Forums > Social Discussion > Sex Education
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Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
4,172 posts
Location: Hastings, United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok following today's talk by some nurse at school today I think this subject deserved a thread.
The amount of sex ed at my school (or rather the lack of it) really does worry me. I started a thread a while back concerning the numerous amount of pregnant girls at my school and I can't stop thinking that perhaps the proper sex education, these situations could have been avoided.
Today all the year 11 girls were hushed into the hall and this woman with a slideshow presentation began to tell us all about the wonder that is - periods. Sorry to be frank but, 2 years too late love.
I mean this was *really* basic stuff, the kind of info you get when you first join year 7, and yes its important to know but what, we're all 15 comming up 16 now. Surely its basic knowledge by now.
Surely this time would have been better spent talking about contreception? or STD's? or what emotional and/or physical ties come along with sex?
The talk only slightly broke the surface on the symptons of STD's and then quickly moved back onto telling us what tampons were. And we even got our own little 'goodie bag' at the end of the talk *rolls eyes*
We've had one lesson where we got to put a condom on a test tube, but no talk involved. The embarresed teacher buried her head in a book for most of the lesson.
And surely we're old enough to have mixed sex ,sex ed. classes now? nor have we even has a male teacher for one of these classes. and might I add that we havn't even touched on homosexuality or gay sex.
I think that most of britain (most not all) has a problem with sex education, and that most of these horrid situations that people wished they'd never gotten themself's into (pregnacy, STD's) could've been avoided with the right education.
Feel free to comment, state opinions and/or hurl rotten tomatoes at me
Aimz xx
Ok following today's talk by some nurse at school today I think this subject deserved a thread.
The amount of sex ed at my school (or rather the lack of it) really does worry me. I started a thread a while back concerning the numerous amount of pregnant girls at my school and I can't stop thinking that perhaps the proper sex education, these situations could have been avoided.
Today all the year 11 girls were hushed into the hall and this woman with a slideshow presentation began to tell us all about the wonder that is - periods. Sorry to be frank but, 2 years too late love.
I mean this was *really* basic stuff, the kind of info you get when you first join year 7, and yes its important to know but what, we're all 15 comming up 16 now. Surely its basic knowledge by now.
Surely this time would have been better spent talking about contreception? or STD's? or what emotional and/or physical ties come along with sex?
The talk only slightly broke the surface on the symptons of STD's and then quickly moved back onto telling us what tampons were. And we even got our own little 'goodie bag' at the end of the talk *rolls eyes*
We've had one lesson where we got to put a condom on a test tube, but no talk involved. The embarresed teacher buried her head in a book for most of the lesson.
And surely we're old enough to have mixed sex ,sex ed. classes now? nor have we even has a male teacher for one of these classes. and might I add that we havn't even touched on homosexuality or gay sex.
I think that most of britain (most not all) has a problem with sex education, and that most of these horrid situations that people wished they'd never gotten themself's into (pregnacy, STD's) could've been avoided with the right education.
Feel free to comment, state opinions and/or hurl rotten tomatoes at me
Aimz xx
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
About the people who claim to have been 'cured' of homosexuality. In an interview I read (printed in The Guardian in the UK a few months ago) with the main propagator of this theory he admitted that he couldn't actually 'cure' people, but instead he reenforced the stigma of homosexuality to the point that they covered up their true feelings. Psychological examination of his patients revealed they were basically still homosexual, but had just reentered the closet. So, Spitfire, she was probably one of the worst people to speak to
About the people who claim to have been 'cured' of homosexuality. In an interview I read (printed in The Guardian in the UK a few months ago) with the main propagator of this theory he admitted that he couldn't actually 'cure' people, but instead he reenforced the stigma of homosexuality to the point that they covered up their true feelings. Psychological examination of his patients revealed they were basically still homosexual, but had just reentered the closet. So, Spitfire, she was probably one of the worst people to speak to
GOLD Member
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posted:
Sorry that this is getting off topic again, but Burz asked a question or two that I must respond to...
I haven't spoken to her since I came out because she told me that she couldn't be friends with someone like me....because of what she called my choice to live a lifestyle of sin. She made it perfectly clear. You do NOT know what I went through, Burz, not even close. It was a painful time for me, but I never put blinders on.
You've never experienced such self doubt that comes with coming out. You don't know what it's like. I am PROUD of who I am. Do I have blinders on? No. You don't know what I've been through, what experiences I've had since coming out, and some of them are a bit too personal to share here. Suffice it to say, I know what feels right and what doesn't...what makes me happy and what makes me miserable.
I find it offensive that you would compare homosexuality to suicide or self-mutilation. You might as well shout that homosexuality is a psychological issue, when it is not. The three issues are not related.
The coming out process is confusing and painful, but once I realized I could live a happy, healthy life, and be who I am....I had much greater clarity for who I was. Sure, I have to contend with ignorant people who might shout and call me names, or, worse case scenario, decide to beat the crap out of me, but I will not hide who I am just so they can hide in their ignorance.
Sorry that this is getting off topic again, but Burz asked a question or two that I must respond to...
Written by: Burzaruka
If you havn't spoken to her since comming out, why does that mean that it is because of you comming out?
Who in their right mind chooses a path that could lead to pain and suffering? (homosexuality) {I know very few gay people}
Who in their right mind kills themselves? {I know two people who have killed themeselves}
Who in their right mind cuts themselves to ease the pain? {I know one person who is a cutter, and another who I suspect is starting to cut}
Why would anyone choose to do those things?
I haven't spoken to her since I came out because she told me that she couldn't be friends with someone like me....because of what she called my choice to live a lifestyle of sin. She made it perfectly clear. You do NOT know what I went through, Burz, not even close. It was a painful time for me, but I never put blinders on.
You've never experienced such self doubt that comes with coming out. You don't know what it's like. I am PROUD of who I am. Do I have blinders on? No. You don't know what I've been through, what experiences I've had since coming out, and some of them are a bit too personal to share here. Suffice it to say, I know what feels right and what doesn't...what makes me happy and what makes me miserable.
I find it offensive that you would compare homosexuality to suicide or self-mutilation. You might as well shout that homosexuality is a psychological issue, when it is not. The three issues are not related.
The coming out process is confusing and painful, but once I realized I could live a happy, healthy life, and be who I am....I had much greater clarity for who I was. Sure, I have to contend with ignorant people who might shout and call me names, or, worse case scenario, decide to beat the crap out of me, but I will not hide who I am just so they can hide in their ignorance.
Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.
GOLD Member
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posted:
Thanks, Dom. She probably was. She was a friend and was concerned. Unfortunately, she wasn't a true friend, else she'd still be in my life.
I knew that there was question about the validity of the so called cure, but didn't have any concrete references. Thanks for posting this snippet.
Written by: Døm
About the people who claim to have been 'cured' of homosexuality. In an interview I read (printed in The Guardian in the UK a few months ago) with the main propagator of this theory he admitted that he couldn't actually 'cure' people, but instead he reenforced the stigma of homosexuality to the point that they covered up their true feelings. Psychological examination of his patients revealed they were basically still homosexual, but had just reentered the closet. So, Spitfire, she was probably one of the worst people to speak to
Thanks, Dom. She probably was. She was a friend and was concerned. Unfortunately, she wasn't a true friend, else she'd still be in my life.
I knew that there was question about the validity of the so called cure, but didn't have any concrete references. Thanks for posting this snippet.
Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
When I spoke previously on homosexuality being a choice, Lightning asked me why he (someone who wants a wife, wants children) would choose to be gay? Why would they choose a path that is faced with ridicule and pain? I am asking why would someone cause themselves pain or even death? Those questions are one in the same. I have no other answer but, because they choose to. I am not those people, so I can not answer in more detail, I can only speculate the answer.
Why is it fair that I can speculate? Why is it fair for anyone to speculate? Answer that, and I will answer your question.
SpitFire, you are absolutly right, I do not know what you went through, therefore I asked why she decided not to talk to you. Had you said in your first post mentioning your "friend" that she didn't want to talk to you because your path was one of sin, I would not have had to ask that question. It sucks that you got hurt over this, but if you were ever her friend, perhaps you should cherish the good memories of her and take comfort that the pain you went through over loosing a friend is helping that friend maintain a lifestyle that brings them joy. I'm not attacking you, just giving you an honest opinion of the situation that you are or were in. There are many ways to look at things in this world, some we accept some we shun, that is just another way of looking at it.
Dom, I am going to go buy that book I mentioned for you. We will compare notes later about what your good doctor said and what these people are saying. Don't forget medicine in all its forms is a practice and far from perfect. Dom, perhaps your article, has absolutly nothing to do with the book I mentiond. Perhaps it isn't a matter of psycology or covering up theories, but perhaps a change in the choices one has made. Man I really need to go buy that book!
SpitFire, you have the right to be offended at what I said, however, if you follow my chain of logic, all three are choices, all three have the possibility of a negative outcome, all three are related though that and thus are perfect bedfellows.
Let me ask you this, since I am ignorant, how does one know they are gay? I am sure you or someone else will turn around and ask, how does one know they are strait? Perhaps the differance between the two questions is big enough that the answers are completly differant, perhaps the answer is differnt between differnt people.
Mand people put blinders on to many situations, why should homosexuality be any differant?
Why would anyone choose to make a decision that will untamatly lead to a negative lifestyle?
When I spoke previously on homosexuality being a choice, Lightning asked me why he (someone who wants a wife, wants children) would choose to be gay? Why would they choose a path that is faced with ridicule and pain? I am asking why would someone cause themselves pain or even death? Those questions are one in the same. I have no other answer but, because they choose to. I am not those people, so I can not answer in more detail, I can only speculate the answer.
Why is it fair that I can speculate? Why is it fair for anyone to speculate? Answer that, and I will answer your question.
SpitFire, you are absolutly right, I do not know what you went through, therefore I asked why she decided not to talk to you. Had you said in your first post mentioning your "friend" that she didn't want to talk to you because your path was one of sin, I would not have had to ask that question. It sucks that you got hurt over this, but if you were ever her friend, perhaps you should cherish the good memories of her and take comfort that the pain you went through over loosing a friend is helping that friend maintain a lifestyle that brings them joy. I'm not attacking you, just giving you an honest opinion of the situation that you are or were in. There are many ways to look at things in this world, some we accept some we shun, that is just another way of looking at it.
Dom, I am going to go buy that book I mentioned for you. We will compare notes later about what your good doctor said and what these people are saying. Don't forget medicine in all its forms is a practice and far from perfect. Dom, perhaps your article, has absolutly nothing to do with the book I mentiond. Perhaps it isn't a matter of psycology or covering up theories, but perhaps a change in the choices one has made. Man I really need to go buy that book!
SpitFire, you have the right to be offended at what I said, however, if you follow my chain of logic, all three are choices, all three have the possibility of a negative outcome, all three are related though that and thus are perfect bedfellows.
Let me ask you this, since I am ignorant, how does one know they are gay? I am sure you or someone else will turn around and ask, how does one know they are strait? Perhaps the differance between the two questions is big enough that the answers are completly differant, perhaps the answer is differnt between differnt people.
Mand people put blinders on to many situations, why should homosexuality be any differant?
Why would anyone choose to make a decision that will untamatly lead to a negative lifestyle?
BRONZE Member
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Luckily attitudes towards homosexuality seem to have changed for the better these last few years. Quite a few of my pupils are openly gay (11 - 16year olds) and their friends and families give them the support they need - which is cool. Unfortunately, the law hasn't caught up with this change and as a member of staff I would not be able to properly support a pupil who comes out. Homosexuality is not an unnatural state. Putting it on par with suicide and self harm is as disrespectful as saying that Christians are homophobic (when not all of us are). Other animals where homosexuality just as prevalent as in humans include chimpanzees and dolphins - basically the higher mammals (ones most evolved <*
@ Burzaruka *>).
"Who in their right mind chooses a path that could lead to pain and suffering?" was Jesus therefore mad? at some point in all people’s life we have to make decisions that hurt. Not making the right choice and taking the easy option (as dictated by society or whoever) only leads to greater pain.
As for self harm, sometimes when a person feels so much emotional hurt the brain can't understand with how the person is suffering so much without any physical pain and so the brain and body fill this gap. Working with teenagers who are into self harm is one of the hardest aspects of my job, except when they turn suicidal when the work gets even tougher.
The concept of a cure for who a person is is scarily very 1984
!!! Such intolerance for other peoples life styles are often the products of insecurities indicative to oppressive socities and ignorant people. Best to rise above it and try and lead as happy a life as possible. And that is the best way to lead a life - be as happy as possible so long as your happiness does not hurt others - falling in love and having that love returned has to be the best way of achieving this goal. Spitfire and Mand I envy you both (in a 'would like to aspire to way').
Luckily attitudes towards homosexuality seem to have changed for the better these last few years. Quite a few of my pupils are openly gay (11 - 16year olds) and their friends and families give them the support they need - which is cool. Unfortunately, the law hasn't caught up with this change and as a member of staff I would not be able to properly support a pupil who comes out. Homosexuality is not an unnatural state. Putting it on par with suicide and self harm is as disrespectful as saying that Christians are homophobic (when not all of us are). Other animals where homosexuality just as prevalent as in humans include chimpanzees and dolphins - basically the higher mammals (ones most evolved <*
@ Burzaruka *>). "Who in their right mind chooses a path that could lead to pain and suffering?" was Jesus therefore mad?
As for self harm, sometimes when a person feels so much emotional hurt the brain can't understand with how the person is suffering so much without any physical pain and so the brain and body fill this gap. Working with teenagers who are into self harm is one of the hardest aspects of my job, except when they turn suicidal when the work gets even tougher.
The concept of a cure for who a person is is scarily very 1984
!!! Such intolerance for other peoples life styles are often the products of insecurities indicative to oppressive socities and ignorant people. Best to rise above it and try and lead as happy a life as possible. And that is the best way to lead a life - be as happy as possible so long as your happiness does not hurt others - falling in love and having that love returned has to be the best way of achieving this goal. Spitfire and Mand I envy you both (in a 'would like to aspire to way'). >What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
You know what? If there was a cure for it, I'd roll up my sleeve and take it. I wish I weren't gay, but I am so I might as well just accept it and carry on.
You know what? If there was a cure for it, I'd roll up my sleeve and take it. I wish I weren't gay, but I am so I might as well just accept it and carry on.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
You know, I happen to have a Masters degree in molecular biology.
Don't go there. I know more about it than you do.
Written by:
Since religion isn't allowed in schools, with the exception of teaching "Muslim Awareness", creationisim shouldnt be tought, and since evoloution is a laughable claim by any scientific standard it should also not be tought. I personally wasn't tought either, in school.
You know, I happen to have a Masters degree in molecular biology.
Don't go there. I know more about it than you do.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
HOW THE HECK CAN AN 11 YEAR OLD KNOW THEY ARE GAY??? That is a 6th grader! The guy has just begun puberty how?? I am just flabbergasted that... ohh my... who brainwashed this child??
Who would choose to die for another? Thus causing themselves pain and agony? Love, love is a very special kind of madness. Not to mention, Jesus wasn't entirly human
Wait stop, if you being gay hurts your parents, then by the definition
It is like saying doing drugs is okay because it doen't hurt anyone but myself...
Your actions constantly effect the people around you. You can not make a decision in your life that does not effect someone in some way. Action and in-action are always subject to cause and effect.
HOW THE HECK CAN AN 11 YEAR OLD KNOW THEY ARE GAY??? That is a 6th grader! The guy has just begun puberty how?? I am just flabbergasted that... ohh my... who brainwashed this child??
Who would choose to die for another? Thus causing themselves pain and agony? Love, love is a very special kind of madness. Not to mention, Jesus wasn't entirly human
Wait stop, if you being gay hurts your parents, then by the definition
Written by:isnt a good thing!
be as happy as possible so long as your happiness does not hurt others
It is like saying doing drugs is okay because it doen't hurt anyone but myself...
Your actions constantly effect the people around you. You can not make a decision in your life that does not effect someone in some way. Action and in-action are always subject to cause and effect.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Lightning, the creation of the universe through evoloution is laugable and holds no proof.
The cure to your homosexuality lies within your relationship with God and nothing else. It is a sin that can be repented from, but you must do it.
Of course that is my opinion and part of my religious belief. You of course are entitled to your opinion and your own religion.
Lightning, the creation of the universe through evoloution is laugable and holds no proof.
The cure to your homosexuality lies within your relationship with God and nothing else. It is a sin that can be repented from, but you must do it.
Of course that is my opinion and part of my religious belief. You of course are entitled to your opinion and your own religion.
BRONZE Member
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
Not 11 year olds - I teach 11 - 16 year olds. 14 -16 year olds certainly have a good idea about who they are. And I would give some 11 - 16 year old the credit of being mature enough to know who they are. Different people mature at different rates and the 11 - 18 stage is the time when childhood becomes adulthood and different children become adults at different ages.
For people to be happy around you you must be happy yourself. If being gay (nice pun with the word gay - self impressed mode) gives you happiness then the people who love you will come round eventually - if they don't then they just don't love you enough. Its all about choosing the lesser evil.
"Love, love is a very special kind of madness"
Not 11 year olds - I teach 11 - 16 year olds. 14 -16 year olds certainly have a good idea about who they are. And I would give some 11 - 16 year old the credit of being mature enough to know who they are. Different people mature at different rates and the 11 - 18 stage is the time when childhood becomes adulthood and different children become adults at different ages.
For people to be happy around you you must be happy yourself. If being gay (nice pun with the word gay - self impressed mode) gives you happiness then the people who love you will come round eventually - if they don't then they just don't love you enough. Its all about choosing the lesser evil.
"Love, love is a very special kind of madness"
>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
HOGWASH, just because you do not agree with someones decision in life, and never agree with it, it doesn't mean you love them any less. It means that you love them so much that you will not allow them to make a mistake without letting them know about it.
HOGWASH, just because you do not agree with someones decision in life, and never agree with it, it doesn't mean you love them any less. It means that you love them so much that you will not allow them to make a mistake without letting them know about it.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Many teenagers have had awful things happen happen to them after they've come out to their parents. They have been beaten, thrown out of the home (while under age 18, which means you're completely helpless since you can't even get a job without a parent's signature), told "I never want to see you again," ridiculed, called "evil," "sinners," and told "You are no longer my son/daughter."
If you believe that these are acts of love, then I strongly suggest you seek professional help.
As for the evolution debate, I will not hold such a debate with you. You have no formal scientific training. You're about as out of your league arguing evolution with me as I am trying to tell Vanize that Einstein's Theory of Relativity is "hogwash." You aren't interested in learning about evolution, and, frankly, I have better things to do than engage in an exercise in futility.
Many teenagers have had awful things happen happen to them after they've come out to their parents. They have been beaten, thrown out of the home (while under age 18, which means you're completely helpless since you can't even get a job without a parent's signature), told "I never want to see you again," ridiculed, called "evil," "sinners," and told "You are no longer my son/daughter."
If you believe that these are acts of love, then I strongly suggest you seek professional help.
As for the evolution debate, I will not hold such a debate with you. You have no formal scientific training. You're about as out of your league arguing evolution with me as I am trying to tell Vanize that Einstein's Theory of Relativity is "hogwash." You aren't interested in learning about evolution, and, frankly, I have better things to do than engage in an exercise in futility.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
"It means that you love them so much that you will not allow them to make a mistake without letting them know about it"
That's arrogance - sure let them know your opinion but if you love someone then you support them no matter what their decision. In this context the word mistake is relative upon the observer. Think Atticus Finch and walk in someone else’s shoes! People learn by their mistakes far more than not making the mistakes in the first place.
"It means that you love them so much that you will not allow them to make a mistake without letting them know about it"
That's arrogance - sure let them know your opinion but if you love someone then you support them no matter what their decision. In this context the word mistake is relative upon the observer. Think Atticus Finch and walk in someone else’s shoes! People learn by their mistakes far more than not making the mistakes in the first place.
>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.
GOLD Member
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Mand's Girl....and The Not So Shy One
2,723 posts
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Posted:
Negative lifestyle in who's mind? Mine? Certainly not. Yours? Obviously. Your beliefs are so ingrained that you would never be able to see how wonderful my life has been....how blessed I've been. Yes, blessed.
In your mind, it's a perfecly logical argument, apparently. In my mind, it isn't, because all three are not choices. However, I won't change your mind about that, so I won't press this issue further.
No biologist or geologist would say evolution led to the CREATION of the universe, but use it to explain how the species that are around today came to be...their evolution. Talk to a physicist about the big bang if you want the scientific explination of how the universe came into being.
As for being gay hurting my parents? Well My Mother wishes I weren't, I know, but she loves and accepts me as who I am. She would not say she is hurt by my sexuality...though it did take time for her to come to grips with it and understand it. She is incredibly supportive of me and of Mand, as is my Father.
Written by:
Why would anyone choose to make a decision that will untamatly lead to a negative lifestyle?
Negative lifestyle in who's mind? Mine? Certainly not. Yours? Obviously. Your beliefs are so ingrained that you would never be able to see how wonderful my life has been....how blessed I've been. Yes, blessed.
Written by:
SpitFire, you have the right to be offended at what I said, however, if you follow my chain of logic, all three are choices, all three have the possibility of a negative outcome, all three are related though that and thus are perfect bedfellows.
In your mind, it's a perfecly logical argument, apparently. In my mind, it isn't, because all three are not choices. However, I won't change your mind about that, so I won't press this issue further.
Written by:
Lightning, the creation of the universe through evoloution is laugable and holds no proof.
No biologist or geologist would say evolution led to the CREATION of the universe, but use it to explain how the species that are around today came to be...their evolution. Talk to a physicist about the big bang if you want the scientific explination of how the universe came into being.
As for being gay hurting my parents? Well My Mother wishes I weren't, I know, but she loves and accepts me as who I am. She would not say she is hurt by my sexuality...though it did take time for her to come to grips with it and understand it. She is incredibly supportive of me and of Mand, as is my Father.
Solitude sometimes speaks to you, and you should listen.
BRONZE Member
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
can we leave evolution and creatism for another thread
This is a confusing enough topic. Interesting though.
can we leave evolution and creatism for another thread This is a confusing enough topic. Interesting though.
>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.
SILVER Member
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Posted:
Brainwashed?!
If a person thinks they may be gay at this age, why on earth would it have come from brainwashing?
My ex girlfriend went through hell when she was 11. She lived in a 'normal' family, with her mum, dad, and an older brother. She'd also never knowingly met anyone who was gay.
Yet, whilst all her friends had posters of boys on their walls, and discussed which boys they fancied, she had developed the same feelings... but for girls.
So, thinking there was something wrong with her, she told nobody. Eventually, at 13 or 14 (still an early age to come out), she told her mum. Her mum said she had suspected it, but didn't want to say anything.
She's now 23, and very happy.
So, can you please explain to me how she was brainwashed?
Written by: Burzaruka
HOW THE HECK CAN AN 11 YEAR OLD KNOW THEY ARE GAY??? That is a 6th grader! The guy has just begun puberty how?? I am just flabbergasted that... ohh my... who brainwashed this child??
Brainwashed?!
If a person thinks they may be gay at this age, why on earth would it have come from brainwashing?
My ex girlfriend went through hell when she was 11. She lived in a 'normal' family, with her mum, dad, and an older brother. She'd also never knowingly met anyone who was gay.
Yet, whilst all her friends had posters of boys on their walls, and discussed which boys they fancied, she had developed the same feelings... but for girls.
So, thinking there was something wrong with her, she told nobody. Eventually, at 13 or 14 (still an early age to come out), she told her mum. Her mum said she had suspected it, but didn't want to say anything.
She's now 23, and very happy.
So, can you please explain to me how she was brainwashed?
Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Mand, did you get that letter from the International Gay Conspiracy? They've upped the ante.
We now get a free toaster OVEN for each child we recruit.
Mand, did you get that letter from the International Gay Conspiracy? They've upped the ante.
We now get a free toaster OVEN for each child we recruit.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
I have a friend who cuts herself, when she gets upset, how is not doing anything because she is only hurting herself, loveing her? I DO NOT support her decision to friggin hurt herself because I love her. Go ahead, tell me that I am wrong.
If I decide to kill a child, should my parents support my decision?
If I choose to be gay, why should that be any differnt?
Lets just face the fact that I can't change your mind about homosexuality, it's nature or anything else about it and you can't do the same. You can not prove why it should be okay, any more than I can prove to you that it isn't, why? Because we both believe differntly.
However, when we are both standing before the pearly gates, I will be sure to find you and take up the conversation again
I have a friend who cuts herself, when she gets upset, how is not doing anything because she is only hurting herself, loveing her? I DO NOT support her decision to friggin hurt herself because I love her. Go ahead, tell me that I am wrong.
If I decide to kill a child, should my parents support my decision?
If I choose to be gay, why should that be any differnt?
Lets just face the fact that I can't change your mind about homosexuality, it's nature or anything else about it and you can't do the same. You can not prove why it should be okay, any more than I can prove to you that it isn't, why? Because we both believe differntly.
However, when we are both standing before the pearly gates, I will be sure to find you and take up the conversation again
veteran
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey
Posted:
Out of curiosity (genuinely not intended as inflammatory or offensive), Burzaruka, since you really and truly believe that homosexuality is a choice, could you choose to be gay?
To clarify, suspending any moral reasoning, could you honestly say that you would be able to decide to stop being attracted to women, and start being attracted to men?
I'm a straight woman. This does not mean that because I have 'decided' to be straight, I am attracted to men, rather I am classified as straight because I am attracted to men. I can choose which to begin a relationship with, but as far as I am aware I have no conscious control over whom I am attracted to in the first place. I was wondering if you really do. (If so... neat trick- tell me how)
Out of curiosity (genuinely not intended as inflammatory or offensive), Burzaruka, since you really and truly believe that homosexuality is a choice, could you choose to be gay?
To clarify, suspending any moral reasoning, could you honestly say that you would be able to decide to stop being attracted to women, and start being attracted to men?
I'm a straight woman. This does not mean that because I have 'decided' to be straight, I am attracted to men, rather I am classified as straight because I am attracted to men. I can choose which to begin a relationship with, but as far as I am aware I have no conscious control over whom I am attracted to in the first place. I was wondering if you really do. (If so... neat trick- tell me how
) The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.
Always make time to play in the snow.
SILVER Member
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Posted:
I still don't understand how you can compare homosexuality to cutting yourself.
I don't know a lot about self harm victims, but I do know that many people who cut themselves do it as a cry for help.
So if what your saying is correct, then I supposedly tell people that I am gay as a cry for help. Help from what?
I have a great life with the woman I love, and most certainly don't need help from it!
But what I really don't understand is how you can happily sit there and compare homosexuality to murder.
Of course your parents shouldn't support a decision of you killing a child. But I don't see how this relates to me loving my girlfriend.
Anyway, you won't be taking up this conversation with me at the pearly gates... according to you I'll be down below, playing with the fire along with my homosexual mates!
I still don't understand how you can compare homosexuality to cutting yourself.
I don't know a lot about self harm victims, but I do know that many people who cut themselves do it as a cry for help.
So if what your saying is correct, then I supposedly tell people that I am gay as a cry for help. Help from what?
I have a great life with the woman I love, and most certainly don't need help from it!
But what I really don't understand is how you can happily sit there and compare homosexuality to murder.
Of course your parents shouldn't support a decision of you killing a child. But I don't see how this relates to me loving my girlfriend.
Anyway, you won't be taking up this conversation with me at the pearly gates... according to you I'll be down below, playing with the fire along with my homosexual mates!
Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.
BRONZE Member
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Watcher of 80s cartoons
665 posts
Location: Chepstow & Bristol, United Kingdom
Posted:
"If I decide to kill a child, should my parents support my decision?"
No - but if they love you they should support you. Make sure your human rights are not validated during your spell in jail etc etc.
As for your friend who cuts herself - telling her not to its stupid will not help - she knows already. By stressing the point to her further you will only make matters worse - she will think "even my friends don't understand - I'm such a freak" and so the cuts get more frequent and deeper. I.e. you will only worsen the situation by being opinionated.
Self harm is an outward expression of deeper problems. Most self harmers don't know what those problems are - again the situation worsens since they have no idea why they are doing it. Its addictive, pain makes certain people feel alive. When you don't understand situations take the time to research them. Self harm is surprisingly normal. You'd be helping your friend much more if you reassured her of this fact and maybe go as far to tactfully recommend that she uses clean instruments. I'm presuming she is getting help?
Feel free to e-mail me if you want personal advice – I’ve dealt with a lot of self harmers.
My turn to be
Again, the comparison between homosexuality and self harm is a week at best. Any valid points you make Burzaruka, are lost or looked over when such ignorant comparisons are drawn. For the sake of your argument make your point first and then draw up any comparisons, references or any other sources that will back up your argument if they are in fact needed. I’m interested in your points of view but you keep shooting yourself in the foot damn it!
"If I decide to kill a child, should my parents support my decision?"
No - but if they love you they should support you. Make sure your human rights are not validated during your spell in jail etc etc.
As for your friend who cuts herself - telling her not to its stupid will not help - she knows already. By stressing the point to her further you will only make matters worse - she will think "even my friends don't understand - I'm such a freak" and so the cuts get more frequent and deeper. I.e. you will only worsen the situation by being opinionated.
Self harm is an outward expression of deeper problems. Most self harmers don't know what those problems are - again the situation worsens since they have no idea why they are doing it. Its addictive, pain makes certain people feel alive. When you don't understand situations take the time to research them. Self harm is surprisingly normal. You'd be helping your friend much more if you reassured her of this fact and maybe go as far to tactfully recommend that she uses clean instruments. I'm presuming she is getting help?
Feel free to e-mail me if you want personal advice – I’ve dealt with a lot of self harmers.
My turn to be
Again, the comparison between homosexuality and self harm is a week at best. Any valid points you make Burzaruka, are lost or looked over when such ignorant comparisons are drawn. For the sake of your argument make your point first and then draw up any comparisons, references or any other sources that will back up your argument if they are in fact needed. I’m interested in your points of view but you keep shooting yourself in the foot damn it!
>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
You know there are some interesting assosiations Lightning, that seem to award people for their preversions. I wouldn't be supprised if they got toasters every now and then. I believe I sent you a PM a while back about a similer such assosiation.
Could I choose to be gay? I can choose to do anything within the limits of my own existance. I can choose who I am attracted to. There are things about women that I choose not to be attacted to the same as the things that I am. I can honestly say that I can think that a man is attractive and not be gay.
Everybody has a conscience control over who they are attacted to, what body type. I have dated a wonderful woman with curves before. I saw more in her than just her outward appearance. I have also dated a woman with a rather large nose, those are two physical traits that choose not to look for in a woman now days, but I have been attracted to both.
Actually, Mand, since homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven like all other sin, I could very well see you at the pearly gates. Don't be so quick to sell yourself short.
As far as my friend who cuts herself, of course I told her it was a stupid and irrational thing to do, but do you honestly think that I would be so cold hearted to tell her like that? Please give me some form of credit here, I do love the girl, I don't want to see her in more pain!
No she isn't getting help and that agrivates me to no end, I can't seem to get her to realise that every time she cuts, it makes the problems worse not better.
Her life is one that is filled with a lot of pain and misery, something that I strive to keep away from her, a few times at the cost of my own blood on the pavement.
I am not a study of human psycology, nor am I into the study of human anatomy, or even care about Lightning's master of molecular biology... of course everything that he says will go over my head, but the point is, that we go with what we got. Bad grammer I know, but, because we love we try to help.
As far as a weak comparison between self harmers and homosexuals, I don't know how to put it into another analogy.
I was asked why someone would choose to be gay, obviously Lightning is upset that he is gay, or even more so that I feel that he has chosen this path in life.
Why would he choose to be gay? Okay Lightning, why are you gay? What makes you gay? Why do you desire a wife and kids but are attracted to men?
Answer those, and I will tell you why you choose to be gay. Because I'm gay, isn't a good enough answer, I am sure that since you want to be a pediatrition that you have some form of psycology training. Analyse yourself.
Now, when I was asked why anyone would choose to be gay, I drew the parallel, why would anyone choose to cut themselves, why and why would anyone choose to kill themselves?
The parallel meaning, that those are decisions that I DON'T UNDERSTAND!
I don't know why you would choose to be gay.
I don't know why a young woman I love chooses to cut herself vs. seek help for a failing marrage.
I don't know why Mikey and Earl Ray decided to jump off of a friggin bridge.
I wish I could open a book and say, look page 44, HOW NOT TO BE GAY! and hand it over to Lightning.
However, I do know that all sin is a choice, and since homosexuality is a sin, therefore it is a choice.
I don't know how better to explain myself folks.
You know there are some interesting assosiations Lightning, that seem to award people for their preversions. I wouldn't be supprised if they got toasters every now and then. I believe I sent you a PM a while back about a similer such assosiation.
Could I choose to be gay? I can choose to do anything within the limits of my own existance. I can choose who I am attracted to. There are things about women that I choose not to be attacted to the same as the things that I am. I can honestly say that I can think that a man is attractive and not be gay.
Everybody has a conscience control over who they are attacted to, what body type. I have dated a wonderful woman with curves before. I saw more in her than just her outward appearance. I have also dated a woman with a rather large nose, those are two physical traits that choose not to look for in a woman now days, but I have been attracted to both.
Actually, Mand, since homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven like all other sin, I could very well see you at the pearly gates. Don't be so quick to sell yourself short.
As far as my friend who cuts herself, of course I told her it was a stupid and irrational thing to do, but do you honestly think that I would be so cold hearted to tell her like that? Please give me some form of credit here, I do love the girl, I don't want to see her in more pain!
No she isn't getting help and that agrivates me to no end, I can't seem to get her to realise that every time she cuts, it makes the problems worse not better.
Her life is one that is filled with a lot of pain and misery, something that I strive to keep away from her, a few times at the cost of my own blood on the pavement.
I am not a study of human psycology, nor am I into the study of human anatomy, or even care about Lightning's master of molecular biology... of course everything that he says will go over my head, but the point is, that we go with what we got. Bad grammer I know, but, because we love we try to help.
As far as a weak comparison between self harmers and homosexuals, I don't know how to put it into another analogy.
I was asked why someone would choose to be gay, obviously Lightning is upset that he is gay, or even more so that I feel that he has chosen this path in life.
Why would he choose to be gay? Okay Lightning, why are you gay? What makes you gay? Why do you desire a wife and kids but are attracted to men?
Answer those, and I will tell you why you choose to be gay. Because I'm gay, isn't a good enough answer, I am sure that since you want to be a pediatrition that you have some form of psycology training. Analyse yourself.
Now, when I was asked why anyone would choose to be gay, I drew the parallel, why would anyone choose to cut themselves, why and why would anyone choose to kill themselves?
The parallel meaning, that those are decisions that I DON'T UNDERSTAND!
I don't know why you would choose to be gay.
I don't know why a young woman I love chooses to cut herself vs. seek help for a failing marrage.
I don't know why Mikey and Earl Ray decided to jump off of a friggin bridge.
I wish I could open a book and say, look page 44, HOW NOT TO BE GAY! and hand it over to Lightning.
However, I do know that all sin is a choice, and since homosexuality is a sin, therefore it is a choice.
I don't know how better to explain myself folks.
The reason we say "European"
912 posts
Location: Cheltenham
912 posts
Location: Cheltenham
Posted:
"I can choose who I am attracted to."
So you said, Burzaruka, but it's not true.
No one can choose who they are attracted to, they are simply attracted. You can consciously choose to act on that attraction or not, I won't argue with that. But you can't choose who you are attracted to.
I was attracted to a woman once, just was. Was she what I typically looked for in a woman? Far from it but I was attracted to her. I knew that being attracted to her was a bad idea and would likely cost me more than I was willing for it to and it did but I was attracted to her and I couldn't choose not to be.
I was attracted to another woman more recently. I knew she wasn't into me but I couldn't choose not to be attracted to her. I could choose, through personal experience, to keep my attraction to myself and spare our friendship. But I was still attracted to her.
So I don't believe you can choose who you are attracted to. You are attracted to who you are attracted to.
Sexuality is the same thing. You can choose to not act on your sexuality but you can't choose your sexuality.
Humans aren't the only animal on this earth that exhibit homosexuality, but we're the only ones attributed the freedom of choice, will, consciousness.
Are you planning on going and educating gay cheetas, sheep, ducks or swans on the evils of homosexuality? I doubt it. But because a human being can choose some things, you attribute their sexuality as a choice?
I'm not even touching on religion. I don't want to either but suffice to say "the bible says it's wrong" is NOT something I'm buying. You couldn't sell it to me, even on discount. The bible also, I'll point out, doesn't say it's a choice. That's your addition only.
"I can choose who I am attracted to."
So you said, Burzaruka, but it's not true.
No one can choose who they are attracted to, they are simply attracted. You can consciously choose to act on that attraction or not, I won't argue with that. But you can't choose who you are attracted to.
I was attracted to a woman once, just was. Was she what I typically looked for in a woman? Far from it but I was attracted to her. I knew that being attracted to her was a bad idea and would likely cost me more than I was willing for it to and it did but I was attracted to her and I couldn't choose not to be.
I was attracted to another woman more recently. I knew she wasn't into me but I couldn't choose not to be attracted to her. I could choose, through personal experience, to keep my attraction to myself and spare our friendship. But I was still attracted to her.
So I don't believe you can choose who you are attracted to. You are attracted to who you are attracted to.
Sexuality is the same thing. You can choose to not act on your sexuality but you can't choose your sexuality.
Humans aren't the only animal on this earth that exhibit homosexuality, but we're the only ones attributed the freedom of choice, will, consciousness.
Are you planning on going and educating gay cheetas, sheep, ducks or swans on the evils of homosexuality? I doubt it. But because a human being can choose some things, you attribute their sexuality as a choice?
I'm not even touching on religion. I don't want to either but suffice to say "the bible says it's wrong" is NOT something I'm buying. You couldn't sell it to me, even on discount. The bible also, I'll point out, doesn't say it's a choice. That's your addition only.
"We have done the impossible and that makes us mighty" - Mal Reynolds
"I can't tell the difference between an electron and a cat" - Brother of a friend
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
The Bible, may not say out right that sin is a choice, however it does say that repentance is. And since in order to repent you must stop sinning, therefore sin must be a choice. I may not have a degree, but I am well on my way to getting one in New Testiment Studies. I don't reccomend pulling the Bible card on me any more than I would reccomend pulling the molecular biology card on someone with Lightnings education.
The Bible, may not say out right that sin is a choice, however it does say that repentance is. And since in order to repent you must stop sinning, therefore sin must be a choice. I may not have a degree, but I am well on my way to getting one in New Testiment Studies.
I don't reccomend pulling the Bible card on me any more than I would reccomend pulling the molecular biology card on someone with Lightnings education. BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
People!!!! you're going nowhere here, apart from grossly off topic
Everyone: Burzaruka believes every word in the bible is true and nothing will change his mind, it's closed to you. If you want to try the tired old arguements or discuss homosexuality then please do so via PM.
Burzaruka: You're not going to change anyone's minds either.
As we've said before, leave religion out of this discussion. If you feel you can't do this then do not post.
People!!!! you're going nowhere here, apart from grossly off topic
Everyone: Burzaruka believes every word in the bible is true and nothing will change his mind, it's closed to you. If you want to try the tired old arguements or discuss homosexuality then please do so via PM.
Burzaruka: You're not going to change anyone's minds either.
As we've said before, leave religion out of this discussion. If you feel you can't do this then do not post.
Shoryuken!
233 posts
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England
233 posts
Location: Hexham, Newcastle, England
Posted:
I cant speak for Lightning, but I'm presuming the desire for a wife and kids is pretty much part a desire to be the same, part of the majority. People who are different get picked on, beaten up, are given funny looks in the street. The desire for a more 'normal' life would presumably be to avoid the problems that arrise from being different. Black children have been known to try and bleach themselves in an attempt to fit in with their white friends. But in the same way as black people can't choose to be white (with the apparent exception of Michael Jackson) gay people can't choose to be straight.
The difference between self harm and homosexuality is that with self harm, there is a reason for it (to try and ease emotional pain.) We all know this isn't a good reason, but it is a reason. Such a reason does not exist for homosexuality, it is a natural occurance, which is why your analogy will not work.
Respect,
Davy
*edit* sorry Dom, I wrote that before you posted there. Never mind eh?
EDITED_BY: nilid69 (1090194940)
Written by:
Why would he choose to be gay? Okay Lightning, why are you gay? What makes you gay? Why do you desire a wife and kids but are attracted to men?
I cant speak for Lightning, but I'm presuming the desire for a wife and kids is pretty much part a desire to be the same, part of the majority. People who are different get picked on, beaten up, are given funny looks in the street. The desire for a more 'normal' life would presumably be to avoid the problems that arrise from being different. Black children have been known to try and bleach themselves in an attempt to fit in with their white friends. But in the same way as black people can't choose to be white (with the apparent exception of Michael Jackson) gay people can't choose to be straight.
The difference between self harm and homosexuality is that with self harm, there is a reason for it (to try and ease emotional pain.) We all know this isn't a good reason, but it is a reason. Such a reason does not exist for homosexuality, it is a natural occurance, which is why your analogy will not work.
Respect,
Davy
*edit* sorry Dom, I wrote that before you posted there. Never mind eh?
EDITED_BY: nilid69 (1090194940)
enthusiast
233 posts
233 posts
Posted:
Well... perhaps there is some rhyme and reason to things that we do not yet see or understand. It is entirly possible that the world is not flat when it comes to the matter of homosexuality, meaning that what some comprehend now as the current psychy of homosexuals may turn out in the future as all wrong. Just as it was with the earth being flat and what not.
Well... perhaps there is some rhyme and reason to things that we do not yet see or understand. It is entirly possible that the world is not flat when it comes to the matter of homosexuality, meaning that what some comprehend now as the current psychy of homosexuals may turn out in the future as all wrong. Just as it was with the earth being flat and what not.
SILVER Member
member
185 posts
Location: Australia,Vic
member
185 posts
Location: Australia,Vic
Posted:
A cure for homosexuality?
soundlike it a disease, Lightning, I am sure being gay must be difficult, but, do you really wish you were straight. If so how come?
sorry if I have hit a never or something, If you wish not to reply to thesequetions thats fine,
I'm just curius.
Steve
A cure for homosexuality?
soundlike it a disease, Lightning, I am sure being gay must be difficult, but, do you really wish you were straight. If so how come?
sorry if I have hit a never or something, If you wish not to reply to thesequetions thats fine,
I'm just curius.
Steve
"glow bugs, to slow to resist eating, to bitter to eat more than one handfull in a sitting" toothpaste for dinner
SILVER Member
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Keeper of the Spitfire
2,317 posts
Location: Calgary Canada
Posted:
I don't sell myself short at all.
I don't believe homosexuality to be a sin, and I don't want forgiveness from your god or anybody else's.
So I guess I won't see you at the pearly gates.
Following Dom's request from his post earlier, this is the last I have to say on the matter. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Written by: Burzaruka
Actually, Mand, since homosexuality is a sin, it can be forgiven like all other sin, I could very well see you at the pearly gates. Don't be so quick to sell yourself short.
I don't sell myself short at all.
I don't believe homosexuality to be a sin, and I don't want forgiveness from your god or anybody else's.
So I guess I won't see you at the pearly gates.
Following Dom's request from his post earlier, this is the last I have to say on the matter. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Lets steal a spaceship and head for the sun, and shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Xu,
I just want to not be the subject of a civil rights movement. To some people, I'm automatically a hero. Being gay makes me "cool" to people who would otherwise want nothing to do with me. It makes me "evil" to people who would otherwise respect me. It makes me and my relationships into a controversy.
What I want is a stable relationship that will eventually lead to a loving family. I wish that the world would let people like me just be without taking a double-take when I talk about my boyfriend. I wish I didn't have to come out to everyone. I wish I didn't have to worry about discrimination, about getting beat up, about all the bulls**t that I have to deal with just because I happen to be attracted to men.
I wish that people like Burz either didn't exist or that they were treated like white supremacists are today; as sick, evil, twisted, hate-filled people.
Now, excuse me. I'm going to take my sinful self and go and save some babies' lives.
Xu,
I just want to not be the subject of a civil rights movement. To some people, I'm automatically a hero. Being gay makes me "cool" to people who would otherwise want nothing to do with me. It makes me "evil" to people who would otherwise respect me. It makes me and my relationships into a controversy.
What I want is a stable relationship that will eventually lead to a loving family. I wish that the world would let people like me just be without taking a double-take when I talk about my boyfriend. I wish I didn't have to come out to everyone. I wish I didn't have to worry about discrimination, about getting beat up, about all the bulls**t that I have to deal with just because I happen to be attracted to men.
I wish that people like Burz either didn't exist or that they were treated like white supremacists are today; as sick, evil, twisted, hate-filled people.
Now, excuse me. I'm going to take my sinful self and go and save some babies' lives.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
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