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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Well, I've been meaning to get a definitive thru-wrap thread started. I know I had some questions about them a while back and I've been playing with them for the last few weeks and Dom had some words of wisdom about them. I'm not even sure how many of y'all do them.

For those not in the know:
A 'Thru-wrap' is not a 'recoil wrap' where the poi runs out of chain and smacks against you and reverses direction. It is a wrap where the poi ALMOST do that, then you pivot your body to unwrap the chains before they have a chance to do that.

So far I've got...

Forearm Weave Thru-wraps: Which enable crazy things like 9 beat weaves and such. You can either wrap on only one arm on both sides (giving an even beat count) or switch arms between each rotation (giving odd beat counts.)

Forearm Butterfly Thru-wraps: So wrap one arm while butterflying, turn 180 degrees and unwrap in reverse buttefly. I actually find reverse => forward much easier. Note: when I tangle in this one I REALLY tangle making it a bit sketchy to do with fire.

Forearm Corkscrew wraps: Seems very easy to wrap a wrist while in the bottom half of a corkscrew, then bring it above your head to unwrap.

Neck wraps: Bring your hand to your neck, wrap while leaning forward, lean your head back and unwrap.

I understand (but can't yet do) every variation of the above in every direction. Forward, backwards, left arm, right arm, etc...

Are there any I'm forgetting?

[Sorry, I don't have time to explain the moves to those who don't yet know it but perhaps I'll go back and give instructions for each. I just wanted to see if there were any genres that I was forgetting. I guess I could get some legs involved but that sounds a bit crazy and spaztic.... Hrmmm... ]


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:There are bicep and thigh through wraps where if you're doing a low wave/chase the sun type of move you can wrap around the limb then move the limb back so the poi comes off on the opposite side of your body...

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Jello


ambiguous
Location: Mpls, MN, USA

Total posts: 646
Posted:interesting concepts, thanks

_________________________________
Fuzzy Dice.......................................

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Aalathea
GOLD Member since Oct 2002

member
Location: Massachusetts, US

Total posts: 80
Posted:not sure if this one counts or what you'd call it, but someone (sorry, i forget who ) did it in COL3. its that double stall between the legs, one poi from the front and one from behind, but then he turned while they were stalling.
would this be a thru-stall then if you want to get technically-like?
think its sorta the same principle though.


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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:The butterfly push thru mixes sweetly with waist-wrap butterflys.

BTB BTF Push-Thru Waist-Wrap ( ): from behind the back reverse butterfly, wrap the right poi on your left bicep , bring your left arm infront (the chain/rope from the right poi will slip down the left arm and recoil at your elbow) and recoil to waist-wrap forward butterfly.

I hope that makes sense. How easily the description of poi moves flows off the tongue

Nice thread


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Wait, time out. Firemorph, a waist wrap isn't a thru-wrap. In fact, it isn't a wrap at all. I was informed that it just got that name from club twirling.

In a thru-wrap the chain actually wraps around the body part a full rotation as if you were going to handcuff one's self... then, by pivoting one's body the chain is unwound from the body part.

In a recoil wrap, the chain wraps all the way around, then hits the body part and exits in the other direction. For a list of THOSE kinds of wraps, see the lessons section.

It looks like I'll have to play a bit with some thigh thru-wraps. Messing up those could be painful... wish me luck.


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Yes, let's go.
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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:i think firemorph was describing a push-thru wrap (albeit with a questionable use of the word 'recoil' to confuse us all ).

if this wasn't a push-thru wrap, the poi would end up in a weave waist wrap but like morph says, they end up in a fwd bf.

i think the waist wrap bit refers to where your arms are when the bf is in front - ie. the bf is in front of you but with your right arm btb (waist wrap style).

if you replace the word 'recoil' with 'pivot' in the original post, it all makes perfect sense.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Taniwha


member
Location: Aotearoa

Total posts: 138
Posted:Yea, i hope that is right, otherwise im totally confused. You can do wrist raps with/ or without "recoil".

Actually, wrist wraps are the oldest known traditional poi move, next to elbow wraps and forarm recoils (short poi).

I think this whole naming thing is going to far, i mean its 1 think to define a move but to keep adding names for variations only leads to more confusion. Its becoming a whole new language which soon will become ELITE. Causeing newbes to give up before they even learn 9bt btb rev weave wraps with recoil into maxi + hyp and tosted nose puppy.

Sorry off topic: back to thru wrps :-

[ 09. April 2003, 21:48: Message edited by: Raging Dragon ]


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:C'mon! I know I'm sure there are people out there pushing the envelope in the thru-wrap direction.

Glass?

Dom?

PK?

Where those UK boyz when you need them.

SOMEBODY'S got to be the thruwrap jedi... Cuz I certainly ain't.


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:So uh raging dragon what do you suggest? I don't see how any other form of communicating poi moves verbally runs less of a risk of becoming 'elite'. We can useo descriptive abreviatians and simple nomenclature which anyone can understand with a a crash course in poi terms or we can use names people make up as they invent moves. So instead of a nice reasonable package like "5bt BF weave" we have something like "Big ben and the 3 musketeers"

It's a lot harder to remember and communicate a name that barely or not at all describes the move.
Also if two people invent a move at the same time both names get used and it makes for huge confusion or fighting over which name is 'right'.

Or are you just agaisnt developing new moves and think we should stick to simple easily understandable moves so we don't scare off newbies?

[ 10. April 2003, 10:38: Message edited by: Astar ]


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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:NYC skunk made a cool move that I think is a 5 beat weave and you finish the last beat under the leg (thigh) in a thru-wrap. Looks pretty slick.

I think with thru-wraps you need to be really graceful to do it anywheres lower then the thigh or it looks really bad.


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:leliel, the move you are talking about was also done by skunk.

I think NYC mentioned this, but just to be thurough, you can thru-wrap during a weave on the left arm right side or right arm right side, or visa versa,

and you can thru-wrap on the same poi hand (left poi left hand, left poi left arm, etc.)


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hmm... Skunk's my boy. I wouldn't call any of the stuff he does (even the stuff you haven't seen) wraps... He certainly doesn't go a full rotation and probably not even a half.

Still thinkin and playin'...


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:yes, but you can make most of those things he does wrap, it is just a matter of possition and timing. most of them are on the boarder of wraping anyways, with a little tweaking they could be a thru-wrap very easily.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Astar:
So uh raging dragon what do you suggest?
...
are you just agaisnt developing new moves and think we should stick to simple easily understandable moves so we don't scare off newbies?

i'm pretty sure thats about as far from the truth as you could get astar!

i can see both sides of the point here.
personally, i like to invent names for combos (although i usually keep them to myself) and stick to the abbreviations for the rest.

we need this language to allow us to talk about moves without having to explain them in full everytime.
saying no abbreviation at all is crazy - you can't call it a right hand 2bt weave; you have to say its a split-time figure of eight cross-over with right hand leading.

its a bit like skating - if the normal naming conventions don't fit, make up a name but whenever you can, keep it simple.
so worrying about scaring off newbies with the language isn't a problem i don't think.
new skaters aren't bothered that they don't know what a ssbsts is or the first thing about how to nail one but that doesn't matter yet cos they're still learning to ollie up kerbs.
even if they did know what it was, they couldn't really attempt it yet.
the important point is by the time they can attempt it, they will likely have known what it is for a long time beforehand.

this is probably a topic for its own thread though so i may well delete this and dump it somewhere far more appropriate. sorry nyc.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:It's a good side conversation guys... but back on topic:

Can I safely assume that no one here has any profound, new thru-wraps and I should just play with myself until I find my own?



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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Oh... and for leg wraps you need REALLY long chains to not recoil... Circumferance being 2*pi*r and all it needs much more chain than I normally spin with. Maybe ankles? Though that looks pretty spaztic...

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tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:BTB wrist thru-wraps: easiest in wall plane. If its your left arm that your stretching behind your back, wrap the right poi on your left wrist and turn about 90' anticlockwise, and it unwraps nicely...

Elbow thru-wrap: 5bt forwards, poi on your right, wrap the same beat as you would for your wrist, but just above elbow level... it travels right round you arm, does a quick beat, now turn 90' anticlockwise and it does another small circle on the other side before unwrapping.


--Ben


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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:well, I DID get the forward butterfly double neck wrap, on tape, last night, that is a thru wrap that is very profound and not yet mentioned (on this thread) i'll put it up on the next tutorial video...

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:not yet mentioned...?

quote:Originally posted by NYC:
Neck wraps: Bring your hand to your neck, wrap while leaning forward, lean your head back and unwrap.have you tried it one handed yet dan...?

i tried a single neck wrap with a yo-yo on tuesday. guess what happened...?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:Apologies 4 the recoil confusion folks A sweet move tho.

I've not tried it yet, but how's about a btf thro-wrap thro the legs > unwrap > re-wrap > 180 step-over so that you finish facing the the opposite direction. Ok, it's more of a combo.

I find butterfly thro-wraps work better by using a TTN movement for the arm the poi is wrapping on, allowing it to wrap along your arm.

@ Yo-Yo wrap!



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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:hmmmmmm.... one handed butterfly double neck thru-wrap.....ok, I'll try it.... ...but are you going to help me pay for the hospital bill?

Seriousely, the double kneck wrap is SO hard to get right, it requires lots of skill and speed to get right, but a one handed variation shouldn't be that much harder...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Taniwha


member
Location: Aotearoa

Total posts: 138
Posted:All i mean is why not call thru wraps just wraps, and recoils just recoil wraps, or vice versa. Cause at the mo we have no WRAPS, just thru wraps, and recoil wraps. Dont u think thats making it MORE complicated than it needs to be???

Sorry again, back to wraps.


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:dragon - i think the fact that we add thru or recoil onto the front clears up any ambiguity.

usually when someone says just 'wrap', they usually mean recoil wrap - i guess because they're more common and there's hundreds more of them than there are thru wraps.

dan - just goes to show there are no hard or easy moves - it all just depends on the individual
bugger ever doing this with fire though!


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Taniwha


member
Location: Aotearoa

Total posts: 138
Posted:Im going to try to be constructive here, and stick to THRU-wraps. I love them, they allow for endless possiblities, just depends on the length of string.

My new fav : btb turning weave but turn hands untill the poi are in front of you but your still doing btb(in front wall plane), and u wrap them up and then turn and un-wrap before it can recoil. Love it.

Also 9bt reverse corkscrew wraps are fun.
And btb weave wraps. I love them all. Even if they tangle, cause u can always hyploop out.

[ 12. April 2003, 12:12: Message edited by: Raging Dragon ]


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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tenticle


tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:

Total posts: 275
Posted:Calf thru-wraps: Put your hand near your knee, with your calf sticking out so the poi can wrap it, then you kind of kick it off on the other side... not a very thorough description, i know.
They look quite weird, like an upsidedown figure 8 if you can keep the other poi at about waist level.

--Ben


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Le Skunk


member
Location: NYC, New York, USA

Total posts: 84
Posted:ah NYC has not seen me practice lately apparently...

maybe next week i shall show you some leg thru wraps, currently also working on arm wraps and simultaneous use of both. by arm wraps i do not mean wrapping around one extended arm with the other poi (like you do in the rusty video NYC) but bending your arm at the elbow and wrapping the poi from the same hand around that bent arm and then turning to unwrap. so maybe we should distinguish between the 2 by calling those bad boys elbow wraps...those are much harder than thigh wraps because of the tapered shape you get when you bend your arm like such, the chain (at least my ball chain) wants to slip off instead of simply unwrap...

anyway, play with that NYC that is sure to keep you busy while my resprained knee (injured while having sex) heals...

maybe next week we can have another 2 days where the weather goes above 40 so we don't freeze our nutzelZ off. wtf is up with this goddam weather has it been this wacky everywhere? seriously i was not aware of New York's arctic climate until this year i thought it was supposed to be spring in april....

peax

skunk


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iop


member
Location: London

Total posts: 35
Posted:i'm not quite sure what a thru wrap is but i think - i think that i kind of use it to do a seven beat weave

If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving isn't for you!

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Posted:yeah as da Skunk points out, if you are looking for difficult thru wraps try the high wave (as opposed to low wave?) to double same arm thru wraps...a bit tricky, but there is a whole world of funky break beat poi in there

erm - you can also do the above move alternating, just wraping the front of body poi for the transition from front of bodyto back of body. it makes it easier to learn this way, rather than trying to contend with doing both at the same time.

Has anyone one got this double move happening with a reverse action on one hand and a forward action on the other (with clubs this would be called 'parallel' action)?

thru wraps also work on the lower leg (forward and backwards etc)...Its a rope dart technique.

Josh


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I actually just tried that "same arm wrap" with a chain whip a bit ago. You need REALLY long chains to pull that off but that's the direction I'm looking in anyway if I want to keep playing with thru-wraps.

[Desperately trying not to "Be like Skunk" but thinking that perhaps just lengthening my chains might not quite make me yet another wannabe.]

Oh, and injuring your knee during sex over Passover? That CAN'T be kosher.


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Jaeden
GOLD Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Edmonton

Total posts: 220
Posted:My chains are the length of my arms. You can do the same arm thru-wrap with chains no longer than that.

You just have to bring your hand all the way to your shoulder and wrap under your armpit.


The world is not out to get you but if you fight it you will be eaten alive

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