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111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
Posted:
Common Sense: Liberals have always loved Conspiracy theories
It’s hard to say exactly when the Democrats decisively left the reservation, for the parallel universe that exists only in their own imaginations. In their world, Bill Clinton was impeached solely because the Republicans were “trying to overturn the election”; Al Gore would be president today if only Jeb Bush hadn’t stolen the election in Florida; and Osama bin Laden is a CIA operative who orchestrated the Sept. 11 to justify the end of civil liberties in the United States. This litany of conspiracy theories barely scratches the surface of the paranoid mentality that currently infects American liberals.
Liberals have always loved conspiracy theories because raising the specter of foul play and dirty tricks is an easy and convenient justification for ignoring their own political and policy failures.
During the 1980 election, Democrats claimed that Ronald Reagan made a secret pact with Iranian fundamentalists, in order to prolong the hostage crisis and cause Jimmy Carter’s support to further hemorrhage. More recently. Leftists attempted to besmirch and Gipper’s legacy with the celluloid equivalent of a drive-by shooting –“The Reagans”- a historically inaccurate made-for television movie starring Barbra Streisand’s husband as Ronald Reagan.
Then there are the persistent conspiracy theories that the CIA or Pentagon generals were responsible for the President John Kennedy’s assassination. One version of this fanciful myth was brought to the big screen by liberal icon Oliver Stone. This myth holds that Kennedy was about to withdraw American forces from Vietnam. And thus was targeted for assassination buy his own subordinates. Of course, the factual record shows just the opposite, but liberals like Oliver Stone have never been overly concerned with facts.
By the time that Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives in 1998, Democrats had turned conspiracy theories into a cottage industry. Hillary had gone public with her claim that a “vast right-wing conspiracy” was at work in America, and Bill had suggested that the Oklahoma City bombing was inspired by conservative talk radio hosts.
Clinton’s impeachment, they insisted, was the product of a sexual witch-hunt and Republican anger over losing the 1996 presidential election. Democrat pornographer Larry Flynt spent tens of thousands of dollars to gather dirt on Republican congressmen. Michael Moore insinuated that Big Business was the behind this “coup” against Clinton. Even the fact that Bill Clinton admitted that “he knowingly gave evasive and misleading answers” and “engaged in conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice” in the Lewinsky case caused the Democrats no pause. Their conspiracy theories rolled on. By 2000, they had Florida to prattle about, and then Sept. 11
The 9-11 terror attack threw the liberal conspiracy machine into high gear. The final death toll hadn’t been confirmed before rumors began that President George W. Bush had advance knowledge of the attacks. Columnist Harley Sorensen writing in the San Francisco Chronicle put the whispers to paper: “Bush knew something was going to happen involving airplanes. His attorney General, John Ashcroft, knew. His national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice, knew. They all knew.”
Howard Dean took the story mainstream by declaring; “The most interesting theory that I have heard so far is that (president Bush) was warned ahead of time by the Saudis.”
Operation Iraqi Freedom has likewise provided grist for the liberal conspiracy stories. Sen. Teddy Kennedy, D-Mass., declared that the whole war was a “fraud made up in Texas.” And when Saddam Hussein was captured, Democrats insinuated that President Bush had deliberately timed his capture for optimum political benefit.
Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., who a year ago undertook a personal mission to Baghdad before the ground invasion commenced, responded to Saddam’s capture by impugning the integrity of the Bush administration. “I don’t know if it was definitely planned on this weekend, but I know they’ve been in contact with people all along who knew basically where he was,” McDermott blabbered to a reporter. “It’s funny, when they’re having all this trouble, suddenly they have to roll out something.”
Instead of condemning McDermott’s remarks as flirting with treason, his cynicism about Saddam’s capture was joined by other Democrats. Howard Dean, the front-runner for the Democrat presidential nomination, insisted that, “America is not safer because of Saddam’s capture.” And former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright suggested to Morton Kondracke of Fox News, “Do you suppose that the Bush administration has Osama bin Laden hidden away somewhere and will bring him out before the election?”
The Democrats’ fondness for Conspiracy theories has crossed the line into rooting for the other team. –all out of spite over President Bush’s leadership in the war on terror. Comments like those of Jim McDermott have gone way past Oliver Stone territory and are beginning to ape the rhetoric of Tokyo Rose. With Howard Dean leading their ticket, the Democrats are on the track to have a2004 convention that resembles an episode of the Twilight Zone.
-Edit- My apologies to all... it would seam that my fingers are not quite what they were and there are several typos. If you would kindly over look them I would really appriciate it.
EDITED_BY: Laytin (1073946536)
Common Sense: Liberals have always loved Conspiracy theories
It’s hard to say exactly when the Democrats decisively left the reservation, for the parallel universe that exists only in their own imaginations. In their world, Bill Clinton was impeached solely because the Republicans were “trying to overturn the election”; Al Gore would be president today if only Jeb Bush hadn’t stolen the election in Florida; and Osama bin Laden is a CIA operative who orchestrated the Sept. 11 to justify the end of civil liberties in the United States. This litany of conspiracy theories barely scratches the surface of the paranoid mentality that currently infects American liberals.
Liberals have always loved conspiracy theories because raising the specter of foul play and dirty tricks is an easy and convenient justification for ignoring their own political and policy failures.
During the 1980 election, Democrats claimed that Ronald Reagan made a secret pact with Iranian fundamentalists, in order to prolong the hostage crisis and cause Jimmy Carter’s support to further hemorrhage. More recently. Leftists attempted to besmirch and Gipper’s legacy with the celluloid equivalent of a drive-by shooting –“The Reagans”- a historically inaccurate made-for television movie starring Barbra Streisand’s husband as Ronald Reagan.
Then there are the persistent conspiracy theories that the CIA or Pentagon generals were responsible for the President John Kennedy’s assassination. One version of this fanciful myth was brought to the big screen by liberal icon Oliver Stone. This myth holds that Kennedy was about to withdraw American forces from Vietnam. And thus was targeted for assassination buy his own subordinates. Of course, the factual record shows just the opposite, but liberals like Oliver Stone have never been overly concerned with facts.
By the time that Bill Clinton was impeached by the House of Representatives in 1998, Democrats had turned conspiracy theories into a cottage industry. Hillary had gone public with her claim that a “vast right-wing conspiracy” was at work in America, and Bill had suggested that the Oklahoma City bombing was inspired by conservative talk radio hosts.
Clinton’s impeachment, they insisted, was the product of a sexual witch-hunt and Republican anger over losing the 1996 presidential election. Democrat pornographer Larry Flynt spent tens of thousands of dollars to gather dirt on Republican congressmen. Michael Moore insinuated that Big Business was the behind this “coup” against Clinton. Even the fact that Bill Clinton admitted that “he knowingly gave evasive and misleading answers” and “engaged in conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice” in the Lewinsky case caused the Democrats no pause. Their conspiracy theories rolled on. By 2000, they had Florida to prattle about, and then Sept. 11
The 9-11 terror attack threw the liberal conspiracy machine into high gear. The final death toll hadn’t been confirmed before rumors began that President George W. Bush had advance knowledge of the attacks. Columnist Harley Sorensen writing in the San Francisco Chronicle put the whispers to paper: “Bush knew something was going to happen involving airplanes. His attorney General, John Ashcroft, knew. His national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice, knew. They all knew.”
Howard Dean took the story mainstream by declaring; “The most interesting theory that I have heard so far is that (president Bush) was warned ahead of time by the Saudis.”
Operation Iraqi Freedom has likewise provided grist for the liberal conspiracy stories. Sen. Teddy Kennedy, D-Mass., declared that the whole war was a “fraud made up in Texas.” And when Saddam Hussein was captured, Democrats insinuated that President Bush had deliberately timed his capture for optimum political benefit.
Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Wash., who a year ago undertook a personal mission to Baghdad before the ground invasion commenced, responded to Saddam’s capture by impugning the integrity of the Bush administration. “I don’t know if it was definitely planned on this weekend, but I know they’ve been in contact with people all along who knew basically where he was,” McDermott blabbered to a reporter. “It’s funny, when they’re having all this trouble, suddenly they have to roll out something.”
Instead of condemning McDermott’s remarks as flirting with treason, his cynicism about Saddam’s capture was joined by other Democrats. Howard Dean, the front-runner for the Democrat presidential nomination, insisted that, “America is not safer because of Saddam’s capture.” And former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright suggested to Morton Kondracke of Fox News, “Do you suppose that the Bush administration has Osama bin Laden hidden away somewhere and will bring him out before the election?”
The Democrats’ fondness for Conspiracy theories has crossed the line into rooting for the other team. –all out of spite over President Bush’s leadership in the war on terror. Comments like those of Jim McDermott have gone way past Oliver Stone territory and are beginning to ape the rhetoric of Tokyo Rose. With Howard Dean leading their ticket, the Democrats are on the track to have a2004 convention that resembles an episode of the Twilight Zone.
-Edit- My apologies to all... it would seam that my fingers are not quite what they were and there are several typos. If you would kindly over look them I would really appriciate it.
EDITED_BY: Laytin (1073946536)
Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
starring Skippy the green llama
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
1,148 posts
Location: Seattle, WA
Posted:
problem is, how ya gonna prove it either way?
misinformation is a disease,,,
problem is, how ya gonna prove it either way?
misinformation is a disease,,,
First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica
" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."
member
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
Posted:
Misinformation is everywhere and in all forms of media. Can you truly trust what you read anymore?
Misinformation is everywhere and in all forms of media. Can you truly trust what you read anymore?
Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
I'd be the first to agree that a lot of what you describe as "liberal" or even "leftist" (didn't think anyone said that anymore!) completely misses the point, or was written by people for their own political ends, or is simply nutty. However, let's look at the equivalent rants from the far Right: the "Red Peril", McCarthy, the detention without trial or representation of suspects (so much for human rights)... frankly I'd rather have the "leftist", government hating conspiracy nutters than anything the Right has to offer.
I'd be the first to agree that a lot of what you describe as "liberal" or even "leftist" (didn't think anyone said that anymore!) completely misses the point, or was written by people for their own political ends, or is simply nutty. However, let's look at the equivalent rants from the far Right: the "Red Peril", McCarthy, the detention without trial or representation of suspects (so much for human rights)... frankly I'd rather have the "leftist", government hating conspiracy nutters than anything the Right has to offer.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Right wing-fanatic conservatives are just as stupid and paranoid. The lesson is fanatics are stupid and paranoid, And stupidity and paranoia is non-partisan.
Right wing-fanatic conservatives are just as stupid and paranoid. The lesson is fanatics are stupid and paranoid, And stupidity and paranoia is non-partisan.
member
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
Posted:
So Laytin, glad to see you're posting articles by people as highly credible as Oliver North
in case anybody wants any more info on this guy:
https://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/oliver-north/
Oliver North is a bad, bad person. Him and others in Reagans regime illegally sold weapons to Iran and used the money to fund the overthrow of a democratically elected government in Nicaragua. This government had free and fair elections (certainly much more so than America). It was beneficial to America's interests install a brutal dictatorship that would be more in agreement with American corporate interests, even if it meant [censored] the people of Nicaragua over.
That's not a conspiracy theory
So Laytin, glad to see you're posting articles by people as highly credible as Oliver North
in case anybody wants any more info on this guy:
https://www.rotten.com/library/bio/usa/oliver-north/
Oliver North is a bad, bad person. Him and others in Reagans regime illegally sold weapons to Iran and used the money to fund the overthrow of a democratically elected government in Nicaragua. This government had free and fair elections (certainly much more so than America). It was beneficial to America's interests install a brutal dictatorship that would be more in agreement with American corporate interests, even if it meant [censored] the people of Nicaragua over.
That's not a conspiracy theory
member
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
Posted:
It is better to be a Right wing lunatic than a left wing anything!
I just posted a good article, if you have a problem with it talk to Oliver North.
It is better to be a Right wing lunatic than a left wing anything!
I just posted a good article, if you have a problem with it talk to Oliver North.
Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
member
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
Posted:
Do you want anybody to take you seriously???
ok, here's my come back..
ready??
here it is...
My daddy's bigger than your daddy, so there
sorry, just had to join Laytin at his maturity level
Quote:
It is better to be a Right wing lunatic than a left wing anything!
Do you want anybody to take you seriously???
ok, here's my come back..
ready??
here it is...
My daddy's bigger than your daddy, so there
sorry, just had to join Laytin at his maturity level
member
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
Posted:
The real comeback wasnt the my daddy is bigger than your daddy comment it was the one after that.
I just have no reply to that other than to be insulting back. But since that is what you want, I obviously can't do that.
The question is, who was the one who started off being immature? When you think about it, all I did was post a (in my opinion) a well written article about someones opinoin that I agreed with. You decided to post your opinion about Oliver North and then tried to insult me over what I posted. Then when I replied with whatever it was that popped to the top of my head, you decided to then call me immature.
So the question still remains, who was the one who was really being immature?
Then you decided to edit your post adding in that little tidbit. I really dont care who Oliver North is was or will ever be. Not to mention that your souce there is probably the most credible one I have ever seen. Isnt rotten.com where you can find pics of decapitated people and worse? Not to mention the Famous Nudes.
Does it really matter who wrote the article? It was a good one.
The real comeback wasnt the my daddy is bigger than your daddy comment it was the one after that.
I just have no reply to that other than to be insulting back. But since that is what you want, I obviously can't do that.
The question is, who was the one who started off being immature? When you think about it, all I did was post a (in my opinion) a well written article about someones opinoin that I agreed with. You decided to post your opinion about Oliver North and then tried to insult me over what I posted. Then when I replied with whatever it was that popped to the top of my head, you decided to then call me immature.
So the question still remains, who was the one who was really being immature?
Then you decided to edit your post adding in that little tidbit. I really dont care who Oliver North is was or will ever be. Not to mention that your souce there is probably the most credible one I have ever seen. Isnt rotten.com where you can find pics of decapitated people and worse? Not to mention the Famous Nudes.
Does it really matter who wrote the article? It was a good one.
Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
member
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
Posted:
where in my original post did I insult you?
I merely stated my opinion (and some facts) about Oliver North.
I didn't even look at the site I found that article, but You are probably right, it is probably not any more credible than Oliver North. I'm sure the people at rotten.com are not such despicable criminals though.
I'm still flabergasted by your comment and the degree to which it demonstrates the dogma you follow. I may lean to the left politically but I would far rather be a thoughtful (if misguided) conservative than a left wing lunatic (like say Chairman Mao)
I apologize for calling you immature though.
where in my original post did I insult you?
I merely stated my opinion (and some facts) about Oliver North.
I didn't even look at the site I found that article, but You are probably right, it is probably not any more credible than Oliver North. I'm sure the people at rotten.com are not such despicable criminals though.
I'm still flabergasted by your comment and the degree to which it demonstrates the dogma you follow. I may lean to the left politically but I would far rather be a thoughtful (if misguided) conservative than a left wing lunatic (like say Chairman Mao)
I apologize for calling you immature though.
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
Wow, Laytin, that's amazing. You'd probably better take that back as quickly as possible. I've never heard anything so manifestly absurd!
Examples of "left wing anything" - Ghandi, Tom Hartnell (shot by Israeli troops whilst filming in Palestine), Nelson Mandela... (arguably became more right wing after he came to power...)
Examples of "Right wing lunatics" - Hitler, Franco, George W Bush, the KKK...
Are you sure you want to stand by that statement? If it was a joke, sorry I missed it, but you might want to think about your attitudes when you can say stuff like that and people take it seriously...
Quote:
It is better to be a Right wing lunatic than a left wing anything!
Wow, Laytin, that's amazing. You'd probably better take that back as quickly as possible. I've never heard anything so manifestly absurd!
Examples of "left wing anything" - Ghandi, Tom Hartnell (shot by Israeli troops whilst filming in Palestine), Nelson Mandela... (arguably became more right wing after he came to power...)
Examples of "Right wing lunatics" - Hitler, Franco, George W Bush, the KKK...
Are you sure you want to stand by that statement? If it was a joke, sorry I missed it, but you might want to think about your attitudes when you can say stuff like that and people take it seriously...
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Comeon, nelson mandella is a violent, terrorist scum bag, who's really pretty damn right wing.
Comeon, nelson mandella is a violent, terrorist scum bag, who's really pretty damn right wing.
member
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
111 posts
Location: bottom left of the US
Posted:
Examples of Left wing anything, Bill Clinton, HILLARY CLINTON, Al Capone, Saddam, OBL, IRA etc...
Examples of Right wing lunatics, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ohh all the founding fathers of the US Abe Lincolin, Martin Luther King Jr. The Pope!!!
C'mon man you can do better than that. We can both pull out a bunch of names both positive and negitive for whatever side. However there is a can of worms being opend up by people who are looking for dirt in a hospital surgery room. (AKA don't read so much into things!) Don't read so much into things, it was just the first thing that popped into my head.
Calm down folks, take the article for what it is and nothing more. It isn't healthy to have such a high level of paranoia.
Examples of Left wing anything, Bill Clinton, HILLARY CLINTON, Al Capone, Saddam, OBL, IRA etc...
Examples of Right wing lunatics, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Ohh all the founding fathers of the US Abe Lincolin, Martin Luther King Jr. The Pope!!!
C'mon man you can do better than that. We can both pull out a bunch of names both positive and negitive for whatever side. However there is a can of worms being opend up by people who are looking for dirt in a hospital surgery room. (AKA don't read so much into things!) Don't read so much into things, it was just the first thing that popped into my head.
Calm down folks, take the article for what it is and nothing more. It isn't healthy to have such a high level of paranoia.
Wisdom calls aloud in the street, she raises her voice in the public squares; at the head of noisy streets she cries out, in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
Laytin, man, I'm sorry, but you have missed the point so completely that it's laughable.
Firstly, calling Saddam left wing is either deeply ignorant, or extremely confused. He was a dictator! Secondly, the only point of my little list of names was to demonstrate the almost comical vacuity of your "better a Right wing lunatic than a left wing anything" comment - coming up with a list of "good" right wingers, (I thought you read history? In the context of their time, most of the people you listed would be described as left wing. And are certainly not shining examples of anything) and "bad" left wingers (thought it was supposed to be "left wing anything", not the worst examples you could think of!) - as you say - gets us nowhere. My only point was that I could think of a whole load of left wingers who anyone would prefer to the right wingers listed. Therefore, your "better a Right wing lunatic..." comment was totally flawed, or a joke. Don't tell me you were serious?
Saddam Hussein left wing!
This is, actually, all a joke, isn't it?
Laytin, man, I'm sorry, but you have missed the point so completely that it's laughable.
Firstly, calling Saddam left wing is either deeply ignorant, or extremely confused. He was a dictator! Secondly, the only point of my little list of names was to demonstrate the almost comical vacuity of your "better a Right wing lunatic than a left wing anything" comment - coming up with a list of "good" right wingers, (I thought you read history? In the context of their time, most of the people you listed would be described as left wing. And are certainly not shining examples of anything) and "bad" left wingers (thought it was supposed to be "left wing anything", not the worst examples you could think of!) - as you say - gets us nowhere. My only point was that I could think of a whole load of left wingers who anyone would prefer to the right wingers listed. Therefore, your "better a Right wing lunatic..." comment was totally flawed, or a joke. Don't tell me you were serious?
Saddam Hussein left wing! This is, actually, all a joke, isn't it?
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
The muslim religion in general is considerd left wing, as the Christian religion is considered to be right wing, so in that aspect I agree with Laytin that Saddam would be left. While his ruleing stile is right, his actions pertaining to his sons is left. The whole drug ring in the Iraqi gov. is a bit twoards the left as you see more pro-drug people being lefters. All in all I believe Saddam does lean a bit more twoards the left than the right.
I don't believe he was too serious after all he did say that it was the first thing that popped into his head.
There are as many great right wing people as there are left wing. Both of you should just drop it because your both acting like morons. Oliver North though a fellow Marine, was a dumbass who broke the law in many ways and then tried to cover it up. Traitor, is a bit harsh IMO, though he does deserve a real jail sentence.
Laytin, the majority of this board is left wing. Most don't like anything to do with the right wing. You can't win here, don't bother trying. Even when you agree with them, they go out of their way to find some fault with what you have just said just because they don't like you. It is just something that you have to get used to if you are going to post here.
The muslim religion in general is considerd left wing, as the Christian religion is considered to be right wing, so in that aspect I agree with Laytin that Saddam would be left. While his ruleing stile is right, his actions pertaining to his sons is left. The whole drug ring in the Iraqi gov. is a bit twoards the left as you see more pro-drug people being lefters. All in all I believe Saddam does lean a bit more twoards the left than the right.
I don't believe he was too serious after all he did say that it was the first thing that popped into his head.
There are as many great right wing people as there are left wing. Both of you should just drop it because your both acting like morons. Oliver North though a fellow Marine, was a dumbass who broke the law in many ways and then tried to cover it up. Traitor, is a bit harsh IMO, though he does deserve a real jail sentence.
Laytin, the majority of this board is left wing. Most don't like anything to do with the right wing. You can't win here, don't bother trying. Even when you agree with them, they go out of their way to find some fault with what you have just said just because they don't like you. It is just something that you have to get used to if you are going to post here.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
Wow... ladies and gentlemen, there we go.
Quote:
The muslim religion in general is considerd left wing, as the Christian religion is considered to be right wing
Wow... ladies and gentlemen, there we go.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
P.S:
Is it any wonder, when he started the thread with a poorly researched, morally vacuous and politically screwed rant from that murderous psycopath North (a dumbass? Is that all you think of him?), and then went on to claim that he'd rather be a right wing lunatic than a left wing anything, that those of us on the board who are left wing are going to get a bit annoyed?
P.S:
Quote:
Laytin, the majority of this board is left wing. Most don't like anything to do with the right wing. You can't win here, don't bother trying. Even when you agree with them, they go out of their way to find some fault with what you have just said just because they don't like you. It is just something that you have to get used to if you are going to post here.
Is it any wonder, when he started the thread with a poorly researched, morally vacuous and politically screwed rant from that murderous psycopath North (a dumbass? Is that all you think of him?), and then went on to claim that he'd rather be a right wing lunatic than a left wing anything, that those of us on the board who are left wing are going to get a bit annoyed?
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
You're right, of course. Has anyone ever established whether they just say these things to wind everyone up? I remember Ray, in a different thread, saying that he could see the beauty in the FAE bombing of that civilian convoy in the first Gulf War... at the time I took it all seriously, but now I know better.
Ray, Laytin, (or Raytin, if you are actually the same person, as someone suggested elsewhere) - you must know that if you post things like political screeds from Oliver North, or that bizarre rant about soldiers being more important than teachers (was that supposed to be Cheney?) on here then you're going to get a lot of people very annoyed very quickly. I think I generally try and make cogent, well supported points, but it's rare that I actually get a decent reply out of either of you. Are you aware of the number of people on the board who no longer even bother to enter into debate with you, because you seem so uninterested in what they have to say? And don't claim that we do the same to you - every point you've made, in the threads I've read, has been carefully answered by someone who's taken time to understand what you're talking about and consider their reply.
If you are posting these things as a joke, or to wind people up, then consider me to have been taken in. Hah hah, it's all very funny when people really care about stuff and you can wind them up. I should have taken everyone's advice when I first started posting replies to your rants, and just not bothered.
You're right, of course. Has anyone ever established whether they just say these things to wind everyone up? I remember Ray, in a different thread, saying that he could see the beauty in the FAE bombing of that civilian convoy in the first Gulf War... at the time I took it all seriously, but now I know better.
Ray, Laytin, (or Raytin, if you are actually the same person, as someone suggested elsewhere) - you must know that if you post things like political screeds from Oliver North, or that bizarre rant about soldiers being more important than teachers (was that supposed to be Cheney?) on here then you're going to get a lot of people very annoyed very quickly. I think I generally try and make cogent, well supported points, but it's rare that I actually get a decent reply out of either of you. Are you aware of the number of people on the board who no longer even bother to enter into debate with you, because you seem so uninterested in what they have to say? And don't claim that we do the same to you - every point you've made, in the threads I've read, has been carefully answered by someone who's taken time to understand what you're talking about and consider their reply.
If you are posting these things as a joke, or to wind people up, then consider me to have been taken in. Hah hah, it's all very funny when people really care about stuff and you can wind them up. I should have taken everyone's advice when I first started posting replies to your rants, and just not bothered.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
member
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
Posted:
Just to make it clear for everybody:
If anybody posted a statement "I would rather be a left wing lunatic than a right wing anything" I would consider that to be exactly as ignorantly dogmatic as what Laytin said.
Do you get it? I'm not taking offense because you are right wing and I am left wing. I am just amazed at what is basically your admission that you are unwilling to put any real thought into your beliefs and would prefer to stick to some rigid ideology, even if it meant being a 'lunatic'
There are and have been many criminal, deranged, murderous lunatics on the left and on the right.
Getting back to the original post on paranoid left wingers and their crazy ideas about right wing conspiracys......
Here's a left wing conspiracy:
Laytin/Ray are actually hard core left wing supporters that have set out to discredit the right by making it look foolish.
Ok, I'm sorry maybe I shouldn't be insulting you, I guess I'm just asking you to put some thought into what you say so that you can actually teach us misguided leftys something. If you are so convinced that you are right then try to convince us. I'm open to any ideas.
When it comes down to it I don't consider myself hard core left wing, because really the problems we have in the modern world are not political so they will not be solved politically. I like to think of the political problems we have as a symptom of the real problem, like diahrea. It's a lot of Sh*t splattering everywhere, but if you stop the sh*t from coming out and making a mess the real problem still lurks inside us...
Just to make it clear for everybody:
If anybody posted a statement "I would rather be a left wing lunatic than a right wing anything" I would consider that to be exactly as ignorantly dogmatic as what Laytin said.
Do you get it? I'm not taking offense because you are right wing and I am left wing. I am just amazed at what is basically your admission that you are unwilling to put any real thought into your beliefs and would prefer to stick to some rigid ideology, even if it meant being a 'lunatic'
There are and have been many criminal, deranged, murderous lunatics on the left and on the right.
Getting back to the original post on paranoid left wingers and their crazy ideas about right wing conspiracys......
Here's a left wing conspiracy:
Laytin/Ray are actually hard core left wing supporters that have set out to discredit the right by making it look foolish.
Ok, I'm sorry maybe I shouldn't be insulting you, I guess I'm just asking you to put some thought into what you say so that you can actually teach us misguided leftys something. If you are so convinced that you are right then try to convince us. I'm open to any ideas.
When it comes down to it I don't consider myself hard core left wing, because really the problems we have in the modern world are not political so they will not be solved politically. I like to think of the political problems we have as a symptom of the real problem, like diahrea. It's a lot of Sh*t splattering everywhere, but if you stop the sh*t from coming out and making a mess the real problem still lurks inside us...
member
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
86 posts
Location: I'm not sure
Posted:
Actually, I don't mind if he does that. Posting the articles doesn't bother me. If he posts articles written by people like Oliver North or an obvious fake Dick Cheney then they will not be taken seriously of course, so I would like to see him post some quality articles by intelligent, respectable people that express his point of view . (surely there must be some???)
Quote:
you must know that if you post things like political screeds from Oliver North, or that bizarre rant about soldiers being more important than teachers (was that supposed to be Cheney?) on here then you're going to get a lot of people very annoyed very quickly.
Actually, I don't mind if he does that. Posting the articles doesn't bother me. If he posts articles written by people like Oliver North or an obvious fake Dick Cheney then they will not be taken seriously of course, so I would like to see him post some quality articles by intelligent, respectable people that express his point of view . (surely there must be some???)
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Yall... enough already. Enough of this gang up on Ray again BS. I am not going to play it yalls way this time.
I don't think that an innocent getting blown to hell is beautiful, I said that I could see the beauty in a perfect strike. If innocents are getting killed then it isn't perfect. Does everyone understand this. *waits for everyone to nod their heads* Good. Another thing, I posted an article with a quote from Cheney at the end. Unfortunatly those that alegidly "think" about what they say, have yet to actually read what I must have posted a good half dozen times. It wasn't written by Cheney, it was an email passed around at work, with a Cheney quote at the bottom. Think about what you say yall. This is the last thing I am going to say anything on this.
Second. Joe if you want to be sarcastic with me, then I will be sarcastic with you, and I can garunte you that you will be calling a mod before the day is done. Let's not go down that road, okedoke?
Next. I said Oliver North was a dumbass, not Laytin. Laytin posted the article not me. Are you seeing a trend here? I am not laytin and Laytin is not me. Do you follow? Is there someone here that does not understand this?
Lastly, I wouldn't try to convert anyone to a right wing way of thought, heaven knows that the last time I tried to say anything about religion I was berated by people I had never even heard of, then Frostypaw came into play and it just went down hill. Right wingisim could be closly related to religion as could leftism. That is the only reason I brought that up.
Lefties/liberals are entitled to their own way of thought, if I have learned only one thing from this board, it is that everyone is entitled to their own way of thought and their own opinions. Just because they differ from you it doesn't mean that they are wrong. It just means that they should be taken out back and shot on Sundays!
J/K
Well with any luck I have ended this with someone getting a tiny bit of a chuckle, I wont be posting in this particuler thread, but if you wish to PM me anything about it feel free. In fact do me a favor and just PM me any replys you wish to make. Have a good day yall. 
Yall... enough already. Enough of this gang up on Ray again BS. I am not going to play it yalls way this time.
I don't think that an innocent getting blown to hell is beautiful, I said that I could see the beauty in a perfect strike. If innocents are getting killed then it isn't perfect. Does everyone understand this. *waits for everyone to nod their heads* Good. Another thing, I posted an article with a quote from Cheney at the end. Unfortunatly those that alegidly "think" about what they say, have yet to actually read what I must have posted a good half dozen times. It wasn't written by Cheney, it was an email passed around at work, with a Cheney quote at the bottom. Think about what you say yall. This is the last thing I am going to say anything on this.
Second. Joe if you want to be sarcastic with me, then I will be sarcastic with you, and I can garunte you that you will be calling a mod before the day is done. Let's not go down that road, okedoke?
Next. I said Oliver North was a dumbass, not Laytin. Laytin posted the article not me. Are you seeing a trend here? I am not laytin and Laytin is not me. Do you follow? Is there someone here that does not understand this?
Lastly, I wouldn't try to convert anyone to a right wing way of thought, heaven knows that the last time I tried to say anything about religion I was berated by people I had never even heard of, then Frostypaw came into play and it just went down hill. Right wingisim could be closly related to religion as could leftism. That is the only reason I brought that up.
Lefties/liberals are entitled to their own way of thought, if I have learned only one thing from this board, it is that everyone is entitled to their own way of thought and their own opinions. Just because they differ from you it doesn't mean that they are wrong. It just means that they should be taken out back and shot on Sundays!
J/K Well with any luck I have ended this with someone getting a tiny bit of a chuckle, I wont be posting in this particuler thread, but if you wish to PM me anything about it feel free. In fact do me a favor and just PM me any replys you wish to make. Have a good day yall.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
Uh actually the diffrence between a dictator and a libertarian is UP AND DOWN on the political spectrum. There are all kinds of leftie dictators and all kinds of righty dictators. There are lefty libertarians and righty libertarians (admitedly rare)
Secondly, the christian religion is right and the muslim religion is left? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Sorry, but you can't say [censored] like that and not get called for it. A lot of muslim countrys are socialist, but theres a shitload that are more extreme right wing then you will ever see in america.
Uh actually the diffrence between a dictator and a libertarian is UP AND DOWN on the political spectrum. There are all kinds of leftie dictators and all kinds of righty dictators. There are lefty libertarians and righty libertarians (admitedly rare)
Secondly, the christian religion is right and the muslim religion is left? That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Sorry, but you can't say [censored] like that and not get called for it. A lot of muslim countrys are socialist, but theres a shitload that are more extreme right wing then you will ever see in america.
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
I think the only way anyone could come across the perception that the "muslim religion is generally left" is if they knew american muslims tend to be left and extrapolated it to the whole world, which is just silly.
American muslims are left because the democrats chase after minority votes a lot.
I think the only way anyone could come across the perception that the "muslim religion is generally left" is if they knew american muslims tend to be left and extrapolated it to the whole world, which is just silly.
American muslims are left because the democrats chase after minority votes a lot.
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
True enough, as it goes. However, many of the central tenets of so called far-left ideology are completely transgressed by the imposition of a single ruler, particularly one like Saddam. So much for "power to the people" - let's gas them if they disagree. Stalin makes a good example of this: he ruled as head of a nominally communist government, yet both the practice of his rule and the political system he espoused had as little to do with theoretical communism as Bush's election had to do with democracy * . So, despite the fact that you could describe Stalin as a "communist dictator" and be at least semantically correct, you'd be missing the point by a large margin. Even in the case of Castro, another supposedly left-wing dictator, though the practice of his government may well be as left-wing as it is possible to be (I have to admit to knowing almost nothing about Cuba - please correct me if I'm totally wrong), his position as unelected and self-interested ruler is anathema to everything that the left holds important.
It's a good point of debate, though - to what degree should governments of nominally left- or right-wing ethos be accountable as examples of their political leanings? Short of having a common indices of success (some sort of average-quality-of-life measurement for citizens of that country, coupled with the effect that the country has on the quality of life of the rest of the world) it's going to be hard to evaluate the success (or otherwise) of any form of government.
Ho hum.
Doesn't really matter anyway - I was alarmed to see Saddan included in the list of left wing villains that Layting posted, but actually whether he is left wing or not isn't really relevant to my reply, which was essentially that it didn't matter how many evil leftie red commie scum Laytin could think of, as he had said he'd rather be a right wing lunatic than a left wing anything .
* Sorry, that was a joke. I couldn't resist it, but it would be too hypocritical of me to have a go about Laytin and Ray winding everyone up, and then do it myself in my next post.
Quote:
Uh actually the diffrence between a dictator and a libertarian is UP AND DOWN on the political spectrum. There are all kinds of leftie dictators and all kinds of righty dictators. There are lefty libertarians and righty libertarians (admitedly rare)
True enough, as it goes. However, many of the central tenets of so called far-left ideology are completely transgressed by the imposition of a single ruler, particularly one like Saddam. So much for "power to the people" - let's gas them if they disagree. Stalin makes a good example of this: he ruled as head of a nominally communist government, yet both the practice of his rule and the political system he espoused had as little to do with theoretical communism as Bush's election had to do with democracy * . So, despite the fact that you could describe Stalin as a "communist dictator" and be at least semantically correct, you'd be missing the point by a large margin. Even in the case of Castro, another supposedly left-wing dictator, though the practice of his government may well be as left-wing as it is possible to be (I have to admit to knowing almost nothing about Cuba - please correct me if I'm totally wrong), his position as unelected and self-interested ruler is anathema to everything that the left holds important.
It's a good point of debate, though - to what degree should governments of nominally left- or right-wing ethos be accountable as examples of their political leanings? Short of having a common indices of success (some sort of average-quality-of-life measurement for citizens of that country, coupled with the effect that the country has on the quality of life of the rest of the world) it's going to be hard to evaluate the success (or otherwise) of any form of government.
Ho hum.
Doesn't really matter anyway - I was alarmed to see Saddan included in the list of left wing villains that Layting posted, but actually whether he is left wing or not isn't really relevant to my reply, which was essentially that it didn't matter how many evil leftie red commie scum Laytin could think of, as he had said he'd rather be a right wing lunatic than a left wing anything .
* Sorry, that was a joke. I couldn't resist it, but it would be too hypocritical of me to have a go about Laytin and Ray winding everyone up, and then do it myself in my next post.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
member
531 posts
531 posts
Posted:
One of the things that I am getting tired of seeing,reading or hearing about in the States is this little battle as you could call it between the far left and far right.
Every pundit on the block has to state their point by targeting specifically either the liberals or the conservatives never minding that some ideals of both sides are shared.
Granted I don't know any of you but I don't think it would be incomprehendable to assume that while you may be left or right, that none of you are totally biased to one side or the other.Or what I mean is while you may adhere to most of the principles of one side doesn't mean you don't occasionally find a point in principles of the other.
Personally I would rather be a rational,independent and fair minded individual than have to pick which boat I want to sink with.
Does that make me a centrist? What about you?
One of the things that I am getting tired of seeing,reading or hearing about in the States is this little battle as you could call it between the far left and far right.
Every pundit on the block has to state their point by targeting specifically either the liberals or the conservatives never minding that some ideals of both sides are shared.
Granted I don't know any of you but I don't think it would be incomprehendable to assume that while you may be left or right, that none of you are totally biased to one side or the other.Or what I mean is while you may adhere to most of the principles of one side doesn't mean you don't occasionally find a point in principles of the other.
Personally I would rather be a rational,independent and fair minded individual than have to pick which boat I want to sink with.
Does that make me a centrist? What about you?
mULti-torTOISe
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
310 posts
Location: Kent currently, Cornwall soon, New Zealand eventua...
Posted:
I'm sure that that's exactly how we all think of ourselves. However, your independant and fair minded analysis of a situation, influenced by your upbringing, your education, the society you're in and the information you're analysing will probably, depending on the issue in question, lead you to an opinion which could be categorised as either 'right' or 'left'.
In this thread, which was started when Laytin decided to post a particularly rabid and mindless anti-liberal rant attributed to that paragon of political thought and morality Oliver North, we aren't really debating any of those issues. If you have a look through some of the other threads in this forum you may find one or two where some serious debate goes on. In this one, it's just the same old sh*t, different thread.
Welcome to purgatory.
Quote:
Personally I would rather be a rational,independent and fair minded individual than have to pick which boat I want to sink with.
I'm sure that that's exactly how we all think of ourselves. However, your independant and fair minded analysis of a situation, influenced by your upbringing, your education, the society you're in and the information you're analysing will probably, depending on the issue in question, lead you to an opinion which could be categorised as either 'right' or 'left'.
In this thread, which was started when Laytin decided to post a particularly rabid and mindless anti-liberal rant attributed to that paragon of political thought and morality Oliver North, we aren't really debating any of those issues. If you have a look through some of the other threads in this forum you may find one or two where some serious debate goes on. In this one, it's just the same old sh*t, different thread.
Welcome to purgatory.
The Confusion Squid has many tentacles
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