before you train.
also make sure you try the move the next day when it hurts, that way you will not be sore for more than a little while....




Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hey Headswim great topic for a thread, this is just where I happen to be trying to figure out this transition thingy. I have to agree with the listening to music idea as I have just started doing this and it really helps to take my mind of what I am doing, I just let it happen.....Now if I could only remember what worked.You could try the weave to windmill to reverse weave transition, that's a fun one and you can cycle through it endlessly.If you do this standing in one spot, facing in one direction, you end up with circles on either side of your body and a circle above your head, kinda like a pyramid. (did that make sense??

I am also trying to figure out a lot of this on my own but someone taught me to try and keep my circles flat to your "audience" meaning, if you are spinning on a compass and your audience is in the north, then your circles will be on an east/west plane, works great for the above described move but the problem comes when switching to the butterfly family of moves. I can't seem to do this without stalling one poi, anyone have any other ideas? The stall is fun but since I have been using music, most of it techno, I find this really screws up my timing unless I wait for a change in the music tempo.

Does anybody think I am off base with this "circles flat to the audience" style??? After all, the three beat weave looks like a completly different move when viewed from the front and I would hate to be limiting myself. beerchug


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:hello back at ya! biggrin
Isn't that transition you mentioned (weave to windmill to reverse weave) actually called the fountain? If so i already do it..... You can also put in fun things like the giant windmill including some lock-out sequences then link these to things like the wiggle etc. I can link most if not all of these types of move(that i know anyway!) and i can link most of the butterfly family but cannot get em to go together! Anyone who has any ideas for linking the weave family and the butterfly family i would be grateful for your input!! wink
The "flat circles" thing u mentioned is a good idea for an audience but if you want em to see it from a different angle the you can always do the whole thing whilst turning so they get to see it from every angle. The fountain can be done whilst turning 360 but expect to hit yourself lots when trying it out the first few times!!
Laters guys. wave


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hiya
The fountain huh,,,when I learned that combination I was told the name was "chasing the fire" the more I get into the names of "moves" the more I realize how many variations there are. Must have somthing to do with geography. To change the orientation, with respect to an audience I usually flip from the forward weave into the corkscrew and spin for a bit, that way I can present my weave moves "head on". Where it gets kinda boring is when I have to do this again to re-orient myself back to the circles flat to the audeince,however I would rather do this than spend the time muscling my weave back around 90 degrees. I experimented unsucessfully with a few attempts to flip them around.
Last summer I took some lessons from a guy named Nick, who is a frequent visitor to this site and he taught me the "stall over" method to switch from the butterfly family to the weave family. He has a video out where you can see this move, in fact I noticed he is on the COL4 video.I'll see if I can explain this..While doing the butterfly,, simply do one beat of the giant butterfly with one hand only and bring it down over top of the other hand and stall it while keeping the other hand doing what it was doing. there is another variation of this called "stall under" I won't try to describe that at this time as even I am starting to get confused.

One method he showed me to transition from weave to butterfly was to spin a large i.e. arm fully extended circle for a couple of beats, stall that hand, and presto, instant butterfly. I am still trying to figure out how th do these transitions without stalls as I have recently started spinning at techno speeds and find that the stalls really screw up my timing. hummmm,,,after reading some of the posts on the dancing with poi thread, I am beginning to wonder if this is all that important. Hope we can get this sorted

David beerchug


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Hey David, good to meet ya! wave
Last night i tried that one handed giant butterfly pause thing even though i didn't have the foggiest idea about it in my head and it just kinda worked! I was amazed as i was in my low head hight kitchen with lights above me and still didn't break any(more!). Nice one! Last couple of days i've only been indoors as its raining and cold out so i've been able to practice to music for the first time ever. WOW what a difference that makes!! I was flowing really well into strange new sequences and whats more it was in the confined space of my average sized kitchen!! I had a great night and will now always practice to music........i finally feel like i'm getting into it instead of just knowing some "moves". Strange as it may sound i kinda feel more connected to my poi as i spin now.......like they are a part of me and i know where they are at any time just like my arms. Anyway i'm off to practice more before u guys think i'm really weird!!
Laters, Martin. beerchug wave weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hiya Martin, I'm glad that stall over worked out for you, I find it really difficult to describe most poi moves in text,usually it just sounds like gibberish. I put in that giant butterfly description, thinking that you may have a copy of Nick's video, Dervishly Yers, if not you can download it from his website,,just search poi+Vancouver or poi at the venue.org, somthing like that. You don't need the giant part, in fact I just chuck one poi over the other in an effort to speed up the stall since most of the music I have been listening to is really fast (techno) and I am still comming to terms with spinning this fast. There is also a reverse butterfly version of this stall and I will not try to describe it here except to say it's real trickey and you end up withone elbow firmly in the crook of your other elbow, I still havn't got this one down yet.

One transition I hit on last night as I was practicing was to stall or wrap one forward spinning poi against your bicep. Just take one wrap of the chain around your hand to shorten itand bounce it off your arm which is sticking out 90 deg. from your body, elbow bent. This one works great when spinning fast and seems to work well for transitioning between weave family to butterfly family and back. I havn't tried it backwards very much as it feels very akward,,next week.
I also hit on the idea of burning custom spinning CDs, two songs fast, then one song slow,,just to mix it up. By the way that other thread "dancing with poi" has got me kinda freaked. I still like the "moves" idea and I am hung up on beats for the moment maybe this will pass as I am slowly beginning to understand flow, and how I can get some moves to work when spinning slow, but have to abandon them when spinning fast

Keep me posted
David weavesmiley


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

...curiously lost
Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:Hey,
I just got a look at that vid u wanted me to see at and that stall over thingie is a butterfly stop! Another move i already do but not to link to weave, just to reverse the butterfly! God alone know what i did last night to get to weave cause it wasn't that! lol ubbloco
I really wish i could meet up with someone who poi's cause everything i know i taught myself......could do with some lessons in fluidity from an expert! Anyway in a bit of a rush so i gotta go.....
Laters, Martin. wave


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hey Martin
Glad to hear you got a copy of Nick's video,,,great isn't it?
You can see where he pulls that stall over with one poi and then turns left into the reverse weave,,,too bad I can't remember where in the video it happens. but just stalling one is the key to transitioning into the weave family.

I hit on another one last night,,,I stole this from one of Wildfire's (the guys,and girl in Oklahoma) and that one is.....
From the reverse butterfly,,on the down swing,,,simply bounce one poi off your slightly raised foot,,,then turn 90 degrees,,,,instant spinning forward with your circles flat to the audience...I seem to have more success with this one spinning fast,,,still kind of akward though,,,but not as bad as when I first tried it out last summer.

Cheers David wave


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

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Location: at my PC....obviously!

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Posted:Hi,
Is it me or is this thread turning into a bit of a social chat between me and u?! Is there anyone else out there?!!
Anyway have u got any vids of yourself doing poi David? If so i would love to see em! I have one very brief and very old vid of myself done on a beach last summer......but i've learn't lots and lots since then.....it was back in the days of not knowing many tricks and hardly any transitions! Also how long have you been doing poi for? I originally saw poi at Glastonbury 2000 but only baught myself a set in 2002. For about 2 months after i got em i did some occasional practice but soon tired of hitting myself so kinda gave up! ubbcrying It wasn't untill Glasto 2003 that i got interested again and i've been learning and practicing since then. If u don't know Glasto is the last week-end of June so i've been learning for about 7 months or so in total but have no idea if i'm learning slow or not as i don't know anyone else who has done poi(apart from a mate of mine who i got into it!). Anyway me rambling again so i'll bid u farewell. wave
Laters, Martin. weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Armoured_Raven
GOLD Member since Nov 2003

Armoured_Raven

member
Location: LV, NV

Total posts: 35
Posted:Quote:
Hi,
Is it me or is this thread turning into a bit of a social chat between me and u?! Is there anyone else out there?!!


Yup, there's someone out there wave ... I just didn't want to interupt such interesting conversation. ubbangel
I recently discovered that you can get into the weave from the butterfly (and vise versa) just by opening it into a giant butterfly, it probably goes along with the stall suggestion, but since i've yet to discover stalls, i wasn't sure. But yeah, so for instance if i'm going at it in the forward weave I can just open my arms out like i was about to do a giant butterfly, then bring it in tight into a butterfly.
I also noticed that the turns and butterflies can all be linked in neat ways... same with the weaves and corkscrews. Basically, just by trying to discover what the 'moves' have in common, it has really helped me to transition them. weavesmiley


"I have no particular talent. I am merely inquisitive." -Albert Einstein

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hiya,,sorta seemed like it was just you and me there,,I'm hoping more will join in. I don't have any videos,,but if I can borrow a camera I want to shoot some footage,,,so I can see what I look like,,,,however,,I don't want to scare myself lol confused
I started spinning in Thailand last january,,came back to Canada,,took about three lessons,,,went back to Thailand,,drank a few of those huge nasty beers and started spinning with fire. (not that I advocate mixing fire and alcohol,,,but it sure helps with your confidence) I only new some very basic moves fw,rw, windmill, and a few turns but had lots of fun with them...I took more lessons when I again returned to Canada,and have been spinning almost every day since,,,you could say I'm hooked.

Twice a week in the summer we have fire spinning and drum circle, so I gots lots of practice with fire until the fire dept. shut us down in August,,,,too much of a fire risk,,,so I switched to LEDs on my poi,,some people went to glowsticks,,,some just spun in the dark,,and kept going

This time of the year it's just me,,spinning alone ,,, trying to figure out whats next,,,I want to find someone to spin with but so far haven't had any luck mad This dancing thing has really got me curious though,,what I'm doing is fun,,,but does it look stupid?? haha,,even the gay guys accoss the street are giving me a wide berth .

I tried those transitions ,,Armoured Raves,,,I like them,,in a previous post I said I was working on this "keeping circles flat to the audience" idea ie,,,audience in the north,,,therefore circles in an east west plane,,and thet transition from the butterfly to forward weave presents the weave head on,,somthing I'd neglected,,, never turning my circles 90 degrees,,thanks,,,now I have another "move" but going the other way,,,I find it easier to just lift them into the windmill while turning them 90,,, feels smoother for some reason,,,or use the corkscrew,,,,sheeeeesh,,Ramblemania

Have fun beerchug David


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

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Posted:Hi again guys,
sorry i aint been on in a while....been having some very strange things go on with this computer! (don't ask) Anyway as you said it would be very nice to find someone to practice with who knows what they are doing as the only ppl i've ever been able to practice with have been people i've got into poi or ppl that don't seem to know any more than i do. frown I suppose i get more of a sense of satisfaction out of learning stuff for myself but it would be nice to get taught some moves and avoid some of the painful trial and error stuff! Anyway i really aint been practicing much this week as it got real cold and wet out (don't mind just cold) and my kitchen is just too small to dance and move round in....it really limits any bigish moves and i'm fed up of replacing light bulbs! biggrin I think i may just make some more toys and leave heavy practice till it get less wet out.
Well it still seems awfull quiet on this thred even if we do have a new poster.....so anymore of u guys out there with useful suggestions? I do have one question myself...wtf are airwraps exactally? I'm sure i must do em but have never read a description for em so i dunno.....
Laters all smile
wave weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:ok
swift attempt at most basic airwrap. i'm veryvery sure this has been described somewhere else but i've never tried.
if this fails miserably try a search and a few thousand threads should come up wink


spin both poi in the same direction(both forwards towards the left side)

they should be in split time and separated enough so the poi heads almost clash directly in front of you.

make sure your planes are slightly wrong: the two poi together should make a slight 'v' . imagine you standing inside the v with it pointing away from you.

now bring your hands about 10 inches closer together and the poi strings should tangle. the most important thing then is to DO NOTHING AT ALL!!!!

if they don't at all then the first few steps were not followed(probably my fault)

if they do but the heads hit your arms then you brought them too close together.

if they do but the heads hit your stomach then your 'V' was to angled.

if you get it just right, then they tangle, change planes and exit. only on the exit do you need to start spinning again(the poi head momentum should see it through the airwrap)

i hope this helps.

R biggrin


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

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Location: at my PC....obviously!

Total posts: 580
Posted:hi,
thanks for the help....turns out i know nothing about this kinda move so i'm going to try it asap! Sounds like i'll be hitting myself lots in the nether regions for this one! What kinda moves can this be linked too and put in the middle of? Anyone got any vid links with this move in??

laters all smile


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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Pheonnexx
BRONZE Member since Dec 2003

member
Location: Plymouth, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:Hmmm i have been reading this post as i have i am pretty new here - and with poi. Just a question is it best to learn all the moves then learn how to transist and change to each one after or learn how to move smoothly to a next move as you learn each move ?

Hopefully you understand me ubbloco smile
~Hevz


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hiya Phoeonnexx

Welcome to the thread,,,Hope you're not getting confused by all that spewing I did above,,,all those transitions I've being going on about deal with changing the direction of only one poi and how to go from the weave family of "moves" to the butterfly family while keeping your circles in one plane.

In answer to your question.....YES,,,,start working on your transitions right away. This will allow you to keep moving rather than do a move,,,,,stop,,,,,do another,,,,stop,,,,,you get the picture. A good series to start with is fwd. weave,,,,turn 180 deg. into rev. weave,,,practice turning in both directions,,,get your windmill sorted and practice putting that in halfway through your 180 ,,, i.e. fwd weave,,,90 deg. turn to windmill,,,,then another 90 deg. to reverse weave. Throw in a few high/low turns, also 180s and hopefully you're away.

Good luck...Take Lessons if you can.....David weavesmiley


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Pheonnexx
BRONZE Member since Dec 2003

member
Location: Plymouth, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:Thanks,

There is so much to take in around here but thanks for the advice and i shall be trying that during what i now call my training hour lol.

What I am gonna do is try to get hold of some people down here in plymouth i noticed on the locator there are some, its just sometimes i get a bit shy asking people things rolleyes

But at least i know i am kinda starting the right way this is damned addictive. biggrin


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

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Posted:Hey Pheonnexx, good to hear from someone new! wave
Seems like i started learning the other way!! I used to know lots and lots a moves but didn't really know how to put em together!! This is why i started this thred because i was learning from a book(see first post) which understandably only teaches individual "tricks" and as a result only know "tricks"!! However it turns out that most of the tricks i know are actually transitions and when i realised that i discovered that i can mostly link all the stuff i know!! Useful eh....think the book was written with this in mind though. I highly reccomend getting yourself a copy....if for reference only cause it made me realise the dynamics of what i was doing which really helps because you instantly know if you are developing any bad habits!
I would suggest that learning the way i have makes it seem like you are not getting anywhere fast. Nothing looks good till it all links but i think in the end learning the way i have has made me more flexable(physically) and more dynamically aware of what i'm doing so the linking stuff is now coming naturally. It also has the reward of thinking you are getting nowhere fast to all of a sudden being able to do lots and lots of things all smoothly linked!(it shocked all my friends....i.e. damn u couldn't do all that last week!!!) biggrin
hope u have fun and do find some ppl to practice with as this really really helps even if you are teaching them!
Laters all, Martin smile weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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tennis
BRONZE Member since Jun 2002

confused and abused
Location: bristol

Total posts: 363
Posted:Just putting my thought in for you to play with. And i may be really patronising here so don't take it the wrong way. wink

When you do a weave or any trick in the weave family BOTH poi spin the same way.
When you do a butterfly trick or anything butterfly related the poi are spinning in OPPOSITE directions.

Therefore to change from one to another you simply need to find your own little ways (wraps, stalls, throws etc) of changing the direction of ONE poi and your there. In my opinion because of books and websites and so on everyone starts off on the same program of 'tricks' that transitions are a huge part of a person's individuality when it comes to spinning.

once i realised that it was just a matter of direction changes and then a play with planes i found ways of complicating and playing and making the transitions more complex and so on.

I hope that was useful in some way.

confusedTennis confused


My cat's breath smells like catfood

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Hiya Tennis
The direction changes are what I was hoping to share with Headswim up above it's just that the more I posted on this thread,,the more I realised I'd forgotten. I'm currently working on this "circles flat to the audience" theory i.e. if your audience is in the north,,keep your planes spinning in an east/west direction. The more I type,,the more I realise just how difficult and confusing it is to put poi "moves" into text. Some of the threads on this site have got me right confused,,,heck even some of my postings have me confused...Thanks for your input weavesmiley


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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

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Posted:Hey guys.....no posts in a while frown
Just thaught i would let u guys know i went out clubbing for my birthday last fri to an all-nighter in Manchester. Needless to say it was a mad night out but most importantly i think i managed to convert loads of people to POI!! I just took with me some of those battery powered glowsticks that HoP sells on the little bits of string they come with (so nothing to heavy!) and let rip on the dance floor!! The club i went to was a Goth/EBM/Dark electo/Rock venue and all the happy cyber goths loved em!! I spent the evening writing down the HoP addy for everyone to find out more info and also ended up teaching (very drunkenly) some basic poi to a few ppl. I really think alcohol helps loads with transitions and general flow cause i was going mental.....real loud pumping tunes also helped a lot!! wink All in all a great night and hopefully lots more ppl into poi!!
Laters all, Martin wave weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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HeadSwim
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

HeadSwim

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Posted:so anyone got any more ideas before i let this thred die? Last chance now ya'll! wink

laters smile weavesmiley


Nothing is easy.......until you can do it! biggrin

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