Forums > Introductions > Intro - and request for vocabulary wiki
Login/Join to Participatestranger
12 posts
Location: Belmont, CA
12 posts
Location: Belmont, CA
Posted:
I got on this site a week or so ago. I've already built my own poi and given myself a blister (no, not fire! just lots of spinning) and am telling my friends how easy and how much fun it is.
I've learned a lot from this site, especially once I started a topic on the vocabulary of plane changing.
We've found four different types of plane changes, and at least eight terms to refer to them.
It would help me a lot, as a newbie, if there was a page that described the vocabulary used in poi. The Glossary is more of an index - it links words to videos, but doesn't define them. Even after watching atomic-related videos, I still had to ask what "atomic" meant.
A wiki would be ideal for building up a vocabulary reference. With forums, you can't edit someone else's list without re-posting the whole thing. And I'm getting the idea that there are far too many terms for a moderator-edited list.
Is there any possibility of this site adding a wiki for this purpose? Where should I propose it?
I got on this site a week or so ago. I've already built my own poi and given myself a blister (no, not fire! just lots of spinning) and am telling my friends how easy and how much fun it is.
I've learned a lot from this site, especially once I started a topic on the vocabulary of plane changing.
We've found four different types of plane changes, and at least eight terms to refer to them.
It would help me a lot, as a newbie, if there was a page that described the vocabulary used in poi. The Glossary is more of an index - it links words to videos, but doesn't define them. Even after watching atomic-related videos, I still had to ask what "atomic" meant.
A wiki would be ideal for building up a vocabulary reference. With forums, you can't edit someone else's list without re-posting the whole thing. And I'm getting the idea that there are far too many terms for a moderator-edited list.
Is there any possibility of this site adding a wiki for this purpose? Where should I propose it?
SILVER Member
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Unofficial Chairperson of Squirrel Defense League
4,061 posts
Location: South Africa
Posted:
Hmmm.... This has come up before somewhere. I will see if I can dig it up. In the meantime, here is a list I have floating around.
It still has some holes, but anyway....
Quote:A work in progress, since there are not enough of these lists out there (sarcasm? That's original!). I do plan to include some diagrams, but would like the text to be as clear as possible (hopefully to stand alone if need be), which I doubt it is. Constructive suggestions welcome, especially if I have things incorrect.
==============================
The Bare Basics:
These are a couple building blocks on which everything, at least in the way I currently approach (teaching) poi, is built on. Even if it is built on the rubble left after demolishing this. These are not rules, and everyone's approach is different, but the following will allow you to understand most people talking about poi (at least online, in the communities I frequent).
Solidly drilling these few concepts will serve you well in terms of control.
------------------------------
Planes:
These simply refer to 2D surfaces that many poi moves are spun in. There are 3 basic plane orientations. (It is possible to do some very cool stuff using more planes, but I will cover that later.)
These basic orientations are: ``floor'' (horizontal), ``wheel'' (side) and ``wall'' (front) planes. Dancers may recognise these as ``transverse'', ``sagittal'' and ``coronal'' planes, respectively.
By using additional planes parallel to these, generally such that they form a cube around the body, a basic framework for beginning spinning in created.
Note that it is very possible to use other planes, for example, I have come across frameworks of an octogon and (viewed from above) a triangle. For the time being, these will be ignored in favour of a simple cube around the body, consisting of two of each plane. This may be thought of as a box in which one can spin only parallel to the sides.
Direction:
The convention, when the poi are spinning in side planes is to use ``forward'' and ``reverse'' to denote direction, based on the direction the poi are travelling in when at the top of their arc. Note that this is from the performer's perspective.
In other planes, ``clockwise'' and ``anticlockwise'' from the performer's perspective are most useful.
There are some suggestions to use clockwise and anticlockwise in all cases, but the terminology is imbedded at this point, and has one or two complications in any case.
The above is a discussion of a single poi. With two poi, they will either be spinning in the same direction as each other, or in different directions.
Timing:
There are two common timings: ``same'' and ``split'' (follow). In addition, more people are now playing with quarter time.
Same time involves both poi moving in synch, that is, they will both reach the top of their circle at the same time.
Split time involves poi being 180 degrees out of synch. (pi radians, if you prefer. Or tau/2 if you want to be deliberately obscure.) This leads to one poi being at the top of its circle while the other is at the bottom of its own.
Quarter time is similar, but the poi are only 90 degrees out of synch, that is, one vertical and one horizontal when a poi passes your head.
Ignoring quarter time for now, the following combinations of timing and direction emerge:
(with two poi in side planes)
Left Right Timing
Forward Forward Same
Forward Forward Split
Forward Reverse Same
Forward Reverse Split
Reverse Forward Same
Reverse Forward Split
Reverse Reverse Same
Reverse Reverse Split
Reverse and forward can be replaced with clockwise or anticlockwise (as long as the replacement is consistent) for other planes.
From what I have seen, most quarter time moves are done in same direction, but in either case, are relatively rare.
-----------------------------------
As I have already said, these are not hard and fast, but the recommendation I would make is to learn where the box is and why it exists the way it does before starting to break it by thinking outside of it.
There is plenty to do inside the box in any case, as we shall now elaborate.
===================================
Basic Move Families/Groupings
Dividing the totality of poispace into seperate moves is natural, necessary for communication of ideas, and at the same time, fraught with contradictions and exceptions. I have attempted to keep to fairly simple groupings, at least for now.
Stalls:
These involve the poi head coming to a complete stop. Usually the direction (possibly timing as well) will be altered after this, but this is not a requirement. The easiest way to conceptualise these is by letting the poi move in a tangent off their usual circle. ``Isolations'' can also be thought of as stalling around part of the poi tether.
``Zero points'' are very similar, but tend not to be clear as stalls.
Pendula:
A pendulum is simply a poi that is not completing a circle, insteading stopping and moving back over the path it just came along due to gravity. Basically, these swing back and forth due to gravity. These are an important part of ``not-1.5s'' and are closely related to ``stalls''.
Zero Points:
These are points at which the poi head is free to move in any direction. Stalls are the most obvious, but these can also emerge out of some anti-spin patterns. Very useful as ways of changing direction and timing.
Isolations:
Instead of letting the centre of rotation be the handle of the poi tether, the centre of rotation moves down the tether. This leads to an effect where the poi head is moving around a circle, with the handle being at the opposite side of the circle. Easier to visualise than this explanation leads one to believe, and harder to do cleanly than the easy visualisation leads one to hope.
A ``point isolation'' has the head not moving at all and is *extremely* difficult.
Extensions:
Also called a long-arm, these move the centre of rotation to a point beyond the handle. This leads to the poi head taking a longer than normal path to complete a circle. A common part of ``CAPs'' and ``Hybrids''.
Flowers:
A large supergroup, arguably containing a subset of some other groups mentioned. In their most basic form, a flower involves the poi rotating around a hand that is also rotating, usually around the shoulder. Formerly named ``compound circles'', flower is now the more common term, used because of the effect given when fire trails are used in conjunction with time-lapse/long-exposure photography.
Most commonly (and originally), these are done in wheel plane (although wall-plane is also fairly common now), with one one each side of the body. Your arms are able to move in the same ways as poi, and the same terminolgy is used (same/split time, same/opposite direction). Split time opposites is *very* difficult, since arms do not bend that way.
Two basic types exist:
``Anti-spin'' and either one of ``inspin'', ``prospin'', ``spin''. (This was only named after anti-spin, and so never really got a settled one. There are a few others, but I think these are the most common. Inspin seems to be the most common, but it may vary depending on which community you are talking about.)
Anti-spin:
The poi and arm move in opposite directions.
Inspin:
Poi and arm move in the same direction.
CAPs:
These are patterns in which the poi does something different at different points of a cycle. For example, switching from extension to anti-spin. This is the most common, and is termed a C-CAP, since your hand moves in a C. Note that a CAP is a pattern made with one poi.
Overlaps with ``Hybrids'' in some cases.
Hybrids:
Here two poi do something different without changing during their cycle. The first documented example was isolation vs extension, but many different forms can be made. The definition was extended at one point to include the concept of ``driving styles'', with a hybrid being made up of each poi performing a different driving style.
Switching which hand does which part of the pattern (which at the same time changing which side of the body the pattern happens) creates a ``hybrid weave''.
Some of these overlap with ``CAPs''.
Buzzsaws:
The basic buzzsaw is simply poi spinning in split-time, same direction, between the arms. This makes use of a single plane, dividing the body into left and right (saggital/wheel) along which both poi move along. It is also possible to turn these onto their sides, and of course, they can be done in a variety of different timings and directions.
Weaves:
Weaves proper involve a twisting up on one side, followed by untwisting on the other. A 3 beat weave (often the first move learned) involves one degree of twist, a 5 beat has two. (Other moves also have twist, such as crossers and airwraps.)
A three beat weave has two spins for the poi on its native side and one circle on the non-native side. A five beat has three and two respectively.
By moving ones hands in a weave motion, but with poi in opposites,
Fountains:
Sharing the name fountain with an old club-swinging move, but quite distinct, the poi fountain proper is simply a cycle of forward weave -> reverse weave -> windmill -> forward weave.
More generally, the term fountain is used of moves that are essentially wall-plane flowers. It is also applied to moving normal moves around the body in a circular fashion, of which the most common is probably a buzzsaw fountain.
Hope it helps, and welcome.
Hmmm.... This has come up before somewhere. I will see if I can dig it up. In the meantime, here is a list I have floating around.
It still has some holes, but anyway....
Quote:A work in progress, since there are not enough of these lists out there (sarcasm? That's original!). I do plan to include some diagrams, but would like the text to be as clear as possible (hopefully to stand alone if need be), which I doubt it is. Constructive suggestions welcome, especially if I have things incorrect.
==============================
The Bare Basics:
These are a couple building blocks on which everything, at least in the way I currently approach (teaching) poi, is built on. Even if it is built on the rubble left after demolishing this. These are not rules, and everyone's approach is different, but the following will allow you to understand most people talking about poi (at least online, in the communities I frequent).
Solidly drilling these few concepts will serve you well in terms of control.
------------------------------
Planes:
These simply refer to 2D surfaces that many poi moves are spun in. There are 3 basic plane orientations. (It is possible to do some very cool stuff using more planes, but I will cover that later.)
These basic orientations are: ``floor'' (horizontal), ``wheel'' (side) and ``wall'' (front) planes. Dancers may recognise these as ``transverse'', ``sagittal'' and ``coronal'' planes, respectively.
By using additional planes parallel to these, generally such that they form a cube around the body, a basic framework for beginning spinning in created.
Note that it is very possible to use other planes, for example, I have come across frameworks of an octogon and (viewed from above) a triangle. For the time being, these will be ignored in favour of a simple cube around the body, consisting of two of each plane. This may be thought of as a box in which one can spin only parallel to the sides.
Direction:
The convention, when the poi are spinning in side planes is to use ``forward'' and ``reverse'' to denote direction, based on the direction the poi are travelling in when at the top of their arc. Note that this is from the performer's perspective.
In other planes, ``clockwise'' and ``anticlockwise'' from the performer's perspective are most useful.
There are some suggestions to use clockwise and anticlockwise in all cases, but the terminology is imbedded at this point, and has one or two complications in any case.
The above is a discussion of a single poi. With two poi, they will either be spinning in the same direction as each other, or in different directions.
Timing:
There are two common timings: ``same'' and ``split'' (follow). In addition, more people are now playing with quarter time.
Same time involves both poi moving in synch, that is, they will both reach the top of their circle at the same time.
Split time involves poi being 180 degrees out of synch. (pi radians, if you prefer. Or tau/2 if you want to be deliberately obscure.) This leads to one poi being at the top of its circle while the other is at the bottom of its own.
Quarter time is similar, but the poi are only 90 degrees out of synch, that is, one vertical and one horizontal when a poi passes your head.
Ignoring quarter time for now, the following combinations of timing and direction emerge:
(with two poi in side planes)
Left Right Timing
Forward Forward Same
Forward Forward Split
Forward Reverse Same
Forward Reverse Split
Reverse Forward Same
Reverse Forward Split
Reverse Reverse Same
Reverse Reverse Split
Reverse and forward can be replaced with clockwise or anticlockwise (as long as the replacement is consistent) for other planes.
From what I have seen, most quarter time moves are done in same direction, but in either case, are relatively rare.
-----------------------------------
As I have already said, these are not hard and fast, but the recommendation I would make is to learn where the box is and why it exists the way it does before starting to break it by thinking outside of it.
There is plenty to do inside the box in any case, as we shall now elaborate.===================================
Basic Move Families/Groupings
Dividing the totality of poispace into seperate moves is natural, necessary for communication of ideas, and at the same time, fraught with contradictions and exceptions. I have attempted to keep to fairly simple groupings, at least for now.
Stalls:
These involve the poi head coming to a complete stop. Usually the direction (possibly timing as well) will be altered after this, but this is not a requirement. The easiest way to conceptualise these is by letting the poi move in a tangent off their usual circle. ``Isolations'' can also be thought of as stalling around part of the poi tether.
``Zero points'' are very similar, but tend not to be clear as stalls.
Pendula:
A pendulum is simply a poi that is not completing a circle, insteading stopping and moving back over the path it just came along due to gravity. Basically, these swing back and forth due to gravity. These are an important part of ``not-1.5s'' and are closely related to ``stalls''.
Zero Points:
These are points at which the poi head is free to move in any direction. Stalls are the most obvious, but these can also emerge out of some anti-spin patterns. Very useful as ways of changing direction and timing.
Isolations:
Instead of letting the centre of rotation be the handle of the poi tether, the centre of rotation moves down the tether. This leads to an effect where the poi head is moving around a circle, with the handle being at the opposite side of the circle. Easier to visualise than this explanation leads one to believe, and harder to do cleanly than the easy visualisation leads one to hope.
A ``point isolation'' has the head not moving at all and is *extremely* difficult.
Extensions:
Also called a long-arm, these move the centre of rotation to a point beyond the handle. This leads to the poi head taking a longer than normal path to complete a circle. A common part of ``CAPs'' and ``Hybrids''.
Flowers:
A large supergroup, arguably containing a subset of some other groups mentioned. In their most basic form, a flower involves the poi rotating around a hand that is also rotating, usually around the shoulder. Formerly named ``compound circles'', flower is now the more common term, used because of the effect given when fire trails are used in conjunction with time-lapse/long-exposure photography.
Most commonly (and originally), these are done in wheel plane (although wall-plane is also fairly common now), with one one each side of the body. Your arms are able to move in the same ways as poi, and the same terminolgy is used (same/split time, same/opposite direction). Split time opposites is *very* difficult, since arms do not bend that way.
Two basic types exist:
``Anti-spin'' and either one of ``inspin'', ``prospin'', ``spin''. (This was only named after anti-spin, and so never really got a settled one. There are a few others, but I think these are the most common. Inspin seems to be the most common, but it may vary depending on which community you are talking about.)
Anti-spin:
The poi and arm move in opposite directions.
Inspin:
Poi and arm move in the same direction.
CAPs:
These are patterns in which the poi does something different at different points of a cycle. For example, switching from extension to anti-spin. This is the most common, and is termed a C-CAP, since your hand moves in a C. Note that a CAP is a pattern made with one poi.
Overlaps with ``Hybrids'' in some cases.
Hybrids:
Here two poi do something different without changing during their cycle. The first documented example was isolation vs extension, but many different forms can be made. The definition was extended at one point to include the concept of ``driving styles'', with a hybrid being made up of each poi performing a different driving style.
Switching which hand does which part of the pattern (which at the same time changing which side of the body the pattern happens) creates a ``hybrid weave''.
Some of these overlap with ``CAPs''.
Buzzsaws:
The basic buzzsaw is simply poi spinning in split-time, same direction, between the arms. This makes use of a single plane, dividing the body into left and right (saggital/wheel) along which both poi move along. It is also possible to turn these onto their sides, and of course, they can be done in a variety of different timings and directions.
Weaves:
Weaves proper involve a twisting up on one side, followed by untwisting on the other. A 3 beat weave (often the first move learned) involves one degree of twist, a 5 beat has two. (Other moves also have twist, such as crossers and airwraps.)
A three beat weave has two spins for the poi on its native side and one circle on the non-native side. A five beat has three and two respectively.
By moving ones hands in a weave motion, but with poi in opposites,
Fountains:
Sharing the name fountain with an old club-swinging move, but quite distinct, the poi fountain proper is simply a cycle of forward weave -> reverse weave -> windmill -> forward weave.
More generally, the term fountain is used of moves that are essentially wall-plane flowers. It is also applied to moving normal moves around the body in a circular fashion, of which the most common is probably a buzzsaw fountain.
Hope it helps, and welcome.
'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland
SILVER Member
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Geek
1,261 posts
Location: Manchester, UK
Posted:
Hi Chris.
I'm pretty sure that the last time we discussed this we decided that the regional variations on naming would make this pretty hard.
I think it sounds like a good idea though. It would probably generate a bit more community contribution and we could have static pages instead of the stickies in the forum. If Malcolm did install a mediawiki I'd probably help contribute to it, even if it was just to drag the old info out of the forum and put it into more permanent pages.
Hi Chris.
I'm pretty sure that the last time we discussed this we decided that the regional variations on naming would make this pretty hard.
I think it sounds like a good idea though. It would probably generate a bit more community contribution and we could have static pages instead of the stickies in the forum. If Malcolm did install a mediawiki I'd probably help contribute to it, even if it was just to drag the old info out of the forum and put it into more permanent pages.
stranger
1 post
1 post
Posted:
Originally Posted By: SeyeHi Chris.
I'm pretty sure that the last time we discussed this we decided that the regional variations on naming would make this pretty hard.
I think it sounds like a good idea though. It would probably generate a bit more community contribution and we could have static pages instead of the stickies in the forum. If Malcolm did install a mediawiki I'd probably help contribute to it, even if it was just to drag the old info out of the forum and put it into more permanent pages.
I also think so.
Originally Posted By: SeyeHi Chris.
I'm pretty sure that the last time we discussed this we decided that the regional variations on naming would make this pretty hard.
I think it sounds like a good idea though. It would probably generate a bit more community contribution and we could have static pages instead of the stickies in the forum. If Malcolm did install a mediawiki I'd probably help contribute to it, even if it was just to drag the old info out of the forum and put it into more permanent pages.
I also think so.
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com