Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > One Handed Trifoil!

Posted: 6th Apr 2009
this sounds truly epic.
would you mind to put up a video?

Posted: 6th Apr 2009
That's what my original plan was until my laptop crashed, the one I'm on now is completley shot! I can't even open my pics folder on this one! But yes, I'll get this figured out! The world must see how ridiculously insane this move really is!

Posted: 6th Apr 2009
My friend Aeons has done it. I think Mike Icon has done it. I heard he can at least do Zan's diamond one handed. I would love to see a video demonstration of it or even a tutorial.

Posted: 6th Apr 2009
really cool move gratz for doing it - it's really hard both trifoil and Zan's diamond (one handed - if anyone has got a vid of those moves upload them please

Posted: 6th Apr 2009
Looks like I'm behind on terminology.

Trifoil as far as I was concerned just meant 3 petals.

Are you speaking of a polyrhythmic BF trifoil antispin hybrid??
(one poi doing trifoil antispin and the other doing extension)

And whats this diamond? Is it the diamond you get when you point isolate the petals in a 4 petal antispin flower?

Posted: 7th Apr 2009
No, Zan's diamond is a pattern created by using a combination of vertical, diagonal, and horizontal linear extensions with the poi in opposite direction, hands same time. He does it in Poi Transmission: Spinning in Arizona at 0:23:


It is vertical up-diagonal left-horizontal right-diagonal up-vertical down-diagonal right-horizontal left-diagonal down.

Yeah, trifoil just means three petals in my world too. They seem to be using an abbreviated reference to the antispin-extension hybrid. Side question, are there any hybrids which are not polyrhythmic?

Posted: 7th Apr 2009
Ahh yes, that thing. That too can be viewed as a series of point isolations. A series of point isos leads to a linear iso. That pattern is fun to think about.

Yeah there are hybrids that arent polyrhythmic.. the first thing to be labelled a hybrid (iso/extension around a unit circle) isn't polyrhythmic.

I have another one that is way too difficult to describe in words thats not polyrhythmic.

That trifoil thing done with a cateye instead of trifoil isnt polyrhythmic either.

Posted: 7th Apr 2009
I try it out, but the only thing I get was an Cateye vs. Extensions Hybrid, I think I have to go out - try it out and put up a video so I could be one of the first doing this

Posted: 7th Apr 2009
check out Alien Jon's unit circle hybrid simulations

Posted: 7th Apr 2009
SwayingDaisies, I want a video demonstration of what you're talking about with the point isolations.

Posted: 7th Apr 2009
DyamiTK, I don't suppose that

would be enough?

Its an extended cateye, but its also point isolated for a moment there. You could claim its a stall from which you come out in the same direction you went in on as well.

The diamond would probably be more easily understood as a series of stalls than point isos.

It IS a linear isolation, you're right and it was different from the linear isolation I was thinking of was this one.

If you look at the video of it drawing the pattern you can actually imagine the diamond coming into being... just imagine that the point isolation continues for an extra quarter of a beat or so, meaning that it will come across the centre.

From there you can do a cateye extension and send it straight back or you can lapse back into the 'astroid' pattern which would create the diamond if you were to add the extra quarter of a beat at the next point in the diamond.



HAH! I only just realised you called me by my Youtube name.
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009
Ah ha, perfect! we are having a terminology conflusteration. What the Alien is calling a linear isolation in that video, Mr. PineapplePeat calls a line isolation -


I suppose they are both linear isolations but I think of a linear isolation more specifically as the hands moving in a line and the poi heads moving in that weird ellipse pattern that linear head isolations make. Where as the "line isolation" as in Jon's video you posted is the other way around.

That is besides the point. What Zan is doing are not linear isolations at all, they are linear extensions. This is what Zan is doing:

The line/linear head isolation like your are talking about are a totally different effect.

If you go back to Alien Jon's Unit Circle Grid:

, a vertical linear extension is the second point, horizontal linear isolation is the fourth point, vertical linear extension is the sixth point and horizontal linear extension is the eighth point.

Now watch Zan's Dimond again keeping in mind that is is a pattern created by combining vertical, horizontal, and diagonal linear extensions:

He does at the 0:23 min mark with a nice graphic over it.

When you figure out how to make a diamond pattern with linear point isolations I expect a video.

you can just call me dyami.

Posted: 8th Apr 2009
and dude, your asteroid thing is really just a antispin because the hand is moving in a circle not a line. it is deceptive because there are no petals and our poi brains get confused.

Side note, in a linear (hand) isolation there is a moment of point isolation but in what I and Pineapple refer to as line isolation or rather a linear head isolation that same point isolation moves rather then being static as with a true full point isolation where the head becomes completely static and the hand moves (really fast) in a full 360 circle around it.
EDITED_BY: DyamiTK (1239218141)
EDIT_REASON: spellling

Posted: 8th Apr 2009
Hi, Dyami, this is going to be a fairly rambly post... actually I know it is because I've already written it, so sorry about that.

Further misunderstandings! Should be cleared after this post, I hope.

Watch the head in Jons video, thats what I was referring to more than the hand, but I see how with my error on Zans Diamond you could get that idea, the same effect can be done as an extended cateye, which is what petes line isos are about.

You're right about Zans diamond, I hadnt watched it properly and presumed it was similar to the line isos I've been playing with. The pattern over the top made me think he was doing something else... and it IS possible... petes got a demonstration of part of it in the vid you linked to.

#t=2m0s If you repeat that SAME pattern by doing it in the top left then you'll get the next part of your diamond.

Originally Posted By: DyamiTKand dude, your asteroid thing is really just a antispin because the hand is moving in a circle not a line. it is deceptive because there are no petals and our poi brains get confused.

The one demonstrated isnt quite a line iso, but it can be done as a line iso with more perfect quarter point isolations, its about the poi moving on a line... which as you can see it is, its creating a box!

#t=0m20s there it is done in butterfly. (poorly... but with light it doesnt matter because the heads are big enough to cover up the slight deviations)

Watch petes vid again... his hands move on a cateye in most of them which is a 1:1 ratio(1 revolution of the poi:1 revolution of the arm/hand) antispin pattern.

The asteroid is simply a line isolated 3:1 ratio antispin pattern. It just makes 4 seperate line isolations to create a single pattern. They move along a line rather than trace a loop, do they not?

And earlier I was referring to quarter turns of point iso, to send it back along the same line you'd use a half turn of point iso.

Posted: 9th Apr 2009
Phew! that is a lot of information to visualize and my familiarity with cat-eyes and linear head isolation patterns is still fuzzy. I think the broader class of movement we are uncovering here are various ways of tracing diamond patterns, and I will definitely be playing around with that concept some more.

Yes, I follow now what you are talking about with your point isolation diamond. That asteroid thing misled me. That is a cool pattern, some of my friends here in Santa Cruz will get a kick out of that. It's also great because the joke at FireDrums after Zan taught us all his diamond was that in poi, squares are the new circles.

we kind of hijacked the One Handed Trifoil thread... should we maybe and is there any easy way to move this to more of a Linear Isolation discussion thread?

Posted: 9th Apr 2009
Its nothing new, really, its just another way of seeing the line isos that have been 'floating' around for a little while now.



Yeah, we did stray slightly off topic, hey?

Theres this thread here [Old link]

That looks to actually be pretty good and i dont think we REALLY uncovered much here that hadnt already been discussed there.

Posted: 13th Apr 2009
I found a vid with the move on it! Check out the vids section of the site and look up 'Mel tech poi'. It's called me and my shadow. This dude is sick with the tech poi! He does the move at around 9:54 into the video. Enjoi!

Posted: 16th Apr 2009
I'm playing with triquetras now and I still couldn't figure out how to make a perfect one. I can execute the move but when I try to get a picture of it either the circle is too big or the 3 petal flower is in the far right side or sometimes in the far left and sometimes the circle is too small. My left hand is doing the big circle (long arm, however you call it) going clockwise and the right hand is the one doing the 3 petal antispin. I mean, everytime, the pic is just messy. hehehe!

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!

Posted: 16th Apr 2009
Try learning to change directions and do it both reverse and forwards butterfly.

That'll help out your spatial awareness a bit.

Posted: 17th Apr 2009
Alright thanks!

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!

Posted: 17th Apr 2009
I think if you want to make a "perfect" triquetra, you need to keep your hands next to touching the whole time (hands same time).
And I agree that the coordination of being able to go all four direction variations will help (overhand CW, overhand CCW, underhand CW, underhand CCW). Being able to do the hand same time, poi opposite direction CAP will help too:

.

Posted: 17th Apr 2009
CW? CCW? not that good with abbreviations...

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!

Posted: 17th Apr 2009
Clockwise, counter clockwise. He's referring to the way your arms go.

Also, try doing it poi going same direction and ARMS going in opposites. You can then use it to go into the original iso-extension hybrid by changing the direction of one arm (Easiest if you put your hands together at the bottom have them go up the sides and when the reach the top change direction then.) as well as any other same direction hybrid you care to think of.

Posted: 18th Apr 2009
There you go. Will try that one out. Thanks much!

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!

Posted: 28th Apr 2009
Hey MNS, is that the one on your Cateye, ISO extension video? I'm using Alien's CAP's as reference for the poi rotations and use your video as my hand reference. Everything's doing good now. I can manipulate one CAP to another CAP and link it into the triquetra. Thanks for the tips you guys.

By the way, when you say One handed Trifoil? What do you mean? Is it like a one hand/single poi 3 petal anti-spi flower? Or one hand/2 poi doing triquetra? Coz that would be freaking awesome!

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!

Posted: 28th Apr 2009
you can see that trick on Melancholic new vid - it's in the video area

2 poi in one hand, one big wheel secound one 3 petal antispin

Posted: 28th Apr 2009
Nope, in that one arms move same direction and so do the poi.

The one I referred to was arms opposite, poi same direction, one antispin, one prospin.

Posted: 29th Apr 2009
I think I do that one from time to time. It feels cool.

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 29th Apr 2009
Oh you mean like this?

Tam tam tam cheketitamtam, ketumpantam, ketumpan kete kete kete, tam tam tam ketumpanketey!

Posted: 29th Apr 2009
Yep! You can do it with any number of beats of either hand with different polyrhythms.
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