Chotys
member

Member Since: 15th Jul 2001
Total posts: 91
Posted:Ok everyone, we all know that fuels such as kerosene are the safest fuels to use when firebreathing but has anyone thought that even when you don't swallow any you are still absorbing it through the membranes of your mouth? Scary thought considering a have firebreathed with kero before. So what fuels are people using to firebreath and are they carcinogenic or not?thanx:Chotys:

Delete Topic

pj
member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Member Since: 8th May 2001
Total posts: 277
Posted:Uh, it's pretty scary that people would put kero/lamp oil in their mouths without knowing that a fair bit of it will soak right into your bloodstream. And despite what you think, you will always swallow some of the residue in your mouth after a blast.The reality is that fire spinning is a far safer activity than most people believe. Sure, you might get a first or maybe a second degree burn and it might hurt for a few days, but aside from maybe a small scar there is no real permanent damage done.Fire breathing comes with *at* *least* the following risks:1. severe facial burns2. short term poisoning -- have Pele tell you how sick she got from swallowing just one shot of kero.3. long term poisoning -- It is a known fact that repeated exposure to hydrocarbons, either by breathing the vapors or by contact with the skin, *will* increase your risk of cancer.Does that keep me from doing it? Of course not. I know the risks and I accept them for what they are. Just like I know the risks of motorcycling, free climbing and smoking. Everything has risks. The intelligent person is one who knows the risks on an activity, knows how to reduce the risks, and can determine an acceptable level of risk.Just because some of us have decided to accept the risks of fire manipulation, others should by no means assume that it is safe!-p.

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:pj, xeastrel, skichristian and others can all tell you that i go through the description of what it will do to you before I taught them. I agree with pj, anyone who goes into this uneducated is really not going into safely.Until someone experiments with biodeisel and breathing, there are no non-carcinogenic fuels. They are combustible chemicals, that should tell you that anything we do using these fuels is toxic, whether spinning or breathing/eating or trailing.Fire breathing is ***the most dangerous*** of the fire arts. The risks of blowbacks, of drips and flows, fuel sickness and poisoning are very real, and those are the immediate effects. Long term it can lead to lung damage, liver and kidney damage, esophogeal and tracheal damage, skin and topical damage, to name a few. These are risks, not absolutes. People have also died from this, in horrible ways..from burning their lungs to chemical pnuemonia.As for the fuel toxicity...kerosene is bad, lamp oil is less. However, if you get the lamp oil with coloring the toxicity level increases and the worst for you is the lamp oil that is labelled as smokeless and odorless.For more information please use the search button and enter fire breathing...you will find tonnes of topics there. I am writing the faq still in my limited spare time.As you might be able to tell, fire breathing is my baby, and so I accept the risks with an overdone amount of caution. There are people who have been doing this for 30+ years who are still healthy and kicking. It is a risk and only you can decide whether or not you are willing to take it.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Oh...and from swallowing less than a shot I was rendered absolutely useless for a day and a half with severe stomach cramping, nauseau, vomiting, fever and sweats, headache....it was not pretty. I did all of the steps to counter the effect but it was just enough fuel that nothing but time worked. I didn't have the over the counter charcoal caplets at the time...I do now..all the time. The day I should've been the most sick....over 33 blows in less than 5 hours I took two of those after the second or third set and I was fine, other than tired. I strongly recommend eating before breathing as well as a bit after and having charcoal caplets on hand, just in case.Health to all,------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:why don't you guys use ethanol (everclear, grain alcohol, moonshine, ethyl alcohol, etc)?It is VERY flamable, you can mix in a little water (or other beverage for color) (151 proof works) and if you swallow any all you get is drunk! when it absorbs through your mouth you get drunk also. about the only draw back is the fact that you have to have a chaser after every spit, and after a while your tounge gets numb (time to quit for the night)

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Santanatwo...oh let me count the whys...not to use alcohol that is...1)**Because you get drunk**. If something goes wrong with a performance and I am found drunk...I lose my insurance and become liable for all damage. Not to mention I have seen people spin impaired, and whether or not they think they looked good, they were off kilter, tripping, hitting themselves and just looked bad. No offense but in my opinon doing anythng with fire while under the influence is just irresponsible and dumb.2) Alcohol *is* toxic...it's why drinkers suffer liver and kidney,and that is from beer, usually worse in the long run than lamp oil blowers. Now imagine the damage of long term use of high proof alcohol. Blow too much with high proof alcohol and you run the risk of alcohol poisoning, charcoal caps can't negate that one...it is a hospital visit for certain.3)Alcohol burns hotter, does not aspirate as well and does not produce as nice of a billowing flame as lamp oil/kerosene. Therefore there is more chance of a burn to you with alot less to show for it.4) Put too much water in it and all you will successfully do is put out your torch.5)It has a low flash point. That is, a fast ignition rate and highly ignitable fumes. The flame is apt to follow the fumes back to your mouth and ignite your face, mouth or worse lungs. This is called a blowback and is bad news, people have died from this. The risk of this with properly used Kero and Lamp Oil is virtually nothing.6)I am professional, I walk into a job with alcohol and I don't look like I am. Any moron off a bar can blow alcohol through a lighter and set himself on fire. I choose to put on a good, long standing show that won't ruin my reputation.Sorry if I sound harsh but earlier today I found out that a Ren person I know of was burned very badly doing an ill thought out blow. That is, the wrong fuel was used (alcohol), the wind wasn't checked and now this person is out of a job with crispy lungs and sinus cavity. This type of crap reflects badly on those of us who are responsible and do use caution, making it harder for us to get gigs.This isn't something to be taken lightly, entered in uneducated nor done irresponsibly. It's life or death people, all in the time it takes you to breathe.
Non-Https Image Link
Healthful wishes to all------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:Ahh..words of wisdom. But seriously, canola oil is actually toxic as well. Doctors are saying it is more useful to run your car on than put in your mouth and eat. And pardon my ignorance, but what is a charcoal cap? I've never heard of anything like that before...

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:>>>>Pele reading off of back of package<<<<For those of us here in the US (as I have no idea anywhere else in the world) we are lucky enough to have these little pink (okay, well not so little..about the size of a vitamin) charcoal caplets to take for nuetralizing accidental poisoning available from the pharmacy and from grocery and discount type stores like Walmart. Like, and I am going completely hypothetical here
Non-Https Image Link
, say someone were to swallow fuel. You can't induce vomiting because it will burn more on the way up than down so you head off to the emergency room and they fill your stomach full of that nasty charcoal fluid and then pump you out. Well, for **mild** cases there are these caplets of charcoal that you can take to help thwart the effects without and emergency room visit. I swear by these now!!! I don't think any emergency kit (not just fire kit) should be without them. The brand I have is Charco Caps made by Natural Origins. My grandmother, wanting me to be safe, bought them for me at the local grocery store pharmacy department. Now I buy them for myself. They are, go figure, black on the inside and bright pink on the outside, they have black lettering on them that reads Requa (nope, I dunno what that means). They are sealed in this plastic and tin thing that holds 6 sets of two, as you are only supposed to take 2 at a time, if you need more then you need a doctor.That's all they are, and ingenious little friend for those of us in the oral fire arts.As for the canola oil...really??? I know that most oils will clog arteries but wow!Toxic?
Non-Https Image Link
Isn't it in a ton of foods?Thinking non-toxic. If that is a **huge** issue and you don't mind a dry mouth and a small blow you can always try breathing flour. Yuck though!!!M'kay....I'll shut up now!
Non-Https Image Link
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

Chotys
member

Member Since: 15th Jul 2001
Total posts: 91
Posted:Hey guys! Thanks for the replies so far, as long as you are only doing firebreaths for the finales of your performances and every now and then and not every day the risks of getting cancer (although still there) should be lower than if you were doing it everyday. And for the people out there who are thinking of doing firebreathing although it is dangerous and you can never be really safe the safest thing to use i have found is kero because it isn't very volatile it is less likely to have blow back, it is FAR less likely to light you on fire (unless you pour it on your head-not recommended-) and therefore it is safer than things like alchol and stuff. Also, unlike some other chemicals it doesn't hurt as much when it goes in your eyes and up your nose (although if it does wash your eyes out IMMEDIATELY!!!) Has anyone found something to mix with kero to give a better fireball? Thanks for all the help, especially your warnings Pele.catch yall l8r:Chotys:

Delete

Blackbird
member
Location: London UK
Member Since: 23rd Jul 2001
Total posts: 337
Posted:Flour!? Flour??? How do you blow flour???

x X x Ĉ К я x X x

Delete

Posted:Guys, re. the Canola oil... many, many of the foods we eat are stuffed full of toxins, carcinogens... anything you can think of really. MSG is not good for you, sweeteners and flavourings are often cancer-promoting... basically, the human body lives its life out as a sink for the crap we stuff into it by living in cities, and even just eating, etc etc. When the sink is full... bucket-kicking time.Don't trust people to feed you healthily just cos they say they are, all they're after is money, remember.Look after yourselves (and me please!!)p_g xx

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:The way I have seen flor done was the person had his mouth very dry and he put in about a tablespoon. He then proceeded to purse his lips together as if to blow a kiss to someone and he blew out a white cloud of flour with quite a bit of force. Only a bit ended up igniting for a very small flash. The rest seemed to make quite the mess on himself, his clothes and the "stage". He also had this powdery, cakey ick in his mouth preventing him from talking afterwards.(Gross aye?)Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean I can't put it out there as an option right?
Non-Https Image Link
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:pele,come to think of it, you are right about the blow back from alcohol, one time I didn't blow hard enough (I didn't take enough time to focus) while using pure ethanol, and it came back at me and singed the hair on my face and head, no skin burns, but you are right, pure ethanol is dangerouse. I can understand about the "getting drunk + insurance" thing also. On the slightly safer side of alcohol, I have noticed that 151 proof still burns and it does not "blow back" nearly as much the pure stuff (pure ethanol is VERY TOUCHY). however if you don't get a good mist with 151, you can "put out your torch". And you can still get blow back with 151, it is just harder to get one big enough to actually burn you (I have seen some poeple try realy hard to burn themselves with a blow back and they still failed, it was scary to whatch though) Pele, if you say that the other stuff does not blow back I think it would be alot safer, however the toxicity thing bothers me. What is this "bio-deasil" stuff? And what about using vegetable oil? Thank you for you warnings, Pele, I will be more aware next time I think about spitting anything. about the "blowing fire with flour" thing. I belive the technical term for it is a "fuel/air explosion" I have heard of grain mills, flour mills, cow feed mills, etc, BLOWING UP because of the "dust" in the air. simply put, if you get the right mixture of fuel (kero, oil, flour) and oxidizer (oxygen in the air) all in the form of a "mist or gas" you will get an explosion when a spark is aplyed. actually. if yall are wanting to blow flour, be sure to not inhale the residual dust in your mouth (that would not be cool) I would suggest a beverage to gargle with after you spit. I would think that safety googles would be a good idea too.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Delete

s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:Tee hee... I had to laugh at the flour-blowing. I am allergic to the stuff so I have not given it ago (non-wheat flours tend to be heavier and lots more expensive). But surely inhaling the flour would be a lot easier than inhaling kero? mmm crispy lungs. Yes cities are bad, so is 99.9% of take away food, colours, additives etc etc. And they'll keep selling toxic stuff of course. Cause its cheap, its addictive (MSG) and of course companies that make money off these products care too much about money.It's a fairly recent thing about the canola oil toxicity (though "they've" been studying it for years.) So everyone grow their own food..in ground with no residual chemicals in it, no excess metals or salts, and then we'll all be doing the right thing by our bodies. (And GOOD LUCK finding land that has had no chemicals or runoff in it)...

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

Delete

DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:got two words for you guys.... VEGETABLE OIL.you know? Like soy bean oil, olive oil, peanut oil, canola oil, etc. We all use this stuff for cooking food, but I tried it for fire blowing a few days ago, and I am shocked at how good vegetable oil works. It is about the same thickness as motor oil... but if you practice and are able to produce a good, long, stead mist...B-B-B-B-Big fireball! I blew fire all night long with some soy bean oil, and I produces some increadable fireballs. Side effects include..."not getting hungry during allnight sesion because ingested oil makes an excelent energy source" and "excesive consumption may cause extream ease in torquing a wicked cable". (that is "bowel movement" But I had no side effects from a whole night of spitting. The stuff does take skill to use, not everybody can just put it in their mouth and get a top-notch fireball on the first try. But with just a little practice I got some killer balls!!! (er um, I mean...FIREBALLS!)

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

Delete