Forums > Social Discussion > protesters going a step to far
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
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Posted:
recent news events have really got my back up so i thought id see what other people thought
a farmer and his family who breeds animals to be used in pharmasutical testing have been harrased by protesters to the degree that his granmother grave has been desicrated and her corpse removed in the name of animal rights this has come after a string of attacks by so called animal terroists who have caused distruction of property and general harrasment of this farmer and his family.
now i dont want to offend any one but in my view we need to test drugs to see if they cure weather it be on animals or humans frankly i dont care............
i can fully apriceate that these called animal terroists have they views and belive that they should stand up for animal rights what i dont agree with and this is my main grip with these arsholes is that they felt they had the right to desicrate a dead womans grave and steal the corpse in the name of animal welfare ........throwing eggs and smashing property is 1 thing but to do somthing like this in my opinion is bang out of order how would these people feel if i decided to dig up there granmothers in the name of egg rights which leads me to another point if they are so concerned with animal welfare why are they pelting eggs at this farmer and his family.
well that my ten pence worth
recent news events have really got my back up so i thought id see what other people thought
a farmer and his family who breeds animals to be used in pharmasutical testing have been harrased by protesters to the degree that his granmother grave has been desicrated and her corpse removed in the name of animal rights this has come after a string of attacks by so called animal terroists who have caused distruction of property and general harrasment of this farmer and his family.
now i dont want to offend any one but in my view we need to test drugs to see if they cure weather it be on animals or humans frankly i dont care............
i can fully apriceate that these called animal terroists have they views and belive that they should stand up for animal rights what i dont agree with and this is my main grip with these arsholes is that they felt they had the right to desicrate a dead womans grave and steal the corpse in the name of animal welfare ........throwing eggs and smashing property is 1 thing but to do somthing like this in my opinion is bang out of order how would these people feel if i decided to dig up there granmothers in the name of egg rights which leads me to another point if they are so concerned with animal welfare why are they pelting eggs at this farmer and his family.
well that my ten pence worth
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
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Posted:
Whole animal /testing area for me is a very fine line which I won't comment on, however the use of violence, intimidations and destruction of personal items to get over a point of view is not right.
Whole animal /testing area for me is a very fine line which I won't comment on, however the use of violence, intimidations and destruction of personal items to get over a point of view is not right.
Just because I'm an adult doesn't make me responsible.
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Posted:
Absolute
Dirt-Bags!! Something is severly wrong if people will do this just to make a point!!! SICK!!!
Written by: el ginger 1
his granmother grave has been desicrated and her corpse removed in the name of animal rights
Absolute
Dirt-Bags!! Something is severly wrong if people will do this just to make a point!!! SICK!!! You'll find me on the dance floor
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Posted:
what proof do you have of this? Speculation is a dangerous thing. As far as I know no individual or group has claimed responsibility, been caught or had any evidence found against them. No animal rights activist I've ever met would support or be crazy/twisted enough to do this, there's no evidence at the moment it wasn't done by someone else trying to tarnish the creditability animal rights activists (it happened lets not forget at the heat of the fox hunting ban debate when pro hunt supporters were dumping dead animals on highstreets).
There's already quite in depth discussions on this forum about people's views on animal testing for medical and non medical research.
In the context of this thread, personally I've never been involved in the campaign against this particular farm, and I have no reason to beleive it's any worse than any farm in this country raising animals (which personally i'd like to see an end to all of). Sure guinea pigs are cute, but I don't value them as more important than pigs or cows.
I don't think the closure of newchurch is anything to celebrate from an animal rights point of view, the labs using the animals will probably just buy from other suppliers or countries now, where standards could be worse than the UK. A triumph for animal rights is when public opinion swings in favour and things happen as a result, this is not that moment. The people I feel most sorry for are the vast majority of AR campaigners who don't beleive in violence, hate campaigns etc (as they are the ones which actually bring about change slowely), and I'm glad the media isn't making as big a deal out of this as they have done in the past.
Written by: el ginger 1
to the degree that his granmother grave has been desicrated and her corpse removed in the name of animal rights
what proof do you have of this? Speculation is a dangerous thing. As far as I know no individual or group has claimed responsibility, been caught or had any evidence found against them. No animal rights activist I've ever met would support or be crazy/twisted enough to do this, there's no evidence at the moment it wasn't done by someone else trying to tarnish the creditability animal rights activists (it happened lets not forget at the heat of the fox hunting ban debate when pro hunt supporters were dumping dead animals on highstreets).
There's already quite in depth discussions on this forum about people's views on animal testing for medical and non medical research.
In the context of this thread, personally I've never been involved in the campaign against this particular farm, and I have no reason to beleive it's any worse than any farm in this country raising animals (which personally i'd like to see an end to all of). Sure guinea pigs are cute, but I don't value them as more important than pigs or cows.
I don't think the closure of newchurch is anything to celebrate from an animal rights point of view, the labs using the animals will probably just buy from other suppliers or countries now, where standards could be worse than the UK. A triumph for animal rights is when public opinion swings in favour and things happen as a result, this is not that moment. The people I feel most sorry for are the vast majority of AR campaigners who don't beleive in violence, hate campaigns etc (as they are the ones which actually bring about change slowely), and I'm glad the media isn't making as big a deal out of this as they have done in the past.
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Posted:
Didn't one group state that the bones would be returned after the factory closed down....
Only stating what I heard on the news.
Didn't one group state that the bones would be returned after the factory closed down....
Only stating what I heard on the news.
Just because I'm an adult doesn't make me responsible.
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Posted:
If you can give me a link to a news story, that'd be great. The only thing I can find is about a of group that had never been heard of before sending letters with no proof of who they are or any evidence to say it was them. Hardly constitutes a creditable claim of responsibility.
EDITED_BY: flid (1124887687)
If you can give me a link to a news story, that'd be great. The only thing I can find is about a of group that had never been heard of before sending letters with no proof of who they are or any evidence to say it was them. Hardly constitutes a creditable claim of responsibility.
EDITED_BY: flid (1124887687)
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Posted:
im not saying that all protesters are like this .......
the point im trying to make is that is all very well protetsing againt somthing you feel is wrong, injust or immoral but when it is taken to a degree where they feel that they need to desicrate a grave i feel that this is wrong injust and immoral
and i dont usally get my back up about these sorts of issues but this really made me see red surly if these people belive in right for animals then surly they must belive in the right to rest in peace
im not saying that all protesters are like this .......
the point im trying to make is that is all very well protetsing againt somthing you feel is wrong, injust or immoral but when it is taken to a degree where they feel that they need to desicrate a grave i feel that this is wrong injust and immoral
and i dont usally get my back up about these sorts of issues but this really made me see red surly if these people belive in right for animals then surly they must belive in the right to rest in peace
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
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Posted:
flid ... bbc news page
here's the news story, not sure if 1 group has claimed yet, but flid do you really believe a group (not your normal animal rights people who wave banners and stroke lentils) who commit arson attacks etc, REALLY didn't steal the body. the body was stolen "fact".
I suppose some random could have accidently dug up a relative of the business under such duress, but come on, trying to blame anti-anti-animal research groups is getting a bit silly, could it not have been an anti-anti-anti-animal reaserch group? I live in the new forest and have seen how psycotic animal welfare groups get to the extent that to save 1 fox the idiots have crippled 4 horses. (shows how bright they CAN be)
I'm ALL for animal rights but the group involved here are F*cking loonies giving them a bad name but still loonies.
flid ... bbc news page
here's the news story, not sure if 1 group has claimed yet, but flid do you really believe a group (not your normal animal rights people who wave banners and stroke lentils) who commit arson attacks etc, REALLY didn't steal the body. the body was stolen "fact".
I suppose some random could have accidently dug up a relative of the business under such duress, but come on, trying to blame anti-anti-animal research groups is getting a bit silly, could it not have been an anti-anti-anti-animal reaserch group? I live in the new forest and have seen how psycotic animal welfare groups get to the extent that to save 1 fox the idiots have crippled 4 horses. (shows how bright they CAN be)
I'm ALL for animal rights but the group involved here are F*cking loonies giving them a bad name but still loonies.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Posted:
flid is right - there is no claim of responsibility for the grave robbing.
personally, i think the claim that an attack like this could have been carried out by pro-vivisectionists trying to tarnish the ar groups' reputations is even more unlikely - but that is just my opinion.
circumstantial evidence seems to very much point towards anti-vivesection activists since the letter the halls received after the graverobbing incident offered "part of the remains back in exchange for the closure of the farm".
not to mention the fact that a farm employee was later sent a letter telling her to quit her job or her recently deceased husbands' body would be next suggests it has something to do with the anti-vivesection activists - i don't see how that action could possibly further the pro-vivesection cause at all.
there is (at the very least circumstantial) evidence to suggest that the spraypainting of cars and general vandalism to the surrounding village (arson attacks on the farm, spray painting of village signs and roads, the digging up of the village golf club, attacks on mr hall's local pub), violent attacks on homes and other personal property (in some cases leading to personal injury i.e. assault), hate campaigns (one of the farm's suppliers' employees found that his street had been flyered with leaflets that claimed he was on the sex offenders register and is still an active paedophile), constant harrassment and threatening behaviour (persistent threatening phone calls, hoax bombs, death threats) were carried out by animal rights extremists.
this is a sad day.
this change has not been brought about by a change in opinion nor through a change in the law - definitely not as a result of legal, peaceful protest.
this is a case of narrowly directed terrorism winning through and it disgusts me.
cole. x
flid is right - there is no claim of responsibility for the grave robbing.
personally, i think the claim that an attack like this could have been carried out by pro-vivisectionists trying to tarnish the ar groups' reputations is even more unlikely - but that is just my opinion.
circumstantial evidence seems to very much point towards anti-vivesection activists since the letter the halls received after the graverobbing incident offered "part of the remains back in exchange for the closure of the farm".
not to mention the fact that a farm employee was later sent a letter telling her to quit her job or her recently deceased husbands' body would be next suggests it has something to do with the anti-vivesection activists - i don't see how that action could possibly further the pro-vivesection cause at all.
there is (at the very least circumstantial) evidence to suggest that the spraypainting of cars and general vandalism to the surrounding village (arson attacks on the farm, spray painting of village signs and roads, the digging up of the village golf club, attacks on mr hall's local pub), violent attacks on homes and other personal property (in some cases leading to personal injury i.e. assault), hate campaigns (one of the farm's suppliers' employees found that his street had been flyered with leaflets that claimed he was on the sex offenders register and is still an active paedophile), constant harrassment and threatening behaviour (persistent threatening phone calls, hoax bombs, death threats) were carried out by animal rights extremists.
this is a sad day.
this change has not been brought about by a change in opinion nor through a change in the law - definitely not as a result of legal, peaceful protest.
this is a case of narrowly directed terrorism winning through and it disgusts me.
cole. x
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Posted:
Didn't want to offend anyone, but I have seen banner waving peace loving animal rights groups turn into a blood thirsty mob... WITH MY OWN EYES, whose to say 1 group didn't get carried away. anti-anti-animal rights groups would not want to shut down the farm to discredit it thats just silly. surely that would point to 1 group being crazy and your normal protesters being correct in their judgement and methods.
protesters are normally quite right but every group has it's extremists, no-one is saying animal rights protesters on the whole are wrong just this crazy bunch on the news
Didn't want to offend anyone, but I have seen banner waving peace loving animal rights groups turn into a blood thirsty mob... WITH MY OWN EYES, whose to say 1 group didn't get carried away. anti-anti-animal rights groups would not want to shut down the farm to discredit it thats just silly. surely that would point to 1 group being crazy and your normal protesters being correct in their judgement and methods.
protesters are normally quite right but every group has it's extremists, no-one is saying animal rights protesters on the whole are wrong just this crazy bunch on the news
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Posted:
so answer me this when one of these protesters becomes ill does this mean that they will refuse drugs that will help and cure them because they may have been tested on an animal hmmm
some how i dont think they will
so answer me this when one of these protesters becomes ill does this mean that they will refuse drugs that will help and cure them because they may have been tested on an animal hmmm
some how i dont think they will
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
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Posted:
My point was that there's no evidence. Circumstantial evidence should be treated as what it is: circumstantial. What I beleive or disbelieve is irrelevant to fact.
I believe they could have done. I must also point out the fact that I've never met a dedicated AR campaigner who is or has violent tendancies. Some people comit crime in the name or animal rights, but they are no better than those who comit crime in the name of religion. There's certainly an element of that in the AR movement, and it's sad that the paper selling media latch onto them as the voice of it.
Why? There's nothing pro hunt supporters would have liked more at the time than to discredit the work of animal rights activists and make the public think animal rights campaigners were the sort of people to do these things. I'm not saying I think it was pro hunt supporters who did it, but I don't think it should be ruled out until the case is cleared up.
Whoever perpetrated this clearly was looking for a reaction, whatever their motive or however messed up they were. I think it's important to keep a clear mind and approach the situation logically, not let gut feelings and acusations rule. To blame the AR community for it is no better than to blame the muslim community for the recent acts of a minority.
My point was that there's no evidence. Circumstantial evidence should be treated as what it is: circumstantial. What I beleive or disbelieve is irrelevant to fact.
Written by: Mynci
but flid do you really believe a group (not your normal animal rights people who wave banners and stroke lentils) who commit arson attacks etc, REALLY didn't steal the body
I believe they could have done. I must also point out the fact that I've never met a dedicated AR campaigner who is or has violent tendancies. Some people comit crime in the name or animal rights, but they are no better than those who comit crime in the name of religion. There's certainly an element of that in the AR movement, and it's sad that the paper selling media latch onto them as the voice of it.
Written by: Mynci
trying to blame anti-anti-animal research groups is getting a bit silly
Why? There's nothing pro hunt supporters would have liked more at the time than to discredit the work of animal rights activists and make the public think animal rights campaigners were the sort of people to do these things. I'm not saying I think it was pro hunt supporters who did it, but I don't think it should be ruled out until the case is cleared up.
Whoever perpetrated this clearly was looking for a reaction, whatever their motive or however messed up they were. I think it's important to keep a clear mind and approach the situation logically, not let gut feelings and acusations rule. To blame the AR community for it is no better than to blame the muslim community for the recent acts of a minority.
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Posted:
A view from the other side of the fence...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4178166.stm
Have never thought about the protesters throwing eggs for animal rights - I think it's a very good point, and quite sad, too. I saw an interview with one of the activists last night, and though I could see some of her points, they were all very black and white, like using 2 examples where animal testing didn't predict adverse reactions in humans to say all animal testing is useless etc. I won't go further into any of this though since we've had the whole animal experiments discussion in another thread.
Flid, you are absolutely right, research will just use animals from another source, and unfortunately few countries have as many restrictions and policies to reduce animal suffering as the UK has.
I'm just really disgusted at how people have been terrorised just for doing their job, which (from their perspective) they were doing to help other people. It reminds me that this could happen to a lot of people I know any day. I wonder if those aggressive energies couldn't be invested better somewhere else.
A view from the other side of the fence...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4178166.stm
Have never thought about the protesters throwing eggs for animal rights - I think it's a very good point, and quite sad, too. I saw an interview with one of the activists last night, and though I could see some of her points, they were all very black and white, like using 2 examples where animal testing didn't predict adverse reactions in humans to say all animal testing is useless etc. I won't go further into any of this though since we've had the whole animal experiments discussion in another thread.
Flid, you are absolutely right, research will just use animals from another source, and unfortunately few countries have as many restrictions and policies to reduce animal suffering as the UK has.
I'm just really disgusted at how people have been terrorised just for doing their job, which (from their perspective) they were doing to help other people. It reminds me that this could happen to a lot of people I know any day. I wonder if those aggressive energies couldn't be invested better somewhere else.
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Posted:
As mentioned previously in this thread, you're straying onto a topic that has been discussed in length previously on this board. The link is [Old link].
EDITED_BY: flid (1124891189)
Written by: el ginger 1
so answer me this when one of these protesters becomes ill does this mean that they will refuse drugs that will help and cure them
As mentioned previously in this thread, you're straying onto a topic that has been discussed in length previously on this board. The link is [Old link].
EDITED_BY: flid (1124891189)
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Posted:
well, there is the counter argument that there are no drugs for them (them specifically being the 'anti drug development vivisectionists') to choose that have not been animal tested.
but personally, i think that argument is exteremely weak.
their standpoint is 'no animal testing for drug development - full stop' which means if they get their way, i would not get the choice of having all the extra drugs that might be found and tested on animals in the future.
so its a choice one way or the other.
since they choose to take drugs tested on animals until their goal is reached i don't see how it is fair that they push the decision to not test *any* drugs on animals in the future onto me and the rest of the nation/world.
the abandonment of vivisection in drug development - especially right now - could easily cause research into a potentially life-saving/life-improving drug to be abandoned because non-animal testing costs are prohibitive and very few other methods are as reliable as vivisection.
cole. x
red denotes an edited-in addition to improve the clarity of my statements.
full sentence structures are very important in this day and age
EDITED_BY: coleman (1124895450)
Written by: el ginger 1
so answer me this when one of these protesters becomes ill does this mean that they will refuse drugs that will help and cure them because they may have been tested on an animal hmmm
well, there is the counter argument that there are no drugs for them (them specifically being the 'anti drug development vivisectionists') to choose that have not been animal tested.
but personally, i think that argument is exteremely weak.
their standpoint is 'no animal testing for drug development - full stop' which means if they get their way, i would not get the choice of having all the extra drugs that might be found and tested on animals in the future.
so its a choice one way or the other.
since they choose to take drugs tested on animals until their goal is reached i don't see how it is fair that they push the decision to not test *any* drugs on animals in the future onto me and the rest of the nation/world.
the abandonment of vivisection in drug development - especially right now - could easily cause research into a potentially life-saving/life-improving drug to be abandoned because non-animal testing costs are prohibitive and very few other methods are as reliable as vivisection.
cole. x
red denotes an edited-in addition to improve the clarity of my statements.
full sentence structures are very important in this day and age
EDITED_BY: coleman (1124895450)
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Posted:
Anyone seriously passionate about AR will put their money where their mouth is and become vegan. Anyone who throws eggs isn't vegan, nuff said
who are they? I think you may be in danger of over generalising. I know for a fact that not all AR activists believe in an all out ban on vivisection for medical research, I doubt it's even 50%, but that's speculation. My personal opnion on the matter is discussed in the thread linked to above.
EDITED_BY: flid (1124891076)
Written by: Birgit
Have never thought about the protesters throwing eggs for animal rights
Anyone seriously passionate about AR will put their money where their mouth is and become vegan. Anyone who throws eggs isn't vegan, nuff said
Written by: coleman
their
who are they? I think you may be in danger of over generalising. I know for a fact that not all AR activists believe in an all out ban on vivisection for medical research, I doubt it's even 50%, but that's speculation. My personal opnion on the matter is discussed in the thread linked to above.
EDITED_BY: flid (1124891076)
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Posted:
Flid I think the point of this thread is that someones grandmother was dug up, AS WELL AS testing (one of the extremists in this case)... if that link isn't based upon exhumation....well. all he did was ask 1 question about medicines based on testing there's no need to be rude.
Flid I think the point of this thread is that someones grandmother was dug up, AS WELL AS testing (one of the extremists in this case)... if that link isn't based upon exhumation....well. all he did was ask 1 question about medicines based on testing there's no need to be rude.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
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Posted:
the reason the media have latched onto it flid is because it is these people that have brought about the decision to stop the breeding of guinea pigs at darley oaks.
i do not believe the majoprity of the ar movement in general believe these actions are acceptable.
but i firmly believe that there is a sliding scale within the movement as to what is acceptable in the name of animal rights protest and that many condone illegal activity in some shape or form.
vandalism, tresspass and harassment may be lesser crimes than graverobbing but they are still crimes and i have seen a large amount of support from the ar movement for these types of activities.
cole. x
Written by: flid
Some people comit crime in the name or animal rights, but they are no better than those who comit crime in the name of religion. There's certainly an element of that in the AR movement, and it's sad that the paper selling media latch onto them as the voice of it.
the reason the media have latched onto it flid is because it is these people that have brought about the decision to stop the breeding of guinea pigs at darley oaks.
i do not believe the majoprity of the ar movement in general believe these actions are acceptable.
but i firmly believe that there is a sliding scale within the movement as to what is acceptable in the name of animal rights protest and that many condone illegal activity in some shape or form.
vandalism, tresspass and harassment may be lesser crimes than graverobbing but they are still crimes and i have seen a large amount of support from the ar movement for these types of activities.
cole. x
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Posted:
my appologies if it was interpriated as being rude, I have modified my words slightly. The simple question asked however I feel was quite an indepth question (and off topic to the original post of this thread), which we have discussed at length in the past (and upto fairly recently). If after reading the thread more needs to be said, that's the right place for questions/comments.
Written by: Mynci
well. all he did was ask 1 question about medicines based on testing there's no need to be rude.
my appologies if it was interpriated as being rude, I have modified my words slightly. The simple question asked however I feel was quite an indepth question (and off topic to the original post of this thread), which we have discussed at length in the past (and upto fairly recently). If after reading the thread more needs to be said, that's the right place for questions/comments.
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Posted:
ahh, i think you may be in danger of assuming that i am over generalising
what i am guilty of is under-specification as when i was referring to 'their' i meant anti-vivisectionists, not the animal rights movement at large.
my last post however, as is clearly stated, is a comment on the ar movement and the people within it, as a whole.
i stand by the opinions i set out in both of those posts.
cole. x
Written by: flid
who are they? I think you may be in danger of over generalising. I know for a fact that not all AR activists believe in an all out ban on vivisection for medical research, I doubt it's even 50%, but that's speculation.
ahh, i think you may be in danger of assuming that i am over generalising
what i am guilty of is under-specification as when i was referring to 'their' i meant anti-vivisectionists, not the animal rights movement at large.
my last post however, as is clearly stated, is a comment on the ar movement and the people within it, as a whole.
i stand by the opinions i set out in both of those posts.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Thank you flid, I understand as this is an emotional topic.
Thank you flid, I understand as this is an emotional topic.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
cool, thanks for clearing it up. I'd personally say there's different types of anti-vivisectionalists (eg anti costmetics, anti non medical, anti non life threatening medical, anti commercial drug etc), just as there are different types of anti-war people (anti starting war, anti self defense, anti wars sanctioned illegal by the UN etc). Not all anti-vivisectionists are anti-vivisection full stop.
Couldn't agree more, a crime is a crime, except I seen a no larger amount of support for them in the AR community than I have hooliganism in the football community.
Written by: Coleman
i stand by the opinions i set out in both of those posts.
cool, thanks for clearing it up. I'd personally say there's different types of anti-vivisectionalists (eg anti costmetics, anti non medical, anti non life threatening medical, anti commercial drug etc), just as there are different types of anti-war people (anti starting war, anti self defense, anti wars sanctioned illegal by the UN etc). Not all anti-vivisectionists are anti-vivisection full stop.
Written by: Coleman
vandalism, tresspass and harassment may be lesser crimes than graverobbing but they are still crimes and i have seen a large amount of support from the ar movement for these types of activities.
Couldn't agree more, a crime is a crime, except I seen a no larger amount of support for them in the AR community than I have hooliganism in the football community.
BRONZE Member
member
110 posts
Location: my own little planet of gingerness, United Kingdom
member
110 posts
Location: my own little planet of gingerness, United Kingdom
Posted:
you belive that this action could have been conducted by people who want to discredit ar activists and belive this because no one has been named or come forward to comitting this atrocity and that it is speculation by the media and what peopl read in to it. i can understand where you are coming from but as coleman has pointed out that every group has its exstimists
so is it no possible that some individuals that belive in animal rights have taken there protest to far by diging up and removing a corpse to get the way in my view they are no different to islamic extrimists blowing people up
EDITED_BY: el ginger 1 (1124893355)
you belive that this action could have been conducted by people who want to discredit ar activists and belive this because no one has been named or come forward to comitting this atrocity and that it is speculation by the media and what peopl read in to it. i can understand where you are coming from but as coleman has pointed out that every group has its exstimists
so is it no possible that some individuals that belive in animal rights have taken there protest to far by diging up and removing a corpse to get the way in my view they are no different to islamic extrimists blowing people up
EDITED_BY: el ginger 1 (1124893355)
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
BRONZE Member
member
110 posts
Location: my own little planet of gingerness, United Kingdom
member
110 posts
Location: my own little planet of gingerness, United Kingdom
Posted:
flid you cause me no offence in slightest for i am ginger and cannot be offended
EDITED_BY: el ginger 1 (1124893112)
flid you cause me no offence in slightest for i am ginger and cannot be offended
EDITED_BY: el ginger 1 (1124893112)
i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
just in case anyone's interested, I just got emailed a link to the "research defence society"... they have quite a lot of info on animal research in the UK. Can move it to the actual animal research thread, but it seems a bit silly to reactivate that while the discussion is going on in here
https://www.rds-net.org.uk/pages/home.asp?i_ToolbarID=8&i_PageID=94
Flid, I agree with your comparison of extremist animal right activists to football hooligans. It's part of the responsibility of moderate football fans though to keep the people around them from making situations escalate, and so whenever football fans injure others the whole fan club / nation of supporters suffers. It's the same with the animal rights activists, and while I feel sorry for anyone who supports peaceful demonstration that their reputation has been damaged, those who have been standing by, maybe in the same organisation, and did not try to keep this amount of threats and violent anger going on for six years deserve any bad reputation they can get. There were so many people on the news who basically said "no, I never threatened anyone, but I don't give a fxxk if other people do" It doesn't make it more acceptable just because other people (hooligans, supporters of terrorism etc) do it, too. In contrast, I think that when you're fighting for a moral issue you should apply high moral standards to your own community.
just in case anyone's interested, I just got emailed a link to the "research defence society"... they have quite a lot of info on animal research in the UK. Can move it to the actual animal research thread, but it seems a bit silly to reactivate that while the discussion is going on in here
https://www.rds-net.org.uk/pages/home.asp?i_ToolbarID=8&i_PageID=94
Flid, I agree with your comparison of extremist animal right activists to football hooligans. It's part of the responsibility of moderate football fans though to keep the people around them from making situations escalate, and so whenever football fans injure others the whole fan club / nation of supporters suffers. It's the same with the animal rights activists, and while I feel sorry for anyone who supports peaceful demonstration that their reputation has been damaged, those who have been standing by, maybe in the same organisation, and did not try to keep this amount of threats and violent anger going on for six years deserve any bad reputation they can get. There were so many people on the news who basically said "no, I never threatened anyone, but I don't give a fxxk if other people do"
It doesn't make it more acceptable just because other people (hooligans, supporters of terrorism etc) do it, too. In contrast, I think that when you're fighting for a moral issue you should apply high moral standards to your own community. "vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
that's right and i guess i was over generalising - my apologies
i have edited that post so that it now expresses my opinion more clearly on the counter argument that is touted by many if not most 'anti drug development vivisectionists'.
then you haven't been listening that hard i guess.
i have heard several animal rights activists support and even condone many of the 'lesser' criminal activities carried out by the extremist members of the movement.
examples of these lesser crimes are things such as throwing paint onto fur wearers, trespass in order to sabotage hunts, vandalism to the propety of those involved in the breeding of animals for drugs testing.
like i said, there seems to be a sliding scale within the movement of exactly which illegal activities are acceptable in the name of animal rights and which are not.
more specifically, if you watched channel four news last night you would have seen the representative for the animal rights group leading the campaign against darley oak (apologies, i can't remember the group's name) repeatedly refused to directly condemn activities such as the spraypainting of cars.
she also failed to respond to the accusation that posted on her group's website were statements to the effect of 'the killers must be stopped - the phone terrorism must continue' along with a phone number of a farm's employee and instrcutions to 'call incessently'.
harassment is illegal yet it seems its not just the extremeists that think this is an acceptable tactic to further the cause.
cole. x
Written by: flid
I'd personally say there's different types of anti-vivisectionalists (eg anti costmetics, anti non medical, anti non life threatening medical, anti commercial drug etc) ... Not all anti-vivisectionists are anti-vivisection full stop.
that's right and i guess i was over generalising - my apologies
i have edited that post so that it now expresses my opinion more clearly on the counter argument that is touted by many if not most 'anti drug development vivisectionists'.
Written by: flidWritten by: coleman
vandalism, tresspass and harassment may be lesser crimes than graverobbing but they are still crimes and i have seen a large amount of support from the ar movement for these types of activities.
Couldn't agree more, a crime is a crime, except I seen a no larger amount of support for them in the AR community than I have hooliganism in the football community.
then you haven't been listening that hard i guess.
i have heard several animal rights activists support and even condone many of the 'lesser' criminal activities carried out by the extremist members of the movement.
examples of these lesser crimes are things such as throwing paint onto fur wearers, trespass in order to sabotage hunts, vandalism to the propety of those involved in the breeding of animals for drugs testing.
like i said, there seems to be a sliding scale within the movement of exactly which illegal activities are acceptable in the name of animal rights and which are not.
more specifically, if you watched channel four news last night you would have seen the representative for the animal rights group leading the campaign against darley oak (apologies, i can't remember the group's name) repeatedly refused to directly condemn activities such as the spraypainting of cars.
she also failed to respond to the accusation that posted on her group's website were statements to the effect of 'the killers must be stopped - the phone terrorism must continue' along with a phone number of a farm's employee and instrcutions to 'call incessently'.
harassment is illegal yet it seems its not just the extremeists that think this is an acceptable tactic to further the cause.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Well said, i think that's a great sentiment to have Birgit. Groups with self moderation and policing I'm sure must earn greater respect from non-peer groups for keeping control of the issues and behaviour of members.
Well said, i think that's a great sentiment to have Birgit. Groups with self moderation and policing I'm sure must earn greater respect from non-peer groups for keeping control of the issues and behaviour of members.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
But why don't they ever throw paint onto Hell's Angels?
Written by: coleman
examples of these lesser crimes are things such as throwing paint onto fur wearers...
But why don't they ever throw paint onto Hell's Angels?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
do hell angels wear fur? Many flakey vegetarians see leather as being a by product of the beef industry, where as fur is seen as a luxury item by most, particularly if from an endangered species. As far as leather usage goes, I doubt the hells angels account for more than most people owning leather sofas/car seats
do hell angels wear fur? Many flakey vegetarians see leather as being a by product of the beef industry, where as fur is seen as a luxury item by most, particularly if from an endangered species. As far as leather usage goes, I doubt the hells angels account for more than most people owning leather sofas/car seats
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
the hells angels don't even compare to the amount of leather worn on the feet of our faithful bobbies up and down the country.
but is there a big leather trade separate from the beef industry?
i'm not sure...
cole. x
the hells angels don't even compare to the amount of leather worn on the feet of our faithful bobbies up and down the country.
but is there a big leather trade separate from the beef industry?
i'm not sure...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
i agree with what you've said. The point of my posts was to not rule out any options and to prevent the blame being put onto a large group of people. I agree there are extremists in any group, whether that be activists, religious followers, coal miners, bus drivers, primary school teachers etc, and in this case it could have been extremists/criminals acting under the name of AR. I agree that they should be found and tried under the law for their crimes, I don't agree with their 'tactics' in any shape or form.
i agree with what you've said. The point of my posts was to not rule out any options and to prevent the blame being put onto a large group of people. I agree there are extremists in any group, whether that be activists, religious followers, coal miners, bus drivers, primary school teachers etc, and in this case it could have been extremists/criminals acting under the name of AR. I agree that they should be found and tried under the law for their crimes, I don't agree with their 'tactics' in any shape or form.
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