Forums > Technical Discussion > fuels that disolve glue
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
im making some fire eating torches and ive done the searches and read the posts. i found a lot of great info from them. i did come across a post that mentioned a person having problems with their kero desolving the glue that was holding their wicks on. is this an isolated incident or has anyone else had a similar experiance. i dont want my colman fuel disovling glue into my mouth. i was planning on using white glue. the kind you use as a kid in school. is parrafin a beeter fuel option? any advice would be helpful. thanks.
im making some fire eating torches and ive done the searches and read the posts. i found a lot of great info from them. i did come across a post that mentioned a person having problems with their kero desolving the glue that was holding their wicks on. is this an isolated incident or has anyone else had a similar experiance. i dont want my colman fuel disovling glue into my mouth. i was planning on using white glue. the kind you use as a kid in school. is parrafin a beeter fuel option? any advice would be helpful. thanks.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
Well, the good news is that if you use Elmer's, it is non-toxic, so you should be more worried about the fuel than that particular glue.
Well, the good news is that if you use Elmer's, it is non-toxic, so you should be more worried about the fuel than that particular glue.
GOLD Member
ARRRR!
529 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
ARRRR!
529 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
I use Elmers glue on a few of my wicks and have never had a problem with it dissolving. The only fuels I use are kerosene, white gas and denatured alcohol.
What do you need glue for if you are building fire eating torches? You can bolt down the first few layers, wrap a layer around that and sew it down with kevlar thread. No glue needed and no exposed metal.
I use Elmers glue on a few of my wicks and have never had a problem with it dissolving. The only fuels I use are kerosene, white gas and denatured alcohol.
What do you need glue for if you are building fire eating torches? You can bolt down the first few layers, wrap a layer around that and sew it down with kevlar thread. No glue needed and no exposed metal.
"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
well, its good to know that the glue wont hurt me. my big concern is pulling the rod away and ending up with a mouth full of burning wick. i know thats kind of the point of eating fire but i would like to choose when the wick goes in my mouth.
well, its good to know that the glue wont hurt me. my big concern is pulling the rod away and ending up with a mouth full of burning wick. i know thats kind of the point of eating fire but i would like to choose when the wick goes in my mouth.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
the rods im using are to thin to bolt. ive taken grill tools and cut the heads off. the end result is a rod about twice the thickness of a coat hanger and has a nice handle. by the way how do you like the denatured alcohol? ive never tried it.
the rods im using are to thin to bolt. ive taken grill tools and cut the heads off. the end result is a rod about twice the thickness of a coat hanger and has a nice handle. by the way how do you like the denatured alcohol? ive never tried it.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
GOLD Member
ARRRR!
529 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
ARRRR!
529 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
Denatured alcohol is a lot like white gas with a low flash point. It's pretty toxic stuff because it usually contains methanol
and or methyl ethyl ketone so you don't want to use it for eating or get it on your skin. I use it primarily for mixing other chemicals to produce colors.
If the rods are too thin to bolt then Elmers glue will probably work at the base. Stitch it together on top and you shouldn't have a problem.
Denatured alcohol is a lot like white gas with a low flash point. It's pretty toxic stuff because it usually contains methanol
and or methyl ethyl ketone so you don't want to use it for eating or get it on your skin. I use it primarily for mixing other chemicals to produce colors.
If the rods are too thin to bolt then Elmers glue will probably work at the base. Stitch it together on top and you shouldn't have a problem.
"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
use epoxy..the silver metalworking stuff..once it sets it doesnt go away...ever...
use epoxy..the silver metalworking stuff..once it sets it doesnt go away...ever...
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
enthusiast
328 posts
Location: uk
328 posts
Location: uk
Posted:
I would seriously consider finding tubular alliminium 8-10 mm and using hard fixing for wick attachment, I make all my own tools and would not consider glue for anything else than wick sealing, I've read and heard some bad things about detached wicking and fire eating,
mark
I would seriously consider finding tubular alliminium 8-10 mm and using hard fixing for wick attachment, I make all my own tools and would not consider glue for anything else than wick sealing, I've read and heard some bad things about detached wicking and fire eating,
mark
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Pooh-Bah
2,014 posts
Location: Galveston, TX, USA
Posted:
Have you actually tested to see if the Elmer's will even stick to your rod? From what I recall, you can easily peel it off of some metal surfaces.
Have you actually tested to see if the Elmer's will even stick to your rod? From what I recall, you can easily peel it off of some metal surfaces.
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
i thought about that. im giving it a test go right now. ill definatly make sure that i give it some good abuse before using it in fire eating. i got the rod idea from one of pele's posts, i cant remember which one. she explained the idea but didnt go in depth on the construction methods. the thin tubing sounds like a great idea. if this test is a bust then ill go to my local hardware and see what they have. i hope it works though because the ready made handle are a nice touch. the epoxy sounds like a good idea too. i wonder if its toxic and heat resistant. ill look for it. thanks for all your great comments. keep them coming and ill let you know how things go.
i thought about that. im giving it a test go right now. ill definatly make sure that i give it some good abuse before using it in fire eating. i got the rod idea from one of pele's posts, i cant remember which one. she explained the idea but didnt go in depth on the construction methods. the thin tubing sounds like a great idea. if this test is a bust then ill go to my local hardware and see what they have. i hope it works though because the ready made handle are a nice touch. the epoxy sounds like a good idea too. i wonder if its toxic and heat resistant. ill look for it. thanks for all your great comments. keep them coming and ill let you know how things go.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Roberts, I know exactly what you're talking about (for once I can be helpfull
)
I personally made my wicks out of coat hangers (cause I'm just that cheap), so they are a bit thinner than what you're using, and with out the nice handles, but the person I learnt all my fire eating from used the same stuff you're refering to.
It depends on what kind of wicking you're using. If you plan on using a cotton cloth or towel for a wick, you could do what I did, or if you plan on using kevlar you might want to invest in the kevlar threading...
If you are using cotton this is what I did;
Made a small hook/loop out of the metal at the very end (the part which will hold the hick). And put a small bit of cloth around that to build up the base layer. Then drenched it in elmers. Then I continued to put more layers, soaking it down with elmers after each layer to make sure it held shape. I poured the elmer in my hand, put the wick into it, closed my fist around it and turned untill it had a nice ball shape...
Then I got some very small wire and wrapped it around in a spiral pattern to make sure it wouldn't come apart in my mouth on me, and that is that. The only problem is the exposed metal, which can get hot, although I can honestly say 1) I've only been burnt once by it and 2) I didn't even know it untill later when I saw a large white spot on my tongue and lip. It didn't even hurt.
Elmers hardens alot when it's heated up, so take a blow torch and just heat it up before your first burn and you shouldn't have any problems. After that it will take alot to melt it off, plus you won't be chewing it or anything so it shouldn't matter much...
If you plan on using kevlar, you can do the same thing as above, just with out the elmers (as it won't do much, kevlar is to stiff for it...) but with kevlar stitching or the copper wire.
If you plan on using colemans fule. don't make the wicks that large, colemans produces a fairly large flame off a fairly small wick, so there's no need for huge wicks.
I use a kero/colemans mix. It's not as toxic as straight colemans, but maintains the low flash point, large flame, and alround nice fuelness
Colemans works great for transfers and some other tricks. If you just plan on fire eating straight lamp oil would probably be the best to use. I know some american performers who swear by Everclear or something like that. Apparently they've got it in the UK too, but I've no idea as I live in Canada
Roberts, I know exactly what you're talking about (for once I can be helpfull
)I personally made my wicks out of coat hangers (cause I'm just that cheap), so they are a bit thinner than what you're using, and with out the nice handles, but the person I learnt all my fire eating from used the same stuff you're refering to.
It depends on what kind of wicking you're using. If you plan on using a cotton cloth or towel for a wick, you could do what I did, or if you plan on using kevlar you might want to invest in the kevlar threading...
If you are using cotton this is what I did;
Made a small hook/loop out of the metal at the very end (the part which will hold the hick). And put a small bit of cloth around that to build up the base layer. Then drenched it in elmers. Then I continued to put more layers, soaking it down with elmers after each layer to make sure it held shape. I poured the elmer in my hand, put the wick into it, closed my fist around it and turned untill it had a nice ball shape...
Then I got some very small wire and wrapped it around in a spiral pattern to make sure it wouldn't come apart in my mouth on me, and that is that. The only problem is the exposed metal, which can get hot, although I can honestly say 1) I've only been burnt once by it and 2) I didn't even know it untill later when I saw a large white spot on my tongue and lip. It didn't even hurt.
Elmers hardens alot when it's heated up, so take a blow torch and just heat it up before your first burn and you shouldn't have any problems. After that it will take alot to melt it off, plus you won't be chewing it or anything so it shouldn't matter much...
If you plan on using kevlar, you can do the same thing as above, just with out the elmers (as it won't do much, kevlar is to stiff for it...) but with kevlar stitching or the copper wire.
If you plan on using colemans fule. don't make the wicks that large, colemans produces a fairly large flame off a fairly small wick, so there's no need for huge wicks.
I use a kero/colemans mix. It's not as toxic as straight colemans, but maintains the low flash point, large flame, and alround nice fuelness
Colemans works great for transfers and some other tricks. If you just plan on fire eating straight lamp oil would probably be the best to use. I know some american performers who swear by Everclear or something like that. Apparently they've got it in the UK too, but I've no idea as I live in Canada Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
thanks for the great plans. on a side note i just got back from my first visit to montreal and i loved it. anyway, id like to use kevlar wick just because thats what im using on all of my other fire toys. right now ive got two different experiments going. one using about 1/2 in. kevlar wicking and the other using kevlar rope wick. id rather be able to use the flat wicking because then i can order it and use it for multiple toys. i like the cheap route though. how long does the cotton burn? can you get more than one use out of them? does that much elmers impede the fuel from soaking into the wick? the fuel advice will really be helpful. ive never used everclear but i would imagine that it has a very low flash point. someone else here may be more informed on the matter. i mostly use parrafin or coleman for my other stuff. anyone else out there willing to share their plans for there fire eating tools?
thanks for the great plans. on a side note i just got back from my first visit to montreal and i loved it. anyway, id like to use kevlar wick just because thats what im using on all of my other fire toys. right now ive got two different experiments going. one using about 1/2 in. kevlar wicking and the other using kevlar rope wick. id rather be able to use the flat wicking because then i can order it and use it for multiple toys. i like the cheap route though. how long does the cotton burn? can you get more than one use out of them? does that much elmers impede the fuel from soaking into the wick? the fuel advice will really be helpful. ive never used everclear but i would imagine that it has a very low flash point. someone else here may be more informed on the matter. i mostly use parrafin or coleman for my other stuff. anyone else out there willing to share their plans for there fire eating tools?
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Everclear is NOT Parrafin. I stand corrected.
As for the cotton torches, depending on how you trea them they can last for a while. I had a cotton torch that lasted me at least...30-40 burns because it was treated well. And they're dirt cheap to make. And once you need a new wick you can just take the old one off and do it again, so it's very cost effective.
As for the question refering to elmers stopping the absorbtion of fuel, I've had no problem at all with it...It hasn't seemed to do anything other than hold it all together in one solid piece...
EDITED_BY: ImmortalAngel (1106170306)
Everclear is NOT Parrafin. I stand corrected.
As for the cotton torches, depending on how you trea them they can last for a while. I had a cotton torch that lasted me at least...30-40 burns because it was treated well. And they're dirt cheap to make. And once you need a new wick you can just take the old one off and do it again, so it's very cost effective.
As for the question refering to elmers stopping the absorbtion of fuel, I've had no problem at all with it...It hasn't seemed to do anything other than hold it all together in one solid piece...
EDITED_BY: ImmortalAngel (1106170306)
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
i thought you were talking about the spirit. we used to put it punch at university. lite alcohol taste, big alcohol drunk.
i thought you were talking about the spirit. we used to put it punch at university. lite alcohol taste, big alcohol drunk.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Yeah it's alcohol. But as always, here at HoP We can't stress safety enough. ALWAYS check your MSDS for your fuel before even thinking of using it. Safety is also a must and top priority.
EDITED_BY: ImmortalAngel (1106170371)
Yeah it's alcohol. But as always, here at HoP We can't stress safety enough. ALWAYS check your MSDS for your fuel before even thinking of using it. Safety is also a must and top priority.
EDITED_BY: ImmortalAngel (1106170371)
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
EVERCLEAR IS IN NO WAY PARRAFIN!!!!!
everclear is pure grain ALCOHOL!! parrafin is a PETROLEUM distillate
THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE!!
Written by: ImmortalAngel
Everclear is just very pure Parrafin, which means it is much less dagnerous to your long term health (as a bio hazard, the burning possibility is ever present).
EVERCLEAR IS IN NO WAY PARRAFIN!!!!!
everclear is pure grain ALCOHOL!!
parrafin is a PETROLEUM distillateTHEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE!!
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
well, for anyone that is interested here are the plans for the two different style torches i made.
ALWAYS TEST YOUR EQUIPMENT BEFORE USEING IT. WHAT WORKS FOR ME MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. IF IT DOESNT FEAL RIGHT, IT PROBABLY ISNT RIGHT.
set up:
go to your local thrift store and buy some grill tools with nice handles and long round rods. cut the buisnes end of the grill tool off leaveing as much of the rod attached to the handle as possable.
rope wick:
wrap the end of the rod with cotton, cheese cloth, or flat wick. it doesnt have to be very thick. use white glue to glue it on. i used a scrap peace of 1in. flat whick and wraped it around the rod once. take your rope wick and cut a piece about 18 in. (use more or less depending on the size of wick you want) take one end of the rope and lay it along side of the rod about 1 1/2 in. down with the end of the rope towards the handle. pull the rope across the top of the rod and down the other side (another 1 1/2 in.) makeing sure to cover the top of the rod. use a piece of natural string to hold it in place. then tightly wind the rope around the rod, covering your two 1 1/2 in. pieces. leave a little of the end of the rope hanging out the bottom. you can trim that when your done. wind the rope up the rod, away from the handle. make sure its tight. at the last two coils wind them a little loose. take the rope and put in through the two loops and pull them tight. trim both ends of the rope and add some white glue to the top two loops and let it dry.
flat wick:
cover the end of you rod in white glue. wrap a piece of wick (1 in. wide, about 6 in. long) around the end of the rod very tightly. make sure the rod in sunk down into the wick a little bit. maybe 2 mm. glue the end of the wick to the body of the wick covering both sides with the glue. use a piece of natural string to hold it in place. cover the top of the wick and rod with white glue and let it dry over night. the glue will harden even more when it gets hot.
i prefer the flat wick option. i think it looks nicer and i can use the flat wick for multiple toys and not just the torches. its a preferance thing i guess. im not saying these are the best plans out there for this type of thing, i just wanted to pass on what i had.
well, for anyone that is interested here are the plans for the two different style torches i made.
ALWAYS TEST YOUR EQUIPMENT BEFORE USEING IT. WHAT WORKS FOR ME MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. IF IT DOESNT FEAL RIGHT, IT PROBABLY ISNT RIGHT.
set up:
go to your local thrift store and buy some grill tools with nice handles and long round rods. cut the buisnes end of the grill tool off leaveing as much of the rod attached to the handle as possable.
rope wick:
wrap the end of the rod with cotton, cheese cloth, or flat wick. it doesnt have to be very thick. use white glue to glue it on. i used a scrap peace of 1in. flat whick and wraped it around the rod once. take your rope wick and cut a piece about 18 in. (use more or less depending on the size of wick you want) take one end of the rope and lay it along side of the rod about 1 1/2 in. down with the end of the rope towards the handle. pull the rope across the top of the rod and down the other side (another 1 1/2 in.) makeing sure to cover the top of the rod. use a piece of natural string to hold it in place. then tightly wind the rope around the rod, covering your two 1 1/2 in. pieces. leave a little of the end of the rope hanging out the bottom. you can trim that when your done. wind the rope up the rod, away from the handle. make sure its tight. at the last two coils wind them a little loose. take the rope and put in through the two loops and pull them tight. trim both ends of the rope and add some white glue to the top two loops and let it dry.
flat wick:
cover the end of you rod in white glue. wrap a piece of wick (1 in. wide, about 6 in. long) around the end of the rod very tightly. make sure the rod in sunk down into the wick a little bit. maybe 2 mm. glue the end of the wick to the body of the wick covering both sides with the glue. use a piece of natural string to hold it in place. cover the top of the wick and rod with white glue and let it dry over night. the glue will harden even more when it gets hot.
i prefer the flat wick option. i think it looks nicer and i can use the flat wick for multiple toys and not just the torches. its a preferance thing i guess. im not saying these are the best plans out there for this type of thing, i just wanted to pass on what i had.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Went back and corrected every other post I made which may have hinted that it was not alcohol. Thanks for the clarification Like I said when I first mentioned it, I don't know much about it, and was going on the assumption that it was parafin, which is why I also had a bit about MSDS and safety right after it.
Written by: darkpoetWritten by: ImmortalAngel
Everclear is just very pure Parrafin, which means it is much less dagnerous to your long term health (as a bio hazard, the burning possibility is ever present).
EVERCLEAR IS IN NO WAY PARRAFIN!!!!!
everclear is pure grain ALCOHOL!!
THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE!!
Went back and corrected every other post I made which may have hinted that it was not alcohol. Thanks for the clarification
Like I said when I first mentioned it, I don't know much about it, and was going on the assumption that it was parafin, which is why I also had a bit about MSDS and safety right after it. Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
BRONZE Member
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Member
91 posts
Location: knoxville, tennessee, usa
Posted:
ok, i have an amendment to the flat wick torch plan. i dont know if it the glue disoving or burning off or what but the end thats attached to the main body of the wick keeps coming loose. im going to try sewing it on with some thin wire. any other suggentions would be helpful. i dont really care for the idea of more metal to get hot but im not sure what else to do.
ok, i have an amendment to the flat wick torch plan. i dont know if it the glue disoving or burning off or what but the end thats attached to the main body of the wick keeps coming loose. im going to try sewing it on with some thin wire. any other suggentions would be helpful. i dont really care for the idea of more metal to get hot but im not sure what else to do.
if anyone orders Merlot, i'm leaving.
BRONZE Member
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Irish
525 posts
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA
Posted:
yay, now i dont have to seem as though i have tourettes whenever i read that post while yelling at the comp. 
Written by: ImmortalAngelWritten by: darkpoetWritten by: ImmortalAngel
Everclear is just very pure Parrafin, which means it is much less dagnerous to your long term health (as a bio hazard, the burning possibility is ever present).
EVERCLEAR IS IN NO WAY PARRAFIN!!!!!
everclear is pure grain ALCOHOL!!
THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE!!
Went back and corrected every other post I made which may have hinted that it was not alcohol. Thanks for the clarification
yay, now i dont have to seem as though i have tourettes whenever i read that post while yelling at the comp.
Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes
Co-Founder of Keepers of Light
Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Scientist!
578 posts
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Posted:
Well like I said, I was going by what I thought was correct at the time ^.^' Now I know better and it won't happen again lol.
Well like I said, I was going by what I thought was correct at the time ^.^' Now I know better and it won't happen again lol.
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> STAY SAFE! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug.gif" alt="" />
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