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Posted: 3rd Jul 2010

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The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 3rd Jul 2010

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 6th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: WoodlandAppleOriginally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice

Do I think that even with the most stringent controls accidents can happen? Yes

Do people need to go camping to survive? No


hey, I do.

one last question you missed.

Will I do everything in my power to limit mine and others footprint on this earth?

EoN, I do understand your point, and where you are coming from yet change does not occur through bemoaning the realities of life. and you should Never let it get in the way of a good story or internet rant.

Yet dont you want more? dont you desire a better world?

change requires vision, and a drive to exceed in the face of adversity. It also requires motion. Take a car, it cannot change direction without a bit of forward movement to begin with. I understand the hypocritical nature of most of these posts, and EoN; you are a good person and do good things, but dont you want more?

I do. I guess Im selfish this way.



Considering I understand that desire is the root source of suffering I honestly try to keep it check...

As much as I want to change this aspect of myself I understand wanting to is counterproductive LOL I still try to work hard on it in a progressively passive manner none the less.

Right now you do need it for survival, but do you really? I've probably changed occupations and retrained about 10 times since I started working and I'm edging up on being 29 this year, so I don't really get how not adapting is anything more than being stubborn and you know I don't mean that in a mean way. I really don't get it...

I will do anything in my power that is not a severely impeding to respect all sentient beings, but I'm not going to over throw any form of reasonable balance or bring any harm upon myself by having a zero tolerance standpoint on natural resources as they are organic just like me. No matter what we are and in what form, we are all predators and are all prey at the same time so why bring forth self imposed suffering.

Thanks for realizing my intent and all, I totally get yours as well and respect it, but at the same time I know my standards are just as difficult as the next person's to hold and have flourish. Any of my "web rants" are nothing more than my own manifestation of the angst and venting of the next guys so it's all good...

Ever think perhaps my biggest personal gripe is the imposition of unrealistic ideals getting under my skin from the media, peers, officials etc. versus the more common rants on this forum? Kinda a rant in and of itself so can't I play too?

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 6th Jul 2010
outdoors stuff is more than just a job or habit for me. It IS who I am, not just what I do.

George Mallory answered the question, why climb everest with "because its there"

A friend of mine answered it with "because Im not all there"

When a famous climber Matt Seagal was asked why he chose death consequences routes and climbs he said "cause its more bitchin"

Those who dont do it will never understand the need and the disire from those that do.

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Posted: 6th Jul 2010
preservation of nature and other lifeforms on this planet is not for 29 yr or 99 yr olds... it's for those people who don't even remotely have a voice yet. It's for your nephew and great grand child.

Knowing about the means of recycling and environmental protection and not applying it will lead to a dire need for serious self betrayal once you have to face discomforting questions from your daughters little toddler...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 6th Jul 2010

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The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 6th Jul 2010
awww - sorry for that

have some healing

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 6th Jul 2010
touché!

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 6th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTompreservation of nature and other lifeforms on this planet is not for 29 yr or 99 yr olds... it's for those people who don't even remotely have a voice yet. It's for your nephew and great grand child.

Knowing about the means of recycling and environmental protection and not applying it will lead to a dire need for serious self betrayal once you have to face discomforting questions from your daughters little toddler...

Without preservation of ourselves it's pointless as we won't be around to reproduce or we bring our children into a life of poverty and direct abuse/neglect by way of an inability to support and provide for them. Pretty simple if ya ask me!

If I'm even still alive when my daughter (who isn't in the plan for another few years) is old enough to have a toddler without me having a conniption it would be a miracle.

From how you talk FT you sound like you're around my mom's age (in your 40s) and just as stuck in your ways, but from a very different school of thought. I see her errors all the time so the old and wise routine from someone on a bulletin board doesn't really faze me.....

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 7th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: WoodlandAppleoutdoors stuff is more than just a job or habit for me. It IS who I am, not just what I do.

George Mallory answered the question, why climb everest with "because its there"

A friend of mine answered it with "because Im not all there"

When a famous climber Matt Seagal was asked why he chose death consequences routes and climbs he said "cause its more bitchin"

Those who dont do it will never understand the need and the disire from those that do.

Woodland Apple You know I think you're a good person and this is hard for me to say and I really hope you don't get mad...

Until something happens that makes what you said above impossible, forces out of our controls are a reality I have personally dealt with anytime and I sounded just like you until I experienced them.

If it was do something you hate just to survive or perish and it was the real deal, I'm pretty sure you'd throw all of that out the window. You might not, but after being thrown out of my tolerance thresh hold for hardship my tune quickly changed.

I'm very glad it hasn't happened to you because it sucks and changes a person's life forever at that particular type of rock bottom, but know I get the reality that my elders use to have a fit with me about not understanding the severity of hickups in self sufficiency.

Hence my balance perspective on environmental topics and reasonable moderate living as the most lucrative path for all parties involved in the natural world.

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 7th Jul 2010
old and stuck in my ways sorry to inform you (young lady) that the average age is increasing so you may well live to face your grandchildren - even if you not intend it.

And I reportedly took my neighbors hand, asked him: "Sir, what you think about god?" at age 4... times change, so may topics

As I see it you're talking about "lifestyles" - not about "life itself"... it might seep through to you that there's been times w/o iPods and iPhones, computers and SUV's. These are gadgets - not necessary to sustain yourself.

I've been wondering, but you're just 29!!! mg that explains so much... but then again, I've not thought much different of nature 'back then'

I grew up w/o cellphones - yes, landline only. No flashy plastic blingbling Barbie BS - wooden toys. Grew up at the heart of nature, with real animals and real trees. Wilderness. Untouched, pristine forests, 3 generations of (healthy, unbred) Old-German Sheppards (not brown- but white/black), a cat that lived to be 16, 8 chicken and 3 sheep.

For me an animal has a soul as much as a tree as much as a human being. I've seen my dogs pain, loosing her leg for neglect of workers, another dog been poisoned by neighbors, seen my home (100yr old house) been torched for greed (on my 21st birthday, June 16th 1989 at 2pm) and later 2.5acres of that ancient pristine forest (untouched for hundreds of years) been cut down, erazored for 8 high class villas.

I'm not talking about nature preservation because it's "fashy" - but because I can feel its pain as if it was my own. Be happy you can't.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 7th Jul 2010
FT I'm no different, many of these developments I didn't have until adulthood minus crappy dialup internet and I did have a pager. You just have a different focus on everything is everything than I do. I'm a touch baffled about the point and been on my own since I was 17. Society had it's requirements for acceptance in your hayday and added more prerequisites in mine so I'm confused.

I understand the pain of external things hurting, but abuse, going hungry, and being homeless myself has changed me forever and while I feel for others and feel pain from seeing them suffer and perish I refuse to go back to the dark days when I lost everything and in no way do I deserve such anymore or any less than anyone else.

Surely that would explain my approach from the flipside and I suffice just fine with all the negativity I lost. What I have gained has come through acceptance and peace of the course of all life so while I think it's horrible you have faced what you have I lost everything (family, the place I called home, dignity, permanent health repercussions) no being is any better than the other including myself.

Therefore your thoughts on nature preservation that go against self preservation during the times we live in and societal requirements to be self sufficient make no sense. I'm not being a smartass I'm being honest and telling you it makes no sense what so ever.
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1278441708)
EDIT_REASON: clarification and correction

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 10th Jul 2010
Can't side your statement to its full extent:

- doesn't feel like I have lost my dignity, neither my family nor have I got permanent health repercussions resulting from these events. What I have lost is my home and what I have seen is what peaople are ready to sacrifice for short term profit.

I feel sorry for your personal history and it makes certain views and opinions much clearer to me. We all got a sob story to tell, I guess. Thanks for your compassion.

What I did say is that some of us do live an unsustainable lifestyle, a lifestyle that depends upon reckless exploitation of non-renewable ressources. And that some of us prefer to close our eyes to the fact.

It doesn't matter so much why people choose to protect and clean up - it's by far more smart than people not caring at all.

Not sure exactly where you read that out of my posts:

Originally Posted By: EoNTherefore your thoughts on nature preservation that go against self preservation during the times we live in and societal requirements to be self sufficient make no sense. I'm not being a smartass I'm being honest and telling you it makes no sense what so ever.

pls specify (with quotes) where I told people to sacrifice self preservation over nature preservation. Thanks

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 10th Jul 2010
IMHonestO I feel that we as fire performers, who burn fossil fuels recreationally should display even more environmental consciousness and preservational effort than other "ordinary folks" - because quite often we too drive a car, use an a/c, go to festivals, etc...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 11th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTomCareful Dentrassi - you may get accused of spewing poison The spill will go on for months - but what about the decades of spillage that happened outside "our backyards" for decades?





Saying that working for a company - whose policies goes against your own ethics - may be the only job you get (IMNSHO) is a lie!

It's the same lame excuse as if a German SS soldiers who worked at a concentration camps claims that "he followed orders". It is a lie! And I don't buy it anymore.

You work for a pollutive company/ industry, you're part of the problem, you're corrupted by money vs. ecological sanity. You're either completely ignorant, helplessly optimistic or plain stupid.

You work for the industry, you better admit that you either don't give a frickin damn (which is okay) or you have the whistle ready 24/7 and stay at risk to get fired over it - because all the rest of us depend on YOU.

Needed to vent this [/rant]

Well FT, this about one is what stands out to me the most that you don't get self preservation and that having to do the above or go through times I've been through is a reality for many people in terms of ethic vs paychecks. Can you imagine with everyone losing their homes, fighting hard for jobs that don't cover the cost of living, and have a family on top of it does to people?

I'm very glad it's not me and know without my husband being in the military (which comes with it's own hardships) and what I can do in the supportive role for taking care of home and supplementary funds makes us quite fortunate with our entitlements given to those with dependents (housing&insurance perks). There's always work and inflation is always happening, but the amount of people doing whatever they can to provide for their families working whatever job will pay them and sending their kids to school while they all live in their car or a homeless shelter is a reality I'm not blind to and I'd never make a judgment like you did in the above quote. If he didn't reenlist it would be us and I know and accept that, appreciating the people who put their lives on the line to survive and care for family so much.

There are things that aren't a choice and how jobs require cell numbers, email, physical address, driver licenses, background checks, and such to get hired I'm not going to pretend you can go around without these things and be a productive member of society or self sufficient. Employers will hire who they want and the job scene is highly competitive right now, all the people flocking to go work at the spill site know the permanent health repercussions they're facing but it's no more threat than the suffering that happens without a job.

Condemning being normal is ignorant to me because most of us conform so we don't perish from being ostracized for our own choices which we do have control over, not because we're "happy" about it. In no way do I set an example of being wasteful or support deplorable practices which is my definition of damage (accident do happen and do not count IMO, GMOs and other nasty stuff is on purpose and I won't touch it), but I do accept that regardless of how much you want to "rough it" (I'm assuming you try to minimally use these things and don't lead an average lifestyle in terms of the daily grind of the populous) many of us can't and it's not in our best interest to do so for several reasons.

You can judge hard working people doing what they have to to get by all you want, but the only change in the end is that you will reap what you sow.

You say "Money Vs. Ecological Sanity" I say "Survive taking what you can get Vs. Perish looking a gift horse in the mouth"
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1278778748)
EDIT_REASON: typos

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 11th Jul 2010
does your husband willingly shoot innocent people?
would he support "trigger happies" in his job and keep mum if witnessing comrades knowingly committing a massacre to civilians?

If you don't know - consider asking him.

If he would then - sorry - in my eyes he would be a criminal.
If he wouldn't then - sorry - he's doing exactly what I said in above post.

You can work for a pollutive industry, you can work for the military or law enforcement (using deadly force in other people's names) - but you NEED to keep ethics quite high and not get corrupted. Because we all depend on you.

Look at politicians. Wouldn't you rather like to see them acting from a moral point, do the right thing and act from a point where society benefits, rather than themselves and their friends?

Many of them - if leaving politics and NOT having been lobbying HARD whilst in office OR being professional lawyers - would qualify as cleaners. We do have a number of ex-MP's who are currently living on the dole in Germany.

I honor your opinion(s) - but in this context I really don't understand your attempt to involve yourself in the "Pirates for the Gulf" action.. you do that for personal profits? To look good for others? From selfishness? Or you do it because you want to do something and this is an opportunity for you to participate in something that feels like the right thing to do?

Personally I don't care for which motifs you do the right thing as long as you DO IT. I don't care why (German) people chose to help Jews during WWII - it's been the right thing to do. I do know that my grandpa was a decorated officer in WWII - he was a lot but he was never a Nazi and he didn't shoot civilians or committed atrocities. He was a man with dignity and he never compromised on it. Whatever people now say about the German army and the atrocities committed, I know that my family and a majority of soldiers were soldiers - not SS.

Were people getting corrupted by war and ideology? You bet. But there were more officers like Field Marshal Erwin Rommel (Desert Fox) than like Reichsfuehrer Erwin Himmler. Only that corrupted people do a lot more damage than people with dignity can stand up against.

Your lifestyle is your choice - I have reasons to critizize it. "Survive taking what you can get Vs. Perish looking a gift horse in the mouth" is inappropriate today for the West because we're not bushmen or living at the North Pole. I wouldn't expect you to become a martyr for any reason - but I would certainly keep your name in highest honor if you did. It's your choice - I stand to it - and I respect you for verbalizing and standing to it, much more as if you'd say one thing and did another.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 12th Jul 2010
you lost me in the first, but latest in the second paragraph of your reply - sorry I'm not ready to receive your emotional garbage and ask you or the mods to clean it up. It doesn't belong here and - besides - is one of the heftiest violations against HoP posting rules that I witnessed in a very long time. Congratulations


*******************************************************************


"When Masters are assaulted or crucified, they do not lash out.
When they are humiliated or ridiculed, they do not defend their actions.
True Masters are those who maintain balance, for they have grown to understand that everyone is simply doing the best they can in the moment.
Masters do not internalize insults thrown at them.
They know they are perfect, as well as their accusers."

~ T. Crabtree

Still learning
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1278946414)
EDIT_REASON: zen

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTomyou lost me in the first, but latest in the second paragraph of your reply - sorry I'm not ready to receive your emotional garbage and ask you or the mods to clean it up. It doesn't belong here and - besides - is one of the heftiest violations against HoP posting rules that I witnessed in a very long time. Congratulations


*******************************************************************


"When Masters are assaulted or crucified, they do not lash out.
When they are humiliated or ridiculed, they do not defend their actions.
True Masters are those who maintain balance, for they have grown to understand that everyone is simply doing the best they can in the moment.
Masters do not internalize insults thrown at them.
They know they are perfect, as well as their accusers."

~ T. Crabtree

Still learning

Nice quote, do they also end it all in a bunker when surrounded by those willing to fight for freedom knowing the majority is not tolerating their treachery anymore because of how far they pushed the limits past the point of no return? Both good people, the evil, and those in between could all claim the same thing.

I see it as a draw, you have stooped lower than myself but none the less we're both guilty, plus it's not about YOU and what YOU are ready for. I'm not ready for your ignorant criticism of myself or slanderous accusations towards my loved ones and friends. What makes you better than me? Emotional garbage? Might I ask how you're innocent what so ever in any capacity of the term?

No mod in their right mind would see either action in the end as any better or worse. Stop using a minor as a narc on facebook or you will regret being so confident.

The first one goes, but the second one stays. You need to be taken down as you are no more innocent and in fact more guilt for being a protagonist. You can either work with me, or degrade your demographic's ideals and integrity amongst the normal more so than you already have.

I have faith the mods can read and will make a fair and balanced decision should you choose to waste their time over your usual behavioral patterns.
EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1278971616)
EDIT_REASON: cause propaganda can be nterpreted in many ways

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTomdoes your husband willingly shoot innocent people?
would he support "trigger happies" in his job and keep mum if witnessing comrades knowingly committing a massacre to civilians?

If you don't know - consider asking him.

If he would then - sorry - in my eyes he would be a criminal.
If he wouldn't then - sorry - he's doing exactly what I said in above post.


Look at politicians. Wouldn't you rather like to see them acting from a moral point, do the right thing and act from a point where society benefits, rather than themselves and their friends?


I honor your opinion(s) - but in this context I really don't understand your attempt to involve yourself in the "Pirates for the Gulf" action.. you do that for personal profits? To look good for others? From selfishness? Or you do it because you want to do something and this is an opportunity for you to participate in something that feels like the right thing to do?

Personally I don't care for which motifs you do the right thing as long as you DO IT. I don't care why (German) people chose to help Jews during WWII - it's been the right thing to do. I do know that my grandpa was a decorated officer in WWII - he was a lot but he was never a Nazi and he didn't shoot civilians or committed atrocities. He was a man with dignity and he never compromised on it. Whatever people now say about the German army and the atrocities committed, I know that my family and a majority of soldiers were soldiers - not SS.

Were people getting corrupted by war and ideology? You bet. But there were more officers like Field Marshal Erwin Rommel (Desert Fox) than like Reichsfuehrer Erwin Himmler. Only that corrupted people do a lot more damage than people with dignity can stand up against.

Your lifestyle is your choice - I have reasons to critizize it. "Survive taking what you can get Vs. Perish looking a gift horse in the mouth" is inappropriate today for the West because we're not bushmen or living at the North Pole.

Really?

Here's the list of no-nos and never once do you not break just 1

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. This includes agreeing not to promote the unsafe practice of using fire whilst under the influence of drugs or alcohol."

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 13th Jul 2010

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^ That's the line we're drawing under this thread right now ^

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice
Woodland Apple You know I think you're a good person and this is hard for me to say and I really hope you don't get mad...


I never get mad, particulalry on the internet. Outdoor things has cost me a great deal already, and its not something I will EVER put aside. Im not expecting you to understand.

Anyway perhaps better discussed elsewhere or PM if you want to know more


BACK ON TOPIC__________________________

if you have a spare 20 minutes or so:





and linky for our german viewers:
linky

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Note*

If you dont have 20 min then here are a few snippets:


A rig worker identified a leak in the oil rig's safety equipment weks before the explosion.

"BP appears to have made multiple decisions for economic reasons that increased the danger of a catastrophic well failure."
-US congressman Henry WAxman

Mineral management services:

Failed to require a backup shutdown system required to much of the rest of the world.

Failed to require offshore drillers to file plans to deal with majir oil spills.

Specifically allowed BP to drill without an environmental analysis.

Bush admin gave top interior jobs to lobbyists, making it subservient to the oil industry.

Inspector general now finds Dept of interior had:
"a culture of subtance abuse and promiscuity."


If you spill a few gallons of oil into the water by accident yourself, you are liable to heavy fines or jail time, but not of you spill millions of tonnes. Who is above the law?

sticks and stones my break my bones, but ski patrol will save me.

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Amen to the last post WA!

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
I borrowed this from drdrizzel


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The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: WAIf you spill a few gallons of oil into the water by accident yourself, you are liable to heavy fines or jail time, but not of you spill millions of tonnes. Who is above the law?

Originally Posted By: StalinOne death is a tragedy;
one million is a statistic.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Originally Posted By: Me
One dubious post is annoying
A whole thread of it gets boring

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Posted: 13th Jul 2010
Start a thread Durbs

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 14th Jul 2010
in case it hasn't been mentioned:

Dutch company offered assistance and was turned down

Originally Posted By: Financial PostSome are attuned to the possibility of looming catastrophe and know how to head it off. Others are unprepared for risk and even unable to get their priorities straight when risk turns to reality.

The Dutch fall into the first group. Three days after the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico began on April 20, the Netherlands offered the U.S. government ships equipped to handle a major spill, one much larger than the BP spill that then appeared to be underway. "Our system can handle 400 cubic metres per hour," Weird Koops, the chairman of Spill Response Group Holland, told Radio Netherlands Worldwide, giving each Dutch ship more cleanup capacity than all the ships that the U.S. was then employing in the Gulf to combat the spill.

(...)

The U.S. government responded with "Thanks but no thanks," remarked Visser, despite BP's desire to bring in the Dutch equipment and despite the no-lose nature of the Dutch offer --the Dutch government offered the use of its equipment at no charge.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to