Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > five hole style
Login/Join to Participateenthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
Another idea i've been playing with; its a fairly simple idea, with lots of extensions...
If you stand with your legs apart and your arms horizontal, you look a little bit like a blob with 5 bits sticking out - 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. OK, maybe the blob bit was a little harsh, but you get what I mean
Five bits sticking out means five holes between them, and as everyone knows the best thing to do with a hole is poke a stick in and wiggle it about.
So, starting with the simplest stuff, pick up a staff and try to do 1 beat twirling in each of the holes. Each hole can be entered from either the front or the back, and potentially with either the front or back of the hand pointing forwards. So on the front side, you get
- reaching up to between the opposite shoulder and your head (farside ear)
- reaching across to the opposite hip/armpit (farside hip)
- reaching down to your crotch (between the legs)
- upper arm horizontal and forearm pointing down (nearside hip)
- upper arm horizontal and forearm up (nearside ear)
Once you can do 1 beat spins in each of these, try transitioning from each one to the next - you should be able to do one beat in each in the order listed with the staff spinning forwards (moving outwards in the top half of each rotation). Then try the same thing backwards.
Then try the same thing but entering the back of the holes - this is what leads on to all the btb stuff. It's harder to do all 5 in a row behind, as you can't move from farside hip to ear, but if you start in farside hip you should be able to go through btl, nearside hip, nearside ear to farside ear behind. It's a bit confusing on the nearside whether your're coming in from the front or the back, so just go with what fits.
With one staff you can then take it onto two beat patterns in each hole (although some of these are quite hard, and will lead to a battered head/crotch...
)
With doubles, things reall start to take off... You get the basics for btb butterflies, parallel waistwraps and lots of other stuff. If I remember right there's some lovely examples on knoxious' video of same-direction nearside hip - nearside ear transitions, with 1 beat turns thrown in. I'll put up some of my favourite variations when I'm not supposed to be doing something else
For me, being the technomaniac I am, it's really nice to have a framework which lets me describe these moves (even if only to myself) and see the holes
in my learning, so I can say "what if I tried..."
Oh yeah, and don't forget to warm up those wrists, a lot of these can be killers!
Another idea i've been playing with; its a fairly simple idea, with lots of extensions...
If you stand with your legs apart and your arms horizontal, you look a little bit like a blob with 5 bits sticking out - 2 arms, 2 legs and a head. OK, maybe the blob bit was a little harsh, but you get what I mean
Five bits sticking out means five holes between them, and as everyone knows the best thing to do with a hole is poke a stick in and wiggle it about.
So, starting with the simplest stuff, pick up a staff and try to do 1 beat twirling in each of the holes. Each hole can be entered from either the front or the back, and potentially with either the front or back of the hand pointing forwards. So on the front side, you get
- reaching up to between the opposite shoulder and your head (farside ear)
- reaching across to the opposite hip/armpit (farside hip)
- reaching down to your crotch (between the legs)
- upper arm horizontal and forearm pointing down (nearside hip)
- upper arm horizontal and forearm up (nearside ear)
Once you can do 1 beat spins in each of these, try transitioning from each one to the next - you should be able to do one beat in each in the order listed with the staff spinning forwards (moving outwards in the top half of each rotation). Then try the same thing backwards.
Then try the same thing but entering the back of the holes - this is what leads on to all the btb stuff. It's harder to do all 5 in a row behind, as you can't move from farside hip to ear, but if you start in farside hip you should be able to go through btl, nearside hip, nearside ear to farside ear behind. It's a bit confusing on the nearside whether your're coming in from the front or the back, so just go with what fits.
With one staff you can then take it onto two beat patterns in each hole (although some of these are quite hard, and will lead to a battered head/crotch...
)With doubles, things reall start to take off... You get the basics for btb butterflies, parallel waistwraps and lots of other stuff. If I remember right there's some lovely examples on knoxious' video of same-direction nearside hip - nearside ear transitions, with 1 beat turns thrown in. I'll put up some of my favourite variations when I'm not supposed to be doing something else
For me, being the technomaniac I am, it's really nice to have a framework which lets me describe these moves (even if only to myself) and see the holes
in my learning, so I can say "what if I tried..."Oh yeah, and don't forget to warm up those wrists, a lot of these can be killers!
monkeys ate my brain
PLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom
Posted:
Oh man, I thought this was going to be a way to kill somebody with five pokes, kill bill vol 2 style.
It's really dissapointing that it's not. Though it's quite funny to find out how techy you are dave!
Oh man, I thought this was going to be a way to kill somebody with five pokes, kill bill vol 2 style.
It's really dissapointing that it's not. Though it's quite funny to find out how techy you are dave!
"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade
I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
Nice one. That sounds wicked, I must have a play.
Nice one. That sounds wicked, I must have a play.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
im glad you specified the precise location....
oh well *sigh* i thought it was funny anyway.
but your idea is a great way of breaking things down to the basics.
cheers.
Quote:
- reaching down to your crotch (between the legs)
im glad you specified the precise location....
oh well *sigh* i thought it was funny anyway.
but your idea is a great way of breaking things down to the basics.
cheers.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
OK, my supervisor was late, so here's a few:
Doubles Five Hole Variations
When it's + , that means one hand is doing the
first one and the other hand is doing the second one at the same time.
Forwards Butterfly Direction
(Both staffs moving so that the top half of the rotation is outwards,
in sync with each other)
1) Both hands nearside hip - Basic butterfly style move
2) Both hands nearside ear - Another basic. If you move your hands so
that they meet above your head, you get what i got taught as being a
"butterfly"
Transitions between these two are really nice, as are 1 beat turns
3) Nearside hip + farside hip behind - waistwrap butterfly
4) Farside hip in front + farside hip behind, transitioning to farside
hip behind + farside hip in front. So each hand goes:
farside hip in front -> nearside hip -> farside hip behind -> nearside
hip.
I you don't actually do a beat *on* the nearside hip, but there is one
beat somwhere in the transition from front to back
This one has a really nice feel to it, like you're hugging yourself on
opposite sides. Aaaah...
5) btl front + btl back -> btl back + btl front. It's quite hard to
get this without the staffs hitting each other, but when you do, it
looks lovely - its a bit like an isolation where the two staffs come
together and form one huge rod between your legs. Again, there's one
beat in the transition back -> front
6) nearside hip + farside hip behind -> farside hip behind + nearside
hip. OK, this is a confusing one, because one side needs a carry beat
and the other doesn't so the timing gets wierd. The version I'm
working on at the moment is a 4 beat, so you do 1 beat butterfly ww on
one side, a funny carry beat where the back ends of the staffs come up
in front of your body, one beat butterfly ww on the other side, and
then the same funny carry beat back. Hmmm, not much of a description.
You can do a 5 beat, which is more like
6b) nearside hip + farside hip behind -> both nearside hip -> farside
hip behind + nearside hip -> both nearside hip. But I really like the
4 beat. (Although my wrists don't
)
Forwards Split Time
(Staffs moving outwards, 1 beat out of sync)
7) lh btl back -> rh btl back -> lh btl front -> rh btl front. Just
like 5), but out of sync, you get one staff head appearing between
your legs, then the other, and then just as the second one is
disappearing you're poking the first one through from the opposite
direction...
Same Direction Same Time
(one staff forwards, one backwards, in time)
8) nearside hip + farside hip behind -> farside hip behind + nearside
hip. Parallel waist wraps. Going from one side to the other has a beat
of carrying, but the other direction doesn't.
OK, that's a few variations, I'll put up some more after the weekend
OK, my supervisor was late, so here's a few:
Doubles Five Hole Variations
When it's
first one and the other hand is doing the second one at the same time.
Forwards Butterfly Direction
(Both staffs moving so that the top half of the rotation is outwards,
in sync with each other)
1) Both hands nearside hip - Basic butterfly style move
2) Both hands nearside ear - Another basic. If you move your hands so
that they meet above your head, you get what i got taught as being a
"butterfly"
Transitions between these two are really nice, as are 1 beat turns
3) Nearside hip + farside hip behind - waistwrap butterfly
4) Farside hip in front + farside hip behind, transitioning to farside
hip behind + farside hip in front. So each hand goes:
farside hip in front -> nearside hip -> farside hip behind -> nearside
hip.
I you don't actually do a beat *on* the nearside hip, but there is one
beat somwhere in the transition from front to back
This one has a really nice feel to it, like you're hugging yourself on
opposite sides. Aaaah...
5) btl front + btl back -> btl back + btl front. It's quite hard to
get this without the staffs hitting each other
, but when you do, itlooks lovely - its a bit like an isolation where the two staffs come
together and form one huge rod between your legs. Again, there's one
beat in the transition back -> front
6) nearside hip + farside hip behind -> farside hip behind + nearside
hip. OK, this is a confusing one, because one side needs a carry beat
and the other doesn't so the timing gets wierd. The version I'm
working on at the moment is a 4 beat, so you do 1 beat butterfly ww on
one side, a funny carry beat where the back ends of the staffs come up
in front of your body, one beat butterfly ww on the other side, and
then the same funny carry beat back. Hmmm, not much of a description.
You can do a 5 beat, which is more like
6b) nearside hip + farside hip behind -> both nearside hip -> farside
hip behind + nearside hip -> both nearside hip. But I really like the
4 beat. (Although my wrists don't
)Forwards Split Time
(Staffs moving outwards, 1 beat out of sync)
7) lh btl back -> rh btl back -> lh btl front -> rh btl front. Just
like 5), but out of sync, you get one staff head appearing between
your legs, then the other, and then just as the second one is
disappearing you're poking the first one through from the opposite
direction...
Same Direction Same Time
(one staff forwards, one backwards, in time)
8) nearside hip + farside hip behind -> farside hip behind + nearside
hip. Parallel waist wraps. Going from one side to the other has a beat
of carrying, but the other direction doesn't.
OK, that's a few variations, I'll put up some more after the weekend
monkeys ate my brain
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
well, I don't want to confuse the people with crotches on their arms. Or is that elbows, I can never get them the right way round. Arses.
Quote:Quote:
- reaching down to your crotch (between the legs)
im glad you specified the precise location....
well, I don't want to confuse the people with crotches on their arms. Or is that elbows, I can never get them the right way round. Arses.
monkeys ate my brain
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
nice concept
Ive been working on something similar - cept I like to think of it as above and below (or right and left depending on the orientation of said limb/hole) joints or limbs.
so instead of referring to doing a move thru the left hip/armpit hole, I'd say the focus of the move is next to the left hip or armpit...ie its adjacent to the left hipjoint or under the left shoulder joint. I identify a number of different sites the move can be done which exist in the same 'mo-seph hole'. Talking this way helps to maintain symetry with moves that travel above and below - and it also differentiates betweem moves that say...wrap around the elbow joint (eg with doubles do forward figure8s in wall plane, cross the body with one, do a reverse figure eight under the opposite elbow and then straight over the top of that elbow, and then return to the beginning.) or wrap around the shoulder joint (the same move I just described can be done around the shoulder too..and the knee...and if you only did the first half of it (without the going straight up over) at the waist, that would be a standard front waist wrap, etc etc etc
So your theory is similar to mine, cept I pick a point on the body and do moves centred on it, you pick a point of least resistance between limbs and move through it. In practice they produce similar techniques, its just a slightly different approach.
I hope this clears things up?
Josh
EDITED_BY: Josh (1085539577)
nice concept
Ive been working on something similar - cept I like to think of it as above and below (or right and left depending on the orientation of said limb/hole) joints or limbs.
so instead of referring to doing a move thru the left hip/armpit hole, I'd say the focus of the move is next to the left hip or armpit...ie its adjacent to the left hipjoint or under the left shoulder joint. I identify a number of different sites the move can be done which exist in the same 'mo-seph hole'. Talking this way helps to maintain symetry with moves that travel above and below - and it also differentiates betweem moves that say...wrap around the elbow joint (eg with doubles do forward figure8s in wall plane, cross the body with one, do a reverse figure eight under the opposite elbow and then straight over the top of that elbow, and then return to the beginning.) or wrap around the shoulder joint (the same move I just described can be done around the shoulder too..and the knee...and if you only did the first half of it (without the going straight up over) at the waist, that would be a standard front waist wrap, etc etc etc
So your theory is similar to mine, cept I pick a point on the body and do moves centred on it, you pick a point of least resistance between limbs and move through it. In practice they produce similar techniques, its just a slightly different approach.
I hope this clears things up?
Josh
EDITED_BY: Josh (1085539577)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
Yes mate, nice one!
I've just been for a play, and had lots of fun trying to stick hands to joints. e.g. if you stick each hand to the opposite shoulder and try and do fig8s. That feels very silly.
Something which might be useful for butterfly ww's from your other thread was sticking a hand to the opposite shoulder, and doing one beat above and one beat below it; doing this in same direction (not butterfly) and moving from side to side gives a really nice wallplane 3 beat weave thingummy. It might well be transferrable to butterfly stuff too...
But I'm afraid I blame you entirely for my broken lampshade . I guess I'll have to get practice sticks for inside which are less than 1.5m
Quote:
I hope this clears things up?
Yes mate, nice one!
I've just been for a play, and had lots of fun trying to stick hands to joints. e.g. if you stick each hand to the opposite shoulder and try and do fig8s. That feels very silly
.Something which might be useful for butterfly ww's from your other thread was sticking a hand to the opposite shoulder, and doing one beat above and one beat below it; doing this in same direction (not butterfly) and moving from side to side gives a really nice wallplane 3 beat weave thingummy. It might well be transferrable to butterfly stuff too...
But I'm afraid I blame you entirely for my broken lampshade
. I guess I'll have to get practice sticks for inside which are less than 1.5m monkeys ate my brain
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
hehe
Rob will tell you about my matchstickiness...although - most of the moves still work with poles, but you need to have the timing spot on.
I'll try that shoulder same direction move - let you know how it goes...fanks for that!
Josh
hehe
Rob will tell you about my matchstickiness...although - most of the moves still work with poles, but you need to have the timing spot on.
I'll try that shoulder same direction move - let you know how it goes...fanks for that!
Josh
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
hey matchstick boy how do
dave, psi has some really nice stuff like this shown to me at lopndon juggling convention last year, i'll show you some variations tonight if you're at juggling(assuming my hand can take it...) or next week at meadowage.
hugs
R
hey matchstick boy how do
dave, psi has some really nice stuff like this shown to me at lopndon juggling convention last year, i'll show you some variations tonight if you're at juggling(assuming my hand can take it...) or next week at meadowage.
hugs
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
enthusiast
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
523 posts
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Posted:
Sweet, I'll look forward to it.
And then probably try to write it up here to avoid a bit more work
By the way, are my swords still in the van?
Yay, it's summer! 
laters,
d
Sweet, I'll look forward to it.
And then probably try to write it up here to avoid a bit more work
By the way, are my swords still in the van?
Yay, it's summer! laters,
d
monkeys ate my brain
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
s-words are in t'office.
laters?
s-words are in t'office.
laters?
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
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