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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Apparently, Science is no longer limited to finding natural explanations to physical phenomena.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the first official sign of the downfall of the American Empire.
Apparently, Science is no longer limited to finding natural explanations to physical phenomena.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the first official sign of the downfall of the American Empire.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
link???
and i don't think its the first official sign. i think the "elections" were the first... but this is a worse one, for sure!
link???
and i don't think its the first official sign. i think the "elections" were the first... but this is a worse one, for sure!
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
Pooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home
Posted:
Here you go Kyri: The one that is quite upsetting
The one that manages to make me giggle about such a frustrating topic
Here you go Kyri: The one that is quite upsetting
The one that manages to make me giggle about such a frustrating topic
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
:. . coleman's creationist retaliation plan . .:
step one:
buy 20,000 copies of richard dawkin's 'the blind watchmaker'.
step two:
drop them (all in one big go of course) from a helicopter down onto the kansas state board of education.
they won't read it, but the destruction of the building of the deciding body that took such an outrageous decision, by a book that provides clear, concise and logical reasoning that debunks all of these so-called 'anti-evolution arguments' would be a beautiful irony
cole. x
:. . coleman's creationist retaliation plan . .:
step one:
buy 20,000 copies of richard dawkin's 'the blind watchmaker'.
step two:
drop them (all in one big go of course) from a helicopter down onto the kansas state board of education.
they won't read it, but the destruction of the building of the deciding body that took such an outrageous decision, by a book that provides clear, concise and logical reasoning that debunks all of these so-called 'anti-evolution arguments' would be a beautiful irony
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Getting to the other side 
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
right... there;s no evidence for the genetic code???
er... yes.. running AWAY from there...
love your solution cole
right... there;s no evidence for the genetic code???
er... yes.. running AWAY from there...
love your solution cole
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
Sounds like a good plan to me
EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1131629951)
Written by: Avant News
In mathematics, any teacher caught instructing students on the concepts of "differential calculus" or "irrational numbers" will be burned as a witch.
Sounds like a good plan to me
EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1131629951)
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I just saw an short interview with a guy called Robertson?, who was obviously a high-up fundamentalist christian annoyed that the vote on this matter in a different state had not gone his way.
He was warning the population of the state that, if a natural disaster of some kind happened there in the near future, they shouldn't bother asking God for help
He suggested they pray to Darwin instead.
He was serious as well; it was quite disturbing to watch.
I just saw an short interview with a guy called Robertson?, who was obviously a high-up fundamentalist christian annoyed that the vote on this matter in a different state had not gone his way.
He was warning the population of the state that, if a natural disaster of some kind happened there in the near future, they shouldn't bother asking God for help
He suggested they pray to Darwin instead.
He was serious as well; it was quite disturbing to watch.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
This blows. Thank God I live in a semi normal state not overrun by religious zealots. for irony there.
I hope they bring this up with the supreme court.
This blows. Thank God I live in a semi normal state not overrun by religious zealots.
for irony there.I hope they bring this up with the supreme court.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
look a rainbow!
237 posts
Location: Waterford, CT
237 posts
Location: Waterford, CT
Posted:
The world makes me want to cry sometimes.
Or hit people in the face with a two-by-four. I just can't decide at the moment.
The world makes me want to cry sometimes.
Or hit people in the face with a two-by-four. I just can't decide at the moment.
"Happiness is like peeing your pants, everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth."
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
I would have to say that Richard Dawkins makes a compelling argument, however in the end does not achieve his goal of setting up atheism as the new religion. Rather he makes a compelling argument for agnosticism...
I have no problem with teaching inteligent design... just not as science. Maybe in a comparitive religions or philosophy class offering. Hell, I think a forced cultural diversity class would be a good thing to help these darn kids learn to live with people that are different than them.
I would have to say that Richard Dawkins makes a compelling argument, however in the end does not achieve his goal of setting up atheism as the new religion. Rather he makes a compelling argument for agnosticism...
I have no problem with teaching inteligent design... just not as science. Maybe in a comparitive religions or philosophy class offering. Hell, I think a forced cultural diversity class would be a good thing to help these darn kids learn to live with people that are different than them.
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
I think it would be interesting to include both Intelligent Design/creationism and Darwin's Theory of Evolution in a school science curriculum as an example of what scientific method is, and is not. And what belief in received word is/is not. I think it would be useful to establish early in people's education the concepts of hypothesis/proof, Occam's razor, predictions/experiment/repeatability, the ideas of Karl Popper about succession of theories and so on. One benefit is that there might be less people inclined to use the phrase 'scientific fact'!
Evolution is not 'received truth' and it is not a fact. It is a theory, which does have some problems with evidence... but is currently accepted as the best 'scientific' one around.
Following the basic 'scientific principle' of Occam's razor, an omnipotent and (hopefully)intelligent creator can be postulated within scientific method as the simplest 'entity' explaining the observed phenomena: suitability to environment, functional complexity etc. It can't be science however if the possibility of 'disproving' it isn't allowed; if no other hypotheses are permitted.
It would also be useful for students to realise that it is a scientifically untenable leap to then say that an 'intelligent' creator is therefore associated with a particular religion, book, tribal story etc. When the only evidence for that is that it says so in the book. Or that people believe it.
Maybe I should get a teaching job in Kansas. I could say: "of course I believe in Intelligent design.. the Great Triple Breasted Goddess isn't Stupid!
*goes back to watching hundreds of monkeys typing Hamlet*
I think it would be interesting to include both Intelligent Design/creationism and Darwin's Theory of Evolution in a school science curriculum as an example of what scientific method is, and is not. And what belief in received word is/is not. I think it would be useful to establish early in people's education the concepts of hypothesis/proof, Occam's razor, predictions/experiment/repeatability, the ideas of Karl Popper about succession of theories and so on. One benefit is that there might be less people inclined to use the phrase 'scientific fact'!
Evolution is not 'received truth' and it is not a fact. It is a theory, which does have some problems with evidence... but is currently accepted as the best 'scientific' one around.
Following the basic 'scientific principle' of Occam's razor, an omnipotent and (hopefully)intelligent creator can be postulated within scientific method as the simplest 'entity' explaining the observed phenomena: suitability to environment, functional complexity etc. It can't be science however if the possibility of 'disproving' it isn't allowed; if no other hypotheses are permitted.
It would also be useful for students to realise that it is a scientifically untenable leap to then say that an 'intelligent' creator is therefore associated with a particular religion, book, tribal story etc. When the only evidence for that is that it says so in the book. Or that people believe it.
Maybe I should get a teaching job in Kansas. I could say: "of course I believe in Intelligent design.. the Great Triple Breasted Goddess isn't Stupid!
*goes back to watching hundreds of monkeys typing Hamlet*
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Doc, I have the feeling I am missing an irony or in joke here..
Cos otherwise I don't understand what you are saying... How does creationism in schools bring down the Empire?
Scientific method is not a synonym for America! The American (or any other) Empire is based on cultural, economic and military domination, surely, not the niceties of the processes of proof.
Or are you meaning the rest of the world will now say 'oh, pfwah,
these peeps are epistemologically inappropriate, we'll have our world back now thanks?!?
Might work for turning off the telly, but, um, I can't see a smart bomb suddenly getting embarrased and going home...
Written by: Doc Lightning
Apparently, Science is no longer limited to finding natural explanations to physical phenomena.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the first official sign of the downfall of the American Empire.
Doc, I have the feeling I am missing an irony or in joke here..
Cos otherwise I don't understand what you are saying... How does creationism in schools bring down the Empire?Scientific method is not a synonym for America! The American (or any other) Empire is based on cultural, economic and military domination, surely, not the niceties of the processes of proof.
Or are you meaning the rest of the world will now say 'oh, pfwah,
these peeps are epistemologically inappropriate, we'll have our world back now thanks?!?Might work for turning off the telly, but, um, I can't see a smart bomb suddenly getting embarrased and going home...
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
new gabe, exactly how long do you think an empire with no science can last? without science we only advance by stealing, ergo everyone else will get new better things FIRST...
altho, as we already have enough nuclear power to destory teh world several times over......
so maybe you're right... but i really suspect enough stupid people can destroy themselves quite effectively...
new gabe, exactly how long do you think an empire with no science can last? without science we only advance by stealing, ergo everyone else will get new better things FIRST...
altho, as we already have enough nuclear power to destory teh world several times over......
so maybe you're right... but i really suspect enough stupid people can destroy themselves quite effectively...
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
We had a "science and religion" theme - in religious education, not in science. We got told about Popper's theories and how science works.
Given that there is no RE in the States, maybe it would be best suited for philosophy, or whatever similar lectures there are. But who am I talking to... posting here isn't going to make the Kansas school board use their brains
We had a "science and religion" theme - in religious education, not in science. We got told about Popper's theories and how science works.
Given that there is no RE in the States, maybe it would be best suited for philosophy, or whatever similar lectures there are. But who am I talking to... posting here isn't going to make the Kansas school board use their brains
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
Classes in the US public school system: (read-> goverment funded schools)
1. Maths
2. Science (or what passes for it
)
3. "Social Studies" which in primary school teaches you things like what are firefighters and that there's other countries in the world and what have you, in middle school (our 6-8, brits 7-9) teaches some US history, some basic geography (you hope) some world culture stuff, and in our case we did some classic history as well (greece/rome). In high school (the last four years) there is some US history and some world history, and civics, and some high schools offer elective classes in psychology or what have you.
4. English. Starts out as spelling, writing, reading comprehension, moves on to teaching you to write papers and study literature classics and poetry.
5. Everything else becomes elective starting at year six (england's 7) anyway, except P.E...
I don't think our already overloaded attempt at social studies is going to cope with that... and i also think the presence of religion in our school boards is going to be too strong for it? to be honest i think primary school science is probably the best place to approach the subject! but, what can we do? :/
In my high school, which is one of the better ones, we still had no philosophy or religion electives offered on a regular basis, and the occasional religious studies elective was very very broad (focused a lot on islam if i recall, but otherwise was just "this exists, is generally practiced here")
Classes in the US public school system: (read-> goverment funded schools)
1. Maths
2. Science (or what passes for it
)3. "Social Studies" which in primary school teaches you things like what are firefighters and that there's other countries in the world and what have you, in middle school (our 6-8, brits 7-9) teaches some US history, some basic geography (you hope) some world culture stuff, and in our case we did some classic history as well (greece/rome). In high school (the last four years) there is some US history and some world history, and civics, and some high schools offer elective classes in psychology or what have you.
4. English. Starts out as spelling, writing, reading comprehension, moves on to teaching you to write papers and study literature classics and poetry.
5. Everything else becomes elective starting at year six (england's 7) anyway, except P.E...
I don't think our already overloaded attempt at social studies is going to cope with that... and i also think the presence of religion in our school boards is going to be too strong for it? to be honest i think primary school science is probably the best place to approach the subject! but, what can we do? :/
In my high school, which is one of the better ones, we still had no philosophy or religion electives offered on a regular basis, and the occasional religious studies elective was very very broad (focused a lot on islam if i recall, but otherwise was just "this exists, is generally practiced here")
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
I think the Egyptians did pretty well for a few thousand years; with creator Gods and Goddesses by the bucket.
But you know, I don't hear that the Kansas types want to stop the understanding of chemistry, the advance of technology, development of weapons, the ability to steal etc... just the definition of what started it all off in the first place... and which brand of God we are supposed to buy while we're here...
Written by: Kyrian
new gabe, exactly how long do you think an empire with no science can last? without science we only advance by stealing,
I think the Egyptians did pretty well for a few thousand years; with creator Gods and Goddesses by the bucket.
But you know, I don't hear that the Kansas types want to stop the understanding of chemistry, the advance of technology, development of weapons, the ability to steal etc... just the definition of what started it all off in the first place... and which brand of God we are supposed to buy while we're here...
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
Muddy fingernails
505 posts
Location: Way oop norf, Scotland (UK)
Muddy fingernails
505 posts
Location: Way oop norf, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Good grief.
As if it wasn't hard enough getting kids to understand science as it is, now they're going to confuse the poor little sods even further.
I can just see what would happen if some of my students heard of this: 'I don't have to learn this 'cos none of it is true anyway', and yes, I know that's not what they've said, but kids have the amazing ability to read into things just what they want to hear. At least the more obstreperous ones do.
Good grief.
As if it wasn't hard enough getting kids to understand science as it is, now they're going to confuse the poor little sods even further.
I can just see what would happen if some of my students heard of this: 'I don't have to learn this 'cos none of it is true anyway', and yes, I know that's not what they've said, but kids have the amazing ability to read into things just what they want to hear. At least the more obstreperous ones do.
Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
KITTENS!!!!
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
Well technically, KatP, if the little tykes ARE that smart than they should be able to say "I don't have ot learn this because none of it is true" anyway just by understanding the way science works and the big misnomer "scientific fact"... But I digress.
* Note: I am not a teacher, and can comment only from my experiences in school as a student, but...
Hey, I think it's great. Because now it's only a matter of time before people start suing over not being allowed to have THEIR religious creation story taught as science. Courts tend to be a bit more objective than boards, something about oversight commitees and stuff...
Well technically, KatP, if the little tykes ARE that smart than they should be able to say "I don't have ot learn this because none of it is true" anyway just by understanding the way science works and the big misnomer "scientific fact"... But I digress.
* Note: I am not a teacher, and can comment only from my experiences in school as a student, but...
Hey, I think it's great. Because now it's only a matter of time before people start suing over not being allowed to have THEIR religious creation story taught as science. Courts tend to be a bit more objective than boards, something about oversight commitees and stuff...
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
indeed i8beefy2
exactly!
indeed i8beefy2
Written by: newgabe
Maybe I should get a teaching job in Kansas. I could say: "of course I believe in Intelligent design.. the Great Triple Breasted Goddess isn't Stupid!
exactly!
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
I can see ID happening, though you only have to scratch the surface to realise that "I" actually stands for "Idiot"
-- I'm not joking. Most things in biology are so poorly put together that it only a moron would design them that way. Perhaps the Creator was hungover...
I's been posted before but this is a good place to bring it it up again: Open letter to the Kanas Education Board
EDITED_BY: Domino (1131821727)
I can see ID happening, though you only have to scratch the surface to realise that "I" actually stands for "Idiot"
-- I'm not joking. Most things in biology are so poorly put together that it only a moron would design them that way. Perhaps the Creator was hungover...
I's been posted before but this is a good place to bring it it up again: Open letter to the Kanas Education Board
EDITED_BY: Domino (1131821727)
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
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