Forums > Social Discussion > Cybermourning
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HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
Posted:
Yesterday while on my lunch break I was reading *shock* 'The Sun'(not exactly Britains classiest newspaper). But it had something in it that was drawn to my attention and I felt like posting it on here. It starts with a story of a young girl who's life was tragically cut short after being stabbed to death by a 'maniac' with a knife.
Anna Svidersky was a typical teenager. She loved Eminem, The Streets, and South Park- and couldnt wait to turn 18. And like millions of teens around the world she religously chatted to pals on the social networking site Myspace.com.
Just six days before her 18th Birthday on Apirl 20th this year, the Macdonalds waitress was stabbed to death.
The shocking story dominated the news in her home town of Vancouver, Washington, but would not normally have attracted attention outside the US had it not been for the global grapevine of Myspace.com.
Determined to keep her memory alive Anna's 252 registered online friends posted news of her death on the site. They composed a moving tribute to the murdered youngster along with a collage of photographs and sent it to all their contacts.But they were not prepared for the sudden outpouring of mourning their tribute unleashed. Within days Anna's tragic story spread the the Myspace community and spread across the world. People were making virtual pilgrimages to her profile putting video tributes on the net, one of which has been viewed a MILLION times!
Young people are saying it doesnt matter that Anna was thousands of miles away. It doesnt matter if they havent met her physically, "She is like us, she is in our space, she is using our language and we want to say something about it" It is Anna's online pfrofile itself perhpas which tells us the most about why so many strangers identify with her. It offers a revealing insight into her personality, right up unto the day she died.
Locked by a password only she knew it can never be altered or edited, it now stands as an eternal tribute to Anna, her short life forever frozen in time.
I read an article about this and felt the need to mention it on here, this place which to me is my virtual world. I haven't brought this thread up to invite you guys to make online tributes to Anna, I created it to make you guys think about the internet, this virtual world where the unreal becomes real. Although Anna didnt exist physically to those who spoke to her online or left tributes to, she became real in a virtual world, and so are we.
I told my best friend a while ago that if I ever died I would want him to log onto HoP and tell people what happened, because I know people would want to know. I just think its amazing about how the internet has brought thousands of people together in ways I never even thought possible, how thousands of people are grieving for a 17 year old Macdonals waitress they have never met.
I feel quite emotional about all this and my mind has gone blank, but it's a story I wanted to share, and I apologise for the typing, my space bar isnt working very well (plus im a crap typist).
I have been to Anna's profile, I dont know if I'm going to leave a message, but I invite you guys to have a look at it
https://www.myspace.com/sceneslut
Looking at her profile, even with the main title being 6 days till I'm legal, that was the day she died she wrote that, her profile is frozen in time. This storyhas made me think about so many things, mainly life death and the internet. A moving story I wanted to share with you all
Sending out love to my cyberfriends
Will
Yesterday while on my lunch break I was reading *shock* 'The Sun'(not exactly Britains classiest newspaper). But it had something in it that was drawn to my attention and I felt like posting it on here. It starts with a story of a young girl who's life was tragically cut short after being stabbed to death by a 'maniac' with a knife.
Anna Svidersky was a typical teenager. She loved Eminem, The Streets, and South Park- and couldnt wait to turn 18. And like millions of teens around the world she religously chatted to pals on the social networking site Myspace.com.
Just six days before her 18th Birthday on Apirl 20th this year, the Macdonalds waitress was stabbed to death.
The shocking story dominated the news in her home town of Vancouver, Washington, but would not normally have attracted attention outside the US had it not been for the global grapevine of Myspace.com.
Determined to keep her memory alive Anna's 252 registered online friends posted news of her death on the site. They composed a moving tribute to the murdered youngster along with a collage of photographs and sent it to all their contacts.But they were not prepared for the sudden outpouring of mourning their tribute unleashed. Within days Anna's tragic story spread the the Myspace community and spread across the world. People were making virtual pilgrimages to her profile putting video tributes on the net, one of which has been viewed a MILLION times!
Young people are saying it doesnt matter that Anna was thousands of miles away. It doesnt matter if they havent met her physically, "She is like us, she is in our space, she is using our language and we want to say something about it" It is Anna's online pfrofile itself perhpas which tells us the most about why so many strangers identify with her. It offers a revealing insight into her personality, right up unto the day she died.
Locked by a password only she knew it can never be altered or edited, it now stands as an eternal tribute to Anna, her short life forever frozen in time.
I read an article about this and felt the need to mention it on here, this place which to me is my virtual world. I haven't brought this thread up to invite you guys to make online tributes to Anna, I created it to make you guys think about the internet, this virtual world where the unreal becomes real. Although Anna didnt exist physically to those who spoke to her online or left tributes to, she became real in a virtual world, and so are we.
I told my best friend a while ago that if I ever died I would want him to log onto HoP and tell people what happened, because I know people would want to know. I just think its amazing about how the internet has brought thousands of people together in ways I never even thought possible, how thousands of people are grieving for a 17 year old Macdonals waitress they have never met.
I feel quite emotional about all this and my mind has gone blank, but it's a story I wanted to share, and I apologise for the typing, my space bar isnt working very well (plus im a crap typist).
I have been to Anna's profile, I dont know if I'm going to leave a message, but I invite you guys to have a look at it
https://www.myspace.com/sceneslut
Looking at her profile, even with the main title being 6 days till I'm legal, that was the day she died she wrote that, her profile is frozen in time. This storyhas made me think about so many things, mainly life death and the internet. A moving story I wanted to share with you all
Sending out love to my cyberfriends
Will
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind
Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife
"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian
SILVER Member
Devil May Cry
327 posts
Location: Manchester / London, United Kingdom
Devil May Cry
327 posts
Location: Manchester / London, United Kingdom
Posted:
Poor girl. yeah it does make you think and the questions of using it for good or bad deeds arises...cyberspace is another world of our thoughts and in this tragic case, her thoughts will linger on forever until the plug is pulled on myspace.com
Poor girl. yeah it does make you think and the questions of using it for good or bad deeds arises...cyberspace is another world of our thoughts and in this tragic case, her thoughts will linger on forever until the plug is pulled on myspace.com
I give hope to others but I keep none for myself.
SILVER Member
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
Posted:
Poor girl...that site moved me so much....I felt like I was spying on their grief though...
Poor girl...that site moved me so much....I felt like I was spying on their grief though...
GOLD Member
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
hehe, 'Member' huhuh
6,120 posts
Location: Behind you. With Jam
Posted:
Yeah I remember getting a bulletin about that on myspace. Asking to keep her memory alive. If we can post inane bulletins about photos, questionnaires and like, was it too much to ask to post an obituary about a girl who died in tragic circumstances... Although most of us never heard of her, she mattered to and was loved by others.
Of course I reposted it. I had to ask myself why I did it? Why don't I do the same for all the millions of others who die in equally tragic circumstances and don't even have the luxury of having a computer to actually have an internet profile? In all honestly probably not. Was I a victim of emotional blackmail? I dunno... Was I sheep-mourner? In the end, I thought that all these questions I asked about myself were irrelevant... Her friends wanted to keep her memory alive and I made the decision to honour that wish...
I like how the internet has transcended its roots as a communication tool to become an actual community, a medium for various arts, for various people - a way of life. And in the case of this girl, it stands as a memorial to someone who has left this world.
Yeah I remember getting a bulletin about that on myspace. Asking to keep her memory alive. If we can post inane bulletins about photos, questionnaires and like, was it too much to ask to post an obituary about a girl who died in tragic circumstances... Although most of us never heard of her, she mattered to and was loved by others.
Of course I reposted it. I had to ask myself why I did it? Why don't I do the same for all the millions of others who die in equally tragic circumstances and don't even have the luxury of having a computer to actually have an internet profile? In all honestly probably not. Was I a victim of emotional blackmail? I dunno... Was I sheep-mourner? In the end, I thought that all these questions I asked about myself were irrelevant... Her friends wanted to keep her memory alive and I made the decision to honour that wish...
I like how the internet has transcended its roots as a communication tool to become an actual community, a medium for various arts, for various people - a way of life. And in the case of this girl, it stands as a memorial to someone who has left this world.
"I used to want to change the world, now I just wanna leave the room with a little dignity..." - Lotus Weinstock
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
This is unlikely to be a popular post. If people find it really offensive, I'll take it down.
Her death was tragic, but do people have the really right to grieve a complete stranger? What position do you have to grieve someone that you've never known, never will, and may not even remember in a years time? Doesn't it cheapen her memory to turn her (effectively) into a chain letter?
A related article
This is unlikely to be a popular post. If people find it really offensive, I'll take it down.
Her death was tragic, but do people have the really right to grieve a complete stranger? What position do you have to grieve someone that you've never known, never will, and may not even remember in a years time? Doesn't it cheapen her memory to turn her (effectively) into a chain letter?
A related article
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
what about the millions of Indians that never met ghandi, i bet they still mourned at the news of his death, the Internet is just a tool and like any tool used incorrectly can have hazardous consequences. think about all the obituary in news papers............. i think this was a clever way to put across peoples feeling something you cant do to a newspaper obituary
what about the millions of Indians that never met ghandi, i bet they still mourned at the news of his death, the Internet is just a tool and like any tool used incorrectly can have hazardous consequences. think about all the obituary in news papers............. i think this was a clever way to put across peoples feeling something you cant do to a newspaper obituary
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
BTW, Sceneslut's profile is not safe if you have children in the house (you might want to turn your speakers down).
BTW, Sceneslut's profile is not safe if you have children in the house (you might want to turn your speakers down).
GOLD Member
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
HoP's Barman. Trapped aged 6 months
4,437 posts
Location: Staines, United Kingdom
Posted:
Like I said I didnt put up the thread to discuss the website myspace or what her friends did for her, just more for talking about how the net affects us, and how life is short
Written by: Domino
This is unlikely to be a popular post. If people find it really offensive, I'll take it down.
Her death was tragic, but do people have the really right to grieve a complete stranger? What position do you have to grieve someone that you've never known, never will, and may not even remember in a years time? Doesn't it cheapen her memory to turn her (effectively) into a chain letter?
A related article
Like I said I didnt put up the thread to discuss the website myspace or what her friends did for her, just more for talking about how the net affects us, and how life is short
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind
Give a man a fish and he'll eat 4 a day hit a man with a brick and you can have all his fish and his wife
"Will's to pretty for prison" - Simian
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Nice song. Feels weird reading tributes whilst listening to it. Kind of works though.
Nice song. Feels weird reading tributes whilst listening to it. Kind of works though.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Interesting. If I died, I would want someone on HoP to post a thread, because there are people on here with whom I am pretty close, but actually don't communicate with in other ways or see in the real world.
I would like others who didn't know me, but who knew the people who did, to support them. But I wouldn't want them to grieve for me as a person they never knew. It just seems a little odd.
Interesting. If I died, I would want someone on HoP to post a thread, because there are people on here with whom I am pretty close, but actually don't communicate with in other ways or see in the real world.
I would like others who didn't know me, but who knew the people who did, to support them. But I wouldn't want them to grieve for me as a person they never knew. It just seems a little odd.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
member
79 posts
Location: nsw camden
79 posts
Location: nsw camden
Posted:
i cant express how much that touched me more when i read the comments i was crying its such a sad story i cant believe it actually
i cant express how much that touched me more when i read the comments i was crying its such a sad story i cant believe it actually
look inside yourself for YOUR answers
veteran
1,328 posts
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia
1,328 posts
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia
Posted:
Some of my closest friends I have never met, I know them only through the internet.
I am hoping if I ever pass away someone in my family would know to check out my list of favourites and let all my online friends know that I won't be coming back.
I may not be overly close with a lot of you, but you are all part of my extended online family, you deserve to know if anything happened.
Some of my closest friends I have never met, I know them only through the internet.
I am hoping if I ever pass away someone in my family would know to check out my list of favourites and let all my online friends know that I won't be coming back.
I may not be overly close with a lot of you, but you are all part of my extended online family, you deserve to know if anything happened.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
But would you want it to be a chat thread or a discussion thread?
Better idea: Don't die.
Written by: Rozi
Interesting. If I died, I would want someone on HoP to post a thread, because there are people on here with whom I am pretty close, but actually don't communicate with in other ways or see in the real world.
But would you want it to be a chat thread or a discussion thread?
Better idea: Don't die.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
1,584 posts
Location: Angels Landing, USA
Posted:
We had a discussion on this on various forums when a kid who commited suicide and left a suicide note on myspace had tributes on his myspace as well.
What do you think about online tributes in cases of self induced death/tragedy?
Would it encourage others who feel like they aren't doing anything in life to perhaps end their lives early in order to make their friends and family miss them?
Just food for thought.
We had a discussion on this on various forums when a kid who commited suicide and left a suicide note on myspace had tributes on his myspace as well.
What do you think about online tributes in cases of self induced death/tragedy?
Would it encourage others who feel like they aren't doing anything in life to perhaps end their lives early in order to make their friends and family miss them?
Just food for thought.
To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Can't I have one of each? And one in the intro threads where everyone brings tea and cake? Ok, the one in discussion would soon devolve into an argument about correct grammatical usage of the word "farewell"... but... Yep you're right. Better not die.
Kael, you may be right, but I think people in that frame of mind can receive that message from many sources. I'd prefer to leave friends and family to mourn.
Written by: NYC
But would you want it to be a chat thread or a discussion thread?
Better idea: Don't die.
Can't I have one of each? And one in the intro threads where everyone brings tea and cake? Ok, the one in discussion would soon devolve into an argument about correct grammatical usage of the word "farewell"... but... Yep you're right. Better not die.
Kael, you may be right, but I think people in that frame of mind can receive that message from many sources. I'd prefer to leave friends and family to mourn.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
What an unfeeling thing to say.
I have friends online who i've never met, and probably never will.
But i know my online friends more intimately than i know some of my closest "real" friends, becuase it's eaiser to say some things when you don't have to say them aloud, when you don't have to watch the reaction on a persons face, and because it's easier to type when you can't talk for sobbing.
How horrible would it be if one of those people who i've been speaking to for years died, and none of their friends thought to let their online contacts know what happened?
You might forget your friends that easily, but i would be left wondering for ever after what had happend to them.
Thanks for your post Will, I hope it helps to spread a message so that noone's left wondering.
Written by: Domino
What position do you have to grieve someone that you've never known, never will, and may not even remember in a years time?
What an unfeeling thing to say.
I have friends online who i've never met, and probably never will.
But i know my online friends more intimately than i know some of my closest "real" friends, becuase it's eaiser to say some things when you don't have to say them aloud, when you don't have to watch the reaction on a persons face, and because it's easier to type when you can't talk for sobbing.
How horrible would it be if one of those people who i've been speaking to for years died, and none of their friends thought to let their online contacts know what happened?
You might forget your friends that easily, but i would be left wondering for ever after what had happend to them.
Thanks for your post Will, I hope it helps to spread a message so that noone's left wondering.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
That's exactly the point. I'm not suggesting that you don't "know" your online friends, I'm not suggesting that you wouldn't feel real, lasting grief if one one them died. However, if I told you that my old school Chemistry teacher (a fantastic man, teacher and character - he made chemistry worth learning) died recently it would be totally inappropreate for you to feel grief. And there is a long, long way between and expression of sympathy and grief.
Written by: FoxInDocs
I have friends online who i've never met, and probably never will.
But i know my online friends more intimately than i know some of my closest "real" friends
That's exactly the point. I'm not suggesting that you don't "know" your online friends, I'm not suggesting that you wouldn't feel real, lasting grief if one one them died. However, if I told you that my old school Chemistry teacher (a fantastic man, teacher and character - he made chemistry worth learning) died recently it would be totally inappropreate for you to feel grief. And there is a long, long way between and expression of sympathy and grief.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
veteran
1,328 posts
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia
1,328 posts
Location: Bendigo, Vic, Australia
Posted:
I thought we were discussing mourning your online friends, not mourning the deaths of people that your online friends knew, but you didnt.
I dont know... Im confused now
I thought we were discussing mourning your online friends, not mourning the deaths of people that your online friends knew, but you didnt.
I dont know... Im confused now
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
yeah what hanz said.
yeah what hanz said.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
Sorry. This was the bit I was refering to.
Written by: PyroWill
But they were not prepared for the sudden outpouring of mourning their tribute unleashed. Within days Anna's tragic story spread the the Myspace community and spread across the world. People were making virtual pilgrimages to her profile putting video tributes on the net, one of which has been viewed a MILLION times!
Sorry. This was the bit I was refering to.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
Well, it's a close community. I don't know everyone on HoP, but i'm sure if someone who i'd read a post or two from, or someone who's name i'd seen around a bit died, i'd want to express my symathies too.
There's nothing there saying that a) none of those people knew her either personally or online, b)they were doing anything more than expressing sympathies, or c) that they even posted anything at all.
To have anything to contribute to a video tribute, one has to assume that they had video of her, and therefore knew her (unless she had a whole bunch of freaky stalkers). people viewing those videos could have been doing just that, or maybe posting a reply saying "what a tragic loss, i'm so sorry for her friends and family"
What i mean is, there's nothing there, that implies anyone was grieving for "someone that (they)'ve never known, never will, and may not even remember in a years time".
Well, it's a close community. I don't know everyone on HoP, but i'm sure if someone who i'd read a post or two from, or someone who's name i'd seen around a bit died, i'd want to express my symathies too.
There's nothing there saying that a) none of those people knew her either personally or online, b)they were doing anything more than expressing sympathies, or c) that they even posted anything at all.
To have anything to contribute to a video tribute, one has to assume that they had video of her, and therefore knew her (unless she had a whole bunch of freaky stalkers). people viewing those videos could have been doing just that, or maybe posting a reply saying "what a tragic loss, i'm so sorry for her friends and family"
What i mean is, there's nothing there, that implies anyone was grieving for "someone that (they)'ve never known, never will, and may not even remember in a years time".
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
I feel that the part I've quoted suggests more than just an expression of sympathy was given, also that the vast majority of people that vist that site will not have had any contact at all with her. You're free to disagree, 'snone of my business.
Clearly the moral of the story is to value what you've been given and to value you what other people give you. Especially while you still have them.
Domino's Final Thought: I, entirely personally, think that it's insulting to reduce someone's memory to what is effectively a chain letter. I understand completely her friends turning her MySpace page into a kind of memorial. I underastand and accept her friends linking their friends so that they might understand the loss, if a friend from school died I would talk to my girlfriend about it even though she's never known them. Where I feel it cheapens the memory is when the nth generation are handing around someone's memory to whom they have no connection. Grief, for me, is a personal thing. Out of respect, it deserves to be kept personal.
-
I'll be quiet now, I'm not putting myself forward very well and it looks like I'm just making people angry.
I feel that the part I've quoted suggests more than just an expression of sympathy was given, also that the vast majority of people that vist that site will not have had any contact at all with her. You're free to disagree, 'snone of my business.
Clearly the moral of the story is to value what you've been given and to value you what other people give you. Especially while you still have them.
Domino's Final Thought: I, entirely personally, think that it's insulting to reduce someone's memory to what is effectively a chain letter. I understand completely her friends turning her MySpace page into a kind of memorial. I underastand and accept her friends linking their friends so that they might understand the loss, if a friend from school died I would talk to my girlfriend about it even though she's never known them. Where I feel it cheapens the memory is when the nth generation are handing around someone's memory to whom they have no connection. Grief, for me, is a personal thing. Out of respect, it deserves to be kept personal.
-
I'll be quiet now, I'm not putting myself forward very well and it looks like I'm just making people angry.
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
hell this whole discussion has cheapened her memory, and grief in general, who're we to discuss who should be allowed to mourn who?
hell this whole discussion has cheapened her memory, and grief in general, who're we to discuss who should be allowed to mourn who?
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
That's a perfectly valid point. However it is a little unfair to leap on someone who is replying to a thread posted on a discussion forum. This is, after all, social discussion- an environment in which we debate to the nth degree.
Maybe you should take issue with the person who started this thread for not defining the terms so as not to cause disrespect? Or maybe the point should have been made earlier?
This is obviously an important topic for you, maybe something that has personally impacted on you or simply something that you feel some afinity with. Sometimes we discuss uncomfortable things on HoP, and it is up to the community to decide what is appropriate or not. However care needs to be taken in coming to and enforcing that decision. We have a duty to not place blame, and to not misunderstand what is being said.
Written by: FoxInDocs
hell this whole discussion has cheapened her memory, and grief in general, who're we to discuss who should be allowed to mourn who?
That's a perfectly valid point. However it is a little unfair to leap on someone who is replying to a thread posted on a discussion forum. This is, after all, social discussion- an environment in which we debate to the nth degree.
Maybe you should take issue with the person who started this thread for not defining the terms so as not to cause disrespect? Or maybe the point should have been made earlier?
This is obviously an important topic for you, maybe something that has personally impacted on you or simply something that you feel some afinity with. Sometimes we discuss uncomfortable things on HoP, and it is up to the community to decide what is appropriate or not. However care needs to be taken in coming to and enforcing that decision. We have a duty to not place blame, and to not misunderstand what is being said.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
Who was I leaping on sorry? If I was leaping on domino i was also leaping on myself.
^^ The person who created this thread did set some guidelines, albeit a bit late...
This shouldn't be a thread for arguements or tellings off... (and i include myself, domino, and you rozi amongst the people who have been doing the telling off) it should be for appreciating eachother as internet aquaintenses and marveling at how small the world has become where we can make friends with people we've never met, and if the need arises grieve for them in just the same way that we'd grieve for the friends we have met.
Who was I leaping on sorry? If I was leaping on domino i was also leaping on myself.
Written by: PyroWill
Like I said I didnt put up the thread to discuss the website myspace or what her friends did for her, just more for talking about how the net affects us, and how life is short
^^ The person who created this thread did set some guidelines, albeit a bit late...
This shouldn't be a thread for arguements or tellings off... (and i include myself, domino, and you rozi amongst the people who have been doing the telling off) it should be for appreciating eachother as internet aquaintenses and marveling at how small the world has become where we can make friends with people we've never met, and if the need arises grieve for them in just the same way that we'd grieve for the friends we have met.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
SILVER Member
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
757 posts
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK
Posted:
Completely agreed
Completely agreed
Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
This is a strange and wonderful tribute to a person.. but at the end of the day it's the same memorial we all leave in the memories of those who love us etc.. just because this happens to be online, doesn't make it any more meaningful etc than any other life.
Not meaning to sound negative, but I worry there's a bit of cyber voyeurism going on here.. this girl's average life plastered over the web and papers for all to see when she really was just a young girl working at McDonalds.
I don't know, I may be very wrong as I haven't visited the site (forgive me that, I just don't like the idea). I just think people like to feel like they've made a friend, and one who's dead but who has left a record of their thoughts and actions is an easy one to make. This girl didn;t ask to die and she probably didn;t imagine her words were going to move people to tears or deep philosophical thought when she wrote them. If it were my words, I would feel extremely uncomfortable with the thought that over a million people were "mourning" me, when I probably only really knew like 100 of them.
She didn;t give her consent to this, I feel, and that's why it's not totally OK. Who are we to say who it's not OK to mourn? Who are you to say that it IS ok for total strangers to read through what essentially served as a young girl's diary after she died, seemingly for no other purpose than to inspire a few web browsers to think about themselves. I say this because I immediately thought of Anne Frank writing this post - her diary's publication had a noble purpose for which it seems very likely she would have given it. Here it just seems a few people read one girl's words about herself, apply it to their own lives, the girl's memory is not truly served because of something she didn't consent to (well, consider at least)
Sorry if that sounds strong, it wasn;t meant to but it;s hard to get my point across another way. I just don't like the thought of someone reading words I wrote in a second and using them as the basis of some deep philosophical thought, nor of millions reading my myspace or whatever soon after I die because of some sort of morbid fascination.
EDITED_BY: _kevlarsoul_ (1148500575)
This is a strange and wonderful tribute to a person.. but at the end of the day it's the same memorial we all leave in the memories of those who love us etc.. just because this happens to be online, doesn't make it any more meaningful etc than any other life.
Not meaning to sound negative, but I worry there's a bit of cyber voyeurism going on here.. this girl's average life plastered over the web and papers for all to see when she really was just a young girl working at McDonalds.
I don't know, I may be very wrong as I haven't visited the site (forgive me that, I just don't like the idea). I just think people like to feel like they've made a friend, and one who's dead but who has left a record of their thoughts and actions is an easy one to make. This girl didn;t ask to die and she probably didn;t imagine her words were going to move people to tears or deep philosophical thought when she wrote them. If it were my words, I would feel extremely uncomfortable with the thought that over a million people were "mourning" me, when I probably only really knew like 100 of them.
She didn;t give her consent to this, I feel, and that's why it's not totally OK. Who are we to say who it's not OK to mourn? Who are you to say that it IS ok for total strangers to read through what essentially served as a young girl's diary after she died, seemingly for no other purpose than to inspire a few web browsers to think about themselves. I say this because I immediately thought of Anne Frank writing this post - her diary's publication had a noble purpose for which it seems very likely she would have given it. Here it just seems a few people read one girl's words about herself, apply it to their own lives, the girl's memory is not truly served because of something she didn't consent to (well, consider at least)
Sorry if that sounds strong, it wasn;t meant to but it;s hard to get my point across another way. I just don't like the thought of someone reading words I wrote in a second and using them as the basis of some deep philosophical thought, nor of millions reading my myspace or whatever soon after I die because of some sort of morbid fascination.
EDITED_BY: _kevlarsoul_ (1148500575)
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
I think you raise a valid point in that it's not any more meaningful. And no, she didn't give her consent to have a memorial made to her, but that's what her friends did, and obviously, they being the people that knew her best, thought that it was aproppriate.
like i mentioned before, i don't think anyone who didn't actually know her is "mourning" her as such.
And as for it being ok for "total strangers to read through what essentially served as a young girl's diary" That's what myspace and live journal are for, so that you can post all about your un/interesting life for people who are interested to read, you don't put things up on the internet if you don't want people to look at it. That much was her decision, and she made it before she died.
I think you raise a valid point in that it's not any more meaningful. And no, she didn't give her consent to have a memorial made to her, but that's what her friends did, and obviously, they being the people that knew her best, thought that it was aproppriate.
like i mentioned before, i don't think anyone who didn't actually know her is "mourning" her as such.
And as for it being ok for "total strangers to read through what essentially served as a young girl's diary" That's what myspace and live journal are for, so that you can post all about your un/interesting life for people who are interested to read, you don't put things up on the internet if you don't want people to look at it. That much was her decision, and she made it before she died.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
I use my LJ more as a communication tool with my friends than as some kind of advertising space for my life. But what I post up there, I know that anyone with access to the internet can read. Some of the stuff I post I don't want people that know me in person to find out. I'm fairly cagey about who I give the address to for that very reason.
That being said, I know I put myself up for scrutiny by the act of having an LJ/MySpace profile. Anyone can read it, access it, comment on it... If I was to die, and this space which I have claimed as my own was to be invaded, however well-meaningly, I am in no position to complain. Its a public forum.
Written by: FoxInDocs
And as for it being ok for "total strangers to read through what essentially served as a young girl's diary" That's what myspace and live journal are for, so that you can post all about your un/interesting life for people who are interested to read, you don't put things up on the internet if you don't want people to look at it. That much was her decision, and she made it before she died.
I use my LJ more as a communication tool with my friends than as some kind of advertising space for my life. But what I post up there, I know that anyone with access to the internet can read. Some of the stuff I post I don't want people that know me in person to find out. I'm fairly cagey about who I give the address to for that very reason.
That being said, I know I put myself up for scrutiny by the act of having an LJ/MySpace profile. Anyone can read it, access it, comment on it... If I was to die, and this space which I have claimed as my own was to be invaded, however well-meaningly, I am in no position to complain. Its a public forum.
"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman
Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,626 posts
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom
Posted:
Yeah, that's fine, I do realise that by pressing the "post" button you're commiting your words to posterity and all. My point is that I doubt any of us post anything thinking it will be some kind of "memorial" to us after we die, myspace or otherwise. The fact is she just killed a bit of time doing her blog, and now that's become a source of fascination for millions of people who didn't know her, when I'm sure she didn't think anyone would be reading it excpet her mates - those same mates who have spread the address around the net.. this probably isn't representative of her, and the real her is being forgotten. Just because her firends see this as a representative side of her, doesn't make it true. I'm quite different with my friends than I am from my girlfriend, my parents, on my own, and online.
That's my point anyway. Personally I don't consider the words I say to be worthy of a summing up of my life. My last few blogs were about how crabs freak me out, how I hate uni and a questionnaire I filled in. Hardly the most meaningful stuff I've ever written, representative of me in the majority of my life or whatever.
EDITED_BY: _kevlarsoul_ (1148599544)
Yeah, that's fine, I do realise that by pressing the "post" button you're commiting your words to posterity and all. My point is that I doubt any of us post anything thinking it will be some kind of "memorial" to us after we die, myspace or otherwise. The fact is she just killed a bit of time doing her blog, and now that's become a source of fascination for millions of people who didn't know her, when I'm sure she didn't think anyone would be reading it excpet her mates - those same mates who have spread the address around the net.. this probably isn't representative of her, and the real her is being forgotten. Just because her firends see this as a representative side of her, doesn't make it true. I'm quite different with my friends than I am from my girlfriend, my parents, on my own, and online.
That's my point anyway. Personally I don't consider the words I say to be worthy of a summing up of my life. My last few blogs were about how crabs freak me out, how I hate uni and a questionnaire I filled in. Hardly the most meaningful stuff I've ever written, representative of me in the majority of my life or whatever.
EDITED_BY: _kevlarsoul_ (1148599544)
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
why isn't that representative of you in the majority of your life?
you're a guy who gets freaked out by crabs, hates uni, and likes to fill out questionaires.
i'm a girl who's a afraid of falling, can't tell the time, and spends too much time on the internet.
That's not all we are, but it's part of us. I think a blog's the perfect tribute, it doesn't glamorise a person, only showing the good times they had, and their achievements, because that's only one part of a person's life as well. a blog shows that they were just who they were, a person with problems and idosincracies just like everyone else as well as all the good bits...
why isn't that representative of you in the majority of your life?
you're a guy who gets freaked out by crabs, hates uni, and likes to fill out questionaires.
i'm a girl who's a afraid of falling, can't tell the time, and spends too much time on the internet.
That's not all we are, but it's part of us. I think a blog's the perfect tribute, it doesn't glamorise a person, only showing the good times they had, and their achievements, because that's only one part of a person's life as well. a blog shows that they were just who they were, a person with problems and idosincracies just like everyone else as well as all the good bits...
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
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