Forums > Advanced Poi Moves > 3D Spinning
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Well, there were developed just few new techniques of new way of spinning. Its right time to put the moves into new dimensions.
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
--------------------
Stay tuned, more to come, binary division.
enjoys the ride,
:R
Well, there were developed just few new techniques of new way of spinning. Its right time to put the moves into new dimensions.
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
- [Old link]
--------------------
Stay tuned, more to come, binary division.
enjoys the ride,
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
my short and long arm turning carries (when i get them right) are kinda slantspin.
My hands are describing a circle thats roughly 40-35degrees to the vertical, while my poi spin in vertical planes.
with a staff, 360 fishtail turns are atomic spin (if you do them proper)
my short and long arm turning carries (when i get them right) are kinda slantspin.
My hands are describing a circle thats roughly 40-35degrees to the vertical, while my poi spin in vertical planes.
with a staff, 360 fishtail turns are atomic spin (if you do them proper)
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
atomic spin flowers are pretty easy. stcik you right arm out to the right, spin poi in wall plane, turn 90 degrees with arm, keep poi spinning in the same plane plane, turn 90 more degrees etc... or you can try verticle arm circles with corkscrew poi which isnt to bad. but getting the poi to do atomic spin on its own is hard. ive managed it in a swimming pool once with an inflatable toy, one end of the toy floatrs around in horizontal circles on teh surface of the pool, the other hand can do verticle circles straight through the middle of the horizontal circle. i think with a real poi would be alot easier in zero gravity.
atomic spin flowers are pretty easy. stcik you right arm out to the right, spin poi in wall plane, turn 90 degrees with arm, keep poi spinning in the same plane plane, turn 90 more degrees etc... or you can try verticle arm circles with corkscrew poi which isnt to bad. but getting the poi to do atomic spin on its own is hard. ive managed it in a swimming pool once with an inflatable toy, one end of the toy floatrs around in horizontal circles on teh surface of the pool, the other hand can do verticle circles straight through the middle of the horizontal circle. i think with a real poi would be alot easier in zero gravity.
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
weave hands with horizontal poi?
weave hands with horizontal poi?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I'm usually the last guy to say this but:
Either we need a video
or
This thread has gotten theoretical.
Both I'm confortable with, but which one is it?
I'm usually the last guy to say this but:
Either we need a video
or
This thread has gotten theoretical.
Both I'm confortable with, but which one is it?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
Neither.
apart from my last post (a suggestion of something which i don't reckon should be too hard once you actually try it. Although admittedly i haven't even tried to think of the potential difficulties, but that's probably the best approach...) everything we've mentioned has been stuff that we already do.
And i don't think it's particularly alien concepts either. For example:
i reckon you already do them too.
Neither.
apart from my last post (a suggestion of something which i don't reckon should be too hard once you actually try it. Although admittedly i haven't even tried to think of the potential difficulties, but that's probably the best approach...) everything we've mentioned has been stuff that we already do.
And i don't think it's particularly alien concepts either. For example:
Written by: me just a few posts up
my short and long arm turning carries (when i get them right) are kinda slantspin.
My hands are describing a circle thats roughly 40-35degrees to the vertical, while my poi spin in vertical planes.
i reckon you already do them too.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
NYC-
atomic spin is something I really wish I had time to work on more.. I played with it for a while.. noone picked up on it.. and now I've got a cam, so I've got people
down my back to make videos of every frickin poi arc, technique, smack that poi can do 
.. but I will be getting around to it.. I jsut cant promise anything soon.. besides that, I would (as much as I'm complaining about it) like everyone to understand and have access to the other techniques when I get to them.. so I just ask you bare with me while I make this available to even the most newbish..
I'm also sorry if my last post came of as dickish.. I dont know what your background is but I'm doing graduate research in the psych department, while I finish putting together my philosophy thesis.. (I'm using the psych phd program as a fall back if I dont get the philosophy phd program I want since I have degrees in both) unlike poi, this wasnt one of my bs ramblings..
To all-
I wnat to ask you to stop and put your mind on hold for a minute.. step out of reality and into blueprint/theory land.. most of the poi you do is 2d.. (don't bring up time and blah blah.. ) just bare with me for a sec.. take the buzzsaw.. the buzzsaw is a single planed move.. both poi spin the same plane and make the same nice crisp circle.. this move is 2d.. its flat, in that it has no depth beyond the poi.. time is ruled out because the pattern is a circle (we are not focusing on a poi at time t moving at velocity v at point p etc.. )
another example (and I will refute this claim later.. but.. for the time being.. think of a butterfly.. abutterfly is essentially also a single planed move.. you think of it as this flat circle.. but the poi are moving opposite directions.. but the goal pattern is a flat circle..
think of a precise weave... with nice planes you should have two parallel circles.. that you move between.. (ahh but rev isnt moving between them your depth) you don't focus on spinning the inbetween.. you focus on these same flat boring objects circles.. and moving between the same 2d objects doesnt give your spinning any 'depth' it just gives it variety..
so when we talk of '3d' spinning.. we are trying to incorporate more depth into the pattern on the whole.. we are trying to saturate the whole pattern with height, width, and depth.. thus giving your patterns (and your dance) a richer appearance..
to me (and this is just me speaking here.. ) I don't think atoms reach this level.. because atoms.. (like most everything else) still spin the same 2d pattern.. even your basic butterfly is an atom ( I mean if they really spun the same plane they would collide, so you sin your btterfly with an 'x' pattern).. so I dont really see how exagerating that opens up much.. atoms, though fun, imo, or not visually appealing.. it either looks like a circle and a line if you are parallel with one, or like a ugly butterfly if you are at 45..
but atoms did open up because they introduced what I call atomic spin (for lack of a better way to describe it) many thanks to oli for ressurecting that thread.. I suggest before you get into atomic spin that you first get comfortable with 90 degree plane changes.. they are the key to good atomic spin because they teach you most of what you are trying to do..
drill #1- fwd butterfly.. bring the right poi over the left arm and under it to the inside plane.. you should be able to take this right into a clockwise (bottom circle) corkscrew..
similarly.. you can take the bottom of a corkscrew and pull it straight into a butterfly (or a ttn rather) by taking the hand on bottom and pulling it into a vertical plane as it goes over the arm.. for example the bottom of a clockwise 4bt cork has the left hand on bottom.. you can pull the left hand from under the right hand (horizontal plane) into a vertical plane as it goes over the right hand.. thus entering a fwd ttn..
as you get mroe comfortable with these type of changes, you can do a pattern that is like a ttn, but it uses the bottom of a cork to thread.. so it would go fwd butterfly -> right hand over the left arm and backa under-> clockwise bottom of a cork-> fwd butterfly -> left hand passes over and under -> counterclockwise bottom of a cork -> fwd butterfly..
the thing to pay attnetion to here is that the motion of the corks is the same as the motion of the threads.. because realtive to your hand, you are still going 'over' the other hand regardless of which plane the hand is in.. so if the hands are spinning a horizontal plane.. the clockwise twisting where the left hand comes around the rigth hand is equialent to the left hand going OVER the right hand in a vertical plane..
practice this more and you should be able to begin working on doing that buttefly pattern without the poi changing plane orietations.. as in you should be able to twist your hands horizontally, while still maintaing vertical planes.. it will be way wobbly at first.. but it cleans up I promise.. by this point you are now using atomic spin because you are spinning in one plane, while the poi spin another... when compared to normal butterflies and such you can see where this has you thinking in a new dimension..
my other example of the exagerrated conicals from the isolation where the hand does a circle parallel to the poi circle I think brings this out as well.. think of it like being two cones placed tip to tip.. the bottom of one cone is the poi circle.. the bottom of the other cone is the hand circle.. and the point wehre the two tips come together is the point of isolation... 3d as compared to a normal isoaltion whihc is 2d (flat circle in whihc the hand and the poi are traveling the exact same path.. )
does any of this help you see how we are using the term 3d vs 2d in spinning? or am I rambling incoherently as usual..
NYC-
atomic spin is something I really wish I had time to work on more.. I played with it for a while.. noone picked up on it.. and now I've got a cam, so I've got people
down my back to make videos of every frickin poi arc, technique, smack that poi can do .. but I will be getting around to it.. I jsut cant promise anything soon.. besides that, I would (as much as I'm complaining about it) like everyone to understand and have access to the other techniques when I get to them.. so I just ask you bare with me while I make this available to even the most newbish.. I'm also sorry if my last post came of as dickish.. I dont know what your background is but I'm doing graduate research in the psych department, while I finish putting together my philosophy thesis.. (I'm using the psych phd program as a fall back if I dont get the philosophy phd program I want since I have degrees in both) unlike poi, this wasnt one of my bs ramblings..
To all-
I wnat to ask you to stop and put your mind on hold for a minute.. step out of reality and into blueprint/theory land.. most of the poi you do is 2d.. (don't bring up time and blah blah.. ) just bare with me for a sec.. take the buzzsaw.. the buzzsaw is a single planed move.. both poi spin the same plane and make the same nice crisp circle.. this move is 2d.. its flat, in that it has no depth beyond the poi.. time is ruled out because the pattern is a circle (we are not focusing on a poi at time t moving at velocity v at point p etc.. )
another example (and I will refute this claim later.. but.. for the time being.. think of a butterfly.. abutterfly is essentially also a single planed move.. you think of it as this flat circle.. but the poi are moving opposite directions.. but the goal pattern is a flat circle..
think of a precise weave... with nice planes you should have two parallel circles.. that you move between.. (ahh but rev isnt moving between them your depth) you don't focus on spinning the inbetween.. you focus on these same flat boring objects circles.. and moving between the same 2d objects doesnt give your spinning any 'depth' it just gives it variety..
so when we talk of '3d' spinning.. we are trying to incorporate more depth into the pattern on the whole.. we are trying to saturate the whole pattern with height, width, and depth.. thus giving your patterns (and your dance) a richer appearance..
to me (and this is just me speaking here.. ) I don't think atoms reach this level.. because atoms.. (like most everything else) still spin the same 2d pattern.. even your basic butterfly is an atom ( I mean if they really spun the same plane they would collide, so you sin your btterfly with an 'x' pattern).. so I dont really see how exagerating that opens up much.. atoms, though fun, imo, or not visually appealing.. it either looks like a circle and a line if you are parallel with one, or like a ugly butterfly if you are at 45..
but atoms did open up because they introduced what I call atomic spin (for lack of a better way to describe it) many thanks to oli for ressurecting that thread.. I suggest before you get into atomic spin that you first get comfortable with 90 degree plane changes.. they are the key to good atomic spin because they teach you most of what you are trying to do..
drill #1- fwd butterfly.. bring the right poi over the left arm and under it to the inside plane.. you should be able to take this right into a clockwise (bottom circle) corkscrew..
similarly.. you can take the bottom of a corkscrew and pull it straight into a butterfly (or a ttn rather) by taking the hand on bottom and pulling it into a vertical plane as it goes over the arm.. for example the bottom of a clockwise 4bt cork has the left hand on bottom.. you can pull the left hand from under the right hand (horizontal plane) into a vertical plane as it goes over the right hand.. thus entering a fwd ttn..
as you get mroe comfortable with these type of changes, you can do a pattern that is like a ttn, but it uses the bottom of a cork to thread.. so it would go fwd butterfly -> right hand over the left arm and backa under-> clockwise bottom of a cork-> fwd butterfly -> left hand passes over and under -> counterclockwise bottom of a cork -> fwd butterfly..
the thing to pay attnetion to here is that the motion of the corks is the same as the motion of the threads.. because realtive to your hand, you are still going 'over' the other hand regardless of which plane the hand is in.. so if the hands are spinning a horizontal plane.. the clockwise twisting where the left hand comes around the rigth hand is equialent to the left hand going OVER the right hand in a vertical plane..
practice this more and you should be able to begin working on doing that buttefly pattern without the poi changing plane orietations.. as in you should be able to twist your hands horizontally, while still maintaing vertical planes.. it will be way wobbly at first.. but it cleans up I promise.. by this point you are now using atomic spin because you are spinning in one plane, while the poi spin another... when compared to normal butterflies and such you can see where this has you thinking in a new dimension..
my other example of the exagerrated conicals from the isolation where the hand does a circle parallel to the poi circle I think brings this out as well.. think of it like being two cones placed tip to tip.. the bottom of one cone is the poi circle.. the bottom of the other cone is the hand circle.. and the point wehre the two tips come together is the point of isolation... 3d as compared to a normal isoaltion whihc is 2d (flat circle in whihc the hand and the poi are traveling the exact same path.. )
does any of this help you see how we are using the term 3d vs 2d in spinning? or am I rambling incoherently as usual..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Yeah yeah yeah... simain has ticky-tacked me again. I'll reword my post.
Either I need a video to understand this or this thread will have become theoretical for me as I am not around people who do it.
There.
Written by: NYC
I'm usually the last guy to say this but:
Either we need a video
or
This thread has gotten theoretical.
Both I'm confortable with, but which one is it?
Yeah yeah yeah... simain has ticky-tacked me again. I'll reword my post.
Either I need a video to understand this or this thread will have become theoretical for me as I am not around people who do it.
There.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
Well, what to say.
I want to say again, what I try to point, make a sense is that I was all the time spinnig like in a corridor. When I spun for people a move my body to make the circles more visible for them, you know what I meen.
And that, this new moves came to me and I open my eyes. I saw that there are moves behind corridor borders that allows me to feel more free in space.
When I saw my friend spining Weave it looked nice from one side, but from the other....
:R
Well, what to say.
I want to say again, what I try to point, make a sense is that I was all the time spinnig like in a corridor. When I spun for people a move my body to make the circles more visible for them, you know what I meen.
And that, this new moves came to me and I open my eyes. I saw that there are moves behind corridor borders that allows me to feel more free in space.
When I saw my friend spining Weave it looked nice from one side, but from the other....
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Richee, did you ever think your post would turn into a thread like this?
Richee, did you ever think your post would turn into a thread like this?
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,750 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Posted:
right.
I promis, for my birthday present, Im gonna write the 5 dimensianal atom theory RFC
the threads above are good, but far too disperate, the info spread around between bits of the above style bull-[censored]. sorry.
the why 2d thing is intresting... I thnk its a bit like wipe out, the better your line, the smoother it goes. you dont see thoes bald guys with chain whips and stuff do many radical plane changes, we do stuff 2d because thats how it works.
check it!
1hand =2d + t
2hand = 4d + t
simian: where are the hands? :?
T
right.
I promis, for my birthday present, Im gonna write the 5 dimensianal atom theory RFC
the threads above are good, but far too disperate, the info spread around between bits of the above style bull-[censored]. sorry.
the why 2d thing is intresting... I thnk its a bit like wipe out, the better your line, the smoother it goes. you dont see thoes bald guys with chain whips and stuff do many radical plane changes, we do stuff 2d because thats how it works.
check it!
1hand =2d + t
2hand = 4d + t
simian: where are the hands? :?
T
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
good luck with that nix... but I can spin 3d moves with one hand.. with one poi even... or should I clarify 3d+t
you need a 6d +t setup.. not a 4d +t
how?
well that's precisely the point I was making between 2d and 3d spinning..
your 2d + t model and my 3d +t model is exactly what has been discussed.. because essentially I don't see the need for the 2 hand differentiation.. because I think onceyou think 3d with one hand rather than 2d with one hand.. then you already understand the rest..
good luck with that nix... but I can spin 3d moves with one hand.. with one poi even... or should I clarify 3d+t
you need a 6d +t setup.. not a 4d +t
how?
well that's precisely the point I was making between 2d and 3d spinning..
your 2d + t model and my 3d +t model is exactly what has been discussed.. because essentially I don't see the need for the 2 hand differentiation.. because I think onceyou think 3d with one hand rather than 2d with one hand.. then you already understand the rest..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
i have not the faintest clue what you guys are on about
tom - my hands are just below where my head is buried
i have not the faintest clue what you guys are on about
tom - my hands are just below where my head is buried
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
me neither monkey.
"the 5 dimensianal atom theory RFC"?
"4d + t"?
i'm not sure whether to laugh or cry...
unless 'rfc' means 'a football club what specialises in rugby', then its all cool
waits patiently for the theory that will unlock clean changes in angular momentum through 90 degress...
cole. x
me neither monkey.
"the 5 dimensianal atom theory RFC"?
"4d + t"?
i'm not sure whether to laugh or cry...unless 'rfc' means 'a football club what specialises in rugby', then its all cool
waits patiently for the theory that will unlock clean changes in angular momentum through 90 degress...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
4 spacial dimension? one for each poi head and one for each hand. plus one time dimension = 5 dimensions?
4 spacial dimension? one for each poi head and one for each hand. plus one time dimension = 5 dimensions?
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
what is this, star trek?
you can't have separate dimensions for your hands!
it seems they are simply variables.
i challenge anyone to spin a single poi in any more or less than the 4 perceivable dimensions we all know and love.
if you manage it, you cannot possibly exist in this universe and must cease to be.
no offence, but that's just how it is
cole. x
what is this, star trek?
you can't have separate dimensions for your hands!
it seems they are simply variables.
i challenge anyone to spin a single poi in any more or less than the 4 perceivable dimensions we all know and love.
if you manage it, you cannot possibly exist in this universe and must cease to be.
no offence, but that's just how it is
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
yea i get that cole, i was just trying to work out what nx might have meant...
yea i get that cole, i was just trying to work out what nx might have meant...
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
sorry oli - didn't mean to sound like i was aiming that at you
i have a general dislike for stuff that makes little sense (i.e. what i don't get).
when this is further shrouded in language that makes it intentionally less comprehensible and is contrary the use of terms and words that have long been in general use, it starts to grate a bit.
guessing what a "6d + t setup" might mean is about as useful as saying "5 dimensianal atom theory RFC" will explain it all.
like i said - i look forward to hearing something that isn't an unsolvable code accompanied by cryptic promises...
cole. x
sorry oli - didn't mean to sound like i was aiming that at you
i have a general dislike for stuff that makes little sense (i.e. what i don't get
).when this is further shrouded in language that makes it intentionally less comprehensible and is contrary the use of terms and words that have long been in general use, it starts to grate a bit.
guessing what a "6d + t setup" might mean is about as useful as saying "5 dimensianal atom theory RFC" will explain it all.
like i said - i look forward to hearing something that isn't an unsolvable code accompanied by cryptic promises...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
spherculist matt's box weave transition things are pretty ace... um links anyone?
they're pretty easy, reliable and clean, and for me they've turned 3d spinning with dynamic plane changes from science fiction into a relatively easily attainable reality.
not that i've actually attained it yet as such...
but my intended approach is to wait for the ultrageeks to pioneer into an area and find a plateua, then they forge onwards, and i sneak into the deserted base camp and put luxuries in, like espresso machines and pinball...
Written by: coleman
waits patiently for the theory that will unlock clean changes in angular momentum through 90 degress...
spherculist matt's box weave transition things are pretty ace... um links anyone?
they're pretty easy, reliable and clean, and for me they've turned 3d spinning with dynamic plane changes from science fiction into a relatively easily attainable reality.
not that i've actually attained it yet as such...
but my intended approach is to wait for the ultrageeks to pioneer into an area and find a plateua, then they forge onwards, and i sneak into the deserted base camp and put luxuries in, like espresso machines and pinball...
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
yeah - i liked that idea too.
but at any kind of speed or with heavy poi, i still can't do it cleanly.
by clean i mean from flat plane to flat plane in within a quarter of a circle or less.
but i'm probably just being lazy
cole. x
yeah - i liked that idea too.
but at any kind of speed or with heavy poi, i still can't do it cleanly.
by clean i mean from flat plane to flat plane in within a quarter of a circle or less.
but i'm probably just being lazy
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
move your hand faster?
move your hand faster?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Good because I was kinda skimming and it didn't make sense to me. If it didn't make sense to Cole than I don't have a prayer.
Cole, tell me when something makes sense and I'll start paying attention again.
Written by: coleman
what is this, star trek?
Good because I was kinda skimming and it didn't make sense to me. If it didn't make sense to Cole than I don't have a prayer.
Cole, tell me when something makes sense and I'll start paying attention again.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
tsk. loads of this thread makes perfect sense, mr nyc
i already knew you were skimming, or a clever chap like you would have realised that already
tell him, cole!
tsk. loads of this thread makes perfect sense, mr nyc
i already knew you were skimming, or a clever chap like you would have realised that already
tell him, cole!
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
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big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
there's the rub right there.
do i move it as fast as possible to the other location or do i move it maintaining tension throughout...?
if i have to maintain tension throughout i can't move it any faster unless i start tracing a different path with my hand.
maybe that is the way to do it and get it really clean.
but i haven't seen it done yet.
nyc 
i was following everything up until tom's posts but like i say, i have never managed to spin this stuff cleanly and so am waiting for more theory/examples that i/other people can do cleanly.
i fully admit that the reason i can't spin this stuff may be down to my skill level and not the theory behind it being at fault.
i just haven't seen anyone else do it clean yet either so i plan to go off and juggle while tom and rev work it all out for us...
cole. x
Written by: simian
move your hand faster?
there's the rub right there.
do i move it as fast as possible to the other location or do i move it maintaining tension throughout...?
if i have to maintain tension throughout i can't move it any faster unless i start tracing a different path with my hand.
maybe that is the way to do it and get it really clean.
but i haven't seen it done yet.
nyc
i was following everything up until tom's posts but like i say, i have never managed to spin this stuff cleanly and so am waiting for more theory/examples that i/other people can do cleanly.
i fully admit that the reason i can't spin this stuff may be down to my skill level and not the theory behind it being at fault.
i just haven't seen anyone else do it clean yet either so i plan to go off and juggle while tom and rev work it all out for us...
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
hmm. A simple example of how i reckon it should work...
Munkyexplanation of how he reckons to do a 90degree plane change that he nicked from oli/garthy/duballstar who all nicked it from Matt (sphism/poipoipoi)
spinning backward circles in wheel plane with one poi (right hand)
when the poi is coming up in front of you, at an angle of 45 degrees to the ground:-
Move your hand diagonally down and forwards (eg from nearish your shoulder, to out a way in front of your navel) in a smooth curve like a quarter of a circle bulging toward you. Think of it as describing a line on a sphere that is centred on the poi head.
(Recognise the plane of the movement of your hand? arashi's "45 degree to everything planes" innit?)
the poi ends up spinning anticlockwise in wall plane, it's plane rotated (from above) by 90 degrees.
And the change happens in my description in a quarter circle of the poi spinning (fulfilling what should become known as the "Cole Criterion")
eg: poi pointing from diagonally down and in front of you -> to pointing diagonally up and to your right.
from playing with it a little bit, i reckon that can have a relatively low difficulty of execution, a smooth controlled appearance and a fast change of planes.
now how does the method change in order to get a change within less than the Cole Criterion?
Cole - if you still can't get your hands fast enough, then maybe you should take up something less demanding. Juggling perhaps?
EDITED_BY: simian (1128086527)
Written by: cole
there's the rub right there.
do i move it as fast as possible to the other location or do i move it maintaining tension throughout...?
if i have to maintain tension throughout i can't move it any faster unless i start tracing a different path with my hand.
hmm. A simple example of how i reckon it should work...
Munkyexplanation of how he reckons to do a 90degree plane change that he nicked from oli/garthy/duballstar who all nicked it from Matt (sphism/poipoipoi)
spinning backward circles in wheel plane with one poi (right hand)
when the poi is coming up in front of you, at an angle of 45 degrees to the ground:-
Move your hand diagonally down and forwards (eg from nearish your shoulder, to out a way in front of your navel) in a smooth curve like a quarter of a circle bulging toward you. Think of it as describing a line on a sphere that is centred on the poi head.
(Recognise the plane of the movement of your hand? arashi's "45 degree to everything planes" innit?)
the poi ends up spinning anticlockwise in wall plane, it's plane rotated (from above) by 90 degrees.
And the change happens in my description in a quarter circle of the poi spinning (fulfilling what should become known as the "Cole Criterion")
eg: poi pointing from diagonally down and in front of you -> to pointing diagonally up and to your right.
from playing with it a little bit, i reckon that can have a relatively low difficulty of execution, a smooth controlled appearance and a fast change of planes.
now how does the method change in order to get a change within less than the Cole Criterion?
Cole - if you still can't get your hands fast enough, then maybe you should take up something less demanding. Juggling perhaps?
EDITED_BY: simian (1128086527)
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
cool - cheers monkus, i'll try harder
cole. x
cool - cheers monkus, i'll try harder
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
I wish I had time to read all this.. . I'll have to come back to this later tonight..
I jsut wanted to say:
1- you can do smooth 90 degree changes.. I'm working on getting my atoms better like that so that I can flow straght from wall to wheel with a smooth motion..
2- what's the 4d +t and what not.. think of it like having an x,y grid for the right hand.. and an a,b grid for the left hand.. even though they are both 2d they have to be treated as independent spaces.. thus 4d.. whihc is why I said if you stop thinking 2d and start thinking 3d it goes from 4d to 6d.. I don't care much for the distinction.. which is why I said you need that once you grasp the move from 2-3d you dont need any further quantifications..
ps- (the independent grids can overlap.. meaning a dimension of one can overlap a dimension of the other.. and you dont notice it.. but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist.. its jsut a differnt way of quantifying things so that you can specifically track each space better.. whether thats more helpful to most people or not)
I wish I had time to read all this.. . I'll have to come back to this later tonight..
I jsut wanted to say:
1- you can do smooth 90 degree changes.. I'm working on getting my atoms better like that so that I can flow straght from wall to wheel with a smooth motion..
2- what's the 4d +t
and what not.. think of it like having an x,y grid for the right hand.. and an a,b grid for the left hand.. even though they are both 2d they have to be treated as independent spaces.. thus 4d.. whihc is why I said if you stop thinking 2d and start thinking 3d it goes from 4d to 6d.. I don't care much for the distinction.. which is why I said you need that once you grasp the move from 2-3d you dont need any further quantifications..ps- (the independent grids can overlap.. meaning a dimension of one can overlap a dimension of the other.. and you dont notice it.. but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist.. its jsut a differnt way of quantifying things so that you can specifically track each space better.. whether thats more helpful to most people or not
) More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
i reckon you mean increasing the number of planes, not dimensions. Which would be harder.
i reckon you mean increasing the number of planes, not dimensions. Which would be harder.
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
cheers rev but that does present more questions...
where does an a-b grid sit in relation to the x-y axes?
why are "independent spaces" necessary - unless are we trying to say there is never any interaction i don't understand?
surely one of the the a-b axes is equivalent to either the x or y axis and the other equivalent to the z axis?
finally, why would we not want to describe them as different values within the same dimensions as is done with everything else?
i.e. lx, ly and lz against rx, ry and rz.
has anyone who understands the "4d + t" models considered describing it using a polar co-ordinate system?
is this not helping?
[edit:
simian's post makes a good suggestion of why you might need differently oriented sets of (orthogonal?) axes.
guess i'll just have to wait 'till nix's birthday...
if this stuff what rev and nix are on about deals with transferring between sets of differently oriented planes, it could well be considered the poi equivalent of m-theory: "who wants a flat brane man - that's soooo 2002"
]
cole. x
Written by: Rev
2- what's the 4d +t
cheers rev but that does present more questions...
where does an a-b grid sit in relation to the x-y axes?
why are "independent spaces" necessary - unless are we trying to say there is never any interaction i don't understand?
surely one of the the a-b axes is equivalent to either the x or y axis and the other equivalent to the z axis?
finally, why would we not want to describe them as different values within the same dimensions as is done with everything else?
i.e. lx, ly and lz against rx, ry and rz.
has anyone who understands the "4d + t" models considered describing it using a polar co-ordinate system?
is this not helping?
[edit:
simian's post makes a good suggestion of why you might need differently oriented sets of (orthogonal?) axes.guess i'll just have to wait 'till nix's birthday...
if this stuff what rev and nix are on about deals with transferring between sets of differently oriented planes, it could well be considered the poi equivalent of m-theory: "who wants a flat brane man - that's soooo 2002"
]cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
well for starters.. I dont know anything about a poalr coordinate system.. I wish I did.. I'm sure it would make things WAY easier..
I also don't know what this m-theory is that you are talking about..
as I said before though.. I dont know if this makes things any 'clearer' but it seems to be a different way that might help some people..
I also want to say that there's a difference between what I'm talking about and what nix is on about... I'm more focused on the 2d vs 3d.. which like I posted above translates nix's system into a 6d instead of 4d system.. I think the 3d vision helps people to 'see' the poi differently enough to make more use of the possible motion range.. not that it really -changes- anything..
nix on the other hand is mroe focused on bringing about the two independent systems.. which can then stand in relation to each other.. whihc also has merits, I think, in bringing a different way of looking at poi... granted it become more complex, but in a weird twist of irony, can also simplify things.. because it keeps you focused on one poi.. rather and what 'it' is doing in relation to itself.. and the consequence of how they come together seems a distant relation to that primary focus..
I dont know if any of that makes any sense to anyone but me.. but to answer one of your other questions.. I just went into the ab vs xy thing to differentiate them.. I could have done x1y1 and x2y2 or lxly and rxry but its all the same..
why are independent grids necessary? I dont think they are.. which is why I'm not sure if this really is more helpful to code them that way... (hence me only beng focused on the move to 3d from 2d.. ) but I just wanted to express what I understood of what nix was presenting in order to somewhat (I hope) clarify his intentions.. For all I know, he'll probably come along and smack me with a newspaper and describe what he is on about.. but for now at least we have some good discussion..
well for starters.. I dont know anything about a poalr coordinate system.. I wish I did.. I'm sure it would make things WAY easier..
I also don't know what this m-theory is that you are talking about..
as I said before though.. I dont know if this makes things any 'clearer' but it seems to be a different way that might help some people..
I also want to say that there's a difference between what I'm talking about and what nix is on about... I'm more focused on the 2d vs 3d.. which like I posted above translates nix's system into a 6d instead of 4d system.. I think the 3d vision helps people to 'see' the poi differently enough to make more use of the possible motion range.. not that it really -changes- anything..
nix on the other hand is mroe focused on bringing about the two independent systems.. which can then stand in relation to each other.. whihc also has merits, I think, in bringing a different way of looking at poi... granted it become more complex, but in a weird twist of irony, can also simplify things.. because it keeps you focused on one poi.. rather and what 'it' is doing in relation to itself.. and the consequence of how they come together seems a distant relation to that primary focus..
I dont know if any of that makes any sense to anyone but me.. but to answer one of your other questions.. I just went into the ab vs xy thing to differentiate them.. I could have done x1y1 and x2y2 or lxly and rxry but its all the same..
why are independent grids necessary? I dont think they are.. which is why I'm not sure if this really is more helpful to code them that way... (hence me only beng focused on the move to 3d from 2d.. ) but I just wanted to express what I understood of what nix was presenting in order to somewhat (I hope) clarify his intentions.. For all I know, he'll probably come along and smack me with a newspaper and describe what he is on about.. but for now at least we have some good discussion..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
?
cole i seem to remember showing you clean box spinning angles
?
cole i seem to remember showing you clean box spinning angles
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