Forums > Social Chat > Death, and other stuff
Login/Join to Participateprofessional pedant
137 posts
Location: Bristol
137 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
OK. Before I start for real, a few things:
1. I'm a bit drunk
2. See above
Today at work I found out that one of my colleagues comitted suicide in wednesday night. He was someone that I didn't know particularly well but still someone who I saw every day and would feel happy making small talk with or sharing a pint with etc.
What I'm about to say may sound a bit cold... I'm not really sad about the fact that he's dead. I mean, if he had left work and got another job and i'd never seen him again I would have thought nothing of it.
I don't know how to write down what i'm feeling but that's not really what i'm writing about.
What I really want to discuss is this: At what point do real feelings cross over into what society tells us we should feel. I can;t help but think that I should be more upset than I am. this is a guy who I have seen nearly every day for the last 6 months but I'm not that phased by it all and I'm worried that I should be feeling more than I am. He was never someone I saw as becoming a long-term friend but simply because I don't gel with everyone that I meet in the same way that others don't necessarily gel with me.
Again, all of the above paragraph sounds really callous and cold but doesn't sum up how I feel. I just can't think of the words to describe it.
I'm still not really sure what the point of this post is. I've not had anyone to talk to about this properly yet (all my friends and flatmates are out on the town tonight) so I think maybe I'm just off-loading some [censored] because of that.
Anyway. thanks for reading. I feel a lot better just for having written that stuff down. Maybe I should start a diary or blog - I can so see how it helps people sort their thoughts out!
I just read all of that stuff before posting it and it still sounds like I really don't care, which is not the truth at all. I'm writing this because I'm sitting here feeling really low about the whole thing and just need to gain some perspective in the situation.
bah. sod it. I'm gonna post it. make of it what you will.
OK. Before I start for real, a few things:
1. I'm a bit drunk
2. See above
Today at work I found out that one of my colleagues comitted suicide in wednesday night. He was someone that I didn't know particularly well but still someone who I saw every day and would feel happy making small talk with or sharing a pint with etc.
What I'm about to say may sound a bit cold... I'm not really sad about the fact that he's dead. I mean, if he had left work and got another job and i'd never seen him again I would have thought nothing of it.
I don't know how to write down what i'm feeling but that's not really what i'm writing about.
What I really want to discuss is this: At what point do real feelings cross over into what society tells us we should feel. I can;t help but think that I should be more upset than I am. this is a guy who I have seen nearly every day for the last 6 months but I'm not that phased by it all and I'm worried that I should be feeling more than I am. He was never someone I saw as becoming a long-term friend but simply because I don't gel with everyone that I meet in the same way that others don't necessarily gel with me.
Again, all of the above paragraph sounds really callous and cold but doesn't sum up how I feel. I just can't think of the words to describe it.
I'm still not really sure what the point of this post is. I've not had anyone to talk to about this properly yet (all my friends and flatmates are out on the town tonight) so I think maybe I'm just off-loading some [censored] because of that.
Anyway. thanks for reading. I feel a lot better just for having written that stuff down. Maybe I should start a diary or blog - I can so see how it helps people sort their thoughts out!
I just read all of that stuff before posting it and it still sounds like I really don't care, which is not the truth at all. I'm writing this because I'm sitting here feeling really low about the whole thing and just need to gain some perspective in the situation.
bah. sod it. I'm gonna post it. make of it what you will.
A warrior always returns to the fray. He never does so out of stubbornness, but because he has noticed a change in the weather - Paulo Coelho
(*) (*) .. for the gnor ;)
2,568 posts
Location: sitting on the step
2,568 posts
Location: sitting on the step
Posted:
off load what you will no worries thats what we're here for
and it doesnt make you a bad person for not feeling anything! you didnt know him as a close friend, or maybe you're alittle shocked by it and it has sunk in yet?! who knows, but yeaah try talk to you mates and maybe that'll make you feel better
take care
ps LOVE the advatar
off load what you will no worries thats what we're here for
and it doesnt make you a bad person for not feeling anything! you didnt know him as a close friend, or maybe you're alittle shocked by it and it has sunk in yet?! who knows, but yeaah try talk to you mates and maybe that'll make you feel better
take care
ps LOVE the advatar
she who sees from up high smiles
Patrick badger king: *they better hope there's never a jihad on stupidity*
SILVER Member
Ghostbuster
455 posts
Location: York, UK
Ghostbuster
455 posts
Location: York, UK
Posted:
there's nothing wrong with the way you feel about it. if i was in your position the suicide of someone i didn't really know wouldn't really bother me too much either.
there's nothing wrong with the way you feel about it. if i was in your position the suicide of someone i didn't really know wouldn't really bother me too much either.
old hand
1,024 posts
Location: london
1,024 posts
Location: london
Posted:
people have diffrent levels of frendships, this is normal, most people (but not everyone) will have many mates but only a few close friends.
the fact that you a posting this message shows mabie at a level you did care.
if we were devistated at the death or misfortunes of every one around us, mankind would be nothing but emotional recks.
eather way if you feel the need to vent some more then fire away.
hope all works out.
be happy
mike
people have diffrent levels of frendships, this is normal, most people (but not everyone) will have many mates but only a few close friends.
the fact that you a posting this message shows mabie at a level you did care.
if we were devistated at the death or misfortunes of every one around us, mankind would be nothing but emotional recks.
eather way if you feel the need to vent some more then fire away.
hope all works out.
be happy
mike
Climbing up my leg
141 posts
Location: England
141 posts
Location: England
Posted:
I've been in a similar situation and felt a similar way too.
The church warden at my Dad's church embezzled all the church's money and was caught. He'd been doing it for years and ended up in court, but on the day of his trial he didn't turn up and when they went to his house they found he'd hung himself.
I'd met him a few times and he's been round to our house for dinner but I wasn't really upset. I was sad that he'd been so low he'd done it but I didn't really know him. I think it's a good thing not to make a big show of being upset when you're not. I remember feeling kind of sick when Princess Diana died because there were all these people who never met her crying and it made it seem really cheap, when her sons tears were real tears. They knew her and loved her just like the guy you worked with probably has a family that loved him. I certainly wont want people I barely know being upset when I die, just the people I really matter to.
Just my two cents.
Jess
I've been in a similar situation and felt a similar way too.
The church warden at my Dad's church embezzled all the church's money and was caught. He'd been doing it for years and ended up in court, but on the day of his trial he didn't turn up and when they went to his house they found he'd hung himself.
I'd met him a few times and he's been round to our house for dinner but I wasn't really upset. I was sad that he'd been so low he'd done it but I didn't really know him. I think it's a good thing not to make a big show of being upset when you're not. I remember feeling kind of sick when Princess Diana died because there were all these people who never met her crying and it made it seem really cheap, when her sons tears were real tears. They knew her and loved her just like the guy you worked with probably has a family that loved him. I certainly wont want people I barely know being upset when I die, just the people I really matter to.
Just my two cents.
Jess
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
It's tough, isn't it?
Someone dies and you're not completely blown away by it and for some reason, this internalized guilt pops out and you feel horrible for not feeling worse about it.
Personally, I say screw that. When my father died, yeah, I was sad and yeah I cried. But two weeks later, I delivered a baby for the first time. Life must move on.
At my father's funeral, I talked about the fact that he didn't want anyone to be sad when he died because, in his view, he had lived to 81, he had a big, loving family, and he had lived a long, full life. But I disagreed. In my speech, I said that I hope that people are sad when I die because that will mean that I will have touched their lives in a special way. After all, it's not death itself that we mourn, but the loss of that person's presence in our lives. That's why I seemed to be particularly unbothered when that patient of mine died last week. I had never met the man.
So I think that it's perfectly normal and natural to feel a sense of loss proportional with the degree of impact that he had on your life. My father had a huge impact on my life. His friends were not as sad as I was because his impact on their life was smaller than it was on mine. And the doctors who cared for him at the end and who knew him a bit were even less sad, because his impact on their lives had been minimal. I think it's a good way of thinking about it.
So it's a bit disturbing that a young, otherwise healthy man should die so suddenly of such a cause, but the fact is that he wasn't a major force in your life and that you're not going to miss him all that much. So I wouldn't beat myself up over it.
It's tough, isn't it?
Someone dies and you're not completely blown away by it and for some reason, this internalized guilt pops out and you feel horrible for not feeling worse about it.
Personally, I say screw that. When my father died, yeah, I was sad and yeah I cried. But two weeks later, I delivered a baby for the first time. Life must move on.
At my father's funeral, I talked about the fact that he didn't want anyone to be sad when he died because, in his view, he had lived to 81, he had a big, loving family, and he had lived a long, full life. But I disagreed. In my speech, I said that I hope that people are sad when I die because that will mean that I will have touched their lives in a special way. After all, it's not death itself that we mourn, but the loss of that person's presence in our lives. That's why I seemed to be particularly unbothered when that patient of mine died last week. I had never met the man.
So I think that it's perfectly normal and natural to feel a sense of loss proportional with the degree of impact that he had on your life. My father had a huge impact on my life. His friends were not as sad as I was because his impact on their life was smaller than it was on mine. And the doctors who cared for him at the end and who knew him a bit were even less sad, because his impact on their lives had been minimal. I think it's a good way of thinking about it.
So it's a bit disturbing that a young, otherwise healthy man should die so suddenly of such a cause, but the fact is that he wasn't a major force in your life and that you're not going to miss him all that much. So I wouldn't beat myself up over it.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Sponge
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
Posted:
Yeah, unfortunately I guess everyone has experiences like that, I have but I don't want to post about it because I haven't sorted myself out about it yet but yeah, life goes on as well. Death's a part of life and I agree with Lightning, we don't mourn for death we mourn for the loss of the presence in your life. I still go out and feel a little hollow when I realise ******* isn't there but seen as how you didn't know him that well how can you miss him?? You're not cold
I just deleted everything else I was going to say because it only makes sense to me!!!
I hope you lift your spirits soon
Yeah, unfortunately I guess everyone has experiences like that, I have but I don't want to post about it because I haven't sorted myself out about it yet but yeah, life goes on as well. Death's a part of life and I agree with Lightning, we don't mourn for death we mourn for the loss of the presence in your life. I still go out and feel a little hollow when I realise ******* isn't there but seen as how you didn't know him that well how can you miss him?? You're not cold
I just deleted everything else I was going to say because it only makes sense to me!!!
I hope you lift your spirits soon
Monkeys monkeys and bananas
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,899 posts
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Posted:
As usual, I agree with Lightning.
When my mother's mother died, I didn't feel sad for any reason other than because my mother was sad. I never liked her mom, and the little time I spent with her I was busy finding ways to avoid her. She had been painfully ill for a couple years before she died, and had started to feel genuinly sorry for her because of that, so I was actually relieved and almost happy for her when she passed. I never shed a single tear for her or even came close to doing so. I also never felt guilty about that for some reason.
Two years later my dad died. 10 years later I still get very emotional about that on a regular basis. I don't feel guilty about that either.
As usual, I agree with Lightning.
When my mother's mother died, I didn't feel sad for any reason other than because my mother was sad. I never liked her mom, and the little time I spent with her I was busy finding ways to avoid her. She had been painfully ill for a couple years before she died, and had started to feel genuinly sorry for her because of that, so I was actually relieved and almost happy for her when she passed. I never shed a single tear for her or even came close to doing so. I also never felt guilty about that for some reason.
Two years later my dad died. 10 years later I still get very emotional about that on a regular basis. I don't feel guilty about that either.
-v-
Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
I'm with GottaLoveIt, I recently had someone very close to me commit sucide, and am still dealing with it. But that you didn't feel much for his passing does not make you cold. You didn't know him well. Sounds more like you have a little survivors guilt, at having been neer him without helping him. For those of us who feel so attached to life, the choice of someone to end it seems so out of place.
I kinda dealt with it by reminding myself that it was his choice. Just because you were there doesn't mean you can help. In looking back, yeah, theres a lot of stuff I think I could have done to help ******, but at the same time I realize that if I had, I wouldn't have been living my life according to my knowledge at that time. Knowing what you know now may make it feel like there was something you should have done, but think back to when you would have had to make those choices. Knowing what you knew THEN, would you have done something different reguardless of what you know now.
This person made a choice. There is no reason to believe he made a bad choice just because it is not something you would do. The emotional situation of different people can never be exactly the same... we can learn to be more XXXXX in our lives from such situations, but to blame yourself for your FEELINGS is silly. I found it beter to acknowledge my feelings and choose my path accordingly. If your always looking backward you can't see where your going. Better to accept where you've been and use it to guide your future. If you think you're being too apathetic to the situation, then try and be more loving to those around you. If it doesn't bother you to be detached from such a situation, then be that. Too often we try to fight our nature because we think it is "wrong". Without knowing that, how do you know who you really are?
Oh, and I'm a little drunk too. And a little Taoist. 
I'm with GottaLoveIt, I recently had someone very close to me commit sucide, and am still dealing with it. But that you didn't feel much for his passing does not make you cold. You didn't know him well. Sounds more like you have a little survivors guilt, at having been neer him without helping him. For those of us who feel so attached to life, the choice of someone to end it seems so out of place.
I kinda dealt with it by reminding myself that it was his choice. Just because you were there doesn't mean you can help. In looking back, yeah, theres a lot of stuff I think I could have done to help ******, but at the same time I realize that if I had, I wouldn't have been living my life according to my knowledge at that time. Knowing what you know now may make it feel like there was something you should have done, but think back to when you would have had to make those choices. Knowing what you knew THEN, would you have done something different reguardless of what you know now.
This person made a choice. There is no reason to believe he made a bad choice just because it is not something you would do. The emotional situation of different people can never be exactly the same... we can learn to be more XXXXX in our lives from such situations, but to blame yourself for your FEELINGS is silly. I found it beter to acknowledge my feelings and choose my path accordingly. If your always looking backward you can't see where your going. Better to accept where you've been and use it to guide your future. If you think you're being too apathetic to the situation, then try and be more loving to those around you. If it doesn't bother you to be detached from such a situation, then be that. Too often we try to fight our nature because we think it is "wrong". Without knowing that, how do you know who you really are?
Oh, and I'm a little drunk too.
And a little Taoist. BRONZE Member
member
71 posts
Location: Cornwall/ Brighton, England
member
71 posts
Location: Cornwall/ Brighton, England
Posted:
you cant berate yourself for your feelings and i dont belive you have anything to feel guilty for and no real reason to feel sad at specifically HIS passing.
A guy on my boyfriends course here at uni who was friends with a few of my freinds and i vaugly knew was killed a few days ago in a car crash, i find this terribly sad that his life should have been cut short and feel for his friends and relations but i cant feel specifically upset. Im not going to break down about it and am able to dismiss it from my mind fairly easily. I felt bad at first about this but realise reading your thread that this is normal. And its self preservation... as someone said (sorry cant remember who) if we all went around mourning every last person we vaugly knew we'd be a nation of very upset people and never live our own lives.
I also feel that it would almost cheapen the mourning for those we really did care about. The fact that we thought about it enough to feel anything proves us human and sympathetic but we cant be expected to feel as strongly as we would if a closer friend/relation died and rightly so... because we are mourning their presance in our lives and they had a much bigger presance and effect than others. (to paraphrase another very right person)
dont feel bad you didnt feel stronger feel glad you felt anything at all.
you cant berate yourself for your feelings and i dont belive you have anything to feel guilty for and no real reason to feel sad at specifically HIS passing.
A guy on my boyfriends course here at uni who was friends with a few of my freinds and i vaugly knew was killed a few days ago in a car crash, i find this terribly sad that his life should have been cut short and feel for his friends and relations but i cant feel specifically upset. Im not going to break down about it and am able to dismiss it from my mind fairly easily. I felt bad at first about this but realise reading your thread that this is normal. And its self preservation... as someone said (sorry cant remember who) if we all went around mourning every last person we vaugly knew we'd be a nation of very upset people and never live our own lives.
I also feel that it would almost cheapen the mourning for those we really did care about. The fact that we thought about it enough to feel anything proves us human and sympathetic but we cant be expected to feel as strongly as we would if a closer friend/relation died and rightly so... because we are mourning their presance in our lives and they had a much bigger presance and effect than others. (to paraphrase another very right person)
dont feel bad you didnt feel stronger feel glad you felt anything at all.
member
80 posts
Location: Crawley
80 posts
Location: Crawley
Posted:
I am going to sound totally coldhearted but I just cant help it.
I have no guilt or remorse whatsoever for someone that commits suicide. The selfish act of someone who does this has no guilt or remorse about the people he or she is going to leave behind or the devastation to the people that surround them.
Dont let that selfish person infect your mind.
You have nothing to be guilty about
I am going to sound totally coldhearted but I just cant help it.
I have no guilt or remorse whatsoever for someone that commits suicide. The selfish act of someone who does this has no guilt or remorse about the people he or she is going to leave behind or the devastation to the people that surround them.
Dont let that selfish person infect your mind.
You have nothing to be guilty about
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Ok, but in general, suicide is the result of depression. It can be the result of an acute event (bankruptsy, etc.) but in general it's the result of depression, which is a disease, and a lethal disease at that (hence...suicide).
So depending on the situation, I normally take suicide as the endpoint of a devastating disease that may have gone untreated. And that's why I have sympathy for those who have taken their lives.
Quote:
I am going to sound totally coldhearted but I just cant help it.
I have no guilt or remorse whatsoever for someone that commits suicide. The selfish act of someone who does this has no guilt or remorse about the people he or she is going to leave behind or the devastation to the people that surround them.
Dont let that selfish person infect your mind.
You have nothing to be guilty about
Ok, but in general, suicide is the result of depression. It can be the result of an acute event (bankruptsy, etc.) but in general it's the result of depression, which is a disease, and a lethal disease at that (hence...suicide).
So depending on the situation, I normally take suicide as the endpoint of a devastating disease that may have gone untreated. And that's why I have sympathy for those who have taken their lives.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
All the neurotic makings of America's lesser known sweetheart
9,831 posts
Location: body in Las Vegas, heart all around the world, USA
Posted:
well put lightning. i couldn't have said it better myself.
well put lightning. i couldn't have said it better myself.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
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