• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 100.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 123
DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Erm I'm sure it's on the board somewhere but I can't find it. Do you have to use finger spinning to do a 3 beat weave? If so, do you just hold the staffs normally when entering it cause I find the finger spin that seems necessary, very difficult?

Thanky


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete Topic

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:possible without a fingerspin, but it twists your wrists around horribly.
It's easier to do it follow-time, rather than split-time (which reminds me of Bovrilmonkey showing me follow-time 3-beat weave with poi yesterday, looks odd ) and really get the hang of doing staff crossovers first. Cos the timing has to be a little wonky with sticks to stop them clonking each other.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:By follow time do you mean keeping 'em parallel?

Hmmm, now you got me thinking about poi again


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:yup, parallel, in-time, rotating same direction.

although butterfly crossovers are easier than follow time crossovers with sticks, so it might follow that butterfly weave is easier than 3bt weave.

possibly...

Actually, split-timed double staffs are parallel as well. You have to quarter-time them to get them perpendicular.

Which i don't think i've even tried



where are my sticks!!!
*runs off into the distance*


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:erm simian, mate, what is to 'quarter time' sticks? thanks man!

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:halfway inbetween follow time (sticks parallel) and split time (sticks at 180' to each other) so the sticks stay at right angles to each other all perpendicular, like.

Any move with sticks held in a cross could be said to be quarter timed. Even tho its in one hand.

erm...



*clutches head*

[tantrum] ok, that does it. i'm done trying to talk about sticks. its all entirely internally inconsistent and rife with contradictory terminology. the words all mean everything and nothing. Language is for telling the other apes 'the biggest fruit is over there' and 'look out theres a mammoth' NOT for describing the intricate paths of twirly cylinders around the body. i'm going home and i'm taking my ball with me [/tantrum]


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:simian - just to spice things up a bit, split-time is usually the same as follow-time...

hence a 'cross-follow' (weave) is where one poi ( i think i just swore in the pole forum) follows the other across the body.

parallel is usually referred to just as 'parallel' or sometimes 'same time'.

with sticks there are still split-time and same time butterfly type moves but as you quite rightly pointed out, with both in the same direction, parallel is the same as split-time.

can i book myself in for a butterfly crossover lesson please...?
(missed you last night @ brixtonia man manu came again and this time he sat and watched me do poi )

eeeeeeeep.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Coleman...thank you for that. I was thinking the same thing myself...

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Delete

bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:nice one available with snakes.... think i showed some of you londners this last time i was down....


just have a play... and keep them same time. no time for lengthy explanations sorry...


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:[grump] I knever seen a full 3 beat weave with doubles, lots of two beats maskerading tho... [/grump]

one little advantage of sticks is that spinning quarter time is much easier (crosses to you )

the snake thing is beutifull, but well hard, one hand snakes (thumb-extension) and tother hand dosnt, they seperate for 1/2 (?) a beat then back parralel witht he opposite hand snakeing for the transition back.

T :grump:


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Delete

bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:but the snake-thing is 3-beat...? why the grump...is it cause you still haven't worked out the weather comment...?



Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:as three as it can be in parrelle i suppose.

And no, refer to poi moves for weathermen, im just grumpy today.

T :grump:


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Delete

bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:aaaaw (and other soothing noises...)


if you are really fussy and want to add more snakes then 5 and 7 beat ones happen too... just i think they are not pretty unless perfect so not on display yet...


R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Thought I'd drag this up again Rob....do you mean hold the staff and pretend it's a club and do normal sholder snakes in wheel plane...



The only way I've managed a 3 beat weave with doubles by doing it the same as poi but starting with the sticks between my 2 middle fingers making the finger roles way easier...


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete

Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:I think I can do the three beat with the snakes, but I dont get the extra beat versions...can you cast more light blue?

(and DSS if its the same move I'm doing its basically as you describe, shoulder snakes in wheel plane with the snakes used to do the lead change for the cross).


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Delete

bluecat


bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere

Total posts: 5300
Posted:oooooh [censored].

bump me in a day or two and i'll explain in length, or get one or two on vid.
probly the former.

wink


smileR


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:try this old thread on3-beat weaves



I'm just starting doubles again and I don't think u need to do finger spins. I'm trying it by using a double spin (4 beat?) on each side with doubles.



Hey Cole Quote:
...with both in the same direction, parallel is the same as split-time.

Wot u can't have split-time same direction moves with poles? wink











If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i guess you could argue that there is a difference between split and parallel time - parallel time would be same end of the staffs moving in time and split-time being opposite ends of the staffs moving in time.



my point was that both timings visually look very similar as they both have staffs spinning parallel to each other; hence the naming is quite confusing too.



quarter time is the one that looks really different although you rarely see people doing it with two hands, a one handed cross being the only quarter time move i see being spun regularly with double staffs.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:i was going to reply, but the reply went all mutated and i had to quarantine it.

And i didn't even get round to talking about quarter timing in it, which was the whole point when i started... rolleyes


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Quote:
my point was that both timings visually look very similar as they both have staffs spinning parallel to each other; hence the naming is quite confusing too.



Hi Cole, I think I'm might learn something here. I understand what u are saying, in that they could look similar because if u held one pole 180 deg ahead of the other it would still look parallel (I I).

Perhaps because I'm new to double, I may have I missed something because when I do doubles they look different to me. Like in parallel (chase the sun type move) u get poles going ( I I ) together, where as in split-time you get poles doing an ( X ) pattern. Then if u speed on pole up u would be back to ( I I), which would mean one wrist would be ahead of the other.

I think for the moment I will stick with poi/clubs stuff where u go from parallel time (chase the sun type move) to split-time (windmill) by speeding up one of the poles, until they are 1/2 beat apart. I think it gets confusing because poles have a wick at each end (180 deg apart) and a pole is always in split-time. So when u do the a split-time move u have 4 wicks and that looks like 1/4 time confused confused confused





If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:It's just a question of terminology.

Keeping consistent with poi terminology (which helps avoid confusion more than create it) means that in split time the rotation of one stick is 180degrees further on than the other, and they are parallel.

In parallel time the rotation is the same, and they are still parallel. That doesn't mean split and parallel time are the same with doubles though. Just the sticks are in the same position.

Crosses (offset by 90 degrees) are quarter time, just like spinning poi at 90 degrees.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:I understand all the timings (and can do the 2 beat) but I still can't manage the 3 beat without fingers. I went back over that old thread and it didn't help. I hadn't really been giving it too such effort (without fingures) up until yesterday but I gave it a few minutes last night to no avail...

frown



I might give it another while cause it might just click in but I still want to know about these shoulder snakes. cool



Do they actually cross each other at any stage or does left hand stay left and right hand stay right (next to each other). Where does the throw off fit into the pattern? I presume you can only do these with match sticks otherwise how do you avoid impaling your heart on circle one.



ubbidea

Or is it that say while doing snake circle one with right hand, your doing circle 2 (with the left hand) and both sticks miss you on your left hand side.... and then circle 2 right hand it done with throw off on left hand and repeat or something like that....



Man if that's it, it sounds really sweet... *yummy yummy* or is it man overboard here confused



I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:stuff about the Doubles 3 beat i know of...

Matchsticks or long arms are indeed necessary.
and the staffs do cross, or it wouldn't be a three beat weave would it?

Its very similar to parallel 3bt weave with poi. ever tried it? its an education...
Needs lots more placement than split time

But if you've got weave and butterfly 2beat crossovers with doubles you should be cool
(wierd how cross is easier innit?)

There's a very odd feel to it as you slide the rotating parallel lines over, under and around each other.

i cannot do this well, but have seen it on a few occasions.
was first showed it by Claire, Ogre\Tim's girlfriend
only seen it looking really smooth once, by Dantana(?) on Dio's booty vid(?) i thiiiink.
although possibly he was using fingerspins, or it was all in my head.

The usual disclaimers for possible stupidity and wrongness apply ubbangel


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Yea, obviously they have to cross... it's I think the last paragraph I wrote is the snake version. I say version cause my understanding is that it's different to a normal 3 beat? oh and possible super cool biggrin

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete

simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:er, trying to work out description.

you're talking about a kind of isolated weave, with the staff held toward one end, thumb facing outward. yes? or no?

IF SO...

can't think of a way of crossing hands like you describe (on left side, left hand inside, right hand outside) without hand-arm clashes during the circle though.

oh yes i can. doh! parallel (not split) timed. i think. yeah.

You wouldn't need big sticks for that. But with small sticks you could mix in isolated buzzsaw thingys too.

Seen a guy who was possibly King of Bongo or possibly Trees and Beetles doing nice double staff isolations inside and outside the arms, buzzsaw stylee.
Dromepixie can do that too (after i told her she should ubbangel )

Hey, you could cross your arms like you can (well, like Cole can rolleyes ) with poi isolated buzzsaw. (is that "inverted" or something else?) You'd need actual matchsticks or the arms of an orangutan to do it comfortably though.

on a totally unrelated note - quarter timed isolations (with poi or stick) look gorgeous ubblove
Jonny Moohaahaa used to do them quite a bit, but i've never been sure if it was on purpose umm


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

Delete

DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:What I said mightn't make any sense. I'm sitting here holding a pen and a ruler like clubs, trying to do discrete snakes at my desk and trying to imagine there's another half to the object (making it a staff) and still see where they fit. ubbloco

I'm kinda speculating, hoping that one of the 2 to mention the snakes (Josh or Rob)'ll come back and explain 'em. ubbangel


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete

coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i was wondering that too - seems like they would be cool until you twist up enough to have to throw off which would be ridiculous with 5' staffs ubblol

must be something to do with the crossover untwisting the snakes so you never get to the point where you have to throw off...

will ask rob to demonstrate later and if he hasn't replied already, i'll get back to ya tomorrow.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Nice one dude biggrin

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

Delete

coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i was like this close --> || to remembering to ask rob about this earlier.



but then i forgot frown



sorry man.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Delete

Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:DSS the bit in the old thread that I thought was of value was the bit by funkenflug.

Quote:
..The learning process is rather simple, too!
(but not easy, im afraid, and it takes some time). As Stone already said elsewhere in this thread, start by gripping your staffs at the end and do the weave.(Do yourself a favour and use rather short staffs when first trying this). This shouldnt present too much of a problem for experienced twirlers (yes, good poi-technique helps a lot here, even better yet if you have some club-swinging experience). Now while doing the weave, slowly change your grip by allowing your fingers to slip towards the center of the staffs for a few inches. Concentrate on keeping up the weaving motion you started out with pretty much undisturbed by this subtle grip-change. This is not easy at first. You will notice that the "short end" of the staffs is very much in the way, but persist and the move will get smoother rather quickly. Now when you have the basic technique down your aim is to increase little by little the "short end" of the staffs while at the same time keeping the move fluid and avoid collisions of the staffs and body hits-ouch (Its all in the wrists!!) When you manage to grip the staffs dead center and still weave them - success!
Take a time out to pat yourself on the shoulder and then graduate to longer staffs.
Speaking from experience, weaving 1.2 m doubles is perfectly possible and looks quite smooth. Im still practicing on my 1.5m performance staffs and im quite convinced ill get it to work eventually, its just a matter of time and persistent practice.
Have fun trying the move!, by funkenflug



I think if people are using snakes to complete a weave then they are probably doing a double on each side. Ive been trying the double on each side but without the snake. If U want to learn more about snakes then see Anna Jillings site on clubs and poles look under Club Swinging.

Just a note before I go back into hibernation. I think it is confusing to talk about it split and parallel time because, imho, they both describe different things. Like u can have parallel and alternating moves in same or split time. In the poi world, is there not an alternating, split-time butterfly. CU smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

Delete

Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3289
Posted:will reply with description of 3 beat with the alternating snake tonight when I have more time to analysis. Katinca is cracking the whip to get ready to go out... wink

Josh



--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Delete

Page: 123

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [3 beat weave double*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Learn > POI > 3 poi weaves > 3 beat spit opp. superman weave *help/resource
2. Learn > POI > 3 poi weaves > 3 beat superman weave *help/resource
3. Learn > POI > Advanced Weaves > augmented seven beat weave variation *help/resource the augmented seven beat weave is a combination of the...
4. Learn > POI > Hybrids > Spin vs Antispin 3 beat weave *help/resource
5. Learn > Staff > Double Staff > Isolated 3 Beat Weave *help/resource a tutorial explaining the isolated 3 beat weave  which is as close as it...

     Show more..