Forums > Social Chat > This cant go on!!

Posted: 18th Nov 2004

Written by: stickman

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the ppl responsible for that are dutch nationalist pigs!!

hate breeds hate, and this is a perfect example of it.. im not saying that only the islamic fundamentalists are violent and cause unjustified acts of violence, but burning down mosques didnt start until the death of theo van gogh..

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agreed



but i still don't think that your point in your first post was correct and i was trying to provide an example that showed why i thought this.



you said: "[do you think] all this spreading of islamic fundamentalism within europe as well as other places in the world is the result of the US declaring war on Iraq?

i think it has something to do with it, but not everything.. i think that the 'hatred' and disagreement already existed but that i was only manifested after all the killings started in iraq..

opinions???"



well, i don't think there has been any 'spreading of islamic fundamentalism' within europe.



muslim's are traditionally very commited to their religion and many have taken critique/attacks (the same thing from two viewpoints) on it to be equal to a personal attack on their chosen way of life.



as the dutch church/mosque/school/office arson and vandalism attacks show there will always be a few fundamentalists/extremeists (usually from 'both' sides of an argument) that believe their views are worth killing someone to 'prove'.



the salman rushdie example clearly shows this is not a phenomenon that has only occured in europe since iraq - i think the reaction to rushdie's work was actually stronger back then (see small extract below).



"The novel was banned in India and South Africa and burned on the streets of Bradford, Yorkshire. When Ayatollah Khomeini called on all zealous Muslims to execute the writer and the publishers of the book, Rushdie was forced into hiding. Also an aide to Khomeini offered a million-dollar reward for Rushdie's death. In 1993 Rushdie's Norwegian publisher William Nygaard was wounded in an attack outside his house. In 1997 the reward was doubled, and the next year the highest Iranian state prosecutor Morteza Moqtadale renewed the death sentence. During this period of fatwa violent protest in India, Pakistan, and Egypt caused several deaths. In 1990 Rushdie published an essay In Good Faith to appease his critics and issued an apology in which he reaffirmed his respect for Islam. However, Iranian clerics did not repudiate their death threat."



rushdie had to go into hiding even though he was residing in the uk and has been lucky enough to manage to stay hidden since (now living in new york i believe?).

i have no doubt if he had ignored the death threats like van gogh did, he would be dead now too.



please don't get the impression that i'm saying its right - i'm merely pointing out that this kind of reaction is not a result of 9-11 or the invasion of iraq or the al-quaeda uber-terrorist group - simply that it has been this way, in europe as well as across the world, for a long time.





what i think *has* changed since 9-11/iraq's invasion is that any violence sparked by contraversial commentary on the muslim religion is immediately claimed to be the work of a cell of the 'worldwide islamic fundamentalist terrorist network'.



i do not believe such a network exists.



i believe like-minded individuals stick together, especially extremeists, but i refuse to believe all of these groups are in contact with each other across the world, nor that it is accurate to describe them as part of the same terrorist organistation solely based on their religious standing.



i could be wrong but it seems little has changed apart from the stories our governments are feeding us...

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

Posted: 18th Nov 2004

Written by: Unsaturated Carpets Of Freedom

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I always thought terrorism was defined as:
Using violence to achieve political ends.

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Well according to the Patriot Act I think it's defined as "Anything the governement doesn't like".

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 18th Nov 2004
or any one for that matter NYC..........dont you just love liveing in the land of tollerance and understanding (as long as your a wite, christian, straight, anti-abortion family)....... you know i grew up in a military family, and i do understand the freedoms we have, but i alos see the LARG amount of hypocrisy in this nation, that jsut seems to get "over looked" and im sick of it..........i wonder what antartica is like this time of year??

You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too

Posted: 18th Nov 2004
It does get overlooked, but only inside your borders. Escape, escape. While you still can. Or Rebel.

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau