Forums > Advanced Staff moves > Aerial contact

Posted: 5th Jul 2009
???

aerials (in my undertanding) involve acrobatics - and if you're doing firebreathing along with acrobatics, you're putting yourself at an extremely highe risk, than if you would do it only.

I'd not recommend anyone to follow that, but advise you to inform yourself on the hazards involved. Most people I know performing firebreathing either quit doing it, limited it down to their gigs - or had severe accidents. Sure if you want to include it, then you need (a lot of) practise.

aerial "contact" in my understanding would be partner-acrobatics. By itself certainly a beautiful act to watch and to perform.

It seems as if you have bad experiences in your fire spinning community. Sorry to hear that. Only to tell you from my experience that protectionism usually aint working.

Hence I respect your decision not to share your technique.

Yes, I have seen partner acrobatics and firespinning and firebreathing joined, I have seen Capoeira moves and firespinning joined - IF that is what you are talking about.

And no: so far I have not seen anyone crazy enough to keep their mouth filled with kerosene whilst performing *real* acrobacy (of a higher degree as in flic flac, backflip, or anything involving jumps) - and I would discourage anyone to do so.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1246796996)

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 18th Jul 2009
well let me start by saying thank you for your concern firetom and your right about it taking a lot of practice and study. I've been fire spitting for three years now and twirling for four(freshman in years but not in hours, 4hrs training minimum per day) it took me six months of solid training to go for the AC spit. I'm fully aware of both the short and long term hazards of fire spitting and the immediate dangers, so please hold the lectures I accept the consequences of my actions without fear or regret after all it is an occupational hazard that will always be involved in this, art/sport/science/way of life. I've seen what happens to people that stuff up, and I know my chemistry and physics amongst many other branches of science I've included in my training. The aerial it self isn't all that big, sometimes it's a shaolin crescent butterfly kick sometimes just a 360 spin depends on how ballsy I'm feeling and how my knee is, as I do have a long term injury from being a life long adrenalin junkie/tool/freak (at least I'm honest) but my dream tech that I'm working towards is a reverse butterfly with 180 twist matrix, estimated training required 5yrs to first successful landing 8yrs to first successful spitting version. Don't hold me back with concern just wish me luck and trust my skills, thats what I do, as for the fire spitting capoiera all that you mentioned and more my avatar is a pic of one session that invoved two spitters point blank range having what looks like a full blown fire fight lol lots of fun but yes exceedingly dangerous.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion

Posted: 18th Jul 2009
Ok......

Posted: 20th Jul 2009
Never heard of aerial contact, but if what firetom says it is then that is wicked man, kudos for pushing you self sounds like you do alot of training to get to that. As for other people stealing your moves surely its a pleasure to teach people these things and share the knowledge that to think they have stolen it from you, if i see a mint move i copy it and intergrate into my spinning, dont we all? I can empathise with the thinking that i put all the effort into learning so why should others get an easy ride but its a shame that these people have made you think like that as the community can only progress with the shared knowledge we all have. You should be proud of yourself if someone uses your moves dude. keep pursuing the aerial contact and i hope to see a vid at some point man

peas

Posted: 20th Jul 2009
So as in doing contact staff while performing an aerial?

I do aerials (the free cartwheel variation rather than the no handed front walkover one) and contact staff but not together yet. That would be awesome. I do a trick which is just a behind the back pass while aerialing (thats probably not really a word but you get what i mean).

Trying to work out what you would do with it as aerials are pretty fast and generally contact staff likes to be fairly slow. I guess you could roll it through your legs like in a cartwheel roll, or keep it on your neck while you flip.

I've been working on a halo roll while doing a butterfly kick. It fits nicely into a turning halo but its pretty hard to get any kind of height while keeping the staff on your body.

I'd also like to get a horizontal angel roll while doing a butterfly kick but again getting the height for the kick to look good is hard while keeping the staff stable.

I'd like to see a video of what your doing but if you want to keep your moves secret that's your own prerogative. Personally im of the mind that if you find something cool you should share it with the community. If you see someone else doing 'your' move be flattered that they thought it was cool enough to learn it themselves. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

"Don't do it naked!"

Posted: 20th Jul 2009
See my main problem with the idea of people taking my moves was that there was a crew in the town I came from that used to pay out on my techs and then use the very techs they payed out on in their gigs. I didn't have a problem with them paying out on the techs, didn't have a prob with teaching them but if they wanted them so badly why not hire the guy that keeps coming up with new stuff and give credit where it's due instead of jealous insults. Mind you I would also rather see someone take a move and alter it, even if it's only a minor alteration it's still a demonstration of creativity. I'm not saying don't try to learn every tech you see as that is my own personal quest, to try and learn everything possible in one lifetime.
EDITED_BY: burning_ninja (1248090705)

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion

Posted: 20th Jul 2009
Ahh Sandy thats where the irony is, I'm a big guy yeah, but I don't use a contact staff, I do contact, even matrix and many other weird and wonderful variations but all on a 120cm short staff, although if you do a no handed cartwheel you should be able to figure the timing out for a contact staff, just make sure you practice it without the fire first hey. oh and a tip to help get smoother jumps for an AC tech try doing a butterfly kick with a cup filled half way with water, it'll help to stop jolts that break contact upon take off or landing. Oh and one other thing, it's not just because of tech borrowing that I don't have videos, it's because I have trouble getting any kind of footage of myself and at present the only footage I have is really old and on tapes not cards or modern technology, my friends wont bring their cameras near me cause they break down very quickly same with computers, the longer they stay near me the more likely they'll end up stuffed. I am trying though, phone cameras seem to have a small chance I've noticed cause I have a bailed attempt on a memory card from my old phone but the phone itself no longer works, irony man if I had videos I'd have logged a resume with cirque.
EDITED_BY: burning_ninja (1248091311)

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion

Posted: 20th Jul 2009
I've thought about this. There's a cool back of the neck cartwheel thing that could potentially be turned into an aerial cartwheel. I can't do an aerial yet so it doesn't really do me any good.

People have been working on contact butterfly kicks for a while now from what I've seen. I think acrobatic chinese meteor would be a good place to look for inspiration. Also check out monkey staff, it's not contact but there are still plenty of good ideas in there.

Also if your staff is weighted for contact I'd still call it a contact staff.. I use a 4.5ft staff which isn't much bigger than yours (4ft) and it's still technically a contact staff.

Honestly I'd be more worried about people hurting themselves rather than "stealing" your moves. Most of the people who would see your videos live halfway across the world... I doubt they will be taking your gigs. And even if they were in Austrailia, they would have to have an understanding of acrobatics in the first place...

So do you have any ideas outside of butterfly kicks and aerial cartwheels? The idea of an aerial matrix is pretty cool.

Aerial contact is HARD, I wish you the best of luck.

EDITED_BY: bls337 (1248144048)

Posted: 21st Jul 2009
thanks man, I've always wanted to learn how to do a side flip/boomerang flip so I could think about a boomerang flip jesus but thats way further down the track, I'd need a foam pit to build up to it, same with the matrix aerial hence the five year estimate and as for my staff it's quite literally just a normal 120cm three worlds staff no extra weight but I did learn how to do contact on a really heavy one first and then cut down the weight gradually, It's been a pleasure talking with you man the only reason I wanted to find out if others were doing aerial contact was cause I was hoping to find someone that could give some advice but I think I'm on the right track and I'm hoping others will follow but my advice is find a foam pit, stuffing up aerials is more painful and dangerous than any burn I would know I have a cyst the size of a baseball in my right knee from stuffing up an attempt at a boomerang flip, things we do for fun huh.

It is by will alone I set my mind in motion

Posted: 21st Sep 2009
ok....look, i dont mean to be instigatory, but I call bullshit!

firstly, Mr.Ninja, there is a major problem with your attitude. You seem to feel a great sense of possession over the techniques you use. technique is technique, you cant own it, you can only perform it, and teach it if you want to.

secondly, you are talking about doing acrobatic tumbling skills while you are spinning staff....contact staff takes a long time to learn, acrobatics takes a long time to learn, combining the two adds even more to that. people wouldnt be able to just grab your technique and run away with it, and if they could, more power to them, they deserve it.

also, all of the contact staff technique you have learned has more than likely been for free online. there are very few people in the world right now getting payed to teach contact staff.

doing a hurricane kick, or crescent kick with a staff on your shoulder doesnt really count as new technique, nor is it something worth guarding

and on the note of side semi's/side flips...i bet you could start an angel roll as you set and flip with the staff rotating between your legs, it would be kinda steppy/clunky, but the set makes sense.


Ninja Dude, you're a punk.

BOOOOOM!
-Tank

Posted: 22nd Sep 2009
well said Tankboy!

Posted: 23rd Sep 2009
"It is good to be a seeker,
but sooner or later
you have to be a finder.
And then it is well
to give what you have found,
a gift into the world
for whoever will accept it."

Working hard to be a wandering hippie layabout. Ten years down, five to go!

Posted: 27th Sep 2009
Righto. Just got back to Bris. I'm looking for gigs. Give me secret ninja moves!



Honestly though, i would have to say that in my experience, sharing in this context is really not bad for business. I'm sorry if you've had some negative experiences though. But you know, at the end of the day, Home of Poi is a gift community. I like that.

Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

Posted: 1st Oct 2009
a few months of training might make a pro but not a master and you wouldn't have to be for making money with your profession, right?

no lectures dude - it's your life and you live it the best way you can imagine it. performing aereals or doing excessive movement with your body, whilst having your mouth filled with kerosene = asking for trouble ... NFSW - IMNSHO

looking at your attitude now from this angle ... it would have been better if nobody ever taught you any moves... [/edited for content]

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 13th Oct 2009
HoP is a sharing community. We all help each other out and help the community grow. Of course your pissed about people stealing your moves, but this is a different community.

From what it seems, no one here is even at your level, so what do you have to lose?. Submit to Circles of Light and get 1st place and finally get something out of your practice maybe?. But it feels like you're talking down to the entire community here.
EDITED_BY: JayKitty (1255497717)
EDIT_REASON: I can't spell.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Posted: 13th Oct 2009
thanks for putting it so much better than I was able to, JK

BN - whaddaya know, in the end you might be able to for or become part of an excellent fire troupe, doing gigs, receiving recognition and reward all over the place... or be that giftet, exceptional solo talent everybody is looking up to...

get yourself out there.

Originally Posted By: JKwhat do you have to lose?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 14th Oct 2009
Frederick the reckless does it in one of his videos on youtube... it was decently intense. Giving credit where it is due.

Don't mind me, just passing through.

Posted: 21st Nov 2009
back on thread...............i think?
steve-o from jackass does/did lots of acrobatics whilst fire breathing.
EDITED_BY: tim_marston (1258831730)

Posted: 27th Jan 2010
I think it's possible to work on a butterfly kick with a horizontal wrap in the aim to do a horizontal angel.

I have saw at the ejc in vitoria a chinese twist under a staff.

The barrel roll it's possible with many graps.

I'm thinking about a back straight flip with a vertical staff for support ( that's need to have a short one or jumping hight ) but I don't no if it's really possible :s but it will be a very very great trick

A dynamic acrobatic with a dynamic staff roll is probably impossible because in acrobatic your whole body are required to do the move clean so you can't modified them to do a roll. But with stalls and graps everythings are possible

With solid staff a weight transfert it's possible and so a new kind of acrobatics possibilties are possible ( like the shaolin monks acrobatic on staff )

Posted: 27th Jan 2010
what is a chinese twist? is it a butterfly twist?

Posted: 29th Jan 2010
there is no way you could b-twist during a contact roll. its hard enough holding a stick...

Posted: 29th Jan 2010
i agree! that why i want to know what a chinese twist is!

Posted: 29th Jan 2010
Yeah butterfly twist if you want

Posted: 1st Feb 2010
you could do what is called a "body twist" in wushu, its like spinning your body through a backbend position, with both feet on the ground, so you could hypothetically do a full neckwrap or vertical matrix kinda trick with it.

Posted: 16th Apr 2010
Nop I mean a horizontal twist into a aerial butterfly ( like in wushu or capoiera or extreme martial art )

Posted: 16th Apr 2010
Yesterday I have found a coup-de-pied à la lune ( a oblical gainer i don't know the translation ) on staff

Posted: 13th May 2010
A G Gainer, also called a J step Gainer.....

still dont believe a contact roll while doing a b-twist is possible....

G-Gainer sounds way more plausable, but still rediculous

Posted: 14th May 2010
The "b-twist" is not really a roll... The staff is throwing with the body so you don't touch the staff, you just catch it after.
EDITED_BY: gumop (1273871548)

Posted: 21st May 2010
gumop, that sounds cool man. i'm trying to work towards doing aerial stuff with poi.

tankboy, everything is possible! it just take more practice

Posted: 21st May 2010
No....some things are impossible...