Forums > Social Discussion > protesters going a step to far
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
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110 posts
Location: my own little planet of gingerness, United Kingdom
Posted:
recent news events have really got my back up so i thought id see what other people thought
a farmer and his family who breeds animals to be used in pharmasutical testing have been harrased by protesters to the degree that his granmother grave has been desicrated and her corpse removed in the name of animal rights this has come after a string of attacks by so called animal terroists who have caused distruction of property and general harrasment of this farmer and his family.
now i dont want to offend any one but in my view we need to test drugs to see if they cure weather it be on animals or humans frankly i dont care............
i can fully apriceate that these called animal terroists have they views and belive that they should stand up for animal rights what i dont agree with and this is my main grip with these arsholes is that they felt they had the right to desicrate a dead womans grave and steal the corpse in the name of animal welfare ........throwing eggs and smashing property is 1 thing but to do somthing like this in my opinion is bang out of order how would these people feel if i decided to dig up there granmothers in the name of egg rights which leads me to another point if they are so concerned with animal welfare why are they pelting eggs at this farmer and his family.
well that my ten pence worth
recent news events have really got my back up so i thought id see what other people thought
a farmer and his family who breeds animals to be used in pharmasutical testing have been harrased by protesters to the degree that his granmother grave has been desicrated and her corpse removed in the name of animal rights this has come after a string of attacks by so called animal terroists who have caused distruction of property and general harrasment of this farmer and his family.
now i dont want to offend any one but in my view we need to test drugs to see if they cure weather it be on animals or humans frankly i dont care............
i can fully apriceate that these called animal terroists have they views and belive that they should stand up for animal rights what i dont agree with and this is my main grip with these arsholes is that they felt they had the right to desicrate a dead womans grave and steal the corpse in the name of animal welfare ........throwing eggs and smashing property is 1 thing but to do somthing like this in my opinion is bang out of order how would these people feel if i decided to dig up there granmothers in the name of egg rights which leads me to another point if they are so concerned with animal welfare why are they pelting eggs at this farmer and his family.
well that my ten pence worth
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
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big and good and broken
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Posted:
i think you have suceeded in that aim
i fully respect the views and the aims of animal rights supporters and activists.
i think it is a shame when a change like this comes about because of pressure through illegal activities and it is even more of a shame when the respectable groups fail to condemn the actions of the extremeists.
what birgit said regarding self-moderation is an important one and though self-moderation within a group that large is impractical and very likely impossible.
however, i think at the very least, any illegal actions carried out by an extremeist minority should be denounced by the groups that are driving for the same cause within the boundaries of the law.
cole. x
i think you have suceeded in that aim
i fully respect the views and the aims of animal rights supporters and activists.
i think it is a shame when a change like this comes about because of pressure through illegal activities and it is even more of a shame when the respectable groups fail to condemn the actions of the extremeists.
what birgit said regarding self-moderation is an important one and though self-moderation within a group that large is impractical and very likely impossible.
however, i think at the very least, any illegal actions carried out by an extremeist minority should be denounced by the groups that are driving for the same cause within the boundaries of the law.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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Location: London, UK
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Location: London, UK
Posted:
I've actually been following this for a couple of years now, the BBC have had articles on it every few months as the protest group involved sink to new lows.
You forgot the threats to children
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4708677.stm
Seriously this has been a dispicable campaign against the farm and should be acknowledged as such no matter what your beliefs are. The failure of many in the animal rights movement to comdemn it makes it so that the public tars all of them with the same brush, which is to the detriment of their goals.
A perfect example of home-grown terrorism in my book
I've actually been following this for a couple of years now, the BBC have had articles on it every few months as the protest group involved sink to new lows.
Written by: coleman
there is (at the very least circumstantial) evidence to suggest that the spraypainting of cars and general vandalism to the surrounding village (arson attacks on the farm, spray painting of village signs and roads, the digging up of the village golf club, attacks on mr hall's local pub), violent attacks on homes and other personal property (in some cases leading to personal injury i.e. assault), hate campaigns (one of the farm's suppliers' employees found that his street had been flyered with leaflets that claimed he was on the sex offenders register and is still an active paedophile), constant harrassment and threatening behaviour (persistent threatening phone calls, hoax bombs, death threats) were carried out by animal rights extremists.
You forgot the threats to children
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4708677.stm
Seriously this has been a dispicable campaign against the farm and should be acknowledged as such no matter what your beliefs are. The failure of many in the animal rights movement to comdemn it makes it so that the public tars all of them with the same brush, which is to the detriment of their goals.
A perfect example of home-grown terrorism in my book
"Moo," said the happy cow.
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HOP Mad Doctor
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Posted:
I don't think it's come to murder yet, but it all reminds me of the whole abortion clinic shootings bit.
I don't think it's come to murder yet, but it all reminds me of the whole abortion clinic shootings bit.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
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Location: London, UK
Posted:
Yeah, it's a very similar issue in many ways, although I doubt the two sets of protesters would see it that
Yeah, it's a very similar issue in many ways, although I doubt the two sets of protesters would see it that
"Moo," said the happy cow.
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:
you say no group has claimed it yet there is one - im just trying to find the quote
also they have said they will continue to protest agasint the farm until it stops having animals at all
you say no group has claimed it yet there is one - im just trying to find the quote
Written by: the telegraph 24/08/05
The Halls have been receiving letters from a group calling itself the Animal Rights Militia (ARM), which claimed to have stolen the body and said it would return it once the farm closed
also they have said they will continue to protest agasint the farm until it stops having animals at all
back
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Posted:
Thats interesting.... does the farm have any other animal testing or are the ARM just running a hate campaign against the individuals?
Because if the farm stops selling animals for testing they still have to make a living even if it's your average farm produce or pet sales. Is that enough animal exploitation to warrant protest?
Thats interesting.... does the farm have any other animal testing or are the ARM just running a hate campaign against the individuals?
Because if the farm stops selling animals for testing they still have to make a living even if it's your average farm produce or pet sales. Is that enough animal exploitation to warrant protest?
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:
As said previously in the thread:
People claiming to be from ARM have given no evidence to say it was them in the way that usual groups claiming responsibility for things would do.
As said previously in the thread:
Written by: flid
If you can give me a link to a news story, that'd be great. The only thing I can find is about a of group that had never been heard of before sending letters with no proof of who they are or any evidence to say it was them. Hardly constitutes a creditable claim of responsibility.
People claiming to be from ARM have given no evidence to say it was them in the way that usual groups claiming responsibility for things would do.
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Posted:
OK flid fair point, but that doesn't really answer my question. Anyone saying they are going to continue a campaign against the farm after what it's been through can be considered abusive it's a bit more serious than a wind-up. (or where you talking about the story of responsibilty claim being a wind up
)
OK flid fair point, but that doesn't really answer my question. Anyone saying they are going to continue a campaign against the farm after what it's been through can be considered abusive it's a bit more serious than a wind-up. (or where you talking about the story of responsibilty claim being a wind up
) A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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big and good and broken
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Posted:
flid, apologies if this sounds confrontational or in any way aggressive - as you know i fully respect your views and appreciate your considered and insightful debate, but what you just said is dismissive and frankly, utterly wrong.
articles on the animal rights militia (arm)
according to the alf, the arm has been op[erating in england for the past 10 years
the reason no-one has come forward publically is because they would be arrested for this and past attacks that the the arm have claimed responsibility for.
the graverobbing is exactly the kind of intimidation tactic they have used in the past and there has been a claim of responsibility by them - since they have not denied that claim is genuine, i think we can safely accept that it was their doing.
if it was a 'wind up' by someone not trying to get the farm shut down as you suggest it might be - and personally i can't see how this could be in any way construed as that - it went disasterously wrong.
the effect it had was to distress the family to the point of them closing the farm's business which just happens to be the goal of the arm and the other extremeists terrorising the hall family and their relatives, acquantainces, business associates and employees.
i am not suggesting that all ar campaigners agree with the tactics employed by left-wing ar groups but high-level animal rights campaigners have still been hailing the closure of the farm as a 'victory', which gives the firm impression that they believe the ends justify the means.
this is a very disappointing and irresponsible position to take in my opinion.
case in point: the representative for the protesters in newchurch that i saw interviewed on channel 4 news said "we are not interested in how the hall's came to their decision, we are simply happy that they have decided to cease breeding guinea pigs for medical research."
cole. x
flid, apologies if this sounds confrontational or in any way aggressive - as you know i fully respect your views and appreciate your considered and insightful debate, but what you just said is dismissive and frankly, utterly wrong.
articles on the animal rights militia (arm)
according to the alf, the arm has been op[erating in england for the past 10 years
the reason no-one has come forward publically is because they would be arrested for this and past attacks that the the arm have claimed responsibility for.
the graverobbing is exactly the kind of intimidation tactic they have used in the past and there has been a claim of responsibility by them - since they have not denied that claim is genuine, i think we can safely accept that it was their doing.
if it was a 'wind up' by someone not trying to get the farm shut down as you suggest it might be - and personally i can't see how this could be in any way construed as that - it went disasterously wrong.
the effect it had was to distress the family to the point of them closing the farm's business which just happens to be the goal of the arm and the other extremeists terrorising the hall family and their relatives, acquantainces, business associates and employees.
i am not suggesting that all ar campaigners agree with the tactics employed by left-wing ar groups but high-level animal rights campaigners have still been hailing the closure of the farm as a 'victory', which gives the firm impression that they believe the ends justify the means.
this is a very disappointing and irresponsible position to take in my opinion.
case in point: the representative for the protesters in newchurch that i saw interviewed on channel 4 news said "we are not interested in how the hall's came to their decision, we are simply happy that they have decided to cease breeding guinea pigs for medical research."
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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Posted:
cheers for the links, my inaccurate post's been editted.
for a group which has no leaders or structure I'm not sure you can say this with any more certainty than saying that a group in the UK that perpetrates crimes and claims to be alqaeda is alqaeda, or I can claim to be Santa.
I agree, and this is not a group I've been involved with for the very reason that I don't think the campaign was really that important in the grand scheme of things. I'm all for education or encouraging people to think about thigs, but as said previously in the post the farm closing under these circumstances isn't a good thing or animal rights as a whole. A triumph would be if the customers were to stop using animals, as I'm sure they'll just source them elsewhere instead.
cheers for the links, my inaccurate post's been editted.
Written by: coleman
since they have not denied that claim is genuine, i think we can safely accept that it was their doing
for a group which has no leaders or structure I'm not sure you can say this with any more certainty than saying that a group in the UK that perpetrates crimes and claims to be alqaeda is alqaeda, or I can claim to be Santa.
Written by: Coleman
case in point: the representative for the protesters in newchurch that i saw interviewed on channel 4 news said "we are not interested in how the hall's came to their decision, we are simply happy that they have decided to cease breeding guinea pigs for medical research."
I agree, and this is not a group I've been involved with for the very reason that I don't think the campaign was really that important in the grand scheme of things. I'm all for education or encouraging people to think about thigs, but as said previously in the post the farm closing under these circumstances isn't a good thing or animal rights as a whole. A triumph would be if the customers were to stop using animals, as I'm sure they'll just source them elsewhere instead.
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HOP Mad Doctor
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Posted:
My personal point of view is that you should put your money where your mouth is.
Want to stop breeding for medical research? Boycott medical research.
In other words, refuse all medical treatment that had anything to do with animal research.
I'll warn you: it's about 99.999% of medicine, though.
My personal point of view is that you should put your money where your mouth is.
Want to stop breeding for medical research? Boycott medical research.
In other words, refuse all medical treatment that had anything to do with animal research.
I'll warn you: it's about 99.999% of medicine, though.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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Posted:
is that aimed at anyone?
Written by: Lightning
you
is that aimed at anyone?
SILVER Member
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big and good and broken
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Posted:
i find that anytime i start to feel paranoid about someone's posts, if i replace 'you' with 'one' it all goes fluffy again
a question possibly only you (yes, you not one) can answer flid is 'are all tablets/drugs vegan in their production?'.
further to that, if as a vegan, one chooses not to use cosmetics that have been tested on animals, why does the fact that drugs were developed partly by testing on animals not qualify them for boycott based on the same moral standpoint?
cole. x
i find that anytime i start to feel paranoid about someone's posts, if i replace 'you' with 'one' it all goes fluffy again
a question possibly only you (yes, you not one
) can answer flid is 'are all tablets/drugs vegan in their production?'.further to that, if as a vegan, one chooses not to use cosmetics that have been tested on animals, why does the fact that drugs were developed partly by testing on animals not qualify them for boycott based on the same moral standpoint?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
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old hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
Posted:
I thought we'd discussed all this before in t'other vegan threads?
And I can safely assure you that flid doesn't wear make up
I thought we'd discussed all this before in t'other vegan threads?
And I can safely assure you that flid doesn't wear make up
Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.
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Posted:
sir sheep i started this thread to voice my outrage at a corpse being dug up in the name of animal right and its the converstion has developed from there
sir sheep i started this thread to voice my outrage at a corpse being dug up in the name of animal right and its the converstion has developed from there
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
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Posted:
i thought at times like these you're supposed to just shout "DO A SEARCH!" and leave it at that
cheers for the heads up - i didn't realise it had been discussed already.
i'll go take a look at those threads and ask my questions there if necessary.
...or use soap or shampoo?
cole. x
i thought at times like these you're supposed to just shout "DO A SEARCH!" and leave it at that
cheers for the heads up - i didn't realise it had been discussed already.
i'll go take a look at those threads and ask my questions there if necessary.
Written by: Sir_Sheep
And I can safely assure you that flid doesn't wear make up
...or use soap or shampoo?
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
old hand
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
725 posts
Location: Chester, UK
Posted:
If he could get away with being a smelly, unwashed hippy, I'm sure he would
Written by: colemanWritten by: Sir_Sheep
And I can safely assure you that flid doesn't wear make up
...or use soap or shampoo?
cole. x
If he could get away with being a smelly, unwashed hippy, I'm sure he would
Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
haven't got time to reply properly now, but it has been discussed and the link to the thread that answers most questions is [Old link]
haven't got time to reply properly now, but it has been discussed and the link to the thread that answers most questions is [Old link]
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Posted:
thank-you
i don't have time to read it all now either but will definitely have a look sometime soon.
cole. x
thank-you
i don't have time to read it all now either but will definitely have a look sometime soon.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
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had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
An email I received at work today:
As I said... people I work with could be next...
An email I received at work today:
Written by:
Dear Colleague,
I am writing to advise you that on Saturday evening, a van belonging to a senior member of staff at an associated academic institution, which was parked outside his house on, was attacked by what is presumed to be animal rights activists. Paint was poured over the van, animal rights literature was left at the scene and a threatening note was left to the effect that his house would be next. Apparently the neighbouring house, which at the time was occupied by another member of staff at the same institution, was attacked a few weeks ago, but at the time the attack was not thought to be animal rights activity. The note left at the scene of Saturday's attack refers to the earlier incident so it seems likely that it was animal rights related.
As I said... people I work with could be next...
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
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Posted:
Loads of the more Active Protesters in the Animal Rights field are coming to a place called Wickham, just outside of Portsmouth, the Animal rights protesters already based there, who have been protesting peacefuly for 30 years are worried about popular interest by the wrong crowd, fair enough for peacful protest, I support it, but firebombing employe's property, desecrating graves, abuse on a personal level towards people who are only hired to do a job is wrong.
Loads of the more Active Protesters in the Animal Rights field are coming to a place called Wickham, just outside of Portsmouth, the Animal rights protesters already based there, who have been protesting peacefuly for 30 years are worried about popular interest by the wrong crowd, fair enough for peacful protest, I support it, but firebombing employe's property, desecrating graves, abuse on a personal level towards people who are only hired to do a job is wrong.
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Posted:
Apparently the police have arrested several people about the grave-robbing...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4285488.stm
Apparently the police have arrested several people about the grave-robbing...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/staffordshire/4285488.stm
"Moo," said the happy cow.
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4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht.../29/ixhome.html
Now some of them want a nursery to stop providing childcare for parents working at a company involved in animal testing... that's a bit low, telling the management off for accepting the "wrong" children - targetting children (even indirectly like this) is really poor.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht.../29/ixhome.html
Now some of them want a nursery to stop providing childcare for parents working at a company involved in animal testing... that's a bit low, telling the management off for accepting the "wrong" children - targetting children (even indirectly like this) is really poor.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
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Owner of Dragosani's left half
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HOP Mad Doctor
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Posted:
It doesn't surprise me that the ALF would rather save lab rats than children.
After all, how many kids would be alive if we could...say...grow new livers or kidneys or hearts for them?
None of which would, of couse, be possible without animal research.
It doesn't surprise me that the ALF would rather save lab rats than children.
After all, how many kids would be alive if we could...say...grow new livers or kidneys or hearts for them?
None of which would, of couse, be possible without animal research.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'd be willing to bet that if, for some reason, animal testing was abolished completely, medical progress would continue.
I'd be willing to bet that if, for some reason, animal testing was abolished completely, medical progress would continue.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
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Posted:
Barely. It would be virtually impossible to develop new procedures unless we allowed human testing.
Dave, I've done animal research, I'm a doctor, I've done molecular biology, I'm an expert on this. I don't like killing animals any more than the next guy, but there is no other way.
It's just fact.
Written by: onewheeldave
I'd be willing to bet that if, for some reason, animal testing was abolished completely, medical progress would continue.
Barely. It would be virtually impossible to develop new procedures unless we allowed human testing.
Dave, I've done animal research, I'm a doctor, I've done molecular biology, I'm an expert on this. I don't like killing animals any more than the next guy, but there is no other way.
It's just fact.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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Carpal \'Tunnel
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Posted:
Now there's a thought
Actually Mike, as you well know, even now, all drugs are currently tested in humans as the last stage of the research.
I said that if animal research was prohibited, I'd be willing to bet that medical progress would continue.
I stand by that, if I had to bet on one of the two possiblities-
1. medical research and progress would continue
and
2. research and progress would stop dead for all time
that it will be the first that is the case. I suspect that if you think about it, you'd bet the same way.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Written by: Doc Lightning
Barely. It would be virtually impossible to develop new procedures unless we allowed human testing.
Now there's a thought
Actually Mike, as you well know, even now, all drugs are currently tested in humans as the last stage of the research.
Written by: Doc Lightning
Dave, I've done animal research, I'm a doctor, I've done molecular biology, I'm an expert on this. I don't like killing animals any more than the next guy, but there is no other way.
It's just fact.
I said that if animal research was prohibited, I'd be willing to bet that medical progress would continue.
I stand by that, if I had to bet on one of the two possiblities-
1. medical research and progress would continue
and
2. research and progress would stop dead for all time
that it will be the first that is the case. I suspect that if you think about it, you'd bet the same way.
Necessity is the mother of invention.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
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big and good and broken
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Posted:
that's a bit of a polarised view dave.
how about this:
if animal research was prohibited, i'd be willing to bet that medical progress in many very important areas would slow down drastically - in some it would be suspended for the forseeable future until viable alternative testing methods are developed.
personal opinion: that is unacceptable to me.
i don't believe that carrying out pre-clinical trial drug research on humans is even remotely a realistic alternative - it is simply not feasible, from a medical, ethical or even numerical standpoint.
cole. x
that's a bit of a polarised view dave.
how about this:
if animal research was prohibited, i'd be willing to bet that medical progress in many very important areas would slow down drastically - in some it would be suspended for the forseeable future until viable alternative testing methods are developed.
personal opinion: that is unacceptable to me.
i don't believe that carrying out pre-clinical trial drug research on humans is even remotely a realistic alternative - it is simply not feasible, from a medical, ethical or even numerical standpoint.
cole. x
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GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
All of which is totally compatible with what I said in my post, which was simply that, if animal research ceased, medical progress would continue.
Of course it may slow down and progress less rapidly, especially initially; but it would, IMO, continue.
Note that, in that post, I'm not saying anything whatsoever about whether animal experimentation is good or bad, or offering an opinion on whether animal experimentation is good or bad- I'm simply saying that, if, for whatever reason, animal experimentation becomes impossible, then medical progress would continue.
I think thats's pretty much indisputable- to deny it is to say that; if animal experimentation ceases, then medical progress will simply halt, for all time- that's clearly nonsense.
As to what would be used instead, that's not really something I need to address- something would be used to ensure that progress and research continues.
Bear in mind that currently, medical research is founded on the principle that animal testing is acceptable and necessary. As far as I know all drugs have to be tested on animals, and it is illegal in the west to test a drug on humans without extensive testing on animals first.
However, if animal testing ceases to be an option ie no more animal testing, then humanity has two options-
1. cease developing medicines completely/stop medical progress
2. use methods which currently are seen as unacceptable/immoral/less effective
I think it's fair to say that humanity will go for 2.
Note again, that none of what I say above is offering an opinion on the rights and wrongs, or pros and cons, of animal research- simply stating my opinion of what will happen if animal research ceases.
As an analogy, most people think that cars are essential to maintain our society- without cars how would we commute 50 miles to work etc, how would we transport food.
Surely, without cars, society would collapse?
But think about it- if some strange alien device disabled all cars, for all time; would humanity sink to its knees and say, 'well that's that, we're finished now!' and roll over and die.
Of course not, things that were previously seen as impractical, such as everyone living within walking distance of their workplace, and food being grown close to where it will be consumed, will, by the sheer fact that cars are not an option will suddenly become, not just practical, but vital.
All of which is totally compatible with what I said in my post, which was simply that, if animal research ceased, medical progress would continue.
Of course it may slow down and progress less rapidly, especially initially; but it would, IMO, continue.
Note that, in that post, I'm not saying anything whatsoever about whether animal experimentation is good or bad, or offering an opinion on whether animal experimentation is good or bad- I'm simply saying that, if, for whatever reason, animal experimentation becomes impossible, then medical progress would continue.
I think thats's pretty much indisputable- to deny it is to say that; if animal experimentation ceases, then medical progress will simply halt, for all time- that's clearly nonsense.
As to what would be used instead, that's not really something I need to address- something would be used to ensure that progress and research continues.
Bear in mind that currently, medical research is founded on the principle that animal testing is acceptable and necessary. As far as I know all drugs have to be tested on animals, and it is illegal in the west to test a drug on humans without extensive testing on animals first.
However, if animal testing ceases to be an option ie no more animal testing, then humanity has two options-
1. cease developing medicines completely/stop medical progress
2. use methods which currently are seen as unacceptable/immoral/less effective
I think it's fair to say that humanity will go for 2.
Note again, that none of what I say above is offering an opinion on the rights and wrongs, or pros and cons, of animal research- simply stating my opinion of what will happen if animal research ceases.
As an analogy, most people think that cars are essential to maintain our society- without cars how would we commute 50 miles to work etc, how would we transport food.
Surely, without cars, society would collapse?
But think about it- if some strange alien device disabled all cars, for all time; would humanity sink to its knees and say, 'well that's that, we're finished now!' and roll over and die.
Of course not, things that were previously seen as impractical, such as everyone living within walking distance of their workplace, and food being grown close to where it will be consumed, will, by the sheer fact that cars are not an option will suddenly become, not just practical, but vital.
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SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
animal testing will not be banned without massive worldwide debate on the subject - they won't just stop it and say 'right, lets see what happens now'.
it is my view that animal testing would not be prohibited without a suitable way forward for medical research being identified first.
to approach it in any other way is highly negligent.
that is what made your 'bet' seem over-polarised and ultimately redundant to me.
cole. x
animal testing will not be banned without massive worldwide debate on the subject - they won't just stop it and say 'right, lets see what happens now'.
it is my view that animal testing would not be prohibited without a suitable way forward for medical research being identified first.
to approach it in any other way is highly negligent.
that is what made your 'bet' seem over-polarised and ultimately redundant to me.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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