Forums > Social Chat > women and sex

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
IMO, sex and love are two seperate entities that go very well together (its so hard to find things you enjoy with the one you love... j/k). This is why I don't get jealous, and why I lead a polyamorous lifestyle. (but thats just me though)

Waiting for marriage for sex was a concept invented when the world was plagued by syphillis and other STDs and the religious communities decided that this was the best way to prevent the spread of disease.

If thinking of how to pleasure your girl/boy makes you feel awkward or self-conscious, perhaps that's your own personal issue you've got to work on before you get married.

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
read all the posts fireflow, my post was a response to people saying they are worried about how to pleasure, and they need to know if the girl is being pleasured or not...

Not having sex before marriage is not a concept that was developed when STD's were being passed on, in fact its been a concept in many religions dating back centuries, and is in fact even mentioned in the bible...marriage is consumated by sex in many religions as well, nothing to do with STD's...

[ 26 April 2002, 04:11: Message edited by: Organized Kaos ]

Every morning I wake up and hit the ground yawning...

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
If you're interested in my sex before marriage rant then I posted something in this thread. Do a search for 'freeform' to find the post. It's a social control mechanism for religions and societies. It should be a personal choice for an individual uninfluenced by religion or society.

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
ROFL and blushing and smiling
cheers lads

This is such a funny thread.

And my name cropping up many time in a thread with this title. that makes me laugh, they way I'm doing at the moment I might as well be a monk. I'm going to go sign up today as a monk diciple in bender the offenders monestary for lost poi swingers.

Dom you've got a point, I had a change of clothes in my bag, but Id been cycling and it was hot and comfortable, I might even wear them shorts at SPIP. Cycling is good, not as good as hugs but

ok. so 80% of communication is nonverbal. One of my favoite games is the one that happens before the first kiss, it can take months, but you know it, its a lot of fun. you know cos you all play to some degree (well maybe not dom), and you know if its right time to kiss, that whole side of it is nonverbal, and its the uncertainly that makes it both fun and pain.
"Are you going to f**king kiss me or what!" where's the fun in that.

smokey, a girl GIRL! watching me where what ooh. I never know. I just want to play with my ball. thats another one slips through the net. Oh well...

Smokey: you remind me, I got bought a book by my ex (somewhere in oz now) called i think multiple orgasms for men, I'll try to find it for you. Oops forgot about the polyamorous bit on tuesday, So i guess she wasn't mrs smokey then. ooops.

My two eurocents
staff is fundamentally a masculine object as poi is feminine. but women can look amazing (and seductive) with staff and men can poi with beauty. But they usually either have to be in touch with their feminine side, or dance in the style of a rock. There is one guy who can if he decides to turn me on with a staff, its bloody funny. and i'd chalenge any of you to resist.

"Style" im happy now skips off gayly whistling and happy happy(Any more or this and my head is going to swell up so much that my hat wont fit.)

Fresh bread and coffee
glass
ooh bit of a long one, interesting thread

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
Nah, she's coming to mine on saturday, you should know, you asked me to invite her

No, she wasn't mrs smokey, she's a close friend, lover, connection. And a lovely creature at that.

I agree very much about the nonverbal thing..

Watch that head swelling, you should see a dermatologist or something

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
Glass, you're going to be A Batchelor for life. Accept it! However it means when you're 40 you'll probably have more sex than your married friends.

And having a "style" doesn't becessarily mean its a good style. Just trying to keep us all in our hats here.

I shouldn't be here, I should be there. via the bar...

[ 26 April 2002, 06:01: Message edited by: Dom ]

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
However, OK, religion as a sexual act more often than not did NOT take place between a married couple at all. If you read the History of Sex: Sex and the Spirit you will see that what FF is saying about it being used as a means stopping the spread of illness is very true. In many ancient cultures premarital sex for men was EXPECTED, to make certain they were not impotent, yet this experience was never with their intended bride, but instead with a harlot. If you would like more information about sex in the bible, and how horrible and *not-saved-for-marriage* it was, please read The Harlot By The Side Of The Road. A fascinating book that is full of stories removed from the bible by the decree of King James (hence the King James Version). Bath houses were common in ancient Greece and Egypt where Polyamory and pre-marital sex occurred often, and was encouraged. In ancient Asian cultures many wives and mistresses (women who were not married but were having sex with a man of power) were encouraged as a symbol of esteem. In India and other Arabic cultures it was an honor to be in a Hareem. Again, the Sultan did not have to be married for this. In ancient Gael cultures giving ones virginity to the local shaman or priest was a great honor and anyone would want to marry you after. The same thing occurred in many of the tribes in South America as well. The idea of pre-marital purity was not so popularized until the Christian era exploded.

Sex in and of itself is not a sacred bond. Having sex does not mean forever or that you are blessed by god, nor will it garuntee love. That is a romantic fallacy. It is not the strongest bond a person can share with one another. Love is, and one can love strongly and passionately with or without sex. Sex is an physical expression of love, just as holding hands and staring into one anothers eyes. I feel more connected to my man after a good night of talking and cuddling and just being than I do after getting down and dirty on most occassions. If it were such a sacred and loving bond, there would not be so many one night stands occurring. Our most animalistic tendencies are to propogate, and as alpha males you are supposed to have many children with many woman (going back to "Ugh" in caveman days). We are animals, that is the animal way, continuing on the lineage. It is through socially imposed moralistic beliefs that we *choose* to wait, *choose* to be monogomous, etc. But it is a choice we make, either sub-conciously or conciously, and hopefully the choice we make is the one that is right for us.

Also a great reference on this topic is the History Channel series The History Of Sex. It was about 10 hours long, each two hours covered the history of different ancient cultures. I have watched it twice and am always learning from it.
You might also want to read the Kama Sutra. A **FANTASTIC** book on philosophy, relationships, love and sex.

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 25th Apr 2002
Very eliquant point about sex and love being "two seperate entities that go very well together" Fireyflow... I never thought of that quite in that way but agree wholeheartedly. I understand and endorse both "loveless sex" and "sexless love" but really prefer the ice cream with the chocolate syrup...

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
As you can guess, I agree strongly with Pele on this one. One thing I've learned though is that many people can be offended by the implication that their choice of monogamy is wrong.

I have read quite a lot about how different cultures view sexuality. I've also travelled and seen several different cultures first hand, and how they view the 'proper' or 'accepted' idea of sexuality is.

One thing that I've learned from this is that ther IS no right or wrong. Sexuality, love, sensuality and the celebration of the connection you hold between you and another person is a very personal thing (just as spirituality is).

For a long time, the status quo of sexuality was manipulated by kings, lords, priests, witch-doctors. Might makes right after all, and this is IMO, 100% of the reason why women have become so subjegated and abused through history (and still are in most parts of the world!).

Now we no longer live under these kinds of oppresion and enforced conformity, so we can choose to live as we like.

The only things that are building conformity now is the media. With cheezy love songs that make me laugh.

I've had many people try to convince me that my love isn't pure because its not monogamous. Or that I can't be in love with someone unless I'm seeing them every day or week or month even.

NYC, I'm not going to tell you that having ice cream with chocolate syrup isn't a great great thing. I like both of them seperate and together though, and sometimes even a sundae with nuts and a strawberry on top!! If I'm very lucky.

Books I'm interested in are more about the practice, not the history.

Here's some good suggested reading if you're at all interested

[ 26 April 2002, 22:34: Message edited by: FieryFlow ]

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
very interesting rant Pele
did anybody say strawberry ? can this be replaced by raspberry ? hmmmmm raspberry ... (or was that a metaphore maybe ? )

I have an idea on the question, but would very much like to have your opinion :

why is it that if I say I like giving a man fellatio, I am going to be considered a slut and if a man says it, people go "aaaaw... he is so sensitive and receptive to women" ????

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
The other day I had an ice cream with 2 different flavour chocolate ice creams, chocolate syrup, nuts, a wafer and a 99 flake. wonderous! Unfortunately I'm not talking metaphorically.

Cassandra, I've never known there to be that association. Some people are just too prudish and have old attitudes that women don't do sexual acts.

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
Men who enjoy performing felatio on men are generally considered to be gay from what I know

Performing oral sex on someone else has usually been considered as a submissive act.

Its been outlawed by the church for centuries, as is any act of fornication that isn't for the purpose of conception.

Men in most macho, male dominated societies will not admit to performing or just won't perform oral sex on a girl. I know that in high school in canada most of the boys in the football team were damn proud that they've never tried to give a girl an orgasm. One of the major complaints/comparisons that I hear from american girls here is that the men in america don't do it for them.. Thats why they love british boys (and the cute accent).

I have to say that I can make the same comparison to north american girls. Its like its some sort of favour that I have to earn with years of devoted monogamy, flowers and chocolates before she'll do it *reluctantly for me* (and usually badly).

Here I have been shocked and surprised (pleasently!!) when a girl does it *without request* on the first date!!!!!! Like, less than 24 hours after we first met!!!! (not just british girls either.. other europeans too)

Also, you may find that telling a group of people that you love sucking cock carries a certain connotation that you want something in your mouth, especially if you've got a cigarette in there already

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
ROFL...
You know me Dave, so you know I was not insinuating anything of the like. I just don't think there is anything wrong with that and find it annoying that when people discuss sex, machism can be very strong...

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
Either you're telling them you've only got 48 hours to live, or it's the hat. Most probably the hat. Hmmmm, note to self, borrow the hat for attraction experiment.

When in the States I've been 'lucky' quite easily, one girl offering her body just because of my accent. However they were unimaginative in bed. In the UK one night stands are more fun. After all you know it doesn't really matter and it's all for fun. In Europe the girls are just generally better all round, present north american company excepted of course!

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
Cassandra, I know, it was a joke

Dom, huh? Are you talking about my 24 hours comment? I wasn't wearing a hat any of those times. Try confidence and compliments.. Flattery can get you everywhere.

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
::off to puke after those ugly comments made by Fiery Flow::

I liked you better when you were Smocky Bowl ... you sounded less of a manipulator

In my case for example, flattery is to be used very carefully and preferably in very low quantity cause i'm one hell of a paranoid chick so compliments are rather suspicious to me (you know, that universal plot against me and all )

never underestimate the opponent and never insult their intelligence , that is my advice

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
Compliments work in two ways, they make someone feel good, and they also let someone know how you feel about them.

When I tell you (Danae) that you're a sweet, kind and gentle girl, and the best hostess I've ever met, does it make you feel uncomfortable or insulted? (not that I'm trying to get into your pants)

Honesty is always the best policy. And insulting someone's intelligence has more to do with pretending to be something you're not, or telling someone something thats not true.

BTW, I just realized that the way I said it, there's a sense that this is the way it is all the time here. Its something I've had happen 3 times out of many 'intimate encounters'. But in comparison to the zero times in NA I think it says something, but its just from my own experience.

[ 27 April 2002, 02:42: Message edited by: FieryFlow ]

Posted: 26th Apr 2002
FF, yes... you're right ... I sometimes really think that the otehr party is having a laugh at me... I guess I often mistake compliments for lies ...I think it i the "paranoid" thing inside of me that makes it not always easy to accept a compliment for what it is : a simple smile...

that is probably due to my history...
you see, once upon a time (...) and then (...) raspberry (...) wicked little dwarf (...) "oh my god, this can't be a real one" (...) with a penguin (...) and then it broke my heart...

sad story, I know, but now you probably understand me better now, right ?

and also... which pants are you talking about : the tight orange denim, or the thai style grey one ?

I think I need to go now ... it's friday goddamnit

shine on
snuggle on
Cassandra

"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

Posted: 26th Apr 2002

quote:

---

that is probably due to my history...
you see, once upon a time (...) and then (...) raspberry (...) wicked little dwarf (...) "oh my god, this can't be a real one" (...) with a penguin (...) and then it broke my heart...

---

ROFLMAO!!!
*chokes on his tea*
sorry, I shouldn't laugh at your pain.. That wicked little dwarf had that rasberry coming though.

I mean, there is an element of deceipt in complimenting someone honestly.. You can say, 'you've got beautiful eyes', which is a compliment.. or you can say 'you've got beautiful eyes, but they're all bloodshot right now.' which is a compliment said by someone with no tact.

Posted: 27th Apr 2002
uhm i dunno but i find the whole concept of one night stands creepy and scary. if u talk one noghts do u mean comlete strangers?
for me liking (not necessarily love) and trust are just too important to 'risk' a complete stranger.

but then it might be going to a catholic private school.*shrug*

oh and on the subject of 'blowjobs'....not dirty! fun!! i think much of the reluctance of the females i know comes from bad experience though....some guys seem to not take the hygiene seriously....ugh
Morgy

Out to Wrong Rights and Depress the Opressed.

Posted: 27th Apr 2002
Cassandra has beautiful eyes. Oh sorry, was that not the topic?

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 27th May 2002
so uh pele.. the last two days...??

*scurries off to go pack for road trip....*

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Posted: 28th May 2002
Hello!!!

Ray I just saw this post and with 4 pages cant read it all...

I my experience with men I have to say the main problems has been selfishness... No nessecarily on purpose but in truth selfishness...

In my experience most men just dont realize that a womans mind goes anywhere at any time... So to give her the best night of her life u have to tap into the brain and have a feel round so to speak... In my experience I have found that mental sex leads to good real sex...
This is not an easy task and a lot of men simply um u know want to get to business... No patience... I have had great sex, I must say only SOMETIMES was it the resposibility of my partner when it happened...

I have found lovers and then found men who just want sex for fun... That wont happen that way!!! I dont know I guess it all a mind game and if u can get into her brain u can probably suss out how to give her endless nights of plearuse and contentment, if u are willing to put in the work and hard hours... Excuse the pun!!!!

Anyway until next time see u guy soon, love to all
DROME!!!!

JUGGLEwithyourmind!

Posted: 28th May 2002
Dromepixie

If a woman's mind is her most erotic organ (which is arguably true for men too) then its as much the woman's responsibility to communicate what she wants, and how she wants it, and not the man's responsibility to read her mind.

Also, there are many women who aren't looking to be understood or romanced. Women want different things, and therefore going back to my original statement, its your responsibility to let the guy know what you want.

If you don't know what you want, or you don't feel comfortable communicating what you want, then you'll likely have a fairly unsatisfying sex life until you get over that.

Posted: 28th May 2002
*flutterring by, realizes there's 4 pages of sex talk she's had no say on yet!*

OHKAAay, Howdy Y'all

Not having read ALL of the abouve, I may touch on some exausted issues, but oh well!

First of all, the Poi/Staff Masculine/Feminine thang... Personally, the gender issue dosn't cum into play. When it cums down to performance arts, be it poi, staff, juggling, dancing it's all about how you 'work it'. I think some guys look incrediblee sexy while poiing, Some, because of their body movements, and some because of their tequnique. The same goes for women. There are the mental associations we make for obvious reasons, of one toy being more masculine than another, but that kind of adds to the fun. Because the staff can be thought of as a fairly masculine instrument, I can see how a woman using one could be seen as sexy in itself, the whole female in charge thing (oohh ).
I myself, in general find woman far more sexually attractive than men. Women ARE more gracful, and so generally they all look good with poi, even if they can't do much. But this takes me bak 2 the 'work it' thing. Using our Mr Glass az an example, while he dosn't move around as some spinners, his technique is orgasmic. I could watch him poi, or contact, drooling for hours on end.
*feelz she may be straying off topic...*

Yes, bak 2 sex.From what I've read, most of the posts in this thread that actually address the question at hand, have been guys asking stuff like - 'How can I learn to go for 5 hours man?'.

Get it thru! YES, it is nice if a guy dusnt shoot his load in five minutes, but who wants five ours of raw humpage?
It should all be about how u hump it, rather than how long u hump 4. This taking me bak to the 'how u work it issue'. You could be a total stud, shagging for hours on end, and still not know what a woman wants. If you're able to make sum sort of connection with eachother, and react to eachothers signals, u can't go wrong. Experience, and TIME don't have to be a factor. In general, men want rougher sex, while women are quite gentle creatures, as long as you keep this in mind, and work for eachother, not just yourself sss'all good. (i'm sorry, but unless it's a 1nighter or sumthing, u gotta give to recieve. Selfish, one sided sex iz such a turn off)
But in saying this, there's much to be said for FUKING. Mr Flow's point of SEX and LOVEMAKING being separate entities iz so true. Some people can't handle this fact. As long as a couple is aware of the others intentions from the begining, I see no harm in straying from monogamy.

WOW I think this iz the longest rant I've ever had here!...

One mo' thang b4 I go- ORAL SEX.
IT'S DAMN GOOD SHIT, and I truely do NOT understand those who insist on keeping it a taboo. MEN- U know u love it, WOMEN- I KNOW you love it, so get on with it! Forget the toilet connection, forget the smells, we're fuking animals for gods sake, don't tell me we can't behave like them in the privacy of our own home!

Alright! I'm gone!
..now where's that whip..?..

DFQ

Az abouve, So below...

Posted: 28th May 2002
Here here DarkFairyQueen... I agree... you don't need you dick to please a lady... so remember that guys... don't just run for the finish line when you can get a drink half way... And sorry if that came out the wrong way... spank me...

---------------------------
It’s nice skipping the small talk. She doesn’t have to talk.

I can't hear you... I have a banana in my ear.

"You mean I'll have to use my brain?... but I use staff!!!" ~ ben-ja-men

Posted: 28th May 2002
May I?...

Az abouve, So below...

Posted: 28th May 2002
Ms DFQ, I love you more everyday!

Posted: 28th May 2002
Right bak-at-cha blondie
xx

Az abouve, So below...

Posted: 28th May 2002
Yay Lindzey!!

You're a star babe! Don't ever change.