Forums > Technical Discussion > Making cyborgized spinning props
Login/Join to ParticipatePLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
So as everybody upon everybody knows, (pobbles are happiest without their toes) some dude connect up a digital compass to a bunch of vibration packs on a belt. So that he would feel a vibration on the front of his tummy when facing north, on his back when facing south etc. He then wore it continuously for a few months.
After a while his brain began to ignore the vibration stimuli and became aware that it referenced the compass direction. He gained an 'instinctive' sense of where he was in his home city and obviously what direction he was pointed in. Just thanks to this belt.
Obviously there are other experiments with rewiring your senses to tell you dew information. Your tongue can be used as a visual sense for instance... or hearing as a visual sense also, thou that's pretty hard to do. Touch as well.
But I'm more interested in putting accelerometers in staff and poi, and gaining a sense of their rotation and movement through space. I don't really know what this would achieve but it would certainly be fun. I'm pretty sure blind balancing would become very easy.
Now, this thread is hopefully going to be about how to make a prop like this.
It might be the case that the easiest answer is to buy a couple of wii remotes and get them to talk to a belt which had vibration packs of some kind, mobile phone / childs toy / electronic component of some kind. Wiimotes are good cos they have all the tech in them already, and can communicate too, but I think it might require a lot of precessing power on the belt itself to talk to them.
The other plan is: 3 accelerometers... (thou I don't know if they measure rotation around the long axis of a staff.) and some kind of short range wireless communication to the belt. (along with a battery.)
On the belt you'd need some processor to sort out the signal from the accelerometers, as well as a way to receive it, and then route to one or a few of the vibration packs. And a battery obviously.
And then a comfy belt to wear it on, as well as a way to make sure it's always on the same place each day / practise session.
I think pic chips (or more advanced things) will come into it, but beyond that I don't know. And obviously, connecting it up to a display and making pretty pictures should be quite easy...
So as everybody upon everybody knows, (pobbles are happiest without their toes) some dude connect up a digital compass to a bunch of vibration packs on a belt. So that he would feel a vibration on the front of his tummy when facing north, on his back when facing south etc. He then wore it continuously for a few months.
After a while his brain began to ignore the vibration stimuli and became aware that it referenced the compass direction. He gained an 'instinctive' sense of where he was in his home city and obviously what direction he was pointed in. Just thanks to this belt.
Obviously there are other experiments with rewiring your senses to tell you dew information. Your tongue can be used as a visual sense for instance... or hearing as a visual sense also, thou that's pretty hard to do. Touch as well.
But I'm more interested in putting accelerometers in staff and poi, and gaining a sense of their rotation and movement through space. I don't really know what this would achieve but it would certainly be fun. I'm pretty sure blind balancing would become very easy.
Now, this thread is hopefully going to be about how to make a prop like this.
It might be the case that the easiest answer is to buy a couple of wii remotes and get them to talk to a belt which had vibration packs of some kind, mobile phone / childs toy / electronic component of some kind. Wiimotes are good cos they have all the tech in them already, and can communicate too, but I think it might require a lot of precessing power on the belt itself to talk to them.
The other plan is: 3 accelerometers... (thou I don't know if they measure rotation around the long axis of a staff.) and some kind of short range wireless communication to the belt. (along with a battery.)
On the belt you'd need some processor to sort out the signal from the accelerometers, as well as a way to receive it, and then route to one or a few of the vibration packs. And a battery obviously.
And then a comfy belt to wear it on, as well as a way to make sure it's always on the same place each day / practise session.
I think pic chips (or more advanced things) will come into it, but beyond that I don't know. And obviously, connecting it up to a display and making pretty pictures should be quite easy...
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
Pinker than thou
336 posts
Location: A little pink world all my own..
336 posts
Location: A little pink world all my own..
Posted:
See now, this is the bit that bugs me - "in his home city". Could he do it anywhere? I would suspect not, since he has many more associations (both historical from it being his home city and current from getting tickle "a" while looking at landmark "b") than just a tickle with each direction at any given point in what isn't that big a space really. Got a link/reference to anything about these directional vibrators? Cos I'm rather sceptical at the moment...
Written by: mcp
He gained an 'instinctive' sense of where he was in his home city and obviously what direction he was pointed in.
See now, this is the bit that bugs me - "in his home city". Could he do it anywhere? I would suspect not, since he has many more associations (both historical from it being his home city and current from getting tickle "a" while looking at landmark "b") than just a tickle with each direction at any given point in what isn't that big a space really. Got a link/reference to anything about these directional vibrators? Cos I'm rather sceptical at the moment...
A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the 
up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
I think he wore it for about 6 months, till even when he visited new areas, he 'knew' where he was. After he stopped using it he dreamed about still having the navigation sense, like it was a phantom limb.
other people have constructed touch braille like devices, which when given even to sighted people, allow them to do rudimentary navigation, because the dots on their touch were describing a black and white image. In about ten minutes complete new comers were able to avoid walls and obstacles using it.
The ability of the brain to rewire itself to new sensory data is a known fact. Anybody who wears glasses should know about that... about that experiment with glasses which turn your vision upside down...
I think he wore it for about 6 months, till even when he visited new areas, he 'knew' where he was. After he stopped using it he dreamed about still having the navigation sense, like it was a phantom limb.
other people have constructed touch braille like devices, which when given even to sighted people, allow them to do rudimentary navigation, because the dots on their touch were describing a black and white image. In about ten minutes complete new comers were able to avoid walls and obstacles using it.
The ability of the brain to rewire itself to new sensory data is a known fact. Anybody who wears glasses should know about that... about that experiment with glasses which turn your vision upside down...
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
What are you hoping to achieve exactly Meg?
I like where you're going, but not quite sure of the final destination...
THis does sound a little like my technique for practising some things: shut off one of the senses you are using.
Like, my method of practicing foot catches; Stand on one leg, hold a ball on your outstretched foot. Now, shut your eyes. Because you are unable to use your vision as a balance reference, you learn to do it by feel, so, when it comes to catching the ball, you don't need to think about adjusting and maintaining your balance, the balance just becomes a natural thing to do. Thus giving your brain one less thing to think about and more power to concentrate on the harder bit. once it starts to become easy to balance on one foot without visual assistance, try changing body positions, but still maintaining the balance. This sure worked for me...
Or teaching yourself good planes by spinning in a corridor
for a while.
Kinda like Blind or Deaf people having four super good senses to 'make up' for the non functional one.
but how will understanding the spin of poi and staff help? I mean, do we not already know how things spin? did somebody else not already do the mathematics?
'cyborging' props... I might be misunderstanding here, but I take that as sort of training your props. like when you give your prop to someone better than you and say: train it for me.
Not making things cyborg as such (You and your damn Sci fi) but making things more habitual.
Certainly an interesting topic.
What are you hoping to achieve exactly Meg?
I like where you're going, but not quite sure of the final destination...
THis does sound a little like my technique for practising some things: shut off one of the senses you are using.
Like, my method of practicing foot catches; Stand on one leg, hold a ball on your outstretched foot. Now, shut your eyes. Because you are unable to use your vision as a balance reference, you learn to do it by feel, so, when it comes to catching the ball, you don't need to think about adjusting and maintaining your balance, the balance just becomes a natural thing to do. Thus giving your brain one less thing to think about and more power to concentrate on the harder bit. once it starts to become easy to balance on one foot without visual assistance, try changing body positions, but still maintaining the balance. This sure worked for me...
Or teaching yourself good planes by spinning in a corridor
for a while.
Kinda like Blind or Deaf people having four super good senses to 'make up' for the non functional one.
but how will understanding the spin of poi and staff help? I mean, do we not already know how things spin? did somebody else not already do the mathematics?
'cyborging' props... I might be misunderstanding here, but I take that as sort of training your props. like when you give your prop to someone better than you and say: train it for me.
Not making things cyborg as such (You and your damn Sci fi) but making things more habitual.
Certainly an interesting topic.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Why you ask? Well just for kicks really.
I think you would get a good sense of what it feels like to be the staff spinning... well you'd get a kind of 'sense' of it. A new sense for sure. You'd probably be able to work out things quicker... like working out that the matrix is path roll part wrap took a staff that doesn't roll, it showed that it wasn't going to do a matrix without a big difference in technique... if you could feel the various types of movement the staff was making, you would probably know these things anyway.
Yeah, it would sure feel cool. You could probably smooth out lots of poi stalls as well, especially ones you can't see. You could feel what it was like to do an airwrap better...
Yeah, we might know how things spin. But do you actually 'know'? I might thing an airwrap is a feeling of controlling the angle and speed of two poi as they enter the tangle, and then just keeping my hands still. The poi however will probably be doing a bit of a super speedy roller coaster turn as they enter and then slowing down again on a new tangent as they exit.
and what happens when you put accelerometers in a contact ball? Suddenly it won't be symmetrical anymore, it'll and an up and down and left and right. You'll find out how many rotations a chest roll is and such like probably... and you'll know what height you throw it too, without looking...
They do say to train easier things first, like brooms for face balances, before working down to clubs and teaspoons. So why not make training easier with a little extra sensory perception?
And why not just do it for kicks? Just to see what you can do, when you have an extra-ordinary sense of how your props are moving?
Why you ask? Well just for kicks really.
I think you would get a good sense of what it feels like to be the staff spinning... well you'd get a kind of 'sense' of it. A new sense for sure. You'd probably be able to work out things quicker... like working out that the matrix is path roll part wrap took a staff that doesn't roll, it showed that it wasn't going to do a matrix without a big difference in technique... if you could feel the various types of movement the staff was making, you would probably know these things anyway.
Yeah, it would sure feel cool. You could probably smooth out lots of poi stalls as well, especially ones you can't see. You could feel what it was like to do an airwrap better...
Yeah, we might know how things spin. But do you actually 'know'? I might thing an airwrap is a feeling of controlling the angle and speed of two poi as they enter the tangle, and then just keeping my hands still. The poi however will probably be doing a bit of a super speedy roller coaster turn as they enter and then slowing down again on a new tangent as they exit.
and what happens when you put accelerometers in a contact ball? Suddenly it won't be symmetrical anymore, it'll and an up and down and left and right. You'll find out how many rotations a chest roll is and such like probably... and you'll know what height you throw it too, without looking...
They do say to train easier things first, like brooms for face balances, before working down to clubs and teaspoons. So why not make training easier with a little extra sensory perception?
And why not just do it for kicks? Just to see what you can do, when you have an extra-ordinary sense of how your props are moving?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
the kicker of elves
371 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
the kicker of elves
371 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
Not just knowing, but feeling.
That what you're going for? I like this idea.I'm going to go bother some engineering and comp sci students this evening. I often wondered how it would feel at the end of my rope dart. . .
Not just knowing, but feeling.
That what you're going for? I like this idea.I'm going to go bother some engineering and comp sci students this evening. I often wondered how it would feel at the end of my rope dart. . .
Man is no more than a conduit for excrement to pass through.- daVinci
Jointly owned by BurdA and Tinypixie
Wielder of the voice of Patrick Stewart
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
oops
i think the sensing settup should be fairly easy to make, just give dave some funding
im more intrested in what new nerves you wanna wire up... the belt idea seems convenient to carry, but im not sure how your gonna translate the vectors, I guess you wanna measure two things, the speed of the end of the staffs, and its rolling along its axis.
would it be too weird if you had one of each on the left and right sides of the body? you could have it on ankles im thinking, one ankle with a rotating pulse for the axis, another with a pressure stimulus for the rotation? and i think pnumatics would be more comfortable than vibrations in this case.
also, unlike the compass example, you dont spin staff all day, do you think your senses could be re-trained just in practice sessions, or would you do extra long sessions untill it developed?
direct brain-staff interface for the win!
T
Written by: mcp
Now, this thread is hopefully going to be about how to make a prop like this.
oops
i think the sensing settup should be fairly easy to make, just give dave some funding
im more intrested in what new nerves you wanna wire up... the belt idea seems convenient to carry, but im not sure how your gonna translate the vectors, I guess you wanna measure two things, the speed of the end of the staffs, and its rolling along its axis.would it be too weird if you had one of each on the left and right sides of the body? you could have it on ankles im thinking, one ankle with a rotating pulse for the axis, another with a pressure stimulus for the rotation? and i think pnumatics would be more comfortable than vibrations in this case.
also, unlike the compass example, you dont spin staff all day, do you think your senses could be re-trained just in practice sessions, or would you do extra long sessions untill it developed?
direct brain-staff interface for the win!
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
That's the trick you see, it doesn't have to be a direct or even logical mapping.
I could divide the belt into two halves, one for each end of the staff. and then each side into thirds for each vector of acceleration.
I'm not sure if ankles have enough nerve endings to do it. The tummy is a large area to get it done. The feet however could be doable... some stupid ass looking shoes... coming up!
Yeah I'm not sure how the accelerometers will pick up rolling. certainly if there's one close to the outside it'll pick up the outward force from the rolling, and maybe the acceleration of the surface as it turns... Also I'm not sure if accelerometers live up to their name and only measure acceleration and not velocity... it might be useful to have a velocity sensor as well.
Plus I think pneumatics are harder to achieve than vibrations... I haven't managed to find any vibration things yet.. it might have to be tiny motors... or scavenged mobile phones.
The fun bit thou, if you're wearing it at practise... you'll know if somebody is using it without asking you. My brain just went into a lot of wrong possibilities.
That's the trick you see, it doesn't have to be a direct or even logical mapping.
I could divide the belt into two halves, one for each end of the staff. and then each side into thirds for each vector of acceleration.
I'm not sure if ankles have enough nerve endings to do it. The tummy is a large area to get it done. The feet however could be doable... some stupid ass looking shoes... coming up!
Yeah I'm not sure how the accelerometers will pick up rolling. certainly if there's one close to the outside it'll pick up the outward force from the rolling, and maybe the acceleration of the surface as it turns... Also I'm not sure if accelerometers live up to their name and only measure acceleration and not velocity... it might be useful to have a velocity sensor as well.
Plus I think pneumatics are harder to achieve than vibrations... I haven't managed to find any vibration things yet.. it might have to be tiny motors... or scavenged mobile phones.
The fun bit thou, if you're wearing it at practise... you'll know if somebody is using it without asking you. My brain just went into a lot of wrong possibilities.
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
the kicker of elves
371 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
the kicker of elves
371 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
Vibratey things are easy. Motor with an unbalanced wheel. Instant vibration. Would something for measuring the g-force be useful?
You wouldn't really need to know it while you're spinning (though some sort of heads up display worked into a pair of goggles would be cool) it just might be interesting to know what it is.
Vibratey things are easy. Motor with an unbalanced wheel. Instant vibration. Would something for measuring the g-force be useful?
You wouldn't really need to know it while you're spinning (though some sort of heads up display worked into a pair of goggles would be cool) it just might be interesting to know what it is.
Man is no more than a conduit for excrement to pass through.- daVinci
Jointly owned by BurdA and Tinypixie
Wielder of the voice of Patrick Stewart
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
old hand
1,174 posts
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Posted:
I'm not sure how you'd measure velocity because you'd need a reference point that's not connected to your toys which is going to be complicated very quickly.
Hyperlights already have accelerometers in them and I've played with them whilst hooked up to a PC, recording what different movements look like. Basically, spinning in a circle looks like a crude sin wave which goes up and down my 1g (9.81m/s)... but there's an extra shift on it which varies depending on how fsat you spin the things.
Getting meaningful data out of them is pretty tough, but something that vibrates based on the motion of the staff is certainly doable. One problem is that just rotating an accelerometer will shift it's output depending on it's direction relative to earth's gravity.
Using a gyroscope to detect the sort of things that happen when you do a burnoff would be very possible... and something I'd been considering for the HyperStaff (imagine LED equivalent of a burnoff!).
I'm not sure how you'd measure velocity because you'd need a reference point that's not connected to your toys which is going to be complicated very quickly.
Hyperlights already have accelerometers in them and I've played with them whilst hooked up to a PC, recording what different movements look like. Basically, spinning in a circle looks like a crude sin wave which goes up and down my 1g (9.81m/s)... but there's an extra shift on it which varies depending on how fsat you spin the things.
Getting meaningful data out of them is pretty tough, but something that vibrates based on the motion of the staff is certainly doable. One problem is that just rotating an accelerometer will shift it's output depending on it's direction relative to earth's gravity.
Using a gyroscope to detect the sort of things that happen when you do a burnoff would be very possible... and something I'd been considering for the HyperStaff (imagine LED equivalent of a burnoff!).
Cake or Death?
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Well I would have a fixed reference point - me. (okay, so semi relatively fixed...)
Did you connect the hyperlight by USB cable? or some bluetooth shenanigan?
Yeah I figured the accelerometers would great a direction where there wasn't one before... and up and down and left and right to a symmetrical object... I don't know how to get rid of that, or if it would be necessary (or if you would want to).
You might be able to downplay it by having multiple sensors for the same thing and then averaging the outputs... Not to average out gravity hopefully, but to average out direction... as it were.
On hyperstaffs, it would be interesting if the 'shaft' were touch sensitive... having a metal strip all the way along or somesuch... and colour could be controlled by where you were touching along the strip... contact would become very interesting then...
Well I would have a fixed reference point - me. (okay, so semi relatively fixed...)
Did you connect the hyperlight by USB cable? or some bluetooth shenanigan?
Yeah I figured the accelerometers would great a direction where there wasn't one before... and up and down and left and right to a symmetrical object... I don't know how to get rid of that, or if it would be necessary (or if you would want to).
You might be able to downplay it by having multiple sensors for the same thing and then averaging the outputs... Not to average out gravity hopefully, but to average out direction... as it were.
On hyperstaffs, it would be interesting if the 'shaft' were touch sensitive... having a metal strip all the way along or somesuch... and colour could be controlled by where you were touching along the strip... contact would become very interesting then...
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
SILVER Member
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Elusive and Bearded
3,597 posts
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Posted:
this gave me an idea that kinda off topic but not really in the sence of the thread title
What if you fixed a staff with motion capture stickers or something and had a thing to pick them up, would it be possible to have this data then sent to a set of goggles or glasses that shows you what the staff is doing as if it were floating. Seems a great way to fix planes and gat a different view of how a trick should work. Any thoughts?
EDITED_BY: Poje (1193341536)
Written by: Wooktastic
You wouldn't really need to know it while you're spinning (though some sort of heads up display worked into a pair of goggles would be cool) it just might be interesting to know what it is.
this gave me an idea that kinda off topic but not really in the sence of the thread title
What if you fixed a staff with motion capture stickers or something and had a thing to pick them up, would it be possible to have this data then sent to a set of goggles or glasses that shows you what the staff is doing as if it were floating. Seems a great way to fix planes and gat a different view of how a trick should work. Any thoughts?
EDITED_BY: Poje (1193341536)
O.B.E.S.E.
Owned by Mynci!
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,895 posts
Location: Cambridge UK
Posted:
I can't contribute much at this point apart from:
damn cool idea for a thread!
I can't contribute much at this point apart from:
damn cool idea for a thread!
Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant
Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.
'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
strain gauge innit, really you dont need to mesure the velocity, you just need to measure the centripedal force, wich would show up lovely on a stane gage, that and the length of teh stick is all you need to get velocity no?
T
disclaimer. im totally black up and could be hugely wrong
strain gauge innit, really you dont need to mesure the velocity, you just need to measure the centripedal force, wich would show up lovely on a stane gage, that and the length of teh stick is all you need to get velocity no?
T
disclaimer. im totally black up and could be hugely wrong
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
Pinker than thou
336 posts
Location: A little pink world all my own..
336 posts
Location: A little pink world all my own..
Posted:
Fast-forward to c.2010:
HoPper 1: "Whatever happened to Meg? We haven't seen her in ages.."
HoPper 2: "Well, you remember that thing she was trying with the cyborg staff? Well, she got that all working, wired herself up to it, and got into practising with the added sense of what happens to the staff all going on.."
HoPper 1: "Cool!!"
HoPper 2: "Yea, but she trained it so much that now she can't even watch anybody spinning anything without getting the most horrendous motion sickness and puking everywhere..."
(All that without going anywhere near the world of wrong possibilities...)
Fast-forward to c.2010:
HoPper 1: "Whatever happened to Meg? We haven't seen her in ages.."
HoPper 2: "Well, you remember that thing she was trying with the cyborg staff? Well, she got that all working, wired herself up to it, and got into practising with the added sense of what happens to the staff all going on.."
HoPper 1: "Cool!!"
HoPper 2: "Yea, but she trained it so much that now she can't even watch anybody spinning anything without getting the most horrendous motion sickness and puking everywhere..."
(All that without going anywhere near the world of wrong possibilities...)
A wise man once said: "You have two ears and one mouth, therefore you should shut the up and listen" (though, to be fair, he might not've put it _quite_ like that..)
BRONZE Member
the kicker of elves
371 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
the kicker of elves
371 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
Is it just me, or does it look like this thread is a treatise on turning fire spinners into borg?
Is it just me, or does it look like this thread is a treatise on turning fire spinners into borg?
Man is no more than a conduit for excrement to pass through.- daVinci
Jointly owned by BurdA and Tinypixie
Wielder of the voice of Patrick Stewart
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Tom: Wikipedia says strain gauges measure deformation... so unless I'm spinning REALLY fast... are you sure that's the thing you were thinking of? Would be cool to have on on there thou... just in case.
nigel: AWESOME! Even if that was the case in 2010... I'd still do it...
Wook: Yeah borg for the win.
Meanwhile... how to make both halves communicate? Bluetooth? Radio?
Tom: Wikipedia says strain gauges measure deformation... so unless I'm spinning REALLY fast... are you sure that's the thing you were thinking of? Would be cool to have on on there thou... just in case.
nigel: AWESOME! Even if that was the case in 2010... I'd still do it...
Wook: Yeah borg for the win.
Meanwhile... how to make both halves communicate? Bluetooth? Radio?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
so no, borg is a hivemind created by linking many minds together, we are talking about linking minds and props.
wearing a bluetooth earpeice woill make you a cyborg, but not part of a hivemind with eveyone else who wears one... :P
T
Written by: dictionary.com
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -
cy·ber·net·ics
–noun (used with a singular verb)
the study of human control functions and of mechanical and electronic systems designed to replace them, involving the application of statistical mechanics to communication engineering.
The American Heritage Science Dictionary -
cybernetics
The scientific study of communication and control processes in biological, mechanical, and electronic systems. Research in cybernetics often involves the comparison of these processes in biological and artificial systems.
American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
The general study of control and communication systems in living organisms and machines, especially the mathematical analysis of the flow of information. The term cybernetics was coined by Norbert Wiener, an American mathematician of the twentieth century.
so no, borg is a hivemind created by linking many minds together, we are talking about linking minds and props.
wearing a bluetooth earpeice woill make you a cyborg, but not part of a hivemind with eveyone else who wears one... :P
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
and yes, deformation, as the the head spins, the outward force can be used to deforme a small strain gauge... they are quite sensitive things, and small *shrug*
T
and yes, deformation, as the the head spins, the outward force can be used to deforme a small strain gauge... they are quite sensitive things, and small *shrug*
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Classically British
5,689 posts
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Posted:
Another possiblity...
Instead of vibrations - could you use electro-shock therapy to straighten planes?
Another possiblity...
Instead of vibrations - could you use electro-shock therapy to straighten planes?
Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
seriously, you're going to use the words electro-shock and straighten in the same sentence around me?
seriously, you're going to use the words electro-shock and straighten in the same sentence around me?
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
GOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Posted:
Nah, maybe when you still had hair....
Nah, maybe when you still had hair....
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
BRONZE Member
member
78 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
member
78 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
It's a good idea, but what makes me confused is I'm not sure what are you actually measuring. If your spinning poi in circles then you get an acceleration towards the centre, always.
If you wanted to measure the acceleration 'forwards' relatively to the poi you'll have some trouble because they rotate on the ends of their chains, and so forwards would be confused with backwards and sideways. A simple solution would be to add tails to the poi, which means that they always have the same face forwards. then you'd only need two accelerometers, one for the 'forward/backward' motion and one for the sideways motion.
It's a good idea, but what makes me confused is I'm not sure what are you actually measuring. If your spinning poi in circles then you get an acceleration towards the centre, always.
If you wanted to measure the acceleration 'forwards' relatively to the poi you'll have some trouble because they rotate on the ends of their chains, and so forwards would be confused with backwards and sideways. A simple solution would be to add tails to the poi, which means that they always have the same face forwards. then you'd only need two accelerometers, one for the 'forward/backward' motion and one for the sideways motion.
---
No statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically.
---
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
hmm.. although the acceleration is always towards the centre of rotation, the amount of centipetalforce (not centrifugal ) involved will vary depending on where it is in the swing.. so, although the direction would not be able to be determined (ie, wether it was going up or down) it would be able to determine wether it was at the top of swing, or at the bottom.
cheers, petey
hmm.. although the acceleration is always towards the centre of rotation, the amount of centipetalforce (not centrifugal
) involved will vary depending on where it is in the swing.. so, although the direction would not be able to be determined (ie, wether it was going up or down) it would be able to determine wether it was at the top of swing, or at the bottom.cheers, petey
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
BRONZE Member
Living it up
363 posts
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia
Living it up
363 posts
Location: Brisbane/Berlin, Australia
Posted:
Have I told you I love you anytime recently Meg? Not quite sure what you would hope to learn from this, but I think you should do it because you can!
Just a thought, you might want look at something like an Arduino board for the feedback. They cheap cheap, and I think you can get a version that already has bluetooth built in.
I remember a couple years back one of my dad's friends was using a similar approach to graft sonar on to his senses...
This stuff is cool because it's not particularly high tech, but really gets in to some weird territory over how elastic our senses really are.
Have I told you I love you anytime recently Meg? Not quite sure what you would hope to learn from this, but I think you should do it because you can!
Just a thought, you might want look at something like an Arduino board for the feedback. They cheap cheap, and I think you can get a version that already has bluetooth built in.
I remember a couple years back one of my dad's friends was using a similar approach to graft sonar on to his senses...
This stuff is cool because it's not particularly high tech, but really gets in to some weird territory over how elastic our senses really are.
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film
GOLD Member
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
the floor is a sea of tigers...
404 posts
Posted:
ok, i'm much too lazy to read post now... so i could be repeating, derailing, etc... appologies if i am.
Arduino is pretty cool to work with. I haven't used it personally, but i've heard many good things from interative arts people, hackers, tinkers and the like...
Arduino clone:
https://www.ladyada.net/make/boarduino/index.html
I personally don't recommend using a pic chip programming them is a pain (assembly isn't fun). You could use a higher level language to program it, but if you're going to do that maybe an Amtel AVR (that's what's used in the Arduino) would be a better choice.
However, if you were cheap, microchip does send out free samples of their PIC chips to you (you don't even have to pay shipping). but getting a programmer is a different issue.
Back onto the staff... back in uni, i made a staff with 2 1-axis accelrometers and it detected angular speed, "strikes", thrusts and somewhat approximated it's angle from the ground + the centre of rotation... it however did not detect rolling. You should be able to add a gryo sensor that could give you a better approximation of the staff's orientation (i don't think its readins are affected much by lateral movement).
ok, i'm much too lazy to read post now... so i could be repeating, derailing, etc... appologies if i am.
Arduino is pretty cool to work with. I haven't used it personally, but i've heard many good things from interative arts people, hackers, tinkers and the like...
Arduino clone:
https://www.ladyada.net/make/boarduino/index.html
I personally don't recommend using a pic chip programming them is a pain (assembly isn't fun). You could use a higher level language to program it, but if you're going to do that maybe an Amtel AVR (that's what's used in the Arduino) would be a better choice.
However, if you were cheap, microchip does send out free samples of their PIC chips to you (you don't even have to pay shipping). but getting a programmer is a different issue.
Back onto the staff... back in uni, i made a staff with 2 1-axis accelrometers and it detected angular speed, "strikes", thrusts and somewhat approximated it's angle from the ground + the centre of rotation... it however did not detect rolling. You should be able to add a gryo sensor that could give you a better approximation of the staff's orientation (i don't think its readins are affected much by lateral movement).
SILVER Member
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
Posted:
The concept of expanding ones sensorium is one that I have been interested in for quite a while.
Some people have been trying out magnetic implants to allow them to sense electrical and magnetic fields, here is a link
(pictures involve a little bit of blood, but no more than involved with a nasty cut on the finger)
https://www.bmezine.com/news/pubring/20040226.html
Props to MCP for thinking outside the box.
It'll be interesting to see how this progresses.
The concept of expanding ones sensorium is one that I have been interested in for quite a while.
Some people have been trying out magnetic implants to allow them to sense electrical and magnetic fields, here is a link
(pictures involve a little bit of blood, but no more than involved with a nasty cut on the finger)
https://www.bmezine.com/news/pubring/20040226.html
Props to MCP for thinking outside the box.
It'll be interesting to see how this progresses.
SILVER Member
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
403 posts
Location: the state of flux, Ireland
Posted:
Urr,
on second thoughts those implants don't seem to be working out so well, lots of problems with silicon capsules breaching and the magnets breaking down, yuck,
won't post the links cos they're a bit yarky. (pics galore)
Urr,
on second thoughts those implants don't seem to be working out so well, lots of problems with silicon capsules breaching and the magnets breaking down, yuck,
won't post the links cos they're a bit yarky. (pics galore)
SILVER Member
Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
479 posts
Location: Over the hills and far away, United Kingdom
Your friendly neighbourhood mad scientist
479 posts
Location: Over the hills and far away, United Kingdom
Posted:
They oughta try and use those little teflon coated magnets, like they use in chemistry labs...
As for sensing electrical and magnetic fields, most humans already can to a limited extent (seeing as we all have our own little bioelectric field). There have been medical studies on how frequencies used for mains electricity can cause nightmares and sleep paralysis.
If they're strong enough, I can sometimes sense electric fields...
They oughta try and use those little teflon coated magnets, like they use in chemistry labs...
As for sensing electrical and magnetic fields, most humans already can to a limited extent (seeing as we all have our own little bioelectric field). There have been medical studies on how frequencies used for mains electricity can cause nightmares and sleep paralysis.
If they're strong enough, I can sometimes sense electric fields...
"Love the art in yourself and not yourself in the art."
--Konstantin Stanislavisky
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Dave MRrrrrrr had the super spanktastic idea of NOT injecting magnets into your fingertips... Instead, why not just superglue them to your fingertip? Should have the same effect, won't be broken down by your body, isn't permanent and isn't putting heavy metals into your body.
That might be a big offtopic... whoopsey...
Dave MRrrrrrr had the super spanktastic idea of NOT injecting magnets into your fingertips... Instead, why not just superglue them to your fingertip? Should have the same effect, won't be broken down by your body, isn't permanent and isn't putting heavy metals into your body.
That might be a big offtopic... whoopsey...
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
SILVER Member
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
water based
5,125 posts
Location: melbourne, Australia
Posted:
i'd like to try that.. but i cant help but see something inconvenient happening between the magnets and my bank cards..
have been pondering more things to put in a staff, or in poi.. but no ideas yet... will keep thinking
i'd like to try that.. but i cant help but see something inconvenient happening between the magnets and my bank cards..
have been pondering more things to put in a staff, or in poi.. but no ideas yet... will keep thinking
"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"
*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com