Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Isolation question
Login/Join to ParticipateGOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
Is it all in the wrists (with chains, not socks)? i used to have a hard time keeping momentum in the heads but today I started flopping my wrists around and it seems that I can keep momentum and actually do isolations (looks like em to me anyway... messy but Ill fix that soon now that im this far).
Is it all in the wrists (with chains, not socks)? i used to have a hard time keeping momentum in the heads but today I started flopping my wrists around and it seems that I can keep momentum and actually do isolations (looks like em to me anyway... messy but Ill fix that soon now that im this far).
addict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
The wrist definitely comes into play when you're moving around with isolations, such as isolated weave, but is not necessary for isolations in general. Weight plays a big part in isolations, however, he key ingredient, I think, is applying enough force when the cord is actually taut, so that it carries when the head is free. Otherwise the isolation craps out on you at the top or just beyond.
The wrist definitely comes into play when you're moving around with isolations, such as isolated weave, but is not necessary for isolations in general. Weight plays a big part in isolations, however, he key ingredient, I think, is applying enough force when the cord is actually taut, so that it carries when the head is free. Otherwise the isolation craps out on you at the top or just beyond.
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
A little bit of a board whore
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
Posted:
Have to agree with that one. Weight is important, as it increases the inertia and will keep the string taut.
I was once told (and it actually worked quite well when I tried it with socks, although they are stretchy and easier to work with) was that when starting off and trying to do your first simple isolation, that the hand/arm movements you're looking for are is like winding down a car window.
Like I say, it worked really well with socks, and sort of works with chains. It also might not work if the only cars you've ever been in are ones with electric windows!
Have to agree with that one. Weight is important, as it increases the inertia and will keep the string taut.
I was once told (and it actually worked quite well when I tried it with socks, although they are stretchy and easier to work with) was that when starting off and trying to do your first simple isolation, that the hand/arm movements you're looking for are is like winding down a car window.
Like I say, it worked really well with socks, and sort of works with chains. It also might not work if the only cars you've ever been in are ones with electric windows!
Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"
GOLD Member
ARRRR!
529 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
ARRRR!
529 posts
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posted:
Pretty much all of my isolations are done with locked wrists and chains. Start with socks to get the arm movements down, then switch to chains and practice them over and over and over until they look and feel clean.
The isolated weave takes a looooong time to clean up so don't be impatient. I've been working on mine for about a year and it still needs some work.
Pretty much all of my isolations are done with locked wrists and chains. Start with socks to get the arm movements down, then switch to chains and practice them over and over and over until they look and feel clean.
The isolated weave takes a looooong time to clean up so don't be impatient. I've been working on mine for about a year and it still needs some work.
"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok
addict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
I have no idea what my isolated weaves look like, I just know they keep me nice and toasty warm on a cold night's spin :P
.
I have no idea what my isolated weaves look like, I just know they keep me nice and toasty warm on a cold night's spin :P
. Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
SILVER Member
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
Posted:
After frustratingly spinning the buzzsaw for weeks on end and getting nowhere, I decided to break the move down. Then I picked up isolations in 3 days once I understood the science behind it, I'm hoping to get it cleaned up within the month, by working on my weaker arm.
The key is to understand that the force/weight, of the poi head and the hand, have to be equal to each other for it to balance and create the isolated effect. By balancing the two forces (the force of you pulling on the string, and the centripetal force of ball pulling on you) you can move the point of equilibrium to the centre axis of the string.
Normally when doing the buzzsaw the centripetal force of the ball pushing out it is huge, making the poi pivot at the handle.
You'll know when you've got it right, 'cos it feels unusual.
Sam
After frustratingly spinning the buzzsaw for weeks on end and getting nowhere, I decided to break the move down. Then I picked up isolations in 3 days once I understood the science behind it, I'm hoping to get it cleaned up within the month, by working on my weaker arm.
The key is to understand that the force/weight, of the poi head and the hand, have to be equal to each other for it to balance and create the isolated effect. By balancing the two forces (the force of you pulling on the string, and the centripetal force of ball pulling on you) you can move the point of equilibrium to the centre axis of the string.
Normally when doing the buzzsaw the centripetal force of the ball pushing out it is huge, making the poi pivot at the handle.
You'll know when you've got it right, 'cos it feels unusual.
Sam
A little bit of a board whore
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
147 posts
Location: Glasgow
Posted:
Also, I've noticed that for some reason, when girls do it, it always helps if they wiggle their bum.
And I'm not being sexist or a dirty old man. They've told me this too
Also, I've noticed that for some reason, when girls do it, it always helps if they wiggle their bum.
And I'm not being sexist or a dirty old man. They've told me this too
Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"
enthusiast
220 posts
Location: The village of Edinburgh
220 posts
Location: The village of Edinburgh
Posted:
when I teach people the split time I tell them to wiggle their bum to get the timing right... seems to work and has benefits for the teacher as well
My tuppence worth: isolations are all in the technique. Practise turning the pedals on an imaginary bicycle enough and you'll get it
when I teach people the split time I tell them to wiggle their bum to get the timing right... seems to work and has benefits for the teacher as well
My tuppence worth: isolations are all in the technique. Practise turning the pedals on an imaginary bicycle enough and you'll get it
The insults of your enemy are a tribute to your bravery
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,099 posts
Location: Bideford and Bath, United Kingdom
Posted:
when your learning iso's i found it helped to try and make your hand follow the othe poi's head.
when your learning iso's i found it helped to try and make your hand follow the othe poi's head.
UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."
Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump
GOLD Member
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
(the person actually known as Chris Bailey)
544 posts
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Posted:
If your doing isolations at your side in wheelplane, you'll notice that everyone wiggles their butt.
If your doing isolations at your side in wheelplane, you'll notice that everyone wiggles their butt.
Peace, Love, Circles
SILVER Member
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
member
175 posts
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (UK)
Posted:
When I first started doing iso's, I'd alternatively stomp each foot to keep the beat...I looked like a baby learning to walk.
Strange, I know.
When I first started doing iso's, I'd alternatively stomp each foot to keep the beat...I looked like a baby learning to walk.
Strange, I know.
addict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
You folk have some pretty odd iso stories..
It's alot easier, methinx, to learn the mechanics of an isolation doing it in the wheel/wall plane, rather than buzzsaw. Iso isn't so easy in the buzzsaw due to the amount of movement and speed that needs to go into it to get it right. If you're having trouble tryin to get the movement down for an iso, try it in the wheel/wall plane. See Maelle's video for a nice example at about 1:10 here:
https://therob.free.fr/videos/Maelle_valentine_short.mpg
You folk have some pretty odd iso stories..
It's alot easier, methinx, to learn the mechanics of an isolation doing it in the wheel/wall plane, rather than buzzsaw. Iso isn't so easy in the buzzsaw due to the amount of movement and speed that needs to go into it to get it right. If you're having trouble tryin to get the movement down for an iso, try it in the wheel/wall plane. See Maelle's video for a nice example at about 1:10 here:
https://therob.free.fr/videos/Maelle_valentine_short.mpg
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
I've been able to do buzzsaw isos for a while actually. Then one night I started doing wall plane, and the reverse weave came out of it within 15 minutes. Beats me... I've tried all the stuff people have suggested and none of it ever worked for me.
Frustration I think was my biggest hurdle...
But I'm there now and happily learning.
I've been able to do buzzsaw isos for a while actually. Then one night I started doing wall plane, and the reverse weave came out of it within 15 minutes. Beats me... I've tried all the stuff people have suggested and none of it ever worked for me.
Frustration I think was my biggest hurdle...
But I'm there now and happily learning.
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
I find it's in the fingers - to get them clean you need to be giving the poi constant rotation from where you're gripping them so this rotation matches the speed at which your arms are moving around the circle. If you don't get them matched then it tends to look floppy and you'll find turning with them a right old pain.
I find it's in the fingers - to get them clean you need to be giving the poi constant rotation from where you're gripping them so this rotation matches the speed at which your arms are moving around the circle. If you don't get them matched then it tends to look floppy and you'll find turning with them a right old pain.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
isolations are sooooooo 2003 :P
T
isolations are sooooooo 2003 :P
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
addict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
It's not 2003 anymore?? Now you tell me
It's not 2003 anymore?? Now you tell me
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
i find that instead of having a constant pressure on the handle (opposing the inertial force of the poi head) throughout the revolution of the spin, it helps to have double the emphasis on the handle-down/head-up aspect and minus-double emphasis on the handle-up/head-down aspect.
if that makes any sense at all.
i find that instead of having a constant pressure on the handle (opposing the inertial force of the poi head) throughout the revolution of the spin, it helps to have double the emphasis on the handle-down/head-up aspect and minus-double emphasis on the handle-up/head-down aspect.
if that makes any sense at all.
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Push down on one side, up on the other?
Push down on one side, up on the other?
"Moo," said the happy cow.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
mr shui - that's a beautiful observation
it makes tonnes of sense and explains both why isolations feel like they have a 'beat' to them and what effect gravity makes to the forces you need to apply to your poi to keep isolations going consistently.
i think spiral that its even less than that: "only push down"
or:
"follow the circle described by the poi head with your hand but you need only 'feed' the rotation (i.e. apply force to the poi) on the part where the poi head is moving upwards."
cole. x
mr shui - that's a beautiful observation
it makes tonnes of sense and explains both why isolations feel like they have a 'beat' to them and what effect gravity makes to the forces you need to apply to your poi to keep isolations going consistently.
i think spiral that its even less than that: "only push down"
or:
"follow the circle described by the poi head with your hand but you need only 'feed' the rotation (i.e. apply force to the poi) on the part where the poi head is moving upwards."
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
addict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
That's what I was tryin to say, but I suppose I did a poor job of it. For me, applied inertial force is often in the vicinity of 5 to 9 of the forward rotation (clock reference), whereas the rest of the clock is used for guidance.
Written by:
"follow the circle described by the poi head with your hand but you need only 'feed' the rotation (i.e. apply force to the poi) on the part where the poi head is moving upwards."
That's what I was tryin to say, but I suppose I did a poor job of it. For me, applied inertial force is often in the vicinity of 5 to 9 of the forward rotation (clock reference), whereas the rest of the clock is used for guidance.
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
GOLD Member
HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
128 posts
Location: Bay Area, California, USA
HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
128 posts
Location: Bay Area, California, USA
Posted:
I found a good way to learn isolations was by going into them from lockouts. After you have a good grasp on lockouts try following the opposite poi with your opposite hands instead of keeping them locked.
So what Im basically saying is to try an "un-locked" lockout. It worked for me, hope it helps you.
Peace!
I found a good way to learn isolations was by going into them from lockouts. After you have a good grasp on lockouts try following the opposite poi with your opposite hands instead of keeping them locked.
So what Im basically saying is to try an "un-locked" lockout. It worked for me, hope it helps you.
Peace! missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"
^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^
newbie
4 posts
Location: Quebec
4 posts
Location: Quebec
Posted:
Thats true...! When you practice with suck is much easier to understand the move. And without being sexist too, its also true that girls who move there bum, it helps to get the isolation! (well, my friends were laughing at me but I got it quite fast!)
Good luck!
Thats true...! When you practice with suck is much easier to understand the move. And without being sexist too, its also true that girls who move there bum, it helps to get the isolation! (well, my friends were laughing at me but I got it quite fast!)
Good luck!
SILVER Member
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
no excuses. no apologies.
1,799 posts
Location: aotearoa, New Zealand
Posted:
cole
yeah thats the ticket - feed the beat. nice one.
thats one of the things i like about iso's, is the balance between force and unforce (/antiforce/nonforce/forcelessness).
buzzsaw isolation tangles? tasty.
cole
yeah thats the ticket - feed the beat. nice one.
thats one of the things i like about iso's, is the balance between force and unforce (/antiforce/nonforce/forcelessness).
buzzsaw isolation tangles? tasty.
those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.
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