Page:
simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i've been having some loose and disconnected thoughts about spinning.

it started when i was chatting to meg about strange feelings we can have when we see patterns that confuse us
(buzzword(s): cognitive dissonance)

and it occurred to me that what you do immediately before and after a "move" critically affects how it is seen by the audience.

and um...

ok I just had this PM conversation with meg

 Written by:

From: simian
09/07/07 03:21 PM

context is what its all about now baby
"WOW what was that!?"
"what it was is unimportant. What matters is the context in which it was placed."

"hmm, that didn't look so hot"
"it will do, i just need to find the right context"

The heckle of 2008:
"Do it CONTEXTUALLY!"

Yeah baby. Context. You know you love it.



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 08:37 AM

are you on drugs?

Clearly the best heckle in this new regime will be: Do in a the context of a female tennis player!



 Written by:

From: simian
10/07/07 09:56 AM

i'm high on CONTEXT sweetcheeks

Phi phenomenons and chuu chuus got me thinking about it -

the individual movements are kinda simple and almost trivial, and not enormously effective. But the context in which they're placed, what goes before and after it, is what gives them their greater significance (makes them look cooler)

But temporal context is just one part of it.

enviromental context:-
obvious example: glowtoys in bright sunlight vs. glowtoys in the dark

Now imagine different visual effects from different kinds of spinning against fast moving horizontal\vertical backgrounds (motorway/waterfall)

And Cultural context:
Ironic spinning
Spinning where knowledge of the spinners personality is important
spinning as part of a story

Musical context:
what kind of music you're playing - well duh...

ETCETERA!

so you can play with the contexts in different ways, using them to reinforce an impression \ create a counterpoint or even trigger phi phenomenon.

have i dun gon mad?



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 11:21 AM

you're talking about performance techniques simian, who would have ever thought it?

so yeah, i think you dun gon mad!



 Written by:

From: simian
10/07/07 11:32 AM

hmmm

only in the sense that poi is performance

which isn't even necessarily true, because it depends on the context



 Written by:

From: mcp
10/07/07 11:37 AM

if you're spinning and nobody is watching you, in the middle of a forest and a tree falls, does it matter what the context is?

Does context only matter when there is somebody to understand the context, other than you?

If nobody see's you spin, did you even really do it?



so um yeeeeeeeah... what do you think?

it's kind of trivial. But i haven't thought about poi that way before - when thinking in a techie mindset.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Mr ChutneySILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK


Posted:
So this all boils down to relationships-

I think you're saying my post relates to the relationship between the spinner and their audience and the decisions made to manipulate that interraction.

What relationships are you talking about? (the move/ the spinner/ the place/ the intention/ the execution...)

I am trying...

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
i'm talking about whichever one i choose to talk about at the time.

ergo - i am trying to say much less that you might think\hope i am

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


Mr ChutneySILVER Member
Tosser
1,712 posts
Location: Bristol,UK


Posted:
in which case i'm really not sure what you're hoping to get out of this thread, other than to raise awareness of context when spinning.

simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
yes smile hug

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
well, and also cos you never know what you'll get if you throw ramblings at people.
sometimes they throw things.
shiny things!

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
ubblol

Sorrys monkey... that's what happens when you don't read the other 6 pages... there were too many big words, which, it appears, were used simply to exercise your brain and Meg's ego/thesaurus and perhaps not really getting to anywhere substantial... other than 'just be' (which, admittedly, could be substantial... if it was applied to more than swinging stuff) tongue

"i'll have another little go at explaining what i mean, this time tailored towards you"

You will be slapped for this some day... but I suspect you will enjoy it, so it's ok smile

xx

Getting to the other side smile


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
ditto

minus the slap, it'll be more of a stroke for the monkey man.

jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
why are you philosophising about poi moves?! Stop making everything so bloody complicated!

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


shen shuiSILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand


Posted:
good thread.

i like how eventually simian managed to get his point across.

it appeared that everyone had valid arguments for their respective perceptions - i concur. :P

have you ever talked with someone about something and then later on realised they were talking about something else?

or argued with someone about something, and then realised that you agreed on the same thing, but were expressing it in different ways?

not that im saying that this is whats happened here, just an interesting muse.

nice.

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.


YakumoSILVER Member
veteran
1,237 posts
Location: Oxfordshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
it all makes sense, their perceptions were just contextual

Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin


MolochSILVER Member
Shirt-Cocker Extraordinaire
47 posts
Location: Colorado, USA


Posted:
So was context taken by everybody and used in context? wink

PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
are the Northerners finally becoming aware of themselves as entities that spin poi rather than poi spinning entities?

:ducks and runs:

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


Wild ChildSILVER Member
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


to be honest, when i start thinking about messing about with the context in which spinning takes place, or in which props move, the first thing that pops into my head is the possibilities for video, as opposed to live performance.



but but but i thought you said it WASN'T about performance confused isn't a vid a performance? Aren't you ,when you watch it back, checking for how it looks to an audience (even though it's you - narcissist! wink )?

Pffft! you're just a techy who's found expression hug clap

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
 Written by: Wild Child

but but but i thought you said it WASN'T about performance



No i didn't. i said it wasn't just about performance.

and it's not necessarily about expression either shrug



pyrolific: i wouldn't know what northerners are up to. i live in east london.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
simian... hug2

smile

Getting to the other side smile


jo_rhymesSILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom


Posted:
Vince Noir: "it's all about context!" in regards to the captain's new mullet.

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


Wild ChildSILVER Member
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
 Written by: simian


[pyrolific: i wouldn't know what northerners are up to. i live in east london.



How parochial - but taken in context, accurate wink

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
ripped out of context, for simian:


Non-Https Image Link

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Wild ChildSILVER Member
Star Trekker
1,733 posts
Location: Cheshire, United Kingdom


Posted:
'May i have this dance?'

'The last rays of crimson on the spindle tree as the cerise fruit splits and reveals its orange seeds in a gloriously clashing colour scheme no-one would ever dare to wear'
Euonymous Europeus


shen shuiSILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand


Posted:
Non-sequitur.

(even non-sequitur can be a non-sequitur!)

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.


PyrolificBRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia


Posted:
that Cats an awesome mime!

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!


RicheeBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic


Posted:
I think I understand that more now. The context, I see like, not what

is the move, but where the move is done.



Like behind the back weave, where the move is weave, but spinning

behind the back, gives a context to this move.



Lets say 'superduperuberloop'. What is it?



It's weave that has loop, the loop is between hands and all is turned

around head, nothing more.



When I decypher, it looks like this:



weavesmiley <- Move



weavesmiley [loop] <- Manipulation



weavesmiley [loop] [buzzsaw] <- Context



weavesmiley [loop] [buzzsaw] [around the head] <- Context



Simian?,



:R

POI THEO(R)IST


AlienJonGOLD Member
enthusiast
290 posts
Location: Everywhere, USA


Posted:
 Written by: simian

check this optical illusion that meg showed me. The central writing is rotating smoothly. But in the context of its juxtaposition with a pendulum background, the apparent movement is affected. How would you have to spin that central part to make it appear smooth? And how strange and pointless would that movement look when it was out of context?





Can't help but reference this 'puter simulation of a poi move I do:






Similar to that optical illusion... but There is actually a speed change so that the green poi linear isolates only the top half of the pattern. I think it may be more effective as phi phenomenon similar to said optical illusion if the bottom half of the pattern is a linear hand movement straight across, without changing the spin speed of the green poi.



-Alien Jon

+Alien Jon


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
[quote=simian]a couple of things i'm particularly interested in regarding the context of my "moves" are:

How to confuse people by putting moves next to each other in a way so they look wierd. What moves look wierd in the context of being next to each other.

and the counterpoint to that - what moves look completely unjarring and natural in the context of each other. How to cause cognitive assonance.



er... can I just say... the second one is what I would define as 'flow' I think.

the first one? Trying to make very disconcerting transitions? Haven't seen this very often... I think there sould be a poi 'the game' expansion pack for it...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


simian110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London


Posted:
You can call it 'flow' if you like. You could also call it 'jam sandwich'. But that doesn't tell you anything more about it smile

Disconcerting transitions? That's what antispin is for.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
I don't find anti-spin very disconcerting anymore, I need more of it to get the same cognitive dissonance that I got when i first saw anti-spin.

Like you can say flow is where a person transitions between two moves in a 'flowing' / 'fluid' manner because the moves link up well, the arms are in the right position at the end of move 1 to go into move 2 and no extra beats need to go in to get the poi in the right position etc... But that doesn't mean the transition will look natural and unjarring. So it's interesting to me to think of it in this new way. SO NEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR.

So anti-spin no longer does it for me. It would need to be a very weird hybrid transitioning into a circle stretching maneuver with some inside plane introinnervisions with a sprinkling of contorted wraps in it, to get that same level of 'whaerrrrgh?'.

Thinking about that makes heisenbergs seem natural and unjarring.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


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