Forums > Social Discussion > Shows on the Morbidly Obese
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the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
There have been some shows on Discovery/TLC/whatever lately about people who are well beyond the realm of morbid obesity. You know the ones. They're 700+lbs, can't walk, haven't been out of their homes in who knows how long.
Now, last night the show was displaying how much they eat. It was, at best, repulsive. Everything was junk or fried or both. I like those foods, sure, but damn. One man had a long table filled with greasy, nasty food. I mean FILLED. He ate in a day what a normal man should eat in a week! They were trying to make a point to him about how much he eats and instead he looked the mountain of food over and said "That's half or a quarter what I used to eat. That ain't much." He then pulled the table up to him and started gorging himself.
There were a few things that really struck us as we watched it.
One man hadn't been out of his bed/chair thingy in 10 years! I've been sick here for a few days and being stuck in place sucks rocks. I couldn't imagine more than a week, max. And I mean, he doesn't even go to the bathroom because he's so big. I'd go nuts.
Next thing that struck us was the fact that people continue to feed these people this crap. I know that they all said they order in food alot. One, who lives on the 5th floor apartment, said when his family isn't around he orders in and has a bucket-rope system outside his window. Money goes down in the bucket, the food comes up. WTF???? Board up the window, take away the phone (leave them with a phone that only allows for 911 access), give them a salad and water. What are they going to do, beat the person if they don't like it? I don't think so. Why the hell would anyone feed these people this crap? Wouldn't that be akin to manslaughter if they die?
And last, and this one pissed me off the most, these people are living on state aid because they are too heavy to work. There was one in England who has a care giver 12 hours a day provided by Social Services. That ticks me off. They can't control what they eat, they don't want to or even try and they drain public funds or take care givers who should go to someone who really needs it. And when the caregiver is gone for the night, and the guy was left with the phone, he ordered delivery junk food anyway...completely undermining the care givers work.
These weren't people who have any medical issues that cause the obesity. There were no thyroid issues or anything like that, they simply overeat. Which, now that I think about it, the show didn't mention anything about them receiving psychological care, which I think they also need.
I know depression can do crazy things to people but it seems to me that while these people are making their choices, that the people who care about them are failing them by not helping.
Thoughts?
There have been some shows on Discovery/TLC/whatever lately about people who are well beyond the realm of morbid obesity. You know the ones. They're 700+lbs, can't walk, haven't been out of their homes in who knows how long.
Now, last night the show was displaying how much they eat. It was, at best, repulsive. Everything was junk or fried or both. I like those foods, sure, but damn. One man had a long table filled with greasy, nasty food. I mean FILLED. He ate in a day what a normal man should eat in a week! They were trying to make a point to him about how much he eats and instead he looked the mountain of food over and said "That's half or a quarter what I used to eat. That ain't much." He then pulled the table up to him and started gorging himself.
There were a few things that really struck us as we watched it.
One man hadn't been out of his bed/chair thingy in 10 years! I've been sick here for a few days and being stuck in place sucks rocks. I couldn't imagine more than a week, max. And I mean, he doesn't even go to the bathroom because he's so big. I'd go nuts.
Next thing that struck us was the fact that people continue to feed these people this crap. I know that they all said they order in food alot. One, who lives on the 5th floor apartment, said when his family isn't around he orders in and has a bucket-rope system outside his window. Money goes down in the bucket, the food comes up. WTF???? Board up the window, take away the phone (leave them with a phone that only allows for 911 access), give them a salad and water. What are they going to do, beat the person if they don't like it? I don't think so. Why the hell would anyone feed these people this crap? Wouldn't that be akin to manslaughter if they die?
And last, and this one pissed me off the most, these people are living on state aid because they are too heavy to work. There was one in England who has a care giver 12 hours a day provided by Social Services. That ticks me off. They can't control what they eat, they don't want to or even try and they drain public funds or take care givers who should go to someone who really needs it. And when the caregiver is gone for the night, and the guy was left with the phone, he ordered delivery junk food anyway...completely undermining the care givers work.
These weren't people who have any medical issues that cause the obesity. There were no thyroid issues or anything like that, they simply overeat. Which, now that I think about it, the show didn't mention anything about them receiving psychological care, which I think they also need.
I know depression can do crazy things to people but it seems to me that while these people are making their choices, that the people who care about them are failing them by not helping.
Thoughts?
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Would starving them not be akin to torture?
It's an addiction, but it's at least partially genetic and engrained in our code to crave high fat foods. Remember for the vast vast majority of the time humans have been on this planet, food has been scarce. Protein in the wild is not all that hard to come by. Fat is an entirely different matter and it's something we must have.
I completely agree though, starve them out, they're only that large because they refuse to help themselves, and others refuse to make them.
Would starving them not be akin to torture?
It's an addiction, but it's at least partially genetic and engrained in our code to crave high fat foods. Remember for the vast vast majority of the time humans have been on this planet, food has been scarce. Protein in the wild is not all that hard to come by. Fat is an entirely different matter and it's something we must have. I completely agree though, starve them out, they're only that large because they refuse to help themselves, and others refuse to make them.
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Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I'm not saying starve them, but control them. Take away their connections to those high fat foods and replace them with healthy alternatives.
Don't give the 1000 pound man a gallon of soda but instead give him water.
Don't give the 600 pound lady the big bag of m&m's but give her a salad.
I think for the "care givers" it is mainly having to steel themselves against the inevitable verbal assault that they would get from denying them. I admit that would be hard to take from a loved one, as would the begging and pleading. But I'd rather have them pissed, pleading and alive than dead.
I would guess that watching Mum or Jr. begging and then screaming would make it hard to refuse, maybe? But then again, I'm a b!tch so I don't think it would be hard for me to stand that ground.
I'm not saying starve them, but control them. Take away their connections to those high fat foods and replace them with healthy alternatives.
Don't give the 1000 pound man a gallon of soda but instead give him water.
Don't give the 600 pound lady the big bag of m&m's but give her a salad.
I think for the "care givers" it is mainly having to steel themselves against the inevitable verbal assault that they would get from denying them. I admit that would be hard to take from a loved one, as would the begging and pleading. But I'd rather have them pissed, pleading and alive than dead.
I would guess that watching Mum or Jr. begging and then screaming would make it hard to refuse, maybe? But then again, I'm a b!tch so I don't think it would be hard for me to stand that ground.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
old hand
929 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Well I think you took my 'starve them out' a bit too literal. And no doubt there are bound to be some health complications from going from masses of excess food to "normal" quantities. But I would say that someone who lets themself get to that point is not operating at a 'sound and rational' level anymore
Well I think you took my 'starve them out' a bit too literal. And no doubt there are bound to be some health complications from going from masses of excess food to "normal" quantities. But I would say that someone who lets themself get to that point is not operating at a 'sound and rational' level anymore
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BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I'm not defending relatives who feed 600 pound not leaving their bed ever people even more greasy food. But it's a co-dependancy. Like an abused partner staying with the abusive part, or someone closing both eyes on the stacks of bottles of their alcoholic family member.
A carer is the wrong kind of help, but WITHOUT the carer the person would be just as fat AND suffering from lying on the same spot all day and night because they'll probably not even turn over enough on their own.
But as with every kind of addiction, the person has to WANT to stop it, AND receive the right kind of support from family and professionals.
What doesn't help in my opinion is tv stations making money by showing them off. That's one reason why I stopped watching tv, I can't stand all the reality shows that only exist because some people don't realise that they make themselves the laughing stock of the world.
I'm not defending relatives who feed 600 pound not leaving their bed ever people even more greasy food. But it's a co-dependancy. Like an abused partner staying with the abusive part, or someone closing both eyes on the stacks of bottles of their alcoholic family member.
A carer is the wrong kind of help, but WITHOUT the carer the person would be just as fat AND suffering from lying on the same spot all day and night because they'll probably not even turn over enough on their own.
But as with every kind of addiction, the person has to WANT to stop it, AND receive the right kind of support from family and professionals.
What doesn't help in my opinion is tv stations making money by showing them off. That's one reason why I stopped watching tv, I can't stand all the reality shows that only exist because some people don't realise that they make themselves the laughing stock of the world.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
You're right that it is a co-dependency. It's why I mentioned psychological care, and I think it should go as far as to the family. You're right.
These people could move on their own. A couple of them could even take the 25 steps it took to get to the kitchen (not the guy in England though), so they could roll over. Which means the care givers take on even less importance but more of a dependency role.
This wasn't a reality show in that sense at all. It was more of an exploration into the medical nature of it. They did some really great explainations of what happens inside the body when this happens. It was really very enlightening.
Written by: Birgit
I'm not defending relatives who feed 600 pound not leaving their bed ever people even more greasy food. But it's a co-dependancy. Like an abused partner staying with the abusive part, or someone closing both eyes on the stacks of bottles of their alcoholic family member.
A carer is the wrong kind of help, but WITHOUT the carer the person would be just as fat AND suffering from lying on the same spot all day and night because they'll probably not even turn over enough on their own.
But as with every kind of addiction, the person has to WANT to stop it, AND receive the right kind of support from family and professionals.
What doesn't help in my opinion is tv stations making money by showing them off. That's one reason why I stopped watching tv, I can't stand all the reality shows that only exist because some people don't realise that they make themselves the laughing stock of the world.
You're right that it is a co-dependency. It's why I mentioned psychological care, and I think it should go as far as to the family. You're right.
These people could move on their own. A couple of them could even take the 25 steps it took to get to the kitchen (not the guy in England though), so they could roll over. Which means the care givers take on even less importance but more of a dependency role.
This wasn't a reality show in that sense at all. It was more of an exploration into the medical nature of it. They did some really great explainations of what happens inside the body when this happens. It was really very enlightening.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Birgit voiced most of my feelings too.
If there are loved ones involved in the cycle of feeding, then obviously they require just as much psychological treatment as the obese person themselves.
While it hard to view the thinner people who feed the obese people as victims, I cannot see it any other way.
They are just as trapped by their own issues or those the obese person has put upon them otherwise, they simply wouldn't be doing it.
Everyone is a victim in these situations, so instead of apportioning blame, lets get help for all involved, including those who do the feeding...
In my opinion, of course...
Birgit voiced most of my feelings too.
If there are loved ones involved in the cycle of feeding, then obviously they require just as much psychological treatment as the obese person themselves.
While it hard to view the thinner people who feed the obese people as victims, I cannot see it any other way.
They are just as trapped by their own issues or those the obese person has put upon them otherwise, they simply wouldn't be doing it.
Everyone is a victim in these situations, so instead of apportioning blame, lets get help for all involved, including those who do the feeding...
In my opinion, of course...
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BRONZE Member
Member
78 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Member
78 posts
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posted:
i totally agree with what you're saying about loved ones/family members, there was a fairly high profile case in ireland recently about an 8year old boy who was something like 14 stone, obviously not as serious as some of the 700lb stories you've mentioned, but still a crazy amount for a child to weigh.
basically, the child was about to be taken into care because his mother wasnt able to stop feeding him.
when a child is that young, i think the majority of the blame has to be laid at the foot of their parents, by eating so much at 8yrs old he was only doing what he'd been brought up to do and didnt know any better
i totally agree with what you're saying about loved ones/family members, there was a fairly high profile case in ireland recently about an 8year old boy who was something like 14 stone, obviously not as serious as some of the 700lb stories you've mentioned, but still a crazy amount for a child to weigh.
basically, the child was about to be taken into care because his mother wasnt able to stop feeding him.
when a child is that young, i think the majority of the blame has to be laid at the foot of their parents, by eating so much at 8yrs old he was only doing what he'd been brought up to do and didnt know any better
Good Ol' Yarn For Hair
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
422 posts
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posted:
.... on a side note, and pardon my ignorance.... what exactly is a stone?
As in.... "8year old boy who was something like 14 stone."
???
.... on a side note, and pardon my ignorance.... what exactly is a stone?
As in.... "8year old boy who was something like 14 stone."
???
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
1 stone = 14 pounds
Written by: Kathain_Bowen
.... on a side note, and pardon my ignorance.... what exactly is a stone?
As in.... "8year old boy who was something like 14 stone."
???
1 stone = 14 pounds
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
member
78 posts
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
member
78 posts
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Posted:
I have a 3 yr old and I seriously think parents need more control over what their kid eats.
My daughter is perfect weight, she eats better than anyone in my house. Every so often she can have crap food, but I can ask her "Lily, do you want apples or cheetos?" 90% of the time shell say apples. She loves fruit, healthy meat, soup, and veggies. She has VERY good eating habits.
I think if parents instilled good eating values early... they would help their kids out in the long run.
and people who are too big on disability cause of it... yeah not good. Grrrr.
I have a 3 yr old and I seriously think parents need more control over what their kid eats.
My daughter is perfect weight, she eats better than anyone in my house. Every so often she can have crap food, but I can ask her "Lily, do you want apples or cheetos?" 90% of the time shell say apples. She loves fruit, healthy meat, soup, and veggies. She has VERY good eating habits.
I think if parents instilled good eating values early... they would help their kids out in the long run.
and people who are too big on disability cause of it... yeah not good. Grrrr.
GOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
Posted:
One thing that really gets me, over in England at the moment the obesity thing is quite big at the moment mainly becuase there has been a few publicly recgonised obese children and all the mum's say is.....'I've tried everything'. No you havent, to try everything is to look the kid in their room with a salad, to stop buying them crap.
This one mother says she can't control her kids weight and has tried 'everything', she gives him pocket money which he spends on sweets at school or at takeaway....erm how about not giving him pocket money?
She spnds almost 100 pounds EXTRA a week on sweets and fatty foods since the kid won't eat anything else, and if she doesn't buy them he 'kicks and screams'. Lady your killing your child, kicking and screaming is going to be the last of your worries. In the end children adapt, it's only out of habit he's eating this crap. He'll kick and scream for a week then he'll be eating fruit and salad.
Just really gets on my nerves how the parents are, at that age a child cannot be responsible for what he or she eats.
The responsibility falls on the parents to raise them well, nutrition included.
One thing that really gets me, over in England at the moment the obesity thing is quite big at the moment mainly becuase there has been a few publicly recgonised obese children and all the mum's say is.....'I've tried everything'. No you havent, to try everything is to look the kid in their room with a salad, to stop buying them crap.
This one mother says she can't control her kids weight and has tried 'everything', she gives him pocket money which he spends on sweets at school or at takeaway....erm how about not giving him pocket money?
She spnds almost 100 pounds EXTRA a week on sweets and fatty foods since the kid won't eat anything else, and if she doesn't buy them he 'kicks and screams'. Lady your killing your child, kicking and screaming is going to be the last of your worries. In the end children adapt, it's only out of habit he's eating this crap. He'll kick and scream for a week then he'll be eating fruit and salad.
Just really gets on my nerves how the parents are, at that age a child cannot be responsible for what he or she eats.
The responsibility falls on the parents to raise them well, nutrition included.
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind
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BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Parenting is a job that tends to look alot easier from the outside however parents who let their kids get that big are abusing them in my opinion. Hell we cant afford financially to fend ourselves that much junk.
Mind you if all three of my kids ate fruit like the middle child our fruit bill would be extortionate. He eats 5-9 peices a day, more if its favourite fruit. The other two will only eat fruit under duress.
Not givng good boundaries in the childs life , with food, with tantrums leads to a harder life later.
Parenting is a job that tends to look alot easier from the outside however parents who let their kids get that big are abusing them in my opinion. Hell we cant afford financially to fend ourselves that much junk.
Mind you if all three of my kids ate fruit like the middle child our fruit bill would be extortionate. He eats 5-9 peices a day, more if its favourite fruit. The other two will only eat fruit under duress.
Not givng good boundaries in the childs life , with food, with tantrums leads to a harder life later.
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the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
The whole "They'll pitch a fit." excuse, whether about adults or children, bugs the hell out of me.
Noah went to PWB's work with him one day and got hungry. PWB said "I have a banana." Noah didn't want it (I think he was trying to get something from a vending machine). When PWB wouldn't get the food from the vending machine and Noah got hungry enough, he ate the banana.
That is true for *anyone*.
Somewhere someone has to take control, and I *don't* think it is the governments responsibility.
The whole "They'll pitch a fit." excuse, whether about adults or children, bugs the hell out of me.
Noah went to PWB's work with him one day and got hungry. PWB said "I have a banana." Noah didn't want it (I think he was trying to get something from a vending machine). When PWB wouldn't get the food from the vending machine and Noah got hungry enough, he ate the banana.
That is true for *anyone*.
Somewhere someone has to take control, and I *don't* think it is the governments responsibility.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
My thoughts on this are that these people have their own rights to do whatever they like. If they want to stuff themselves with food to the point of near-death, then that's their choice.
The same way a heroin addict chooses to pick up that needle and inject.
Sure they can ask for help if they want it and are struggling to get their lives back in order, but it's their lives, it's their bodies. They can do whatever they want.
My thoughts on this are that these people have their own rights to do whatever they like. If they want to stuff themselves with food to the point of near-death, then that's their choice.
The same way a heroin addict chooses to pick up that needle and inject.
Sure they can ask for help if they want it and are struggling to get their lives back in order, but it's their lives, it's their bodies. They can do whatever they want.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Even if *your* money, your hard earned tax money, goes to pay for their care and their food instead of going to other places where it can be of more service?
Yes, people can do what they want with their bodies, except that when it hits an extreme so that it is a drain on resources.
Written by: jo_rhymes
My thoughts on this are that these people have their own rights to do whatever they like. If they want to stuff themselves with food to the point of near-death, then that's their choice.
The same way a heroin addict chooses to pick up that needle and inject.
Sure they can ask for help if they want it and are struggling to get their lives back in order, but it's their lives, it's their bodies. They can do whatever they want.
Even if *your* money, your hard earned tax money, goes to pay for their care and their food instead of going to other places where it can be of more service?
Yes, people can do what they want with their bodies, except that when it hits an extreme so that it is a drain on resources.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Well, using that logic Pele, I could then discriminate against all smokers and all alcoholics, and everyone who doesn't lead a healthy life eating good food and partaking in regular exercise.
Well, using that logic Pele, I could then discriminate against all smokers and all alcoholics, and everyone who doesn't lead a healthy life eating good food and partaking in regular exercise.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
I don't know smokers or alcoholics who use my taxes to support their habits, and since those things can be completely quit whereas food can not, it's really like comparing apples to oranges.
*nothing to do with Jo*
I was talking about this elsewhere and it was pointed out to me that sometimes the "caregivers" want the people to stay large because of the codependency and when the obese one takes the initiative to get better, the caregivers will turn verbally and sometimes physically abusive to maintain their control.
I seriously hadn't even thought of that.
It is really scary and screwed up.
Written by: jo_rhymes
Well, using that logic Pele, I could then discriminate against all smokers and all alcoholics, and everyone who doesn't lead a healthy life eating good food and partaking in regular exercise.
I don't know smokers or alcoholics who use my taxes to support their habits, and since those things can be completely quit whereas food can not, it's really like comparing apples to oranges.
*nothing to do with Jo*
I was talking about this elsewhere and it was pointed out to me that sometimes the "caregivers" want the people to stay large because of the codependency and when the obese one takes the initiative to get better, the caregivers will turn verbally and sometimes physically abusive to maintain their control.
I seriously hadn't even thought of that.
It is really scary and screwed up.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
You clearly have a better class of politician in your world then!
Actually Pele, I think Jo's analogy is from the point of view of a places where the society chooses to offer free medical treatment and social support for people whose illnesses/disability/need results from what are called 'lifestyle choices/desires/addictions', not only the 'worthy' or 'deserving'.
So this includes alcoholics who end up with brain damage, (as well as firemen with brain damage from their work) surfers or skiers with broken backs (as well as people run down by cars)or unmarried women who have children through unprotected sex or even artificial means (not only widows.) In other words, supporting people because they are a member of our society, not because they are, in our interpretation, 'deserving'.
Many people disagree with this even within the societies where it is the dominant thinking. But that is why some people might not be as aghast about it as you are, Pele. Or why they may have a different attitude than 'they have no right to state aid/my hard earned/taxpayers money'
Many people in 'social welfare' oriented states, such as UK or Oz think that any of us may need support at some time in our lives. So it is in all our interests to have such support available, even if other people do like like/understand the situation we are in. So it probably would seem a worse thing to someone like Jo, to 'discriminate' around such support, than to support someone whose choice/desire/addiction was different to her own.
So far as such people draining the public coffers. Well, my Govt has lots of money wasting strategies that I disagree with more than supporting a handful of sad addicts. I am more concerned about eg the erosion of our public service through the high fees paid to unaccountable private consultants. Or lots of money for nuclear energy 'feasibility research' being paid to the Prime Minister's cronies. Or Guantanamo type torture centres being built on offshore island under our 'protection'.
Sometimes though I have had to eventually agree with 'wasting money'. In recent example of 'wasting taxpayers money', the Oz navy spent many millions of dollars to rescue a lone person in a yacht when he got into trouble in dreadful seas, going too far south as part of a round the world race. My initial attitude was, what an idiot, what a stupid git, he knew the odds, let him drown. Let these egocentric 'adventurers' do something useful rather than risking other's lives getting them through a pointless race. But then I heard the the navy commander who had to go on the mission say "I would hate to think we didn't help someone just because it costs money. What if someone thought that about me" I had to bow my head and realise I had been nasty. They did not "waste my money".
The other way to see it is they invested it in a decent and inclusive ethos that ultimately is to my benefit to support.
Written by: Pele
I don't know smokers or alcoholics who use my taxes to support their habits,
You clearly have a better class of politician in your world then!
Actually Pele, I think Jo's analogy is from the point of view of a places where the society chooses to offer free medical treatment and social support for people whose illnesses/disability/need results from what are called 'lifestyle choices/desires/addictions', not only the 'worthy' or 'deserving'.
So this includes alcoholics who end up with brain damage, (as well as firemen with brain damage from their work) surfers or skiers with broken backs (as well as people run down by cars)or unmarried women who have children through unprotected sex or even artificial means (not only widows.) In other words, supporting people because they are a member of our society, not because they are, in our interpretation, 'deserving'.
Many people disagree with this even within the societies where it is the dominant thinking. But that is why some people might not be as aghast about it as you are, Pele. Or why they may have a different attitude than 'they have no right to state aid/my hard earned/taxpayers money'
Many people in 'social welfare' oriented states, such as UK or Oz think that any of us may need support at some time in our lives. So it is in all our interests to have such support available, even if other people do like like/understand the situation we are in. So it probably would seem a worse thing to someone like Jo, to 'discriminate' around such support, than to support someone whose choice/desire/addiction was different to her own.
So far as such people draining the public coffers. Well, my Govt has lots of money wasting strategies that I disagree with more than supporting a handful of sad addicts. I am more concerned about eg the erosion of our public service through the high fees paid to unaccountable private consultants. Or lots of money for nuclear energy 'feasibility research' being paid to the Prime Minister's cronies. Or Guantanamo type torture centres being built on offshore island under our 'protection'.
Sometimes though I have had to eventually agree with 'wasting money'. In recent example of 'wasting taxpayers money', the Oz navy spent many millions of dollars to rescue a lone person in a yacht when he got into trouble in dreadful seas, going too far south as part of a round the world race. My initial attitude was, what an idiot, what a stupid git, he knew the odds, let him drown. Let these egocentric 'adventurers' do something useful rather than risking other's lives getting them through a pointless race. But then I heard the the navy commander who had to go on the mission say "I would hate to think we didn't help someone just because it costs money. What if someone thought that about me" I had to bow my head and realise I had been nasty. They did not "waste my money".
The other way to see it is they invested it in a decent and inclusive ethos that ultimately is to my benefit to support.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
you plank
smokers and alcoholics take up so many resources more than obese people pele, first it takes a lot to get them to admitt their addiction, then it's the cold turky treatment, then months or years of counciling and even then they can still revert back.
Written by: PeleWritten by: jo_rhymes
Well, using that logic Pele, I could then discriminate against all smokers and all alcoholics, and everyone who doesn't lead a healthy life eating good food and partaking in regular exercise.
I don't know smokers or alcoholics who use my taxes to support their habits.
you plank
smokers and alcoholics take up so many resources more than obese people pele, first it takes a lot to get them to admitt their addiction, then it's the cold turky treatment, then months or years of counciling and even then they can still revert back. Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
A slightly meandering point from the main one, but as we were talking about obese children and getting them to eat healthy, it is not always true that children will eat healthy food when they're hungry if its the only thing available. If they're obese this is less of a problem... and if there is a wide *range* of healthy food available something should work out...
But I distinctly remember starving myself rather than eating particular types of food when I was younger. I was a perfectly normal/ slightly underweight, and my mother served nothing but lentils and swiss chard for about a week, and if I didn't eat it I didn't get any other food. Obviously I still got one meal a day at school (standard school lunch) and I was PERFECTLY happy not to eat at all otherwise if I could just not eat lentils and swiss chard. For eight days. Which isn't healthy. Kids don't always give in to specifics, and sadly not all parents are capable of flexible plans that still accomplish exactly what they need to.
How could we change that? I'm thinking this might go under the same psychological counselling as caregivers for obese adults, just that its more urgent and there's probably more mentally tied up with these parents. Seriously, how does one teach them ... well... not to kill their children?
A slightly meandering point from the main one, but as we were talking about obese children and getting them to eat healthy, it is not always true that children will eat healthy food when they're hungry if its the only thing available. If they're obese this is less of a problem... and if there is a wide *range* of healthy food available something should work out...
But I distinctly remember starving myself rather than eating particular types of food when I was younger. I was a perfectly normal/ slightly underweight, and my mother served nothing but lentils and swiss chard for about a week, and if I didn't eat it I didn't get any other food. Obviously I still got one meal a day at school (standard school lunch) and I was PERFECTLY happy not to eat at all otherwise if I could just not eat lentils and swiss chard. For eight days. Which isn't healthy. Kids don't always give in to specifics, and sadly not all parents are capable of flexible plans that still accomplish exactly what they need to.
How could we change that? I'm thinking this might go under the same psychological counselling as caregivers for obese adults, just that its more urgent and there's probably more mentally tied up with these parents. Seriously, how does one teach them ... well... not to kill their children?
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
sorry you didn't understand my point Pele.
My point is this, smokers may end up with lung cancer, heart problems, which YOUR HARD EARNED TAXES pay for the treatment of.
Same with anyone who isn't taking care of their health and wellbeing.
My point is that I could discriminate ANYONE who has made a bad lifestyle choice that has affected their health, and is now receiving treatment paid for by taxpayers.
I hope that's cleared that up!
However, I don't discriminate against the morbidly obese, smokers or alcoholics who are damaging their bodies and may end up using hard earned taxpayers money to pay for their treatment.
sorry you didn't understand my point Pele.
My point is this, smokers may end up with lung cancer, heart problems, which YOUR HARD EARNED TAXES pay for the treatment of.
Same with anyone who isn't taking care of their health and wellbeing.
My point is that I could discriminate ANYONE who has made a bad lifestyle choice that has affected their health, and is now receiving treatment paid for by taxpayers.
I hope that's cleared that up!
However, I don't discriminate against the morbidly obese, smokers or alcoholics who are damaging their bodies and may end up using hard earned taxpayers money to pay for their treatment.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
And here in the US, they don't use tax money to pay for their diseases. If you are a smoker or an alcoholic, there are even limitations to the insurances you are allowed, or you have to pay extra because you are at greater risk.
They are starting to implement the same things for those who are morbidly obese.
I agree with it because I do know people who have stopped smoking to get cheaper rates. I do know people who were inspired to change their lives because of it.
I don't view it as discrimination at all, but more as a much needed tough love approach.
And as someone who has worked for a long time as a life/weight loss coach for others, including the morbily obese, I know that this approach is very often needed. Though admittedly, my clients come to me for help, so they are in the proper mentality to accept help by the time they get to me.
And I maintain that I still think it is apples to oranges since people can quit the other but not quit food.
Kyrian, I chose not to eat stuff when I was a kid as well, with no other options. BUT, we had lunch earlier so it wasn't a big deal. If you offer someone nothing else all day for days on end, I do think it would have a different impact.
I think one of the biggest issues in all of this is not with the obese people but with the caregivers and making them realize that they are being destructive and not helpful. My guess is that they would fight the change harder than the obese person.
And here in the US, they don't use tax money to pay for their diseases. If you are a smoker or an alcoholic, there are even limitations to the insurances you are allowed, or you have to pay extra because you are at greater risk.
They are starting to implement the same things for those who are morbidly obese.
I agree with it because I do know people who have stopped smoking to get cheaper rates. I do know people who were inspired to change their lives because of it.
I don't view it as discrimination at all, but more as a much needed tough love approach.
And as someone who has worked for a long time as a life/weight loss coach for others, including the morbily obese, I know that this approach is very often needed. Though admittedly, my clients come to me for help, so they are in the proper mentality to accept help by the time they get to me.
And I maintain that I still think it is apples to oranges since people can quit the other but not quit food.
Kyrian, I chose not to eat stuff when I was a kid as well, with no other options. BUT, we had lunch earlier so it wasn't a big deal. If you offer someone nothing else all day for days on end, I do think it would have a different impact.
I think one of the biggest issues in all of this is not with the obese people but with the caregivers and making them realize that they are being destructive and not helpful. My guess is that they would fight the change harder than the obese person.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
I still think Personal Responsibility is the best measure.
In many of the cases the obese people are described as having an addiction to food. One woman described it as getting a dizzying high, and that she would get almost euphoric when eating.
I think the health risks that are connected to obesity are enough of a repellent to make people go on a diet, let alone the physical unattractiveness. Diabetes, cardio problems, weak knees, arthritis... which is why I think that people who are morbidly obese genuinely are psychologically, and probably physically addicted to food.
I think the best approach is to offer these people help, solutions on how to try to lose weight and to improve their lifestyles.
To lock them in a room with water and a salad is just going to make them more depressed.
I gained 3stone about 3 years ago when I was really depressed because food was the only thing that still gave me enjoyment. Everything else, music, friends, tv, all just left me numb. I can completely relate to people who use food as a drug.
They need to be shown alternatives, not demonised because they are using up precious money.
I still think Personal Responsibility is the best measure.
In many of the cases the obese people are described as having an addiction to food. One woman described it as getting a dizzying high, and that she would get almost euphoric when eating.
I think the health risks that are connected to obesity are enough of a repellent to make people go on a diet, let alone the physical unattractiveness. Diabetes, cardio problems, weak knees, arthritis... which is why I think that people who are morbidly obese genuinely are psychologically, and probably physically addicted to food.
I think the best approach is to offer these people help, solutions on how to try to lose weight and to improve their lifestyles.
To lock them in a room with water and a salad is just going to make them more depressed.
I gained 3stone about 3 years ago when I was really depressed because food was the only thing that still gave me enjoyment. Everything else, music, friends, tv, all just left me numb. I can completely relate to people who use food as a drug.
They need to be shown alternatives, not demonised because they are using up precious money.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Nobody is demonizing them. I have mentioned that they should get counselling, so please stop reading into my words.
The health risks for them are *not* enough motivation. Otherwise they wouldn't get as large as they do. The health risks for many don't even register because their dependency is so far gone.
Also, as for the physical attractiveness, that is purely subjective. There are *alot* of people in the world who find heavy, even morbidly obese, to be very attractive and even out and out gorgeous. That is part of the problem with some of the caregivers in fact. I was talking elsewhere online with someone from Oz who said he saw a show about those who find the m.o. to be very attractive to the point where they were compromising the health of the people they loved.
Written by: jo_rhymes
I still think Personal Responsibility is the best measure.
In many of the cases the obese people are described as having an addiction to food. One woman described it as getting a dizzying high, and that she would get almost euphoric when eating.
I think the health risks that are connected to obesity are enough of a repellent to make people go on a diet, let alone the physical unattractiveness. Diabetes, cardio problems, weak knees, arthritis... which is why I think that people who are morbidly obese genuinely are psychologically, and probably physically addicted to food.
I think the best approach is to offer these people help, solutions on how to try to lose weight and to improve their lifestyles.
To lock them in a room with water and a salad is just going to make them more depressed.
They need to be shown alternatives, not demonised because they are using up precious money.
Nobody is demonizing them. I have mentioned that they should get counselling, so please stop reading into my words.
The health risks for them are *not* enough motivation. Otherwise they wouldn't get as large as they do. The health risks for many don't even register because their dependency is so far gone.
Also, as for the physical attractiveness, that is purely subjective. There are *alot* of people in the world who find heavy, even morbidly obese, to be very attractive and even out and out gorgeous. That is part of the problem with some of the caregivers in fact. I was talking elsewhere online with someone from Oz who said he saw a show about those who find the m.o. to be very attractive to the point where they were compromising the health of the people they loved.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
I wasn't saying you were demonising them, Pele, I meant society in general demonised them.
You're right about the physical attractiveness, however when the weight is near 60 stone, its hard to see it beautiful.
To come back to to subject of the economic cost of obesity... the first point I'd like to make is that the obese pay alot of the tax on all the food they buy, I'd imagine!
and secondly, in the UK alone, annually anorexia costs £4.2million.
binging and starvation both have their costs, don't they.
I wasn't saying you were demonising them, Pele, I meant society in general demonised them.
You're right about the physical attractiveness, however when the weight is near 60 stone, its hard to see it beautiful.
To come back to to subject of the economic cost of obesity... the first point I'd like to make is that the obese pay alot of the tax on all the food they buy, I'd imagine!
and secondly, in the UK alone, annually anorexia costs £4.2million.
binging and starvation both have their costs, don't they.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
and some of our taxes go to public healthcare, at least in wisconsin.
it supports indigents addicts and unemployed as well as those that cannot afford healthcare on the amount they make at their jobs...WI taxes go to treat STDs, pericarditis, hospital bills...i don't know about other states
and some of our taxes go to public healthcare, at least in wisconsin.
it supports indigents addicts and unemployed as well as those that cannot afford healthcare on the amount they make at their jobs...WI taxes go to treat STDs, pericarditis, hospital bills...i don't know about other states
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
member
70 posts
Location: London/Southend-on-sea
70 posts
Location: London/Southend-on-sea
Posted:
I remember my mum and i watching some programmes about people that large (50 stone man, 50 stone woman, 20 stone teenager - there's a hell of a lot of em about!) and my mum, who has reduced mobility due to being physically disabled and is on medications which have weight gain as a side effect, made me promise to shoot her if she ever got that fat but wouldnt do anythign about it, i made her promise the same about me. I dont know how we would ever carry this out as the UK has pretty stringent gun control unless you know the right (wrong?!) people, but as we eat sensibly and exercise i dont think we have anything to worry about! (my beer belly is just that! it reduces remarkably every summer when i have 3 months away from the university bar!)
Many of the programmes were positive - the person had taken a serious step toward losing weight by healthier eating, surgery, increased exercise or combinations of these and in some the transformation over the few months/year of filming was remarkable (the teenager especially if i remember rightly) but other programmes the person had no such intentions, and did seem to be intent on eating themselves to death - often with someone at their side feeding them all the way (actually there was one show about an overwieght couple and he fed her A LOT becuase he found that sexy and he was making porn for other people who liked extra fat women, but she decided to save her health and lost wieght and although they are still together he doesnt find her so attractive so uses the porn he made earlier!)
My objection is not so much with the fat people themselves - i believe you are entitled to do as you wish with your own body as long as it harms only you or if you are that selfish you dont care how it will affect anybody else (i know that really all your actions do affect other people but practically speaking there has to be a distinction drawn between different levels of effect or no one would ever do anything because of the effect it would have on other people)- but with the people around them who just keep on giving them the junk food. I could not, in good conscience, let someone i care about get in that sort of state, nor could i, in good conscience, get myself in that sort of state if i knew it was distressing to someone i cared about. I appreciate there are times i dont act in good conscience or there are times where i cannot do the thing i would if i were to act in good conscience and i am sure this applies to many people and these are the situations where outside help, support and intervention can be benefitial/necessary and i think loved ones and relevant professionals are/should be duty bound to act in the best interests of the person if that person were acting in good conscience. If i ever happened across a morbidly obese individual who said they were aware of all the risks, understood the implications, had acounted for the negative impact it would have on loved ones etc and were in full and complete control of their mental facualties (including not being depressed or having other psychological disorders or being brainwashed or otherwise pressurised by someone) but could still say hand on heart that they wanted to be that fat i would have to say 'let them be that fat' but i dont think you would find too many morbidly obese people who dont regret not being able to walk, or play with their (grand)kids or their mates or something!
I agree there are health risks concerned with going immediately from eating shed loads of junk to eating 'normal' amounts of healthy food but there are plenty of sensible and non harmful ways of changing your diet - even if it starts by eating only 4 burgers instead of 5! I dont think many people could get away with ignorance as an excuse for their eating habits.
It's interesting that someone rasied the point about humans craving fats from on evolutionary perspective, the same perspective explains why children dislike vegetables - vegetables use 'chemical warfare' to avoid being eating and although humans have evolved defences to the toxins in the plants we eat these defences are weaker in babies and children, humans also have mechanisms for avoiding ingesting toxins by disliking the taste (actually most animals have this) so children, who cannot deal with them effectively, avoid toxins by disliking vegetables. It is not unreasonable to speculate that children who eat a very small amount of vegetables from a young age will develop their toxin fighting ability and thus be able to handle greater and greater amounts of vegetables relatively sooner than their non veg eating peers, it is also not unreasonable that just as in every other sphere there is natural variations in individuals' abilities to tackle vegetable toxins. Pregnancy sickness is also a toxin avoiding mechanism to avoid toxins which would harm the developing embryo.
But, back to the fat people, all people can eat healthily even working within food allergies/intolerances, preferences, inabilities to deal with vegetable toxins (or other food toxins for which you dont have a coping mechanism - some people of jewish descent (but not kosher themselves) cant eat pork without ill effects simply because they genetically do not have pig toxin coping mechanisms) religious customs relating to food and other medical conditions which require dietary management. All people can keep an eye on their weight/size/level of fitness (there are debates about the importance of being physically fit even if somewhat large compared to the importance of being the ideal weight even though unfit - 'fat' and 'unfit' are not synonyms) before it is too late and do something about it.
Many morbidly obese people are addicted to their food - just as there are people addicted to gambling, shopping or internet fora - and this does pose a problem for rehabilitation as it is no good just getting them off the food (just as it is no good getting a drug addict to go cold turkey) if you dont solve the underlying problem, such as depression or low self esteem, otherwise they will re-offend in one way or another. Fortunately, in the case of food addicts, the vast fatness is usually a result of poor food choices leading to prefered tastes which can be changed relatively easily (children can indeed prefer apples to cheetos) even if they were still addicted to food it would be a lot harder to be that fat eating a tonne of salad a day to eating a tonne of junk!
Oh i dont know, the idea is horrific to me, i realise people are all different sizes (and sometimes through no fault of their own, my niece and nephew eat near enough the same amount but my nephew eats sweets/chocolate/cake like its going out of fashion whereas my niece does that with fruit and veg and she runs around more but she is the chubby one, also supports the genetic link - she got my mum's, he got my dad's!) but some people do take it to extremes!
However, i would sooner be overweight than a size zero!
I remember my mum and i watching some programmes about people that large (50 stone man, 50 stone woman, 20 stone teenager - there's a hell of a lot of em about!) and my mum, who has reduced mobility due to being physically disabled and is on medications which have weight gain as a side effect, made me promise to shoot her if she ever got that fat but wouldnt do anythign about it, i made her promise the same about me. I dont know how we would ever carry this out as the UK has pretty stringent gun control unless you know the right (wrong?!) people, but as we eat sensibly and exercise i dont think we have anything to worry about! (my beer belly is just that! it reduces remarkably every summer when i have 3 months away from the university bar!)
Many of the programmes were positive - the person had taken a serious step toward losing weight by healthier eating, surgery, increased exercise or combinations of these and in some the transformation over the few months/year of filming was remarkable (the teenager especially if i remember rightly) but other programmes the person had no such intentions, and did seem to be intent on eating themselves to death - often with someone at their side feeding them all the way (actually there was one show about an overwieght couple and he fed her A LOT becuase he found that sexy and he was making porn for other people who liked extra fat women, but she decided to save her health and lost wieght and although they are still together he doesnt find her so attractive so uses the porn he made earlier!)
My objection is not so much with the fat people themselves - i believe you are entitled to do as you wish with your own body as long as it harms only you or if you are that selfish you dont care how it will affect anybody else (i know that really all your actions do affect other people but practically speaking there has to be a distinction drawn between different levels of effect or no one would ever do anything because of the effect it would have on other people)- but with the people around them who just keep on giving them the junk food. I could not, in good conscience, let someone i care about get in that sort of state, nor could i, in good conscience, get myself in that sort of state if i knew it was distressing to someone i cared about. I appreciate there are times i dont act in good conscience or there are times where i cannot do the thing i would if i were to act in good conscience and i am sure this applies to many people and these are the situations where outside help, support and intervention can be benefitial/necessary and i think loved ones and relevant professionals are/should be duty bound to act in the best interests of the person if that person were acting in good conscience. If i ever happened across a morbidly obese individual who said they were aware of all the risks, understood the implications, had acounted for the negative impact it would have on loved ones etc and were in full and complete control of their mental facualties (including not being depressed or having other psychological disorders or being brainwashed or otherwise pressurised by someone) but could still say hand on heart that they wanted to be that fat i would have to say 'let them be that fat' but i dont think you would find too many morbidly obese people who dont regret not being able to walk, or play with their (grand)kids or their mates or something!
I agree there are health risks concerned with going immediately from eating shed loads of junk to eating 'normal' amounts of healthy food but there are plenty of sensible and non harmful ways of changing your diet - even if it starts by eating only 4 burgers instead of 5! I dont think many people could get away with ignorance as an excuse for their eating habits.
It's interesting that someone rasied the point about humans craving fats from on evolutionary perspective, the same perspective explains why children dislike vegetables - vegetables use 'chemical warfare' to avoid being eating and although humans have evolved defences to the toxins in the plants we eat these defences are weaker in babies and children, humans also have mechanisms for avoiding ingesting toxins by disliking the taste (actually most animals have this) so children, who cannot deal with them effectively, avoid toxins by disliking vegetables. It is not unreasonable to speculate that children who eat a very small amount of vegetables from a young age will develop their toxin fighting ability and thus be able to handle greater and greater amounts of vegetables relatively sooner than their non veg eating peers, it is also not unreasonable that just as in every other sphere there is natural variations in individuals' abilities to tackle vegetable toxins. Pregnancy sickness is also a toxin avoiding mechanism to avoid toxins which would harm the developing embryo.
But, back to the fat people, all people can eat healthily even working within food allergies/intolerances, preferences, inabilities to deal with vegetable toxins (or other food toxins for which you dont have a coping mechanism - some people of jewish descent (but not kosher themselves) cant eat pork without ill effects simply because they genetically do not have pig toxin coping mechanisms) religious customs relating to food and other medical conditions which require dietary management. All people can keep an eye on their weight/size/level of fitness (there are debates about the importance of being physically fit even if somewhat large compared to the importance of being the ideal weight even though unfit - 'fat' and 'unfit' are not synonyms) before it is too late and do something about it.
Many morbidly obese people are addicted to their food - just as there are people addicted to gambling, shopping or internet fora - and this does pose a problem for rehabilitation as it is no good just getting them off the food (just as it is no good getting a drug addict to go cold turkey) if you dont solve the underlying problem, such as depression or low self esteem, otherwise they will re-offend in one way or another. Fortunately, in the case of food addicts, the vast fatness is usually a result of poor food choices leading to prefered tastes which can be changed relatively easily (children can indeed prefer apples to cheetos) even if they were still addicted to food it would be a lot harder to be that fat eating a tonne of salad a day to eating a tonne of junk!
Oh i dont know, the idea is horrific to me, i realise people are all different sizes (and sometimes through no fault of their own, my niece and nephew eat near enough the same amount but my nephew eats sweets/chocolate/cake like its going out of fashion whereas my niece does that with fruit and veg and she runs around more but she is the chubby one, also supports the genetic link - she got my mum's, he got my dad's!) but some people do take it to extremes!
However, i would sooner be overweight than a size zero!
You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars
"To alcohol, the cause of - and solution to - all of lifes problems!"
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Excellent post Rainbowgirl. Wholeheartedly agree
Excellent post Rainbowgirl. Wholeheartedly agree
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
newbie
7 posts
Location: Alberta, Canada
newbie
7 posts
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted:
Excellent topic! I agree with the prevailing opinions for sure. But I believe I have a unique perspective. I love eating, as do most people. But I really love it. To sit down and eat ALL of something and be a total is pig is so much fun sometimes. And before I get to my point, let me also say that I used to be 250 lbs, and am now 190 lbs. I know whats it's like to be fat (though not morbidly obese) and change your life style to being a healthy person while still loving to eat food. That being said...
I am personally offended by fat people. I don't like them. I treat them with the same respect as I do anyone, but they sicken me. Normal people realize that after a certain point, like say 250 lbs, that there is a problem that must be changed. What goes on in a persons head that causes them not to change they're lifestyle when they get to be 300lbs, then 400 lbs, then 500lbs... this doesn't happen over night. You have to be some severe form of lazy or mentally insufficient to see what's going on with yourself and not do anything. And that is really my main problem with fat people, while they are completely and totally revolting on the outside and have a really bad smell to them, that fact that they are are sick on the inside to cause them to gain all this weight is what is truly disgusting. Fat people are ugly on the inside first, which causes them to be fat. You can't get that fat, +300 lbs, without lacking in character. So when I see a fat person I don't just see an ugly person on the outside, I see a repulsive human being who lacks good character, the will to change to be something better, and possibly mentally deficient at least in small ways.
There are few things more offensive to me than seeing a man who's butt is dripping over the side of his seat at McDonald's (though I personally love McDonald's) or a woman hobbling back and forth down the street to get to the pastry shop. If you're cheeks are so big they look like they are trying to eat you're face, it's time to stop.
I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to be honest. If you're reading this and are over-weight like I was, I would like to suggest that you should not feel bad or get depressed, but instead slowly, over time, change your behavior by eating less and participating in more activity, slowly over time. Nobody gets fat over night and no one loses the weight over night either.
Excellent topic! I agree with the prevailing opinions for sure. But I believe I have a unique perspective. I love eating, as do most people. But I really love it. To sit down and eat ALL of something and be a total is pig is so much fun sometimes. And before I get to my point, let me also say that I used to be 250 lbs, and am now 190 lbs. I know whats it's like to be fat (though not morbidly obese) and change your life style to being a healthy person while still loving to eat food. That being said...
I am personally offended by fat people. I don't like them. I treat them with the same respect as I do anyone, but they sicken me. Normal people realize that after a certain point, like say 250 lbs, that there is a problem that must be changed. What goes on in a persons head that causes them not to change they're lifestyle when they get to be 300lbs, then 400 lbs, then 500lbs... this doesn't happen over night. You have to be some severe form of lazy or mentally insufficient to see what's going on with yourself and not do anything. And that is really my main problem with fat people, while they are completely and totally revolting on the outside and have a really bad smell to them, that fact that they are are sick on the inside to cause them to gain all this weight is what is truly disgusting. Fat people are ugly on the inside first, which causes them to be fat. You can't get that fat, +300 lbs, without lacking in character. So when I see a fat person I don't just see an ugly person on the outside, I see a repulsive human being who lacks good character, the will to change to be something better, and possibly mentally deficient at least in small ways.
There are few things more offensive to me than seeing a man who's butt is dripping over the side of his seat at McDonald's (though I personally love McDonald's) or a woman hobbling back and forth down the street to get to the pastry shop. If you're cheeks are so big they look like they are trying to eat you're face, it's time to stop.
I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to be honest. If you're reading this and are over-weight like I was, I would like to suggest that you should not feel bad or get depressed, but instead slowly, over time, change your behavior by eating less and participating in more activity, slowly over time. Nobody gets fat over night and no one loses the weight over night either.
GOLD Member
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
member
165 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Jebus, that was one of the most offensive posts i have read in a while.
So many things come to mind when i read the above, but I suppose the most pertinant is that just because you are/have been overweight doesn't make you an expert on the psycological mind-frame of all obese people. I would assume they are suffering from something closer to serious depression rather then lazyness.
You seem to be very intollerant to peoples differences, AlbertaBoy.
Peace
Jebus, that was one of the most offensive posts i have read in a while.
So many things come to mind when i read the above, but I suppose the most pertinant is that just because you are/have been overweight doesn't make you an expert on the psycological mind-frame of all obese people. I would assume they are suffering from something closer to serious depression rather then lazyness.
You seem to be very intollerant to peoples differences, AlbertaBoy.
Peace
... simplify ...
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