Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > NonJedi Inspiration.
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I feel a long one coming on... but I've been quiet lately so I'm due.
OK, I went to Uberpoi and saw the worlds most amazing poi spinners yet one of the most fundamental points that I learned was... "Wow, these guys have put a ton of time and effort into this!" (I mean do you KNOW how long Arashi's been spinning
)
So firstly, tons of respect and love to all the Jedi in the world. Those guys and gals who are busting their butts to rock my world are some of my favorite artists in any field.
But... I'm never gonna be them. I don't WANT to be them. All of the poi spinners that I respect have a level of obsession that just isn't me. I've always been a very balanced person. If I sit for a few hours, I wanna dance, if I dance for a few hours, I wanna sit. If I go out on Weds, I wanna do quieter hobbies on Thursday. And if I stay home Friday night, damn sure I'm out on Saturday.
I'm not a flake. I follow through. I'm not lazy. BUT I don't spend 8 hours a week on any given hobby.
In fact, I'll be honest, I spend an average of hour a week on Poi. For the last 4 years. Some months I might spin more and then don't touch my poi for months.
So my question is this:
What's the most effective way for a fair weather firespinner like myself to progress and stay inspired?
I accept the fact that I'm never gonna be great. It's honestly not a goal. I think I've suffered a bit of a plateau lately because I've been looking to the Jedi for lessons and inspiration... but I'm not on the Jedi path. If I spent my 'one hour a week' drilling planes or ironing out microscopic timing differences, I don't actually think I'd progress.
I respect that there is a Jedi path. Concepts like "there are no moves" and "there are no beats" and "unconsious flow" and "ideal form" and "the mariage of dance and musicality" are all milestones along that path...
(TIme for an analogy no?)
When I was at university there were several different chemistry courses.
There was "Chemistry for Chemistry Majors" which I took.
There was "Chemistry for Other Science Majors" which didn't QUITE go into the depth but was still pretty darn hard.
Then there was "Chemistry for Non Science Majors" which really just gave an overview and focused less on theory and more on general ideas and simpler applications. None of them were actually any easier or harder, they just focused on different things.
There were great professors for "Chemistry for Chemists" but those weren't the same professors who taught the other courses. There were different professors who really focusd on the Chemistry for non scientists". These professors were equally brilliant but more in the area of making it accessable to all, rather than the minutia that only a chemist could understand.
I feel like for the last 4 years I've been running a C- in a 'Poi for Jedi' class and maybe that isn't the best course for me... since I'm NOT on the Jedi road. I mean NO disrespct for my heroes that are pushing the envelope. Those '4 hour a day' guys deserve every accolade they'll ever get and more. I don't want a hand out or a magic pill that will make me them.
I feel like I actually understand what the major theories in the "Poi for Jedi" sylabus but have no shot or desire at passing the final.
What's in the sylabus for the "Poi for Non Jedi" class? And who are the master teachers in that area? What are the lessons, concepts and thoeries? How can I be the most effective NonJedi? Because "Doing 20% of what the Jedi do" isn't the working for me.
I feel a long one coming on... but I've been quiet lately so I'm due.
OK, I went to Uberpoi and saw the worlds most amazing poi spinners yet one of the most fundamental points that I learned was... "Wow, these guys have put a ton of time and effort into this!" (I mean do you KNOW how long Arashi's been spinning
)So firstly, tons of respect and love to all the Jedi in the world. Those guys and gals who are busting their butts to rock my world are some of my favorite artists in any field.
But... I'm never gonna be them. I don't WANT to be them. All of the poi spinners that I respect have a level of obsession that just isn't me. I've always been a very balanced person. If I sit for a few hours, I wanna dance, if I dance for a few hours, I wanna sit. If I go out on Weds, I wanna do quieter hobbies on Thursday. And if I stay home Friday night, damn sure I'm out on Saturday.
I'm not a flake. I follow through. I'm not lazy. BUT I don't spend 8 hours a week on any given hobby.
In fact, I'll be honest, I spend an average of hour a week on Poi. For the last 4 years. Some months I might spin more and then don't touch my poi for months.
So my question is this:
What's the most effective way for a fair weather firespinner like myself to progress and stay inspired?
I accept the fact that I'm never gonna be great. It's honestly not a goal. I think I've suffered a bit of a plateau lately because I've been looking to the Jedi for lessons and inspiration... but I'm not on the Jedi path. If I spent my 'one hour a week' drilling planes or ironing out microscopic timing differences, I don't actually think I'd progress.
I respect that there is a Jedi path. Concepts like "there are no moves" and "there are no beats" and "unconsious flow" and "ideal form" and "the mariage of dance and musicality" are all milestones along that path...
(TIme for an analogy no?)
When I was at university there were several different chemistry courses.
There was "Chemistry for Chemistry Majors" which I took.
There was "Chemistry for Other Science Majors" which didn't QUITE go into the depth but was still pretty darn hard.
Then there was "Chemistry for Non Science Majors" which really just gave an overview and focused less on theory and more on general ideas and simpler applications. None of them were actually any easier or harder, they just focused on different things.
There were great professors for "Chemistry for Chemists" but those weren't the same professors who taught the other courses. There were different professors who really focusd on the Chemistry for non scientists". These professors were equally brilliant but more in the area of making it accessable to all, rather than the minutia that only a chemist could understand.
I feel like for the last 4 years I've been running a C- in a 'Poi for Jedi' class and maybe that isn't the best course for me... since I'm NOT on the Jedi road. I mean NO disrespct for my heroes that are pushing the envelope. Those '4 hour a day' guys deserve every accolade they'll ever get and more. I don't want a hand out or a magic pill that will make me them.
I feel like I actually understand what the major theories in the "Poi for Jedi" sylabus but have no shot or desire at passing the final.
What's in the sylabus for the "Poi for Non Jedi" class? And who are the master teachers in that area? What are the lessons, concepts and thoeries? How can I be the most effective NonJedi? Because "Doing 20% of what the Jedi do" isn't the working for me.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
I didnt mean to imply that these ideas had been mastered or even really grappled with by many people.. I'm just saying the community, imo, hit a standstill during this great renaissance.. Techies running around like kids, babbling incoherently at the wonder that had caught a glimpse of.. it was like a grand reset button was pressed on the community.. those with the diehard madness (;)) pressed forward.. the rest of the community just stood and watched.. and we tried to learn poi all over again.. and still are.. its like a paradigm shift.. think of it like seeing the world before newton. during newton, and after einstein.. its like living in a whoel new world you know..
but I think that presents an incredible amount of stress to any but the most insane.. they are driven by their madness.. while the others.. well.. dont seem so driven at all..
I REALLY do miss the summers where you could learn 5-10 tricks and feel truly accomplished as a spinner that summer.. regardless of level.. and in all that I've done.. I just dont feel that anymore.. and I dont think a lot of us do..
glad I helped you think a bit more on this rob.. you can thank nyc for making me think about it.. even if it did take 4 pages to get here.. HA..
I'm going to end this now.. since its pretty much a repeat of my last post.
I didnt mean to imply that these ideas had been mastered or even really grappled with by many people.. I'm just saying the community, imo, hit a standstill during this great renaissance.. Techies running around like kids, babbling incoherently at the wonder that had caught a glimpse of.. it was like a grand reset button was pressed on the community.. those with the diehard madness (;)) pressed forward.. the rest of the community just stood and watched.. and we tried to learn poi all over again.. and still are.. its like a paradigm shift.. think of it like seeing the world before newton. during newton, and after einstein.. its like living in a whoel new world you know..
but I think that presents an incredible amount of stress to any but the most insane.. they are driven by their madness.. while the others.. well.. dont seem so driven at all..
I REALLY do miss the summers where you could learn 5-10 tricks and feel truly accomplished as a spinner that summer.. regardless of level.. and in all that I've done.. I just dont feel that anymore.. and I dont think a lot of us do..
glad I helped you think a bit more on this rob.. you can thank nyc for making me think about it.. even if it did take 4 pages to get here.. HA..
I'm going to end this now.. since its pretty much a repeat of my last post.
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
rev
thanks for that post, i agree with what you say, i dont remember those summers though.. but i try not to be scared by the future, i get excited about it instead, but sometiems there is a fine line between fear and excitement...
rev
thanks for that post, i agree with what you say, i dont remember those summers though.. but i try not to be scared by the future, i get excited about it instead, but sometiems there is a fine line between fear and excitement... Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
i believe this kind of thing occurs in cycles but for different people each time...
that's what poi felt like for me when tangles and isolations were unleashed upon the poi world a few years back.
but i think many people have felt like that before, there are people that feel like this now and i believe (at least i hope), that many people will feel like that in years to come.
the 'huge turning point' feeling disappeared after a while for me and i'm not sure it ever comes back for any individual - my attitude to poi is very different now to what it was back then.
as such, i doubt i will ever put the sort of effort into understanding and playing with 'new' areas of poi technique that i and so many others have in the past.
and it is this i think that brings with it the feeling rev describes above
i do think that the advent of the widenening of the understanding of antispin, inside planes and multi-plane spinning by certain people and through the community as a whole have definitely made me feel pangs of what i felt back then - its just a lot easier to sit back learn by osmosis as opposed to intensive study and play
cole. x
Written by: Rev
I didnt mean to imply that these ideas had been mastered or even really grappled with by many people.. I'm just saying the community, imo, hit a standstill during this great renaissance.. Techies running around like kids, babbling incoherently at the wonder that had caught a glimpse of.. it was like a grand reset button was pressed on the community.. those with the diehard madness (;)) pressed forward.. the rest of the community just stood and watched.. and we tried to learn poi all over again.. and still are.. its like a paradigm shift.. think of it like seeing the world before newton. during newton, and after einstein.. its like living in a whoel new world you know..
i believe this kind of thing occurs in cycles but for different people each time...
that's what poi felt like for me when tangles and isolations were unleashed upon the poi world a few years back.
but i think many people have felt like that before, there are people that feel like this now and i believe (at least i hope), that many people will feel like that in years to come.
the 'huge turning point' feeling disappeared after a while for me and i'm not sure it ever comes back for any individual - my attitude to poi is very different now to what it was back then.
as such, i doubt i will ever put the sort of effort into understanding and playing with 'new' areas of poi technique that i and so many others have in the past.
and it is this i think that brings with it the feeling rev describes above
i do think that the advent of the widenening of the understanding of antispin, inside planes and multi-plane spinning by certain people and through the community as a whole have definitely made me feel pangs of what i felt back then - its just a lot easier to sit back learn by osmosis as opposed to intensive study and play
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
yo,
peaks and troughs innit?
I agree with rob in that the new stuff out there is maybe a lot less accessable, takes more effort to understand never mind do, atomics being the case in point. once you make the effort, then huge vista open up to be explored, but is that the jedi path? not by nyc's description (jogging every morning)
we can see that discussion of new stuff has dropped off in the last 6 months, mats 'fundementaly new' thread shows this, but i recon stuff is just germinating, and like any feild of exploration as the charted terroity becomes bigger than the new stuff gets harder to find, so i think this slowing down of discovery is quite natural.
peaks and troughs innit?
T
yo,
peaks and troughs innit?
I agree with rob in that the new stuff out there is maybe a lot less accessable, takes more effort to understand never mind do, atomics being the case in point. once you make the effort, then huge vista open up to be explored, but is that the jedi path? not by nyc's description (jogging every morning)
we can see that discussion of new stuff has dropped off in the last 6 months, mats 'fundementaly new' thread shows this, but i recon stuff is just germinating, and like any feild of exploration as the charted terroity becomes bigger than the new stuff gets harder to find, so i think this slowing down of discovery is quite natural.
peaks and troughs innit?
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
This dynamic is really interesting. As a relative newbie (I've been spinning now for almost a year -- at what point does one stop being a 'newbie'?) none of these things are "new areas of poi technique" so much as just simply "poi technique." BTB work was "new" a few years ago, as was isolations and tangles...and now antispin and multi-plane spinning are apparently the new realms of exploration, but for someone like me who's just coming into it now -- all of it is new, and so none of it is. Picking up poi in the first place was the paradigm shift and all this stuff is just what's possible to learn. It'll be cool to see where spinners who start at this point -- who take isolations, antispin, etc. for granted -- take it.
Written by: colemanWritten by: Rev
I didnt mean to imply that these ideas had been mastered or even really grappled with by many people.. I'm just saying the community, imo, hit a standstill during this great renaissance.. Techies running around like kids, babbling incoherently at the wonder that had caught a glimpse of.. it was like a grand reset button was pressed on the community.. those with the diehard madness (;)) pressed forward.. the rest of the community just stood and watched.. and we tried to learn poi all over again.. and still are.. its like a paradigm shift.. think of it like seeing the world before newton. during newton, and after einstein.. its like living in a whoel new world you know..
i believe this kind of thing occurs in cycles but for different people each time...
that's what poi felt like for me when tangles and isolations were unleashed upon the poi world a few years back.
but i think many people have felt like that before, there are people that feel like this now and i believe (at least i hope), that many people will feel like that in years to come.
the 'huge turning point' feeling disappeared after a while for me and i'm not sure it ever comes back for any individual - my attitude to poi is very different now to what it was back then.
as such, i doubt i will ever put the sort of effort into understanding and playing with 'new' areas of poi technique that i and so many others have in the past.
and it is this i think that brings with it the feeling rev describes above
i do think that the advent of the widenening of the understanding of antispin, inside planes and multi-plane spinning by certain people and through the community as a whole have definitely made me feel pangs of what i felt back then - its just a lot easier to sit back learn by osmosis as opposed to intensive study and play
cole. x
This dynamic is really interesting. As a relative newbie (I've been spinning now for almost a year -- at what point does one stop being a 'newbie'?) none of these things are "new areas of poi technique" so much as just simply "poi technique." BTB work was "new" a few years ago, as was isolations and tangles...and now antispin and multi-plane spinning are apparently the new realms of exploration, but for someone like me who's just coming into it now -- all of it is new, and so none of it is. Picking up poi in the first place was the paradigm shift and all this stuff is just what's possible to learn. It'll be cool to see where spinners who start at this point -- who take isolations, antispin, etc. for granted -- take it.
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
SILVER Member
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
old hand
768 posts
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Posted:
Beautiful AND technical -- yes yes!! That's where it's at -- in this, and the other artforms I've practiced in the past, I never really understood the either/or split when it comes to beauty/expression versus technique (it seems to happen in any artform). It's a nice affirmation to hear someone else say it.
And the "learn to dance/feel the poi" thing -- it's definitely in the air at the moment...perhaps the spinning world has reached some kind of tipping point with these ideas?
...and not enough people drill enough, imo.
EDITED_BY: blueboy (1126548528)
Written by: bluecat
people seem to want to be beautiful and technical(finally! after years of arguing with pele the majorit seem to be on my side
~snip~
but a lot HAS been made of the 'learn to dance' and 'feel the poi' movement. and also the 'drill drill drill' idea too...
Beautiful AND technical -- yes yes!! That's where it's at -- in this, and the other artforms I've practiced in the past, I never really understood the either/or split when it comes to beauty/expression versus technique (it seems to happen in any artform). It's a nice affirmation to hear someone else say it.
And the "learn to dance/feel the poi" thing -- it's definitely in the air at the moment...perhaps the spinning world has reached some kind of tipping point with these ideas?
...and not enough people drill enough, imo.
EDITED_BY: blueboy (1126548528)
taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I never said there were no inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer.
I never implied that there were no inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer.
I do not believe that there were not inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer.
Thank you Cole for at least pointing me to what the heck Rob was talking about.
Facts in my brain:
1) Uberpoi did not inspire me. It intimidated me by showing me just how much work I'd have to do to be at a level I'd find satisfying.
2) I am having trouble devoting the time that, in my opinion, would give me satisfaction.
3) I am looking for areas that would satisfy me with minimal time, that is maximize my satisfaction per time involved.
4) There are people who, in my opinion, are more devoted to poi than I am. I admire those people for their dedication to poi spinning. I do not want to be those people.
5) I never ever ever suggested that there was a lack of inspiring ideas at uberpoi. I only stated that I was not personally inspired. Since, clearly, there were the most inspirational spinners in the planet at Uberpoi, this MUST be my own personal problem and only I am to blame. I started this thread to address my own personaly problem.
Either:
1) It is your personal responsibility to inspire me. In which case you failed and you should be ashamed.
Or:
2) It's my own damn problem and you can't possibly feel attacked for my own personal lack of inspiration.
I personally believe #2. It seems that you're somewhat offended that I wasn't inspired by Uberpoi... and yet out of the other side of your mouth, you keep telling me how much you hate being put on a pedistal. You can't have both.
Which I feel leads to your other frustration as well. You spend your entire professional life practicing so people will look at you, but then when the curtain goes down, if people continue to look, you get frustrated when people look up to you.
If you really want to be left alone, the LAST thing you'd ever want to do would be to constantly perform and organize Uberpoi.
So if I look up to you and follow you around, you want to cry... but if I don't follow you around and take your workshops you whine about that? You gotta pick one.
Either you're Uberpoi Jedi Leader and Te Pooka Superstar Bluecat or you're shy, modest Rob. But don't yell at us when we get the two confused because you definitely work hard enough at both.
I don't know how my own quest for inspiration rammed into people's egos but I do thank those who actually threw some ideas out without getting personally offended by my own slackness.
Written by: coleman
i think specifically, rob would have liked a reply to this observation:Written by: bluecat
and yet i feel there were several 'new' techniques being bandied about over the summer that are of equal difficulty, and(imo) and beauty to 4bt ttn and airwraps(just using your example so no jumping from anyone)
like
hybrid spinning
antispin
gumbys
negative space
atomics(finally reached europe nearly alive)
now i'm not saying all of these suit all people.
but a lot HAS been made of the 'learn to dance' and 'feel the poi' movement. and also the 'drill drill drill' idea too, but they were by no means the only thing people were saying/showing to you while here. maybe you just prefered to hoop(an exceptionally fine thing ), but i don't feel you can say there has been a lack of inspring ideas.perhaps none of them inspired YOU but they are definitely around.
i.e. there are lots of 'new' tech areas in poi.
nyc said there were no inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer and le chat-bleu listed a good few.
I never said there were no inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer.
I never implied that there were no inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer.
I do not believe that there were not inspiring new areas in poi spinning this summer.
Thank you Cole for at least pointing me to what the heck Rob was talking about.
Facts in my brain:
1) Uberpoi did not inspire me. It intimidated me by showing me just how much work I'd have to do to be at a level I'd find satisfying.
2) I am having trouble devoting the time that, in my opinion, would give me satisfaction.
3) I am looking for areas that would satisfy me with minimal time, that is maximize my satisfaction per time involved.
4) There are people who, in my opinion, are more devoted to poi than I am. I admire those people for their dedication to poi spinning. I do not want to be those people.
5) I never ever ever suggested that there was a lack of inspiring ideas at uberpoi. I only stated that I was not personally inspired. Since, clearly, there were the most inspirational spinners in the planet at Uberpoi, this MUST be my own personal problem and only I am to blame. I started this thread to address my own personaly problem.
Written by:
maybe you just prefered to hoop(an exceptionally fine thing ), but i don't feel you can say there has been a lack of inspring ideas.perhaps none of them inspired YOU but they are definitely around.
Either:
1) It is your personal responsibility to inspire me. In which case you failed and you should be ashamed.
Or:
2) It's my own damn problem and you can't possibly feel attacked for my own personal lack of inspiration.
I personally believe #2. It seems that you're somewhat offended that I wasn't inspired by Uberpoi... and yet out of the other side of your mouth, you keep telling me how much you hate being put on a pedistal. You can't have both.
Which I feel leads to your other frustration as well. You spend your entire professional life practicing so people will look at you, but then when the curtain goes down, if people continue to look, you get frustrated when people look up to you.
If you really want to be left alone, the LAST thing you'd ever want to do would be to constantly perform and organize Uberpoi.
Written by:
i know what is meant by 'jedi', and disagree with the concept thoroughly, as i know i am regarded as such and dislike it intensely. it puts an enormous amount of pressure on me to spin well in front of people, and sometimes makes me want to go off to a corner and cry.
So if I look up to you and follow you around, you want to cry... but if I don't follow you around and take your workshops you whine about that? You gotta pick one.
Either you're Uberpoi Jedi Leader and Te Pooka Superstar Bluecat or you're shy, modest Rob. But don't yell at us when we get the two confused because you definitely work hard enough at both.
I don't know how my own quest for inspiration rammed into people's egos but I do thank those who actually threw some ideas out without getting personally offended by my own slackness.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
sometimes I wish I had waited a while longer... merely from the fac tthat I don't want to push too far in one field that something like antispin ever come along and make it so *bleep* hard to teach myself of what I've rpacticed all this time -not- to do.. same with tangles.. same with wraps.. and how many people learned to spin an opposite direction atom only to be told 'no thats not it..butterfly is like this.....' HA...
Written by: coleman
i do think that the advent of the widenening of the understanding of antispin, inside planes and multi-plane spinning by certain people and through the community as a whole have definitely made me feel pangs of what i felt back then - its just a lot easier to sit back learn by osmosis as opposed to intensive study and play
cole. x
sometimes I wish I had waited a while longer... merely from the fac tthat I don't want to push too far in one field that something like antispin ever come along and make it so *bleep* hard to teach myself of what I've rpacticed all this time -not- to do.. same with tangles.. same with wraps.. and how many people learned to spin an opposite direction atom only to be told 'no thats not it..butterfly is like this.....' HA...
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
NYC,
Im getting into this thread rather late and there are a lot of posts which I dont feel like reading right now. However, I feel I can offer some insight regarding your first post,so this is in response to that. Forgive me if any or all of these things have been said already.
First off, let me say that I cant believe you said all that. Even before I met you in person I felt your path was rather obvious. You always posted more in the social forums than the tech forums. You took a bunch of trips to Europe to meet the folks you spent so much time bonding with online. You met a wonderful girl there who youll soon be married to (or did you get married already??). Its apparent that you are more into the people and community surrounding the art, than the art itself. Now, surely youve learned quite a bit along the way but as you admit, its not your main focus and therefore your skills havent progressed as quickly as they possibly could have.
Inspiration? I think you arent finding inspiration because youre looking in the wrong places. [censored], if you went to uberpoi and didnt get inspired that should prove it. I think what you need to start looking at are the people whom YOU inspire. Perhaps you dont have hundreds of nerdy spinners oggling at your fancy moves begging you to share your knowlege but I can guarantee that you inspire many on a different level. Youve traveled all over the world hanging out with some of the best spinners, youre an ambassidor between the fire and glow communities, youve developed a unique spinning style which Ive never seen anyone but you pull off, you dont try to impress anyone yet do it anyway... In these ways and more youve inspired me and Im sure others feel the same. Look at all the people who, over the years, have welcomed you into their homes based solely on your online persona. Look at all the people (me included) who have gone to great lengths to meet you. You must be doing something right weather your timing is perfect or not.
In looking for your path, I think you may actually be missing the one youre truly on. While you say youre not trying to be jedi, youre still looking at it from that point of view. I think youll progress and stay inspired if you take a step back and look at what youve done in the community besides spinning.
NYC,
Im getting into this thread rather late and there are a lot of posts which I dont feel like reading right now. However, I feel I can offer some insight regarding your first post,so this is in response to that. Forgive me if any or all of these things have been said already.
First off, let me say that I cant believe you said all that. Even before I met you in person I felt your path was rather obvious. You always posted more in the social forums than the tech forums. You took a bunch of trips to Europe to meet the folks you spent so much time bonding with online. You met a wonderful girl there who youll soon be married to (or did you get married already??). Its apparent that you are more into the people and community surrounding the art, than the art itself. Now, surely youve learned quite a bit along the way but as you admit, its not your main focus and therefore your skills havent progressed as quickly as they possibly could have.
Inspiration? I think you arent finding inspiration because youre looking in the wrong places. [censored], if you went to uberpoi and didnt get inspired that should prove it. I think what you need to start looking at are the people whom YOU inspire. Perhaps you dont have hundreds of nerdy spinners oggling at your fancy moves begging you to share your knowlege but I can guarantee that you inspire many on a different level. Youve traveled all over the world hanging out with some of the best spinners, youre an ambassidor between the fire and glow communities, youve developed a unique spinning style which Ive never seen anyone but you pull off, you dont try to impress anyone yet do it anyway... In these ways and more youve inspired me and Im sure others feel the same. Look at all the people who, over the years, have welcomed you into their homes based solely on your online persona. Look at all the people (me included) who have gone to great lengths to meet you. You must be doing something right weather your timing is perfect or not.
In looking for your path, I think you may actually be missing the one youre truly on. While you say youre not trying to be jedi, youre still looking at it from that point of view. I think youll progress and stay inspired if you take a step back and look at what youve done in the community besides spinning.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
PS - If you still need inspiration and youre going to PDF this fall, Ill be sure to try and teach you some shite that can inspire you for a while. Did you ever get those flowers I taught you down?
PS - If you still need inspiration and youre going to PDF this fall, Ill be sure to try and teach you some shite that can inspire you for a while. Did you ever get those flowers I taught you down?
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
i think the point the "jedi" keep making is that there is no point. this is a devil's advocate tool, to make us see the other side of the coin.
but also, there is a point. life is a path, and the destination is the illusion you give yourself to make the path discernable.
i said it in my longest post ever. throughout my journey playing has been the goal. and through play i have acquired technical skills. work=play. the closer you can get to this ideal, the more effective your time spent will be. and guess what? the soccer players are out there because they found a place where the work is play. or else you burn out.
enlightenment? well, whatever it is, the masters have told us over and over that FOCUS is closer to it than ABTRUSITY.
the taoist retort is that even focusing on abtrusity will bring you to it.
either way it is all illusions. so is enlightenment. but choosing an illusion of enlightenment as a goal is closer to enlightenment than not.
As someone who has been declared by many as "the best" or a "master" i can tell you that spinning for me is exactly the same today as it was when i first started. it is still boring sometimes, i am still insecure about it, it is a lot of pressure to be called good and have to live up to it, (that pressure and the ability to cope is what characterises competition and its discourse), i still have a long way to go with it, and i still love it cause it's fun. but it is always a journey, it is always work, it will always teach you more about yourself. it is just another part of life.
so my advice is; don't look at what you see and say that you are not on that path. beause you are- you are human. if poi doesn't exemplify that journey for you, something will. and something may already. or maybe you don't see that poi is that for you, or maybe you haven't seen the thing that will make it click for you. but i say this, and others have said it above: PLAY!!!!
and i think the word discipline must be brought up. there is no ideal spinning to obtain which is more powerful than the focus of discipline. with no peak, there is only "how finley tuned the engine is," IOW how disciplined are you?
and your point is, "i don't want to be disciplined"
so my retort is, "what better discipline than play?"
and the secret hidden in there is, "play is the ultimate discipline fuel"
whew that's enough for now...
i think the point the "jedi" keep making is that there is no point. this is a devil's advocate tool, to make us see the other side of the coin.
but also, there is a point. life is a path, and the destination is the illusion you give yourself to make the path discernable.
i said it in my longest post ever. throughout my journey playing has been the goal. and through play i have acquired technical skills. work=play. the closer you can get to this ideal, the more effective your time spent will be. and guess what? the soccer players are out there because they found a place where the work is play. or else you burn out.
enlightenment? well, whatever it is, the masters have told us over and over that FOCUS is closer to it than ABTRUSITY.
the taoist retort is that even focusing on abtrusity will bring you to it.
either way it is all illusions. so is enlightenment. but choosing an illusion of enlightenment as a goal is closer to enlightenment than not.
As someone who has been declared by many as "the best" or a "master" i can tell you that spinning for me is exactly the same today as it was when i first started. it is still boring sometimes, i am still insecure about it, it is a lot of pressure to be called good and have to live up to it, (that pressure and the ability to cope is what characterises competition and its discourse), i still have a long way to go with it, and i still love it cause it's fun. but it is always a journey, it is always work, it will always teach you more about yourself. it is just another part of life.
so my advice is; don't look at what you see and say that you are not on that path. beause you are- you are human. if poi doesn't exemplify that journey for you, something will. and something may already. or maybe you don't see that poi is that for you, or maybe you haven't seen the thing that will make it click for you. but i say this, and others have said it above: PLAY!!!!
and i think the word discipline must be brought up. there is no ideal spinning to obtain which is more powerful than the focus of discipline. with no peak, there is only "how finley tuned the engine is," IOW how disciplined are you?
and your point is, "i don't want to be disciplined"
so my retort is, "what better discipline than play?"
and the secret hidden in there is, "play is the ultimate discipline fuel"
whew that's enough for now...
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
Post deleted because it was wrong to make a very personal point in a public place.
For the record, I was being rude and stroppy.
EDITED_BY: fluffy napalm fairy (1126594933)
Post deleted because it was wrong to make a very personal point in a public place.
For the record, I was being rude and stroppy.
EDITED_BY: fluffy napalm fairy (1126594933)
Geologists do it in the dirt................ 
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
ICoN, you're a F*ckin genious. I could kiss you but from what I hear there's a line.
I kinda wish you'd have said it without quite kissing my butt so much but I'll take what I can get.
But you're right. I need to look at why I do this and it's because of the culture and education. The technical tricks... and even musicality... is not what I get out of it. So I guess that's what became apparent to me this summer and made me lose my way.
So 'putting more effort into the areas of poi that I enjoy' is definitely the way forward. Not the move sets, but the people. Not the technique, but the sharing of knowledge.
I've never discovered anything new in poi and I never will.
I'm a support network and a translator ("there was this one guy in London who was...")
And that's why I was lost in Edinburgh. And that's why I didn't pick up my poi this summer. Because that's not my place.
And Fluffy, please... I've hugged 95% of the people who've posted. The entire first page of this thread was brilliant and unbelievably helpful. I sent kisses and hugs and thanks in just about every post I posted. I went back and read them. I absolutely clarified those who thought I was unhappy or using a different definition of Jedi. Aside from that I was all kisses and compliments. And I meant every one. I am not an 'angry american' nor am I 'arguing against people'. You and Rob can be irritated and upset if you like, I'm certainly used to it.
Written by: ICoN
NYC,
Im getting into this thread rather late and there are a lot of posts which I dont feel like reading right now. However, I feel I can offer some insight regarding your first post,so this is in response to that. Forgive me if any or all of these things have been said already.
First off, let me say that I cant believe you said all that. Even before I met you in person I felt your path was rather obvious. You always posted more in the social forums than the tech forums. You took a bunch of trips to Europe to meet the folks you spent so much time bonding with online. You met a wonderful girl there who youll soon be married to (or did you get married already??). Its apparent that you are more into the people and community surrounding the art, than the art itself. Now, surely youve learned quite a bit along the way but as you admit, its not your main focus and therefore your skills havent progressed as quickly as they possibly could have.
Inspiration? I think you arent finding inspiration because youre looking in the wrong places., if you went to uberpoi and didnt get inspired that should prove it. I think what you need to start looking at are the people whom YOU inspire. Perhaps you dont have hundreds of nerdy spinners oggling at your fancy moves begging you to share your knowlege but I can guarantee that you inspire many on a different level. Youve traveled all over the world hanging out with some of the best spinners, youre an ambassidor between the fire and glow communities, youve developed a unique spinning style which Ive never seen anyone but you pull off, you dont try to impress anyone yet do it anyway... In these ways and more youve inspired me and Im sure others feel the same. Look at all the people who, over the years, have welcomed you into their homes based solely on your online persona. Look at all the people (me included) who have gone to great lengths to meet you. You must be doing something right weather your timing is perfect or not.
In looking for your path, I think you may actually be missing the one youre truly on. While you say youre not trying to be jedi, youre still looking at it from that point of view. I think youll progress and stay inspired if you take a step back and look at what youve done in the community besides spinning.
ICoN, you're a F*ckin genious. I could kiss you but from what I hear there's a line.
I kinda wish you'd have said it without quite kissing my butt so much but I'll take what I can get.
But you're right. I need to look at why I do this and it's because of the culture and education. The technical tricks... and even musicality... is not what I get out of it. So I guess that's what became apparent to me this summer and made me lose my way.
So 'putting more effort into the areas of poi that I enjoy' is definitely the way forward. Not the move sets, but the people. Not the technique, but the sharing of knowledge.
I've never discovered anything new in poi and I never will.
I'm a support network and a translator ("there was this one guy in London who was...")
And that's why I was lost in Edinburgh. And that's why I didn't pick up my poi this summer. Because that's not my place.
And Fluffy, please... I've hugged 95% of the people who've posted. The entire first page of this thread was brilliant and unbelievably helpful. I sent kisses and hugs and thanks in just about every post I posted. I went back and read them. I absolutely clarified those who thought I was unhappy or using a different definition of Jedi. Aside from that I was all kisses and compliments. And I meant every one. I am not an 'angry american' nor am I 'arguing against people'. You and Rob can be irritated and upset if you like, I'm certainly used to it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
veteran
1,247 posts
Location: lost, Canada
Posted:
wow fluffy, your response surprised me too!
In general I have to say it sounded to me like NYC has been pretty receptive to what we all have offered, just trying to sort through it and find what actually applies to him and his needs . I read that last email you quoted more as him owning that it is his problem,no one elses, his personal lack of inspiration- not anything that happenned or did not at Uberpoi etc. Him trying to say he was actually NOT critical of anyone elses approach! Just struggling to sort out one his own... That struck me as recognizing individual responsiblity, trying to look deeply at the source of his dissatsifaction and change it-- not moaning... Odd to see you interpretted it so differently.
I have to agree with him also on the general observation that the real teachers and initiators in this field are often reluctant to acknowledge their skills and interests as significantly evolved from the rest of us... It is curious behaviour, different than in many other disciplines. I can think of lots of reasons why this might be the case, but for now it is interesting to just note. I personally find it kind of endearing, actually.
However, NYC I think you are is pretty harsh about requiring these teachers in general , and R. specifically , to be courageously standing out their on their pedastals at all times- I think some of the comments from that group were just acknowledging their own human insecurities, and reminding us that we all feel this way time to time rather than an attempt to shirk their status or something. In a way, trying to relate to you, and be inclusive. They take a lot of care to share their experience, and inspire the community. We should respect that dedication ( and love them dearly!) There is no contradiction in being a teacher and a performer, and still being occasionally finding oneself uncomfortable with the fan fare generated from that!
Yet, if NYC did ignore some of the suggestions, why would that be offensive? Surely he can focus on the ones that interest him? After all, it is not constructive to spend time on things that do not apply to your situation as you perceive it. I detected no pretence in NYC's question, or in his responses to our responses...
Just some thoughts, anyways,
hugs to you all, and I hope the fluffy fairy cheers up!
*smiles and love be once again throughout this thread*
~A
wow fluffy, your response surprised me too!
In general I have to say it sounded to me like NYC has been pretty receptive to what we all have offered, just trying to sort through it and find what actually applies to him and his needs . I read that last email you quoted more as him owning that it is his problem,no one elses, his personal lack of inspiration- not anything that happenned or did not at Uberpoi etc. Him trying to say he was actually NOT critical of anyone elses approach! Just struggling to sort out one his own... That struck me as recognizing individual responsiblity, trying to look deeply at the source of his dissatsifaction and change it-- not moaning... Odd to see you interpretted it so differently.
I have to agree with him also on the general observation that the real teachers and initiators in this field are often reluctant to acknowledge their skills and interests as significantly evolved from the rest of us... It is curious behaviour, different than in many other disciplines. I can think of lots of reasons why this might be the case, but for now it is interesting to just note. I personally find it kind of endearing, actually.
However, NYC I think you are is pretty harsh about requiring these teachers in general , and R. specifically , to be courageously standing out their on their pedastals at all times- I think some of the comments from that group were just acknowledging their own human insecurities, and reminding us that we all feel this way time to time rather than an attempt to shirk their status or something. In a way, trying to relate to you, and be inclusive. They take a lot of care to share their experience, and inspire the community. We should respect that dedication ( and love them dearly!) There is no contradiction in being a teacher and a performer, and still being occasionally finding oneself uncomfortable with the fan fare generated from that!
Yet, if NYC did ignore some of the suggestions, why would that be offensive? Surely he can focus on the ones that interest him? After all, it is not constructive to spend time on things that do not apply to your situation as you perceive it. I detected no pretence in NYC's question, or in his responses to our responses...
Just some thoughts, anyways,
hugs to you all, and I hope the fluffy fairy cheers up!
*smiles and love be once again throughout this thread*
~A
"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Heh. Trust me man... I wasnt trying to kiss your butt. Im just horrible at getting thoughts down into text correctly so I tend to beat around the points. It seems you got exactly what I meant though and Im glad. I hope you continue to play with your poi though, even if it is from a different perspective because we definately need SOMEONE to do flaming gumbys around here
Heh. Trust me man... I wasnt trying to kiss your butt. Im just horrible at getting thoughts down into text correctly so I tend to beat around the points. It seems you got exactly what I meant though and Im glad. I hope you continue to play with your poi though, even if it is from a different perspective because we definately need SOMEONE to do flaming gumbys around here
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
3,638 posts
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Posted:
I would write this in PM's but I have in the past been asked not to (when it is in relation to public discussions)
I'm not going to turn this into a personal problem. You have hugged 95% of the people, including me, and that is why I am so baffled.
I will state, however, VERY clearly, that I am the one who is upset and irritated and that I have no idea what Bluecat thinks and feels, and he cannot be lumped in with my issues. I don't think that's very fair.
I would write this in PM's but I have in the past been asked not to (when it is in relation to public discussions)
I'm not going to turn this into a personal problem. You have hugged 95% of the people, including me, and that is why I am so baffled.
I will state, however, VERY clearly, that I am the one who is upset and irritated and that I have no idea what Bluecat thinks and feels, and he cannot be lumped in with my issues. I don't think that's very fair.
Geologists do it in the dirt................
DIAMOND Member
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
The Ministry of Manipulation
2,523 posts
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Mooo.
Icon, a brilliant post, and brilliant thoughts.
In Drew summary:
"My man NYC is a pillar of the poi community, thats what he does well, build it, support it, welcome to it, connect it, enjoy it and make it more enjoyable for others. The world needs connectors."
CRUSH IT!!!
Mostly the "Jedi" are not on the wrong path,
but they are exploring some pretty big cul-de-sac's along the way
Mooo.
Icon, a brilliant post, and brilliant thoughts.
In Drew summary:
"My man NYC is a pillar of the poi community, thats what he does well, build it, support it, welcome to it, connect it, enjoy it and make it more enjoyable for others. The world needs connectors."
CRUSH IT!!!
Mostly the "Jedi" are not on the wrong path,
but they are exploring some pretty big cul-de-sac's along the way
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
cause you totally, totally missed my point again.
and i'm not going to bother making it again.
but let it be said for the record that i love and adore performing and it is only occasionally i wish the world would go away. do you think i am stupid? if i was what you wrote in that post i would go and work for an insurance company, and never pick poi up again.
i bear you no illwill for not getting inspired, cause that would be stupid too, i was just asking for observations and got angry cause you totally ignored the request, then acted like i was stupid, all the while ignoring the request, then got irritated cause i couldn't see your POV when you were discussing an entire different part of the thread. i was just asking for a little of the respect and understanding you ask of everybody else.
anyway.
icon:
andrea
for another record: i think this is a great and actually quite insppiring thread, and i don't quite know how some parts of it managed to get me so riled up. some of the most insightful things i've ever read on HOP have come on here in the last couple of weeks, so for starting and nourishing it.
and now i'm going to head out of this thread once and for all, cause i have 48 hours to get 72 hours work done, and then go to london and bristol, by which time any reply i could consider will be out of date so any replies please by PM but don't hold out for an early reply cause there aren't any computers in brizzle..
cause you totally, totally missed my point again.
and i'm not going to bother making it again.
but let it be said for the record that i love and adore performing and it is only occasionally i wish the world would go away. do you think i am stupid? if i was what you wrote in that post i would go and work for an insurance company, and never pick poi up again.
i bear you no illwill for not getting inspired, cause that would be stupid too, i was just asking for observations and got angry cause you totally ignored the request, then acted like i was stupid, all the while ignoring the request, then got irritated cause i couldn't see your POV when you were discussing an entire different part of the thread. i was just asking for a little of the respect and understanding you ask of everybody else.
anyway.
icon:
andrea
for another record: i think this is a great and actually quite insppiring thread, and i don't quite know how some parts of it managed to get me so riled up. some of the most insightful things i've ever read on HOP have come on here in the last couple of weeks, so
for starting and nourishing it. and now i'm going to head out of this thread once and for all, cause i have 48 hours to get 72 hours work done, and then go to london and bristol, by which time any reply i could consider will be out of date
so any replies please by PM but don't hold out for an early reply cause there aren't any computers in brizzle.. Holistic Spinner (I hope)
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