Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > Spinning in Context
Login/Join to Participate3,149 posts
Location: London
i've been having some loose and disconnected thoughts about spinning.
it started when i was chatting to meg about strange feelings we can have when we see patterns that confuse us
(buzzword(s): cognitive dissonance)
and it occurred to me that what you do immediately before and after a "move" critically affects how it is seen by the audience.
and um...
ok I just had this PM conversation with meg
Written by:
From: simian
09/07/07 03:21 PM
context is what its all about now baby
"WOW what was that!?"
"what it was is unimportant. What matters is the context in which it was placed."
"hmm, that didn't look so hot"
"it will do, i just need to find the right context"
The heckle of 2008:
"Do it CONTEXTUALLY!"
Yeah baby. Context. You know you love it.
Written by:
From: mcp
10/07/07 08:37 AM
are you on drugs?
Clearly the best heckle in this new regime will be: Do in a the context of a female tennis player!
Written by:
From: simian
10/07/07 09:56 AM
i'm high on CONTEXT sweetcheeks
Phi phenomenons and chuu chuus got me thinking about it -
the individual movements are kinda simple and almost trivial, and not enormously effective. But the context in which they're placed, what goes before and after it, is what gives them their greater significance (makes them look cooler)
But temporal context is just one part of it.
enviromental context:-
obvious example: glowtoys in bright sunlight vs. glowtoys in the dark
Now imagine different visual effects from different kinds of spinning against fast moving horizontal\vertical backgrounds (motorway/waterfall)
And Cultural context:
Ironic spinning
Spinning where knowledge of the spinners personality is important
spinning as part of a story
Musical context:
what kind of music you're playing - well duh...
ETCETERA!
so you can play with the contexts in different ways, using them to reinforce an impression \ create a counterpoint or even trigger phi phenomenon.
have i dun gon mad?
Written by:
From: mcp
10/07/07 11:21 AM
you're talking about performance techniques simian, who would have ever thought it?
so yeah, i think you dun gon mad!
Written by:
From: simian
10/07/07 11:32 AM
hmmm
only in the sense that poi is performance
which isn't even necessarily true, because it depends on the context
Written by:
From: mcp
10/07/07 11:37 AM
if you're spinning and nobody is watching you, in the middle of a forest and a tree falls, does it matter what the context is?
Does context only matter when there is somebody to understand the context, other than you?
If nobody see's you spin, did you even really do it?
so um yeeeeeeeah... what do you think?
it's kind of trivial. But i haven't thought about poi that way before - when thinking in a techie mindset.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
I think you've had too much crack
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
3,149 posts
Location: London
i'm drug-free, honest guvnor.
i might be dun goin mad tho...
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Written by: simian
and it occurred to me that what you do immediately before and after a "move" critically affects how it is seen by the audience.
Like doing a slow longarm parallel split time 4 petal flower and then changing your arm direction and doing fast anti-spin flowers. Slow to fast = good performance technique.
context is all about performance techniques I reckon.
But is also an interesting way to think about them. And routine building. And the making of intersting patterns.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Tangled into my spins
187 posts
Location: Italy
I think that the correctness of the context must be put in a context... XD
Seriously, this is a concept always true if we assume an open world(in informatics) view, but we cannot control the whole world variables so we must resize our point of view on how we can understand, feel, touch with a sense...
So we are in a context, yes, but in my opinion only when it is a bit "controlled" by us (like on a stage...) we can really play in it.. in other cases we can control only a little part of it...
All of this is depending on the abstraction level we took, and can be meaningfull or unuseful as you like...
I hope this have sense in english...
Cheers!!
Acciaio
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Written by: simian
and it occurred to me that what you do immediately before and after a "move" critically affects how it is seen by the audience.
id agree with this.
context is important to understanding anything. taken out of context its hard to understand the original meaning of the thing, and totally new meanings may be derived.
but since poi generally dosnt mean much, as it is mainly an aesthetic art the context dosnt matter so much. (beauty has and allways will be subjective, it dosnt matter when/where/who you are. conventional beauty is the kind of beauty that everyone is told and believes is beautyful, and this can change depending on your time/space co-ordinates (i.e context). but there will allways be unconventional beauty too.)
so i reckon until we learn to spin poi with meaning then we dont need to worry to much about the context.
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
3,149 posts
Location: London
You have perfect sense in english, Acciaio
um, Acciaio and meg are concentrating very much on spinning in the context of performance though. i can spin in the context of having a laugh in my back garden, can't i?
well i can't because i don't have a garden at the moment, but i could if i did.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Yes.
Simian is indeed thinking about performance technique, and what he requires/desires his performance to portray.
He just doesn't know it yet.
where the 'Manipulation' is not just the manipulation of a prop, but the manipulation of an audience's perception.
The magic behind a story lies not in the words, but in the individual that understands of those words.
What you are talking about is also f*cking hard to do.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
spinning in the context of having a laugh in your back garden = you are the audience.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
simian: why does the rest of the world care about what you do in your invisible backyard? Surely the context is "spinning for your own pleasure"?
So unless you have an audience and can report on how you used context to make the spinning 'better' which is to say, more in context, or you discovered new interesting sequences of patterns all working nicely in the context of the one before and after, why should we care?
Overly harsh sounding I know, and in this context, I don't care!
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
3,149 posts
Location: London
meg - i can be my own audience so nerr.
my mum can watch me too, but she thinks everything i do is awesome in the context of being her son
Ed - naah
this thinking comes from dredging the darkest depths of my inner geek, not on some peverse desire to be in the circle du solero.
check this optical illusion that meg showed me. The central writing is rotating smoothly. But in the context of its juxtaposition with a pendulum background, the apparent movement is affected. How would you have to spin that central part to make it appear smooth? And how strange and pointless would that movement look when it was out of context?
EDITED_BY: simian (1184076029)
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
yup, simian made a point so big you missed it...
certain tricks create a "WTF was that effect" this is usually not caused by the trick in isolation, but the change in movement between preceading tricks. even if it does work in isolation its because it tends to combine or contextualise two disperate elements.
think 1.5's not really a whole new trick, but the contextualisation of two tricks together.
chu-chu snakes look weird
cho-choo's by themselves look lame.
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
context is kinda rubbish name, its too broad, and this place looks like a wanky art debate.
we always deal with context, we have thought about spin contxt, placement context, movement context, driving style context, poi-relational context... blaa bla blaa, basically simian has gone 'level up' and looked now how visual iteractions can beused to create effects, the perceptive context maybe... :P
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
oh, and someone point me in the direction to some information about what the f*ck these things called Chu Chu and Phi are. My understanding of what currently appears to be bullsh!t will then greatly increase.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
3,149 posts
Location: London
"Phi phenomenon" seems quite accurate-ish related to the temporal juxtaposition of different moves to make you go "ugh!"
but i was intending to talk about it in the broader sense too.
for instance... why just be interested in how to spin in a really confusing way, but... maybe also on how to spin in a varying but deliberately very boring way.
RE: wanky art discussion. Yes. also intentional
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
3,149 posts
Location: London
Written by: Limits_To_Contest
oh, and someone point me in the direction to some information about what the f*ck these things called Chu Chu and Phi are. My understanding of what currently appears to be bullsh!t will then greatly increase.
Try going to watch megs last but one LAB video
Her bestest video ever by the way (although still haven't seen Ronans - poo work pcs)
and read stuff following that in the thread.
erm.. someone not at work could provide a link
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
for choo-choo's look at megs LAB video thread, i think they are posted on tribe too.
i dont know what Phi is either
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
3,149 posts
Location: London
Actually cognitive dissonance would probably be a more exact term than phi phenomenon.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
https://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1133683320068750084&hl=en-GB
is chu'chuu's
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
'context'?
sounds like a long-monkey-winded way of saying "its all about the transitions baby".
which is particularly poignant for me right now as it really is all about the transitions - i'm totally hopped up on epicyclic motion.
the rest of these 'contexts' *are* performance considerations which i could give a crap about.
who cares what music is playing, what colour paint you put on your left cheek or how many hours you spent playing with the video backdrop that 'subtley enhances the effect of the illusion guy' - this is object manipulation.
the context is provided by the movement of body and props.
environment only plays a part if it is actually required to enable the move to be performed.
if the move ain't cool by itself, i don't care if you think i'd have a different opinion when you do it in a phone box half dressed like a reporter and half dressed like superman.
i might concede to 'this looks cooler with socks rather than tails' but if you see a move and think its crap because you can;t see the performance potential then you're just near-sighted.
and if you need to place a move within a certain context for it to be valid, then it probably sucks in the first place.
besides, this is all yesterday's news - the oldest (and best) heckle of them all is context-based:
"DO IT NAKED!"
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Simian, you have to define this context thing. It means TOOO much! First I thought you were talking about the context of your spin, then it could be the context of the move and how it relates to the movements before and after... and now you've added the context of one prop to the other... to create illusion.
Ah so in essense I agree with Tom, unfortunately. I think we need different names for each form of 'context'. But that could be cos I am a systematical naming by-atch.
phi phenomenon is essentially the classic D-Lite illusion, that the light is 'moving' from one fake thumb to the other. The light does no such thing. One light turns on and the other turns off, but because they happen at close to he same time, your brain perceives the light to 'jump' from one hand to the other. (having traveled the distance in between - magically.)
It's the same illusion with chuu chuu's. Changing the 'galaxian' vertical staff in the chuu chuu snake to the other staff at the same time causes a weird phi phenonmenon to happen. I guess which looks like the behaviour has switched from one staff to 'tother. Also it makes a snaking motion. Snakes are cool. In this context.
cognitive dissonance would be a better name for this thread.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
3,149 posts
Location: London
cole is so contextual and he doesn't even know it
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
3,149 posts
Location: London
Meg:
Context just means context
i'm not defining it. i'm just using a word that exists already.
Written by: mcp
It means TOOO much!
that's one of my favourite things about it.
we don't really need to define many words to talk about all this stuff. They kind of mostly exist already.
No! Stop compartmentalising! Bad meg!
EDITED_BY: simian (1184077516)
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
only when i'm spinning naked baby
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
simian: you complain hybrid is useless cos it's such a all-encompassing term now don't cha? SO I complain about context. I don't need none of these new fangled words that lose their context through over use and over subscription.
coleman: if the move isn't cool by itself, do it more, and try and convince people it's dead cool.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
I approve of Chuu chuus.
Especially when you put down the sticks, and pick up four balls instead.
Thank you.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
3,149 posts
Location: London
Off topic to Meg:
hybrid was a technical poi term, that was changed to a different meaning with less explanatory power. i didn't like that.
Context is just context. Like i said in my first post, you can regard my observations as pretty trivial
But you think that temporal juxtaposition of moves and positional juxtaposition of two props doing moves are so unrelated?
Chuu-chuu transitions being an excellent example where the combination of the two creates cognitive dissonance.
But it's not all about dissonance.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Dammit i agree with meg.
I had too amny endless and fruitless discussions on 'context' at art school.
lets be rigerous, and creative.
cole: wash my suit!
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
so you deliberately made a post that said basically: "Hey guys! Everything!"
useful.
I was trying to help you. Oh well. Your incurable.
The term Hybrid lost it's original context is what I was saying.
Ed: Oh wow, more horizontal four ball patterns. I am Megs' utter lack of enthusiasm.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
*gives Meg a finger, gift wrapped in a pretty little box*
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
3,149 posts
Location: London
if you think that it's useless or trivial, then that's fair enough.
but cole (an official clever chap) doesn't agree with the idea that identical movements could be more or less impressive given the context in which they're placed, which is pretty much the thrust of what i wanted to convey.
if there's disagreement there, then i suppose it's not that trivial.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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