Forums > Social Discussion > Bulgarian baton and poi twirling federation

Posted: 27th Aug 2005
congrats with the federation

as far as i know there is no poi based international federations etc

only hop

personally i tink poi should remain non competetive (thats just my opinion) as people have as much fun making up new moves etc. also it would be very hard to judge as there would be a lot of cross over with dance etc.

an international poi federation could work but i imagine it would need an awsome amount of commitment and a lot of spinners are flakes
and as i said before Hop acts like one anyway

back

Posted: 28th Aug 2005
Thank you:). In connection with baton twirling rules there's not a problem at all because we're going to join NBTA-Europe . But on poi twirling the idea about the rules is not clear yet. May be they will be close to those of baton twirling. The other idea is poi twirling not to be a competitive sport like you said, but everything will be well organized if such a federation exists. In the last resort poi twirling will be developed as a non competitive sport. E.g in Aikido the competitions are not permited but an international association exists.
In my future sport club juggling will be additionally teached in order to improve the coordination and to achieve a fast progress in poi twirling and especially in baton twirling which is much more difficult than poi twirling
In any case i'm going to be very grateful to everyone for giving me any advise, opinion or idea.
Be wild, be safe

Posted: 28th Aug 2005

Written by: baton dancer

---

...and especially in baton twirling which is much more difficult than poi twirling...

---

You looking to start a fight?
(Seriously though, I really don't think that's the case...)

Anyhooo - Re: Poi Federation - It's been attempted (and certainly discussed) many times before.
What would be the point of it?
By creating rules and guidelines you're taking away alot of the freedom there is in poi - Take a look at the WJF (World Juggling Federation) where it's pretty much pure technique and style/flair is either disregarded or even frowned upon.
I personally can't see the point in creating a federation for something as free and all encompassing as poi...

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Posted: 28th Aug 2005
i had the exact same reaction to durbs when u said baton is much harder.


but i don't think there needs to be a poi federation o association because HoP works just as well and it is much easier and nicer to be part of a community. and the reason aikiddo isn' competitive is because it is very hard to judge because no moves are attacking it is purely deffence based, and most associations do encourage competetiveness which i do not think is a good idea the community is much nicer when it is people sharing there's skills with others and appreciating each other's skills.

UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump

Posted: 28th Aug 2005
may be, first , it'll be appropriate to start with a specification.when i said baton i was meaning BATON, not staff or club.batons are shorter than staff and longer than club. for these who practice baton twirling should be clear what i'm talking about.baton twirling is harder than poi twirling because batons are not fixed to the hand like poi. the movements with batons are not only with the wrist, elbow, shoulder, but with fingers too. there are a lot of sliding tricks, upcastings etc.even the only reason the baton is not fixed to the arm make it harder.
i don't want you to consider that i don't like poi twirling. i'm falling in love with poi twirling, baton twirling and juggling and in plus i think that all the twirling arts and artists have to be a big twirling community. every twirling sport gives ideas for the other ones. But the fact that a federation will exist doesn't mean that it refuse the existing of the community. i hope that this federation will continue to be part of the community and the community to be part of the federation. the difference is that the federation is juridically organized form of existence of the community. i dont know how is the situation with the poi communities abroad but here 1)the good poi twirlers are not more than 15-20as i know. and they are not too willing to teach the others. there are 2 or 3 fire dancing troups and a lot of people like watching them but noone can learn poi twirling. in plus breakdancers are almost the same community as poi twirling comm, but there are national and world championships notwithstanding the fact that breakdancing is too difficult to be puted in rules too. thats why the way of estimating will not be the same like in some martial arts (punch -1 point, kick 2 points blabla- butterfly-1point, 5 beat chase 3 points etc) but it wiil be close to breakdancing and baton twirling rules. thank you for writting see you soon .
Be wild, be safe.

Posted: 28th Aug 2005


"i was meaning BATON, not staff or club" - I know what a baton is, and im 99% sure that everyone else does. It still made me go a little like the other two, but the I realised, we dont do baton, we dont know how technical it can get, and I also believe that as you are new to poi, you do not realise how technical poi can get. And therein lies the problem. We can argue about this all day as we dont know the technicalities of the other's discipline. WE need someone who does both baton AND poi, both to a high standard, to tell us what to think.



"batons are not fixed to the hand like poi" - Have you heard of PoiPoiPoi?



"they are not too willing to teach the others" - Tell them to share and if they dont, threaten to tell their mothers that they arent playing fairly with all the other children



(the above post only works if you believe that hardness = technicality)
EDITED_BY: University Can Offer Future (1125240948)

Posted: 28th Aug 2005
no, in my opinion hardness and technicality are not the same. With regard to baton twirling - i don't want to say yhat i'm very good in baton twirling ot something elsе. i'm an unpretending boy and my goal is not say what can i do or what i can't do. in any case in this year we filmed 5 videos on 1 baton, 2 batons twirling, 1 baton-air style, especially for Eurosport and part of them were broadcasted on the mentioned television in the end of mai this year.... >>> " WE need someone who does both baton AND poi, both to a high standard, to tell us what to think."
this theme was created to ask you what do you think about creating an organisation of this type, not to judge how good ami in baton or poi twirling. it's thoughtless.... i'm preparing everything for the registration and "it seems" that i practice Poi twirling tootoo...
actually i dont know wt is "PoiPoiPoi"or may be i know what it is but the name is not the same here?!? would you explain me please:).thank you in advance.and at all events, thank you for taking part in this discussion
Be wild, be safe

Posted: 29th Aug 2005
PoiPoiPoi - is a person (he runs www.spherculism.com)
The point UCOF was trying to make is that there are LOADS of moves which involve releasing the poi, catching the poi (either with a hand or with the other poi), bouncing the poi of different parts of the body and letting the poi slide/roll around your body ("Contact Poi").
But anyway, this is off topic

I still don't really see the point of a Poi Federation; It's not (and personally don't think ever should be) a sport/competitive thing.
By creating one, you would be segregating the community - those who wanted to join and those who didn't. It might create an elitist group and I can only see it stifling amd limiting the development of poi spinning as a whole - it doesn't encourage people to think outside the box.
You're example of a point system, whilst being fairly innaccurate in terms of point scoring. I would say was fundamentally flawed.
Poi is different to say baton twirling (with regards to throws for example) in that all the "basic" patterns (By basic I mean all weaves up to 7bt, butterfly variations, windmills etc) can pretty much be taught to anyone (with the right teacher) within a couple of hours, as it's simply a matter of arm/wrist placement.
The tricky stuff (throws, catches, hyperloops/airwraps, whip-catches/tosses) has soooooooooo many variations that it would be far too hard to qualify each move into a "difficulty rating".
Also everyone's individual style can make the same moves look incredibly different.
The very idea of a competition suggests one spinner is better than another - which is not at all what poi spinning is about. All it would mean would be the "winner" has learnt more moves or performs them in a manner which pleases the judges.
*side note*
I've taken part in one poi competition and have since vowed to never enter one again - poi spinning first and foremost (to me) - is a dance or form of expression - to say one person is better than another is firstly insulting/demoralising to any who didn't win and would/could lead to arrogance from the winner.
*end side note*

The only reason I could see for creating a poi federation would be to create a set of sensible guidlines with regards to fire-spinning, create a sense of community and help establish a global network of spinners.
Firstly, this already exists to a far greater extent on the internet and local gatherings/festivals which have no entry-barriers and secondly would only work in for those who joined it and would fail in the above goals as it would have limited scope of the amount of people it would reach. It would only be a small blip in the already global community of fire spinners.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Posted: 29th Aug 2005
Yup, throwing poi is where its at IMHO