Forums > Social Discussion > Violent computer games. Bad?
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UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
There will be a few references to things that are UK specific. Bare with me.
A few days ago they had an entirely bias "discussion" on Richard and Judy about violent video games. One of the guests was Tony Banks MP (as far as I can tell, the type of person that writes into the Daily Mail and begins with "I'm shocked and appalled by...") and he likened these games to child pornography. He also used phrases like 'What sort of sick society are we creating?' and "BAN THIS FILTH! BAN IT NOW!" Judging by the conversation they had going they appeared to have very little knowledge of games in general and seemed to think that most games were like this. One of the few valid points raised was that the mothers involved seemed to have very little idea about (or didn't orginally care about) the graphic violence involved.
Very few of the games released each year have 18 certificates. These ones did. They have 18 certificates for a reason.The same mothers that either allowed their child to buy one of these games or bought them on the childs behalf wouldn't allow their child to watch an 18 certificated movie. It's also worth pointing out that Britain has the harshest game certificating system in Europe (without resorting to heavy censership like they do in Germany - where blood has to be green or the game will be banned.)
There are bigger issues here. Whether these games cause people to be more violent is still unknown as much of the research is concradictory. One study showed that children who were shown an ambiguous picture after playing a violent game for half an hour were more likely to have a negative, violent impression of the picture than children that had played non violent games or children that had not been playing games. Another study showed that playing violent video games makes a person less violent as they get all their violence and frustration out in a controled situation. The reason I say that there are bigger issues here is that violent video games might make people more violent. Surely it is better to concentrate on something that definately makes people more violent like binge drinking?
There will be a few references to things that are UK specific. Bare with me.
A few days ago they had an entirely bias "discussion" on Richard and Judy about violent video games. One of the guests was Tony Banks MP (as far as I can tell, the type of person that writes into the Daily Mail and begins with "I'm shocked and appalled by...") and he likened these games to child pornography. He also used phrases like 'What sort of sick society are we creating?' and "BAN THIS FILTH! BAN IT NOW!" Judging by the conversation they had going they appeared to have very little knowledge of games in general and seemed to think that most games were like this. One of the few valid points raised was that the mothers involved seemed to have very little idea about (or didn't orginally care about) the graphic violence involved.
Very few of the games released each year have 18 certificates. These ones did. They have 18 certificates for a reason.The same mothers that either allowed their child to buy one of these games or bought them on the childs behalf wouldn't allow their child to watch an 18 certificated movie. It's also worth pointing out that Britain has the harshest game certificating system in Europe (without resorting to heavy censership like they do in Germany - where blood has to be green or the game will be banned.)
There are bigger issues here. Whether these games cause people to be more violent is still unknown as much of the research is concradictory. One study showed that children who were shown an ambiguous picture after playing a violent game for half an hour were more likely to have a negative, violent impression of the picture than children that had played non violent games or children that had not been playing games. Another study showed that playing violent video games makes a person less violent as they get all their violence and frustration out in a controled situation. The reason I say that there are bigger issues here is that violent video games might make people more violent. Surely it is better to concentrate on something that definately makes people more violent like binge drinking?
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
God's illgitament son
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion
1,489 posts
Location: state of confusion
Posted:
this problem is world wide, and as a gammer myself i think its bull. people are looking for any one to blame for a childs violence, when all they need to do is look at the parents. one of my fav games is Grand Theft Auto, one of, if not the, most violent games of our time, my daughter of 5 watches me paly it, along with the numerous fighting cames i have. the differance in her NOT being violent is me. i tell her constantly that what you see the character in this game do, is not ok to do in real life.
there was a case recently here in the US were some kids got in a car and drove around shooting people. when they got cought, they blamed Grand Theft, saying they wanted to immitate the game. now everyone was like "the game made them do it" "eveil games controll kids minds" etc. im sorry, if my child tryed to imatate a game like GTA, id look to myself first, then get the kid some kind of therapy cause this kid has problems
and your right Domino, they need to start trying to controll drinking, or domestic problems (like wife beating) before they are quick to blame a game.........its time for parents to take responsability for waht their kids do, and quit blaming others......
this problem is world wide, and as a gammer myself i think its bull. people are looking for any one to blame for a childs violence, when all they need to do is look at the parents. one of my fav games is Grand Theft Auto, one of, if not the, most violent games of our time, my daughter of 5 watches me paly it, along with the numerous fighting cames i have. the differance in her NOT being violent is me. i tell her constantly that what you see the character in this game do, is not ok to do in real life.
there was a case recently here in the US were some kids got in a car and drove around shooting people. when they got cought, they blamed Grand Theft, saying they wanted to immitate the game. now everyone was like "the game made them do it" "eveil games controll kids minds" etc. im sorry, if my child tryed to imatate a game like GTA, id look to myself first, then get the kid some kind of therapy cause this kid has problems
and your right Domino, they need to start trying to controll drinking, or domestic problems (like wife beating) before they are quick to blame a game.........its time for parents to take responsability for waht their kids do, and quit blaming others......
You can't avoid pain by fencing yourself from it.
Some times you need the help of others more than anything else
But you have to let them close enough to help......
People want to be needed, I found that out too
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
When the zombies start rising from their graves those people will be glad for video games and the legions of people who know how to kill zombies they create
I agree - the parents should take far more responsibility.
If a game has a big red 18 certificate logo stamped onto the box and they buy it for their children, it's their own fault. The certificate system was created for just this reason and the parents have no-one to blame but themselves if they ignore it.
When the zombies start rising from their graves those people will be glad for video games and the legions of people who know how to kill zombies they create
I agree - the parents should take far more responsibility.
If a game has a big red 18 certificate logo stamped onto the box and they buy it for their children, it's their own fault. The certificate system was created for just this reason and the parents have no-one to blame but themselves if they ignore it.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
BRONZE Member
Member
97 posts
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
Member
97 posts
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada
Posted:
the thing that pisses me off about the blame of violent video games is that its always the games that involve human characters never cartoon violence that is cited as a problem. its seems ok for link to hack away at ganon(zelda) but not ok for freeman to kill aliens(halflife). both are just as fictional yet live action seems to shoulder more of the blame. not sure if that makes sense cause i'm tired. seems to me games have become a scape-goat for parents and kids alike.
Written by: TheBovrilMonkey
When the zombies start rising from their graves those people will be glad for video games and the legions of people who know how to kill zombies they create
the thing that pisses me off about the blame of violent video games is that its always the games that involve human characters never cartoon violence that is cited as a problem. its seems ok for link to hack away at ganon(zelda) but not ok for freeman to kill aliens(halflife). both are just as fictional yet live action seems to shoulder more of the blame. not sure if that makes sense cause i'm tired. seems to me games have become a scape-goat for parents and kids alike.
"Not all who wander are lost. "
J.R.R. Tolkien
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
It's an interesting and hot topic right now. I think that GTA: San Andreas has taken violence in video games to a whole new level of realism and intensity. And it has sold millions of copies. I'm usually very liberal with my stance on this. Not because I enjoy playing it (which I do) but because I think it is a specific type of artistic freedom.
I do however, strongly support any aide or warning for parents. And I do think that, just as rated X movies are kept out of little one's hands, so should extremely violent video games. Even if that means I need to go into the separate dark room in the back of the store to buy it.
I'm glad though, that I wasn't exposed to such violence at a young age. It wasn't readily available and my parents did a good job of keeping me in legoland and other positive toys rather than focusing on violent ones.
As liberal as I want to see myself, I do worry about growing up in a world where 9 year olds are pretending to slice the throats of prostitutes for money and respect.
As with any new technology, we (as a society) should find a way to make it available without being misused by children.
It's an interesting and hot topic right now. I think that GTA: San Andreas has taken violence in video games to a whole new level of realism and intensity. And it has sold millions of copies. I'm usually very liberal with my stance on this. Not because I enjoy playing it (which I do) but because I think it is a specific type of artistic freedom.
I do however, strongly support any aide or warning for parents. And I do think that, just as rated X movies are kept out of little one's hands, so should extremely violent video games. Even if that means I need to go into the separate dark room in the back of the store to buy it.
I'm glad though, that I wasn't exposed to such violence at a young age. It wasn't readily available and my parents did a good job of keeping me in legoland and other positive toys rather than focusing on violent ones.
As liberal as I want to see myself, I do worry about growing up in a world where 9 year olds are pretending to slice the throats of prostitutes for money and respect.
As with any new technology, we (as a society) should find a way to make it available without being misused by children.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
This sounds like a classic games programing job interview question to me
There's a strong feeling amongst games designers that games are art. Thus, games must be protected by the same anti censorship laws as art is. The question really is when does art not become art? When is a statue of naked cherub adorning mary magdelan a classic masterpiece and when is it just blatent pedophillia?
I'm all for games being subjected to the same enforcement of age control as the film industry is, but I think games designers will in for a tough time as 3d engines get more realistic finding the balance of freedom of speech/expression of art and just blatent insightment into violence etc. The same thing happened only yesterday in the UK with theatre - a theatre in Birmingham had to cancel a play due to a protest which ended in violence over a story which included scenes of rape in a sikh temple. Is that supression of art, or should it never have been able to show the play in the first place? Should people be forced to sign a disclaimer before viewing saying that they understand it is just fiction? Should it be only viewable in liscenced venues down dark alley ways?
This sounds like a classic games programing job interview question to me
There's a strong feeling amongst games designers that games are art. Thus, games must be protected by the same anti censorship laws as art is. The question really is when does art not become art? When is a statue of naked cherub adorning mary magdelan a classic masterpiece and when is it just blatent pedophillia?
I'm all for games being subjected to the same enforcement of age control as the film industry is, but I think games designers will in for a tough time as 3d engines get more realistic finding the balance of freedom of speech/expression of art and just blatent insightment into violence etc. The same thing happened only yesterday in the UK with theatre - a theatre in Birmingham had to cancel a play due to a protest which ended in violence over a story which included scenes of rape in a sikh temple. Is that supression of art, or should it never have been able to show the play in the first place? Should people be forced to sign a disclaimer before viewing saying that they understand it is just fiction? Should it be only viewable in liscenced venues down dark alley ways?
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,207 posts
Location: "In your ear", United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok
my honest opinion
kids are naturally violent, they punch and hit each other, call names, and are generally rough with each other, just like cubs are in the wild with its mother
I think these impulses go back to our primal urges, and cant be overridden, just like your brains primal urge to stay alive and fight if you are being attacked, then run for safety.
The games, I think can influence kids minds, they give kids not necessarily the ideas, but more ways to play, and sometimes that play (if you can call it that) will show up as violent or destructive behaviour
give a child a toy car and eventually without any outside help they will crash it, and crash it again and again into a wall
child nature, they are learning
Does anyone remember the HUGE outrage power rangers when it came out, and kids imitated that on TV in the playgrounds, with kicks and punches....
children are a blank canvas onto which lots of information is quicking printed, and even if at a subconscious level, will affect them...
I see it every day, I work in a primary school ages 3-11, its very easy to see fights, and play, and sometime to know the difference....
the problem comes when you are trying to divide reality from fiction, to a child everything that happens on the TV can be hard to distinguish, you can ask a child what’s right and wrong, but maybe until they are more mature they might nit understand the grey area in the middle
i.e. - is it right to steal break to feed your staving children and wife?
Or
is it right to use lethal force to protect yourself from an intruder in your house (my opinion yes, if you come into my house, and endanger any one of my family, they you will pay a heavy price for your deed) but there have been court cases, of ppl, and in particular one man, who lived alone, on farm land, who was continuously burgled, who shot two young men, in his house, robbing him with a 12bore, he killed one and seriously injured another, they are trying to sue him, and I think he is in jail or just recently out
now he will not have played video games, but his will to survive drove him to that point
Computer games aside, unless you lock you child or yourself in a bubble and don’t show them anything for their whole lives, not nature, not other people, and they manage to grow up sain then yes they probably will not have as many violent encounters
nature in its own right is a violent and dangerous place....
Ok
my honest opinion
kids are naturally violent, they punch and hit each other, call names, and are generally rough with each other, just like cubs are in the wild with its mother
I think these impulses go back to our primal urges, and cant be overridden, just like your brains primal urge to stay alive and fight if you are being attacked, then run for safety.
The games, I think can influence kids minds, they give kids not necessarily the ideas, but more ways to play, and sometimes that play (if you can call it that) will show up as violent or destructive behaviour
give a child a toy car and eventually without any outside help they will crash it, and crash it again and again into a wall
child nature, they are learning
Does anyone remember the HUGE outrage power rangers when it came out, and kids imitated that on TV in the playgrounds, with kicks and punches....
children are a blank canvas onto which lots of information is quicking printed, and even if at a subconscious level, will affect them...
I see it every day, I work in a primary school ages 3-11, its very easy to see fights, and play, and sometime to know the difference....
the problem comes when you are trying to divide reality from fiction, to a child everything that happens on the TV can be hard to distinguish, you can ask a child what’s right and wrong, but maybe until they are more mature they might nit understand the grey area in the middle
i.e. - is it right to steal break to feed your staving children and wife?
Or
is it right to use lethal force to protect yourself from an intruder in your house (my opinion yes, if you come into my house, and endanger any one of my family, they you will pay a heavy price for your deed) but there have been court cases, of ppl, and in particular one man, who lived alone, on farm land, who was continuously burgled, who shot two young men, in his house, robbing him with a 12bore, he killed one and seriously injured another, they are trying to sue him, and I think he is in jail or just recently out
now he will not have played video games, but his will to survive drove him to that point
Computer games aside, unless you lock you child or yourself in a bubble and don’t show them anything for their whole lives, not nature, not other people, and they manage to grow up sain then yes they probably will not have as many violent encounters
nature in its own right is a violent and dangerous place....
Step (el-nombrie)
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
i can't believe that people think it's the fault of the game.
i've played loads of violient games and i'm not some murdering psycho am i?
if people DO go and do stuff as a direct result of playing a game like that, then you have to conclude that as so many other people don't, there must be something within that individual, even if the game triggers it off.
it's a running theme in our society that instead of trying to get to the root of the problem and working out why people behave in that way and teach them to love and respect eachother they blame the nearest thing. i guess it just seems easier.
i think it's sad that people can't be bothered to spend enough time working with people and helping them, and instead just want to take the easy way out by blaming someone else or banning something. it's just scapegoating.
i can't believe that people think it's the fault of the game.
i've played loads of violient games and i'm not some murdering psycho am i?
if people DO go and do stuff as a direct result of playing a game like that, then you have to conclude that as so many other people don't, there must be something within that individual, even if the game triggers it off.
it's a running theme in our society that instead of trying to get to the root of the problem and working out why people behave in that way and teach them to love and respect eachother they blame the nearest thing. i guess it just seems easier.
i think it's sad that people can't be bothered to spend enough time working with people and helping them, and instead just want to take the easy way out by blaming someone else or banning something. it's just scapegoating.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I know for a fact that playing violent video games makes me more violent.
The good news is that for me, my violence rises from 0.02 to 0.03. Still not enough to do anything radically different. But for others, that change may be larger. I know that when I walk home late at night after having just played GTA for 4 hours I'm WAY more on edge than when my sister talks us into watching some sappy movie.
I think it's naive to believe that ANY art form will NOT influence its viewer. That's what art is designed to do.
Written by: Tao Star
i can't believe that people think it's the fault of the game.
I know for a fact that playing violent video games makes me more violent.
The good news is that for me, my violence rises from 0.02 to 0.03. Still not enough to do anything radically different. But for others, that change may be larger. I know that when I walk home late at night after having just played GTA for 4 hours I'm WAY more on edge than when my sister talks us into watching some sappy movie.
I think it's naive to believe that ANY art form will NOT influence its viewer. That's what art is designed to do.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
"and in particular one man, who lived alone, on farm land,"
That would be Tony Martin.
I have changed my viewpioint on the ruling of the case (he was sent to prison then released early) many times.
But this isnt a thread about Tony Martin.
I think violent computer games, like generally eveything else in this world, has good and bad points.
A violent game can be a great outlet for anger or emotions. When I get pissed off, I turn on Halo1, easiest setting and tear through the levels, often killing everyone without firing a single shot, but instead choosing to smack them upside their heads. That does make me feel great and it does releave tension.
However, when I was 15 I think, I got Carmageddeon and my God I loved playing that. I did however alarm myself when i was int eh car with my dad. We had stopped at a zebra crossing for the pedestrians to cross over, when I suddenly shouted out "Run them o'er. Lets watch their limp bodies bounce lifelessly off the bonnet".
The pedestrians gave some rather worried looks....
"and in particular one man, who lived alone, on farm land,"
That would be Tony Martin.
I have changed my viewpioint on the ruling of the case (he was sent to prison then released early) many times.
But this isnt a thread about Tony Martin.
I think violent computer games, like generally eveything else in this world, has good and bad points.
A violent game can be a great outlet for anger or emotions. When I get pissed off, I turn on Halo1, easiest setting and tear through the levels, often killing everyone without firing a single shot, but instead choosing to smack them upside their heads. That does make me feel great and it does releave tension.
However, when I was 15 I think, I got Carmageddeon and my God I loved playing that. I did however alarm myself when i was int eh car with my dad. We had stopped at a zebra crossing for the pedestrians to cross over, when I suddenly shouted out "Run them o'er. Lets watch their limp bodies bounce lifelessly off the bonnet".
The pedestrians gave some rather worried looks....
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
did you have the red blood patch for carmageddon?
Carmageddeon is one of the main reasons I don't want to learn to drive
did you have the red blood patch for carmageddon?
Carmageddeon is one of the main reasons I don't want to learn to drive
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
Some good points, I forgot to mention the free speach argument before.
Some good points, I forgot to mention the free speach argument before.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
If video games turn 'peaceful' kids violent, that means I can blame misspelled words on my pencil....
If video games turn 'peaceful' kids violent, that means I can blame misspelled words on my pencil....
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,136 posts
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
does it?
Surely if computer games had affected us as kids then we'd all be into stomping around in darkened rooms chomping pills and listening to repetitive music?
does it?
Surely if computer games had affected us as kids then we'd all be into stomping around in darkened rooms chomping pills and listening to repetitive music?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
No. It doesn't.
Written by: Prometheus
If video games turn 'peaceful' kids violent, that means I can blame misspelled words on my pencil....
No. It doesn't.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
I find myself running around with an italian moustache on smashing alot of bricks and comsuming alot of mushrooms.
I keep trying to jump on other peoples heads
I find myself running around with an italian moustache on smashing alot of bricks and comsuming alot of mushrooms.
I keep trying to jump on other peoples heads
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
I've been to clubs like that
Written by: flid
Surely if computer games had affected us as kids then we'd all be into stomping around in darkened rooms chomping pills and listening to repetitive music?
I've been to clubs like that Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
GOLD Member
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Self-Flagellation Expert
3,414 posts
Location: Bogged at CG, Australia
Posted:
jack the ripper was a murdering psycho, apparently
ned kelly was a bit of a prick too.
as we all know, the nazis killed lots of non-assyrians
frederick the great killed most of the world
the khmer rouge (no idea how to spell it properly) werent the friendliest bunch either.
none of the above had computers, xboxes or grand theft autos to blame.
there are countless examples of people killing people, often in gruesome ways. its pointless to blame computer games for this, as computer games have only been around for, what, 10 years? realism has only been around for the last 5 or so.
Its just another thing in the 'things to blame before i take responsibility for my own actions and/or lack of action' list
jack the ripper was a murdering psycho, apparently
ned kelly was a bit of a prick too.
as we all know, the nazis killed lots of non-assyrians
frederick the great killed most of the world
the khmer rouge (no idea how to spell it properly) werent the friendliest bunch either.
none of the above had computers, xboxes or grand theft autos to blame.
there are countless examples of people killing people, often in gruesome ways. its pointless to blame computer games for this, as computer games have only been around for, what, 10 years? realism has only been around for the last 5 or so.
Its just another thing in the 'things to blame before i take responsibility for my own actions and/or lack of action' list
"beg beg grovel beg grovel"
"master"
--FSA
"There was an arse there, i couldn't help myself"
--Rougie
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
1) Nobody is saying that video games make people carry out specific violent acts.
2) Some people are only suggesting that they influence children in a negative way. Enough of these negative influences could add to the many factors already present in a child's life and cause a child to lean even further towards violence.
The first point is obvious. The second point is debatable. I think people here are getting stuck on the first point.
I'm torn myself on it.
1) Nobody is saying that video games make people carry out specific violent acts.
2) Some people are only suggesting that they influence children in a negative way. Enough of these negative influences could add to the many factors already present in a child's life and cause a child to lean even further towards violence.
The first point is obvious. The second point is debatable. I think people here are getting stuck on the first point.
I'm torn myself on it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
HoP Mechanical Engineer
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
729 posts
Location: OK, USA
Posted:
Repressive school rules, coupled with incompetent parenting are to blame for kid violence, not video games.
At most schools they don't even allow dodgeball anymore, a game we grew up with and loved. It's too "confronational" and kids "feel bad" when they get picked last. Boo-friggin-hoo.
We treat them like they're made of porcelain these days and in turn they're allowed to escalate their behavior without an effective deterrent. Children are stupid creatures, not smaller versions of adults, that need heavy guidance and actual parenting, not privileges secured by nutball parents who don't want the responsibility. Unfortunately, too often nowadays such things as snooping on a kid or spanking them are considered abuses of their (presumably adult) "rights." What sort of respect for authority are they going to have in this situation where the parent gets punished for trying to guide the child?
I'm in no way condoning child abuse here, but there comes a point where they're being regarded as too fragile, too responsible, or too out of control for a parent to be allowed to do something about their behavior. Look there for your teen violence explanation, not the latest low-quality shooter game that pops up.
Repressive school rules, coupled with incompetent parenting are to blame for kid violence, not video games.
At most schools they don't even allow dodgeball anymore, a game we grew up with and loved. It's too "confronational" and kids "feel bad" when they get picked last. Boo-friggin-hoo.
We treat them like they're made of porcelain these days and in turn they're allowed to escalate their behavior without an effective deterrent. Children are stupid creatures, not smaller versions of adults, that need heavy guidance and actual parenting, not privileges secured by nutball parents who don't want the responsibility. Unfortunately, too often nowadays such things as snooping on a kid or spanking them are considered abuses of their (presumably adult) "rights." What sort of respect for authority are they going to have in this situation where the parent gets punished for trying to guide the child?
I'm in no way condoning child abuse here, but there comes a point where they're being regarded as too fragile, too responsible, or too out of control for a parent to be allowed to do something about their behavior. Look there for your teen violence explanation, not the latest low-quality shooter game that pops up.
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
This debate has been something I've thought about for a long time now.. I have to say, I'm not a violent person, but I spent my entire childhood killing stuff in computer games and watching violent films. I'm not saying some people wouldn't confuse the fictional with reality.. but the same could be said of anything. Computer games are an interactive form of entertainment, but all entertainment has elements which people are shocked or offended by. It's just a sign that society is allowing certain people to push boundaries and make certain things OK when they wouldn't have been seen as OK 20 years ago.
Personally I use violent computer games to relax, because they are so unlike my personal experience of life. Or at the very most as a kind of catharsis - why be angry, argumentative and yeah, violent? Go into a digital unreality and take it out on things that don't exist.
This debate has been something I've thought about for a long time now.. I have to say, I'm not a violent person, but I spent my entire childhood killing stuff in computer games and watching violent films. I'm not saying some people wouldn't confuse the fictional with reality.. but the same could be said of anything. Computer games are an interactive form of entertainment, but all entertainment has elements which people are shocked or offended by. It's just a sign that society is allowing certain people to push boundaries and make certain things OK when they wouldn't have been seen as OK 20 years ago.
Personally I use violent computer games to relax, because they are so unlike my personal experience of life. Or at the very most as a kind of catharsis - why be angry, argumentative and yeah, violent? Go into a digital unreality and take it out on things that don't exist.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Member
84 posts
Location: utrecht
84 posts
Location: utrecht
Posted:
i agree with most of you.
the increased problems in society are not due to violent video games they are just an extension, it only adds a very small part. also earlier in this thread it is mentioned i agree most of it comes from incompetent parents.
i myself play plenty of computer games most of which are not that violent and yes i own my copy of carmageddon, it had even a fluffy bunny mode for when your 4 year old nephew suddenly walks into the room.
also indeed the games mentioned have a high rated certificate and most have an additional sticker warning parents of the explicit content of the game. the discussion than furthers as if only 9 year olds play computer games and every 9 year old plays those games??? where is the logic in that?
as for the guy who said about the american kids shooting people from a car, i agree it is only an excuse and they need to be helped since they obviously have a problem.
now if anyone can decipher my rant they earn a medal, but my point is this.
it is bullsh*t the games are not the blame.
Mickey_D
i agree with most of you.
the increased problems in society are not due to violent video games they are just an extension, it only adds a very small part. also earlier in this thread it is mentioned i agree most of it comes from incompetent parents.
i myself play plenty of computer games most of which are not that violent and yes i own my copy of carmageddon, it had even a fluffy bunny mode for when your 4 year old nephew suddenly walks into the room
. also indeed the games mentioned have a high rated certificate and most have an additional sticker warning parents of the explicit content of the game. the discussion than furthers as if only 9 year olds play computer games and every 9 year old plays those games??? where is the logic in that?
as for the guy who said about the american kids shooting people from a car, i agree it is only an excuse and they need to be helped since they obviously have a problem.
now if anyone can decipher my rant they earn a medal
, but my point is this.it is bullsh*t the games are not the blame.
Mickey_D
If you cant dezzle them with brilliance..
Confuse them with stupidity!!
(it works)
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
For the last 40-50 years, Bugs Bunny & Co. have been using dynamite, firearms, cannons, bats, and even the notorious selzter bottle in a purely violent manner, yet after watching countless hours of this behavior, I have never stuck a shotgun in someone's face at pointblank range and fired.
This is a medium which was primarily directed at children, and I don't remember dynamite parties in my school.
What influences people's actions is not exposure to any single particular thing. maybe society in general
For the last 40-50 years, Bugs Bunny & Co. have been using dynamite, firearms, cannons, bats, and even the notorious selzter bottle in a purely violent manner, yet after watching countless hours of this behavior, I have never stuck a shotgun in someone's face at pointblank range and fired.
This is a medium which was primarily directed at children, and I don't remember dynamite parties in my school.
What influences people's actions is not exposure to any single particular thing. maybe society in general
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
lol you would not believe how relevant this topic is right now for me..lol i have an 11 year old boy who "Has" to have the latest PS2 games mainly the new grand theft auto... i am not even going to try and spell the San ....... bit
anyway we brought it him but after a long long think about it and the type of child he is. it is indeed the parents responability to teach the children the difference between reality and a computer game and also what is right and wrong. when this does not happen its either computer games or music bands who get the blaim. it makes it easier for the parents then as the blame is not with them.
so if your child has violent out birsts after playing the game, stop them from playing it, you have control over what your child plays afterall, if its not there it can not be played.
lol you would not believe how relevant this topic is right now for me..lol i have an 11 year old boy who "Has" to have the latest PS2 games mainly the new grand theft auto... i am not even going to try and spell the San ....... bit
anyway we brought it him but after a long long think about it and the type of child he is. it is indeed the parents responability to teach the children the difference between reality and a computer game and also what is right and wrong. when this does not happen its either computer games or music bands who get the blaim. it makes it easier for the parents then as the blame is not with them.
so if your child has violent out birsts after playing the game, stop them from playing it, you have control over what your child plays afterall, if its not there it can not be played.
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
SILVER Member
member
157 posts
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
member
157 posts
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Posted:
I remember a girl I went to school with, and she put it like this:
A video game/movie/song/whatever may put the idea in your head, but you decide to act on it.
I find myself agreeing with her. And if you're too young to understand that it's just fantasy/art/whathaveyou, then where are your parents at? If more parents would do their jobs instead of expecting the rest of us to censor ourselves, then maybe we would not be having all these problems.
Remember that kid who burned himself imitating jackass and then his parents sued? I remember watching the tape that this kid and his friends made, and thinking "Where the hell were the parents at!?" By the looks of the tape, it must have taken those kids at least a couple of hours to do all the stuff they did before it even got to the point of playing with fire. I think those kids were in the neighborhood of 12 years old, and yet they were allowed to:
Stay up late and watch jackass, even though the parents knew and disapproved
Spend extended peroids of time away from ALL adult supervision
Run around with an expensive camera all they wanted
I had no sympathy for the parents. They could have nipped the whole thing in the bud had they forbidden the kid from watching that show and enforced it, ie- get caught watching it again and lose tv priveleges for awhile.
Or they could have checked up on the kids every so often while they were playing, or not allowed them to go to other kid's houses if an adult were not home.
In other words, if the parents were not asleep at the wheel, maybe the whole thing might not have happened.
Ever notice how the parents who scream loudest about "it takes a village" when they want something banned, are usually the ones who want to do the least at home to raise their own kids?
In the end, whatever "the village" does, it all comes down to what the kid gets at home, or doesn't get. And no amount of censorship or foam padding will ever change that.
I remember a girl I went to school with, and she put it like this:
A video game/movie/song/whatever may put the idea in your head, but you decide to act on it.
I find myself agreeing with her. And if you're too young to understand that it's just fantasy/art/whathaveyou, then where are your parents at? If more parents would do their jobs instead of expecting the rest of us to censor ourselves, then maybe we would not be having all these problems.
Remember that kid who burned himself imitating jackass and then his parents sued? I remember watching the tape that this kid and his friends made, and thinking "Where the hell were the parents at!?" By the looks of the tape, it must have taken those kids at least a couple of hours to do all the stuff they did before it even got to the point of playing with fire. I think those kids were in the neighborhood of 12 years old, and yet they were allowed to:
Stay up late and watch jackass, even though the parents knew and disapproved
Spend extended peroids of time away from ALL adult supervision
Run around with an expensive camera all they wanted
I had no sympathy for the parents. They could have nipped the whole thing in the bud had they forbidden the kid from watching that show and enforced it, ie- get caught watching it again and lose tv priveleges for awhile.
Or they could have checked up on the kids every so often while they were playing, or not allowed them to go to other kid's houses if an adult were not home.
In other words, if the parents were not asleep at the wheel, maybe the whole thing might not have happened.
Ever notice how the parents who scream loudest about "it takes a village" when they want something banned, are usually the ones who want to do the least at home to raise their own kids?
In the end, whatever "the village" does, it all comes down to what the kid gets at home, or doesn't get. And no amount of censorship or foam padding will ever change that.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of Tower Cranes, for you are soft and would look better when squashed by a full concrete bucket"
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
yup a thing that i do with my son and it works great is actually get to know his friends and let them spend as much time round here as they want, as long as they are good. that way i can monitor when they are doing, talking about etc.... no not spying just by doing house work and paying attention to things. i get to be called the coolest parent ever as the kids talk to me about their probs and i also get to keep an eye on my son. most kids that get into trouble get shoed out of their houses told to go out and play and get bored, when left to their own devices the barriers are pushed aside and they feel free to do the things they do, drinking in the park etc. i am no nieve parent but do like to think that this way is working for us right now.
sorry for going a bit off topic
yup a thing that i do with my son and it works great is actually get to know his friends and let them spend as much time round here as they want, as long as they are good. that way i can monitor when they are doing, talking about etc.... no not spying just by doing house work and paying attention to things. i get to be called the coolest parent ever as the kids talk to me about their probs and i also get to keep an eye on my son. most kids that get into trouble get shoed out of their houses told to go out and play and get bored, when left to their own devices the barriers are pushed aside and they feel free to do the things they do, drinking in the park etc. i am no nieve parent but do like to think that this way is working for us right now.
sorry for going a bit off topic
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
Friend o' mine spent ages installing his love all and everybody mentality into his 8 and 6 year olds. Give them some lego or sticks and they're soon shooting each other with them. It seems that it's pretty ingrained for children to try and smack the bejeezus out of each other irrespective of what they're told or shown, but I guess they soon learn that if they do it in real life it hurts.
I don't like violent video games, but then, I don't like video games full stop. I really don't think that Xbox is going to make anyone go out and kill someone unless they're inclined to do that in the first place, more I worry that the reality of death and injury as something that really affects people gets cast aside.
Friend o' mine spent ages installing his love all and everybody mentality into his 8 and 6 year olds. Give them some lego or sticks and they're soon shooting each other with them. It seems that it's pretty ingrained for children to try and smack the bejeezus out of each other irrespective of what they're told or shown, but I guess they soon learn that if they do it in real life it hurts.
I don't like violent video games, but then, I don't like video games full stop. I really don't think that Xbox is going to make anyone go out and kill someone unless they're inclined to do that in the first place, more I worry that the reality of death and injury as something that really affects people gets cast aside.
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok, just thought I'd bump this in regard to a game I just heard about.
Rockstar Games, who released GTA and Max Payne, are developing a new game. It's called "Bully". You play a 15 yr old boy who is send to a school, and you get points for beating up other kids, psychologically damaging them, and spitting in their food. No, seriously. You can spit in their food.
Now, I'm a reasonably confident gamer. I play some shooters, some strategy, some sims etc etc. I have a fair understanding of games. I was always on the side of the "Violence in games doesn't make kids kill people" debate. But now I think this game might. Here's why:
With GTA, or any other shooter, then it's not you. It's a fantasy, completely distinct from real life. Driving around the streets of an American city, as a black person, chased by American cops, shooting hookers is just as alien to me as killing Zombies in Half Life. I have no experience of these things come under the heading of "Fiction" in my head. Consequently, I know that I am not going to try and apply the lessons taught there to real life (e.g. Killing hookers is a good way to get money). No-one I know has a lifestyle even vaguely similar to the ones depicted in games. Even The Sims has no relation to real life.
But this new game is different. Everyone knows what bullying is like. Everyone has been bullied, or been a bully. It isn't fiction, it's real life. Everyone has been 15 years old and at school. Well, most people have.
So now I think that this game will only create more violence in schools, which we have too much of anyway. This is the one game I have ever seen where I think "Sorry, you've crossed the line there." It's an encouragement for children to do things *that they are just as capable of doing in real life*. The glorification of bullying is sickening. What's next? Bonus points for knifing someone and stealing their mobile? Bonus points for killing ethnic minorities?
The premise of this game is disgusting. I think that I won't buy another Rockstar game. Which is a shame, because I enjoyed Max Payne 1 and 2. But this isn't a game, this is a grab for media attention, and can only cause damage.
Ok, just thought I'd bump this in regard to a game I just heard about.
Rockstar Games, who released GTA and Max Payne, are developing a new game. It's called "Bully". You play a 15 yr old boy who is send to a school, and you get points for beating up other kids, psychologically damaging them, and spitting in their food. No, seriously. You can spit in their food.
Now, I'm a reasonably confident gamer. I play some shooters, some strategy, some sims etc etc. I have a fair understanding of games. I was always on the side of the "Violence in games doesn't make kids kill people" debate. But now I think this game might. Here's why:
With GTA, or any other shooter, then it's not you. It's a fantasy, completely distinct from real life. Driving around the streets of an American city, as a black person, chased by American cops, shooting hookers is just as alien to me as killing Zombies in Half Life. I have no experience of these things come under the heading of "Fiction" in my head. Consequently, I know that I am not going to try and apply the lessons taught there to real life (e.g. Killing hookers is a good way to get money). No-one I know has a lifestyle even vaguely similar to the ones depicted in games. Even The Sims has no relation to real life.
But this new game is different. Everyone knows what bullying is like. Everyone has been bullied, or been a bully. It isn't fiction, it's real life. Everyone has been 15 years old and at school. Well, most people have.
So now I think that this game will only create more violence in schools, which we have too much of anyway. This is the one game I have ever seen where I think "Sorry, you've crossed the line there." It's an encouragement for children to do things *that they are just as capable of doing in real life*. The glorification of bullying is sickening. What's next? Bonus points for knifing someone and stealing their mobile? Bonus points for killing ethnic minorities?
The premise of this game is disgusting. I think that I won't buy another Rockstar game. Which is a shame, because I enjoyed Max Payne 1 and 2. But this isn't a game, this is a grab for media attention, and can only cause damage.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
I've not seen a great deal about this bully game, except that it's been described by rockstar games as a game in which 'gamers play a "troublesome schoolboy" who "stands up to bullies, gets picked on by teachers, plays pranks on malicious kids, wins or loses the girl, and ultimately learns to navigate the obstacles of the fictitious reform school.'
That doesn't sound too bad to me.
Also, it's predicted that it'll be getting an 18 certificate. There's no leeway there, kids shouldn't be playing this game. If everything was enforced as it should be, there'd be no increased violence in schools or anything like that.
My opinion is that the games manufacterers are being turned into scapegoats far too often at the moment. True, they shoot themselves in the foot now and then with their publicity stunts and the like, but it's like criticising a brewery because of what happens to children who drink their beer. Someone had to sell them the beer, or buy it for them, so it's their fault if the children get horribly drunk.
We already have laws in place to restrict games to certain agegroups, it's the people who break them that are in the wrong here, something needs to be done about that instead of blaming the games designers I think.
I've not seen a great deal about this bully game, except that it's been described by rockstar games as a game in which 'gamers play a "troublesome schoolboy" who "stands up to bullies, gets picked on by teachers, plays pranks on malicious kids, wins or loses the girl, and ultimately learns to navigate the obstacles of the fictitious reform school.'
That doesn't sound too bad to me.
Also, it's predicted that it'll be getting an 18 certificate. There's no leeway there, kids shouldn't be playing this game. If everything was enforced as it should be, there'd be no increased violence in schools or anything like that.
My opinion is that the games manufacterers are being turned into scapegoats far too often at the moment. True, they shoot themselves in the foot now and then with their publicity stunts and the like, but it's like criticising a brewery because of what happens to children who drink their beer. Someone had to sell them the beer, or buy it for them, so it's their fault if the children get horribly drunk.
We already have laws in place to restrict games to certain agegroups, it's the people who break them that are in the wrong here, something needs to be done about that instead of blaming the games designers I think.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
lol this bully game just sounds like abit lame to me, if i played this when i was 14 i wouldnt go to school and feel the need to yank out ruth hopwoods pigtails, or brake sinead whitickars glasses.
When that womans son supposidly copied a murder from the game Manhunt, I just looked at the tv screen funny and said his laywer told him to say that and his mum is desperate to shift the blame from herself into something else, she should be investigated for not noticeing her 16 whatever year old son had mental problems, heaven help us if she has other children, runing around watching CSI planning how to kill the nextdoor neightboures because they saw a particular eppisode.
lol this bully game just sounds like abit lame to me, if i played this when i was 14 i wouldnt go to school and feel the need to yank out ruth hopwoods pigtails, or brake sinead whitickars glasses.
When that womans son supposidly copied a murder from the game Manhunt, I just looked at the tv screen funny and said his laywer told him to say that and his mum is desperate to shift the blame from herself into something else, she should be investigated for not noticeing her 16 whatever year old son had mental problems, heaven help us if she has other children, runing around watching CSI planning how to kill the nextdoor neightboures because they saw a particular eppisode.
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
SILVER Member
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Pasta of Muppets
2,722 posts
Location: in the interwebs..., United Kingdom
Posted:
Once again I bring out the
to Bov and Joe. Who's to blame for psychopaths? No-one but genetics and parentage. And the psychopaths too of course.
Once again I bring out the
to Bov and Joe. Who's to blame for psychopaths? No-one but genetics and parentage. And the psychopaths too of course. ohmygodlaserbeamspewpewpew!
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