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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:well. let me start by agreeing with knagi- DON'T use straight coleman fuel, as it is HIGHLY EXPLOSIVE! mix it in with lamp oil as this will make it a heavier molecule, less vapour. plus coleman fuel sticks to your body when doing wraps. mix in as much lamp oil as you can, when indoors you can try to find a balance as the lamp oil makes a little smoke. i do 50/50. when outdoors i just use straight ultra pure lamp oil. don't use kerosine ever, after a few years and some lung problems you'll inderstand why. also be aware that if using fire indoors you want NO FUEL slinging off. usually the smelly clothes will piss off people, and sometimes people wear highly flammable clothes. my friend walked past a candle and within 5 seconds her whole body was immersed in flame. she survived only through prayer, magic, and serious burn hospital care. so i would recommend using a 50/50 lamp oil coleman mix to soak your wicks. always soak OUTSIDE as people smoke cigarrettes and this can suck if they are anywhere near your fuel. sling them out, and then pat them down with a dry towel. and if your wicks are evaporating out make them BIGGER! bigger is better! or are you afraid of fire?(he asked, in a teasing tone.) and remember, always have your fuel outside! if your wicks are big, they will keep for over 15 minutes and still light right up.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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frodus


member
Location: roanoke, VA

Total posts: 92
Posted:I used straight coleman
let the wicks sit in fuel for 10 min
swung them out
let them sit for 10 min
and lit them
they caught easily, but not explosive

i did my whole routine, a couple wraps, and mostly weaves, butterflies, windmill, jumps, 360 degree turning weave etc

and it seemed all great!
i'm still gonna mix some of the lap oil in it, just to be safe for indoor


Peace,Travis IM: frodus17

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:yeah, by explosive i meant the fuel itself, namely the soaking area, not the wick. altho i bet if you had some soaked wicks in a container they would build up enough gas to pop, too. glad you like it! and the lamp oil will help as your routine gets longer, as coleman burns out fast.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:oh and also most fire marshalls will freak if they know you are using coleman fuel, for that very same reason.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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frodus


member
Location: roanoke, VA

Total posts: 92
Posted:there is an outdoor place we're using for the fueling area and spinoff
we're carying the torches in on a rack in a metal container, setting it offstage
we'll be there with 2 extinguishers, and 2 towels on a wide stage

we've been practicing all week to make sure things are ok!


Peace,Travis IM: frodus17

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coryskawaffle


newbie


Total posts: 1
Posted:i have a big question, a technical question, a question burning in my mind....

are there any fuels that are flammable liquids, but non-flammable vapors? if so, what?


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Real_Zeke
BRONZE Member since Jul 2006

Member
Location: Odense

Total posts: 12
Posted:I always used pure lamp oil, but the flames are not so big, and if i spin too fast it will go out. Would it be any good to make a 50/50 mix with this Coleman fuel? And would the flames get any bigger?

I know im suppose to write something here... So this is it.

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Mordfabrik
SILVER Member since Sep 2006

member
Location: Edmonton

Total posts: 31
Posted:Lamp oil is exceptionally expensive here in E-town unfortunately, but there's an industrial fuel depot near my house strangely enough, and they do carry most types of fuels, and do offer smaller deals to people like us.

Can you suggest any other compounds to use with this kind of accessibility, or should we pretty much simply accept the cost of the lamp oil?

Right now we're using Kerosene, which I dont particularily enjoy.


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Real_Zeke
BRONZE Member since Jul 2006

Member
Location: Odense

Total posts: 12
Posted:How much is expensive? I use non smoking lamp oil, and i pay like 1 eoru for a liter. Is that cheap or expensive to what you pay?

I know im suppose to write something here... So this is it.

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Sparkfire


Fire coach - Cirque du Soleil
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:.
EDITED_BY: Pyroptix (1196216564)


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Mordfabrik
SILVER Member since Sep 2006

member
Location: Edmonton

Total posts: 31
Posted:Well, according to this conversion chart, 1 euro is about $1.40 canadian.

Lamp oil is about 5-5.50/l here, making it between 3-4x more expensive.


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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Mordfabrik...get the 4 liter jugs...Waaaaay cheaper that way.

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Real_Zeke
BRONZE Member since Jul 2006

Member
Location: Odense

Total posts: 12
Posted:Hmm yeah that is quite expansive compared to what i pay :S
But yes, 4 liter jugs might be a bit cheaper

1. I always use pure lamp oil, but the flames are not so big, and if i spin too fast it will go out. Would it be any good to make a 50/50 mix with this Coleman fuel? And would the flames get any bigger?


I know im suppose to write something here... So this is it.

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: Pyroptix


I've updated my list of preferred fuels and would like to share in the spirit of health.
I have recently found out some fuels MSDS's list's carcinogenic potentials with long term exposure.
as listed below in order of preferance:



Thanks for the research, Pyroptix: here are some comments on your comments:


SHELL - Shellsol T (burns clean, seems the cleanest)

Yep, the classic Aussie FireSol FireWater etc... it's nice stuff alright. Supply seems to come and go, hence us getting into d60 up here these days. That and the non-dangerous goods classification...

Sarasol 40 (same applies to Sarasol 75 below, both seem to burn clean)

Judging by the numbers, one would have a flashpoint considerably higher than the other (that's often what the number means)

MOBIL - Solvent 3440 (havn't tried it, dont have MSDS)

This is almost exactly the same as KsolT and Isopar G

BP - Solvent 11 (havn't tried it, dont have MSDS)
We have tried it here, it was heavier and smellier and we didn't like it much)

EXXON - Isopar G (havn't tried it, dont have MSDS)
Had a few drums of this. No problems (see above)

Secondary options
Sarasol 75 (same as Sarasol 40 above)
see above

Shellsol D60 (it stinks)
...
d60 smells like insecticide if it hasn't been deodorised. The undeodorised batch we had also was smoky, really different to the usual. Ask your chemical supplier to deodorise it for you. That involves putting a tiny amount of another aromatic compound (15ml in 20litres) One time Ry had a tiny bit more put in and it actually smelled pretty.. *I love the smell of d60 in the morning*

Shellsol D70 (same as D60)

We found at least one batch of d70 was noticably 'heavier' than d 60, though there is only a small difference in flashpoint, there did seem to be a difference in pleasantness.
Happy burning!


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: coryskawaffle


i have a big question, a technical question, a question burning in my mind....

are there any fuels that are flammable liquids, but non-flammable vapors? if so, what?


Yes there are, and they are often produced for industrial solvents, lubricants etc. d60 is a good example of that. It burns well but does not produce a hazardous vapour... it is not classed as 'dangerous to transport' here and people have even been allowed to take in on planes...

Many of the compounds in Pyroptix's list above are not normally sold in local shops as fuel, but by industrial chemical supply companies. It has taken a bit of research and relationship building to get the local company to sell small ( 20 litres) quantities to us spinners. They know what we want to use it for and are helpful about suggesting products if they are out of stock of one or another.

It is worth building up this sort of relationship with a supplier.

The US Coleman's / white gas fuel sounds mad to us here cos it is so volatile, but at least (I am told) it burns very clean... (I have seen a few Yanks discomforted when their wicks had black sooty stuff on them after using other things!) eek

Possibly the nastiest fuel I ever was around was the rubbish they were burning at the EJC this year yeck.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:we need to use different fuel in the UK. Shellsol T sounds like the bomb! This is going to be my next mission.

Thanks gabe and pyroptix!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted:sounds great.


now where can we get it :-/

and can we get a chemist in here?
burns / smells clean can go for a lot of things that are ungodly harmful too!


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted: Written by: Yakumo


burns / smells clean can go for a lot of things that are ungodly harmful too!



Indeed. In fact this has been discussed heaps in many threads. Which is why Pyroptix included some info on potential harm in this thread.


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Sparkfire


Fire coach - Cirque du Soleil
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:Cheers gabe,

Good to know re: Solvent 11.

Yep the SolT is aparantly only made by one manufacturing plant in spain and when they shut down for annual maintenance the supply just basically stops.

Just about to have a new shipment hit victorian shores this weekend.

The Sarasol seems to be used for a wider range of industries, is cheaper and burns clean with an easy light, even the 75 varient, which should come under the same non DG classification as D60.
I havn't tried it in really cold weather tho'. And the skin tumor promotion is a little off putting eek. But the same goes for D60. Give the sarasol a try, might save you inhaling the added aromatics.

I might see if i can find Isopar G down here. It is a little more expensive but probably the best backup for SolT shortages.

Going to be using the Iso G for a show up your way with Ness in a couple weeks! Yeah couldn't find a supplier up there who would do a 20L drum. Getting the client to order from gooble ended up being the easiest way.


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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Really?
PM follows


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted:http://www.shellchemicals.com/msds/
br>
Shell's Material safety data sheets (MSDS) search (in case any of these direct links die)

http://www.euapps.shell.com/MSDS/Downloa...00879_GB_EN.rtf
br>their GB/English data sheet for shellsol T

http://www.euapps.shell.com/MSDS/Downloa...01000_GB_EN.rtf
br>
their BG/english data sheet for C113 SHF Paraffins for comparrison (I don't know enough (yet) to say if that's the same as paraffin you buy in hardware stores)

Sarasol 40 is listed as restricted, and there isn't a listing for GB,

their India/english rtf is : http://www.euapps.shell.com/MSDS/Downloa...02982_IN_EN.rtf


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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted:Shellsol T specific concerns from the above 3 documents -



particular things to note / query with reference to other fuels, these stand out from the MSDS.



"Environmental Hazards

: May cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment. "



which couples with later on : "Prevent from spreading or entering drains, ditches or rivers by using sand, earth, or other appropriate barriers. "



"Do not empty into drains"



"Notify authorities if any exposure to the general public or the environment occurs or is likely to occur. "



"Avoid prolonged contact with natural, butyl or nitrile rubbers."



much of this people assume for paraffin anyway (apart from the rubber which needs thought for performance) but it is more important to consider that these are being specifically mentioned in the shellsolT msds and not the paraffin.




EDITED_BY: Yakumo (1160499268)


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Sparkfire


Fire coach - Cirque du Soleil
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 89
Posted:parrafin will expand rubber grommits/silicon/seals as well.
Araldite is the only thing I've found to be parrafin/Solt/genral fuel resistant

heat resistant too. You can actually araldite wicks on


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Yakumo
SILVER Member since May 2006

Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire

Total posts: 1237
Posted:sent some MSDS's to a chemist friend of mine :

 Written by:

My not-very-expert opinion follows. Hope it makes some sense. All of these products are hydrocarbons, so the main differences are in the length of the carbon chains and whether or not they are fully hydrogenated. Alkanes are the fully hydrogenated low-reactivity part and the alkenes are more reactive. If you look at section 2 of the paraffin MSDS, you will see that the alkenes are the more harmful component. The Sarasol is all alkanes so is probably better, even if if does seem to have a more detailed description of the hazards on the MSDS.

Shellsol T and TK are essentially the same thing as each other (100% of CAS No. 64741-65-7) and contain longer carbon chains. This means they will be less flammable, but also less harmful for your skin. I don't really know much about the effects on the lungs.

All of these products will tend to strip oils from the skin and skin contact should be avoided. R38 and R66 refer to effects on the skin. The heavier oils will tend to linger in the aquatic environment and cause damage, so have R53 listed (the lighter ones evaporate instead).



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