Forums > Social Chat > Mainstream Fire Art
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
member
5 posts
Location: Minnesota, USA
member
5 posts
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posted:
I thought the new poll deserved a thread.
Do you think it would be good or bad if fire spinning became mainstream?
I thought the new poll deserved a thread.
Do you think it would be good or bad if fire spinning became mainstream?
If love is all and love is everyone. Is it knowing? Is it knowing?!
member
54 posts
Location: vodka-country... and it's VERY COLD here
54 posts
Location: vodka-country... and it's VERY COLD here
Posted:
My reply to
...
...
...
you're cool...
My reply to
Quote:...
one of those people who are only doing fire stuff to be "cool"
...
...
...
you're cool...
when it gets colder that -25, you don't really care
BRONZE Member
member
89 posts
Location: Plymouth, UK
member
89 posts
Location: Plymouth, UK
Posted:
Well I am from plymouth i can't see Poi as mainstream down here at the moment - but i have to admit they are being sold alot more down here than they used to.
If it was mainstream or going mainstream there would be more people or a bigger 'known' community i mean i know there are people are around plymouth the use poi but hell if i can find them lol or any that would be willing to help teach me.
It would be a shame if poi/fire poi or whatever else became mainstream as someone who has been doing it a while even though they become really good wont be respected so much as they should be.
(although i have yet to get to any good level so am just seen as a circus freak who doesnt mind gettin hit on the head with swinging balls)
Well I am from plymouth i can't see Poi as mainstream down here at the moment - but i have to admit they are being sold alot more down here than they used to.
If it was mainstream or going mainstream there would be more people or a bigger 'known' community i mean i know there are people are around plymouth the use poi but hell if i can find them lol or any that would be willing to help teach me.
It would be a shame if poi/fire poi or whatever else became mainstream as someone who has been doing it a while even though they become really good wont be respected so much as they should be.
(although i have yet to get to any good level so am just seen as a circus freak who doesnt mind gettin hit on the head with swinging balls) Burn !
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
i find actions are a better guide for respect than twirling abilities. i think regardless of how many twirlers there are u will recieve recognition of your abilities from other twirlers. as far as the general public goes i find that an audience can quite quickly pick an advanced twiler from a beginner i personally dont put to much value on that sort of recognition i twirl for me and me alone
Quote:
It would be a shame if poi/fire poi or whatever else became mainstream as someone who has been doing it a while even though they become really good wont be respected so much as they should be
i find actions are a better guide for respect than twirling abilities. i think regardless of how many twirlers there are u will recieve recognition of your abilities from other twirlers. as far as the general public goes i find that an audience can quite quickly pick an advanced twiler from a beginner i personally dont put to much value on that sort of recognition i twirl for me and me alone
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I'm just going to post my thoughts from the other "mainstream" thread here. (Don't hurt me, Pele! ;-) )
I guess the issue that comes up here that really bugs me is this concept that somehow "we" (whoever "we" are) somehow own spinning and that "they" (whoever "they" are) would somehow contaminate "our" art by becoming involved in it.
It also implies this stereotype that spinners need to be a certain type of person, some sort of dredlocked, hippie, crunchy raver who smokes a lot of pot. Yes, many of us fit that stereotype, but many of us don't. I'm 18 months away from becoming an M.D., and I'm one of two spinners in my class. Regyt is 18 months away from becoming a lawyer. We also have engineers, scientists (Vanize is a Ph.D. astrophysicist), executives, and military folks who spin.
Ultimately, I believe that the only thing that need hold us together is our love for our art.
I wonder what the original Maori poi spinners would think of what we've done to "their" art? I think that most of them would be appalled, thinking of what we do as a disgrace to their art, rather than honoring it. I would hope that we've transcended such a conservative viewpoint of who "should" and "shouldn't" be spinning.
There will always be people who pick up poi for a while, think they're good, but never advance. They also tend to get bored and put it down. The people who advance and get good are the ones who love the art and who enjoy practicing it. Whether we all like each-other or get along is not important.
Fact is that I got into this when it was a much smaller scene than it is. And yet I certainly didn't invent it. I've watched it grow over the years, I've watched wonderful new people come into our community, and I've met amazing people who I might never have met otherwise.
I'll also remind everyone that juggling (even juggling with fire) is mainstream. It's well-recognized, everyone in our society knows what it is, and many people do it. I think of poi as similar to juggling in that respect. So maybe poi might lose its novelty as it becomes more assimilated into society, but I don't think it's going to become a clothing style. Like all arts, it takes dedication and patience, which are two qualities that are always in short supply in society at large.
I'm just going to post my thoughts from the other "mainstream" thread here. (Don't hurt me, Pele! ;-) )
I guess the issue that comes up here that really bugs me is this concept that somehow "we" (whoever "we" are) somehow own spinning and that "they" (whoever "they" are) would somehow contaminate "our" art by becoming involved in it.
It also implies this stereotype that spinners need to be a certain type of person, some sort of dredlocked, hippie, crunchy raver who smokes a lot of pot. Yes, many of us fit that stereotype, but many of us don't. I'm 18 months away from becoming an M.D., and I'm one of two spinners in my class. Regyt is 18 months away from becoming a lawyer. We also have engineers, scientists (Vanize is a Ph.D. astrophysicist), executives, and military folks who spin.
Ultimately, I believe that the only thing that need hold us together is our love for our art.
I wonder what the original Maori poi spinners would think of what we've done to "their" art? I think that most of them would be appalled, thinking of what we do as a disgrace to their art, rather than honoring it. I would hope that we've transcended such a conservative viewpoint of who "should" and "shouldn't" be spinning.
There will always be people who pick up poi for a while, think they're good, but never advance. They also tend to get bored and put it down. The people who advance and get good are the ones who love the art and who enjoy practicing it. Whether we all like each-other or get along is not important.
Fact is that I got into this when it was a much smaller scene than it is. And yet I certainly didn't invent it. I've watched it grow over the years, I've watched wonderful new people come into our community, and I've met amazing people who I might never have met otherwise.
I'll also remind everyone that juggling (even juggling with fire) is mainstream. It's well-recognized, everyone in our society knows what it is, and many people do it. I think of poi as similar to juggling in that respect. So maybe poi might lose its novelty as it becomes more assimilated into society, but I don't think it's going to become a clothing style. Like all arts, it takes dedication and patience, which are two qualities that are always in short supply in society at large.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
The Britney Video is "Oops I did it again". Fire staff was happening in the back. If you want a more comprehensive list of appearances in pop media, check the home page of Hop and look under articles. There is a list somewhere in there.
Alrighty...Mike, sweetie...that is why I bumped it!
I am glad you are posting in here. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside!
"I wonder what the original Maori poi spinners would think of what we've done to "their" art? I think that most of them would be appalled, thinking of what we do as a disgrace to their art, rather than honoring it. "
I can answer this too. Many, many moons ago, when HoP was shiny and new there were several of us who received some not so nice letters in our email boxes from young Maori striving to preserve the tradition. There have been a couple who have posted here in the past with heavy hearts about the direction poi has gone in. There have been several stories of people out spinning comets (not fire) who were snubbed by Maori in a local park. My understanding is there are several of the tradition preservationist mode of thought who feel we should not even be using the term poi. I, myself, have run into people from New Zealand who have seen me perform and when I introduced the art as "Poi influenced" they were perplexed, but intrigued and it started a very nice conversation after the show.
Conversly, there have been Maori who have expressed that while they feel we do not do poi, they still like what we do.
"Like all arts, it takes dedication and patience, which are two qualities that are always in short supply in society at large. "
Wonderfully said! And the comparison can be made with music (how many bad garage bands are there in the world?), painting, skateboarding.. any creative endeavor. There are a million hobbyists. A few professionals. And it is always there to learn. No harm in that!
The Britney Video is "Oops I did it again". Fire staff was happening in the back. If you want a more comprehensive list of appearances in pop media, check the home page of Hop and look under articles. There is a list somewhere in there.
Alrighty...Mike, sweetie...that is why I bumped it!
I am glad you are posting in here. Makes me all warm and fuzzy inside! "I wonder what the original Maori poi spinners would think of what we've done to "their" art? I think that most of them would be appalled, thinking of what we do as a disgrace to their art, rather than honoring it. "
I can answer this too. Many, many moons ago, when HoP was shiny and new there were several of us who received some not so nice letters in our email boxes from young Maori striving to preserve the tradition. There have been a couple who have posted here in the past with heavy hearts about the direction poi has gone in. There have been several stories of people out spinning comets (not fire) who were snubbed by Maori in a local park. My understanding is there are several of the tradition preservationist mode of thought who feel we should not even be using the term poi. I, myself, have run into people from New Zealand who have seen me perform and when I introduced the art as "Poi influenced" they were perplexed, but intrigued and it started a very nice conversation after the show.
Conversly, there have been Maori who have expressed that while they feel we do not do poi, they still like what we do.
"Like all arts, it takes dedication and patience, which are two qualities that are always in short supply in society at large. "
Wonderfully said! And the comparison can be made with music (how many bad garage bands are there in the world?), painting, skateboarding.. any creative endeavor. There are a million hobbyists. A few professionals. And it is always there to learn. No harm in that!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
hmmm:
going to be doing a poi solo in a show in NZ north island in a couple of months.... so will wait with baited breath to see what response i get...
R
hmmm:
going to be doing a poi solo in a show in NZ north island in a couple of months.... so will wait with baited breath to see what response i get...
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
member
67 posts
Location: Nottingham, UK
member
67 posts
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posted:
*lol* Glad you think so! ;p
I was slightly worried I might get lynched after confessing I consider myself one of the "mainstream" lot, considering the way the vote turned out!
hugs,
m
hugs,
m
Quote:
My reply toQuote:...
one of those people who are only doing fire stuff to be "cool"
...
...
...
you're cool...
*lol* Glad you think so! ;p
I was slightly worried I might get lynched after confessing I consider myself one of the "mainstream" lot, considering the way the vote turned out!
hugs,
m
hugs,
m
"Come to the edge", he said. They said "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge", he said. They came.
He pushed them..... and they flew.
- Apollinaire
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I guess I just don't know what "mainstream" is. I consider myself somewhat off-mainstream, but when I went to my co-op for the first time, they all thought I was some frat boy from down the road just from looking at me. I keep my hair cropped military short, I wear nondescript clothes, I have no facial hair, I have no piercings, I walk with a purpose and carry myself like someone who knows what the heck he's doing.
But yet I listen to trance, I love to club and rave, I spin fire, I'm a vegetarian, I have political views that are not in line with most of those views held by Americans, etc.
So what am I?
I'm someone who loves to spin poi (and doesn't get to do it nearly enough).
I guess I just don't know what "mainstream" is. I consider myself somewhat off-mainstream, but when I went to my co-op for the first time, they all thought I was some frat boy from down the road just from looking at me. I keep my hair cropped military short, I wear nondescript clothes, I have no facial hair, I have no piercings, I walk with a purpose and carry myself like someone who knows what the heck he's doing.
But yet I listen to trance, I love to club and rave, I spin fire, I'm a vegetarian, I have political views that are not in line with most of those views held by Americans, etc.
So what am I?
I'm someone who loves to spin poi (and doesn't get to do it nearly enough).
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
member
521 posts
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Posted:
Lightning... really pleased you posted what you did - it's great to hear your views..
I also find it amazing that people want exclusivity to something that they have learnt/seen others doing in the first place... remember the first time you saw spinning/fire/whatever - whatever that emotion was that you felt that made you want to try it too... why would it be more noble or valid than the reason that any other person might want to try at any point in time...
no matter how special we all think we are - we are all part of "the Mainstream" - sorry, but you're not that different - we're all just people and no matter what your social sub-cultural predudices are, you don't "own" spinning or poi (with the exception of course of Maori decendants who could justifiably feel it is their heritage)...
for the 7 years I have been twirling, I have watched literally hundreds and hundreds of people discover its magic - all sorts of people - and as a few people have already said, it's so common in many areas that you would say it already is "mainstream" - if you are talking about some critical number of people to make it so..
and re. the affect on existing fire performers - sure there will be lots more people deciding to try their luck at a career, but there is *so* much more to becoming a successful performer than having twirling skills - but I guess that's another story...
and having watched its growth to this point, I would say that the more people who get involved the better the technique, the more safety awareness, the less fear about it, the more accessable the resources etc... why deny others the possibility of enjoying something you do?
Lightning... really pleased you posted what you did - it's great to hear your views..
I also find it amazing that people want exclusivity to something that they have learnt/seen others doing in the first place... remember the first time you saw spinning/fire/whatever - whatever that emotion was that you felt that made you want to try it too... why would it be more noble or valid than the reason that any other person might want to try at any point in time...
no matter how special we all think we are - we are all part of "the Mainstream" - sorry, but you're not that different - we're all just people and no matter what your social sub-cultural predudices are, you don't "own" spinning or poi (with the exception of course of Maori decendants who could justifiably feel it is their heritage)...
for the 7 years I have been twirling, I have watched literally hundreds and hundreds of people discover its magic - all sorts of people - and as a few people have already said, it's so common in many areas that you would say it already is "mainstream" - if you are talking about some critical number of people to make it so..
and re. the affect on existing fire performers - sure there will be lots more people deciding to try their luck at a career, but there is *so* much more to becoming a successful performer than having twirling skills - but I guess that's another story...
and having watched its growth to this point, I would say that the more people who get involved the better the technique, the more safety awareness, the less fear about it, the more accessable the resources etc... why deny others the possibility of enjoying something you do?
member
54 posts
Location: vodka-country... and it's VERY COLD here
54 posts
Location: vodka-country... and it's VERY COLD here
Posted:
YOU ARE MAINSTREAM!!!
Why most of you consider "mainstream" to be something horrible, disgusting, extremely disgusting, and in every possible way unworthy for a respectable young man of the beginning of 21-st century?????
Quote:
But yet I listen to trance, I love to club and rave, I spin fire, I'm a vegetarian, I have political views that are not in line with most of those views held by Americans, etc.
So what am I?
YOU ARE MAINSTREAM!!!
Why most of you consider "mainstream" to be something horrible, disgusting, extremely disgusting, and in every possible way unworthy for a respectable young man of the beginning of 21-st century?????
when it gets colder that -25, you don't really care
Sponge
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
Posted:
As the good "old" post-modernists would say we are all mainstream as we're living in a consuming culture where we discover new things and it's the thing to be individual so we strive to find that which others have not yet
This is only a comms perspective.... not my own!
As the good "old" post-modernists would say we are all mainstream as we're living in a consuming culture where we discover new things and it's the thing to be individual so we strive to find that which others have not yet
This is only a comms perspective.... not my own!
Monkeys monkeys and bananas
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
amen, i cant stand that attitude what it really translates to is "twirling makes me feel special if others learn it i wont be special anymore and i dont want to learn anything new so i will do my best to stop the growth of twirling and keep it as my special thing"
Quote:
we're all just people and no matter what your social sub-cultural predudices are, you don't "own" spinning or poi
amen, i cant stand that attitude what it really translates to is "twirling makes me feel special if others learn it i wont be special anymore and i dont want to learn anything new so i will do my best to stop the growth of twirling and keep it as my special thing"
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
GOLD Member
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
addict
674 posts
Location: Ohio, USA
Posted:
I started spinning poi after looking up the fire arts on google and finding this site. I had heard about it at a festival but hadnt seen it, so I wanted to see what I missed. I began spinning and have been ever since, and I'd have to say that it is the mere act of spinning it that interests me, and if people want to watch, that's cool too. I can't really dance, but give me poi or a staff and I can wow most people. I'm not worried about suddenly being considered less special. I've taught many people and gotten several kids interested in spinning from some of our shows. As a result I've gotten to spin with people of many different skill levels, some who were spinning for their first time. Crowds know the difference between a seasoned fire artist and some kid who does it just for fun and can go real real fast.
For instance, I dance a lot more with my fire performances, and the kinds of fluid movements I developed aren't really copied by many people who havn't been doing it long. I usually sit in the audeince between runs, and I overhear people specifically single out "That guy who rolls the staff over his body and the other guy with the fluid spinning" from a good number of other spinners. It's such a good feeling to be recognized, but at the same time, I find myself wowed many times. I guess for me being into it as an art form makes me more able to appreciate real skill. The crowd may not notice that 7-beat weave compared to a 5-beat weave, but those who do will be picking their jaws up off the ground if they recognize it.
For those with true devotion or respect or whatever you want to call it, skill will always be recognized. Even the crowd recognizes new tricks. After seeing the same ones over and over they eventually begin seeing the more advanced aspects of your routine. If someone surpasses you, recognize it as a challenge to push yourself more, not punish the quick learner. Seeing someone else who's attitude you don't agree with pull off a move you havn't done before is a good motivator to figure out moves. After all, there's gonna be people with that attitude in no matter what you do, so I see it as a way to get to learn to live with others.
I started spinning poi after looking up the fire arts on google and finding this site. I had heard about it at a festival but hadnt seen it, so I wanted to see what I missed. I began spinning and have been ever since, and I'd have to say that it is the mere act of spinning it that interests me, and if people want to watch, that's cool too. I can't really dance, but give me poi or a staff and I can wow most people. I'm not worried about suddenly being considered less special. I've taught many people and gotten several kids interested in spinning from some of our shows. As a result I've gotten to spin with people of many different skill levels, some who were spinning for their first time. Crowds know the difference between a seasoned fire artist and some kid who does it just for fun and can go real real fast.
For instance, I dance a lot more with my fire performances, and the kinds of fluid movements I developed aren't really copied by many people who havn't been doing it long. I usually sit in the audeince between runs, and I overhear people specifically single out "That guy who rolls the staff over his body and the other guy with the fluid spinning" from a good number of other spinners. It's such a good feeling to be recognized, but at the same time, I find myself wowed many times. I guess for me being into it as an art form makes me more able to appreciate real skill. The crowd may not notice that 7-beat weave compared to a 5-beat weave, but those who do will be picking their jaws up off the ground if they recognize it.
For those with true devotion or respect or whatever you want to call it, skill will always be recognized. Even the crowd recognizes new tricks. After seeing the same ones over and over they eventually begin seeing the more advanced aspects of your routine. If someone surpasses you, recognize it as a challenge to push yourself more, not punish the quick learner. Seeing someone else who's attitude you don't agree with pull off a move you havn't done before is a good motivator to figure out moves. After all, there's gonna be people with that attitude in no matter what you do, so I see it as a way to get to learn to live with others.
Sponge
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
883 posts
Location: Stevenage
Posted:
Kind of related.... but not:
they juggle fire in Hook aswell, and that was filmed in 1992/3?? Hehe, I watched it yesterday and had a good old sleepy day in.
Then again, I saw fire jugglers and eaters waaaaay before I saw poi or staff and devil sticks somewhere in between them.... everyone's different right?!?
Kind of related.... but not:
they juggle fire in Hook aswell, and that was filmed in 1992/3?? Hehe, I watched it yesterday and had a good old sleepy day in.
Then again, I saw fire jugglers and eaters waaaaay before I saw poi or staff and devil sticks somewhere in between them.... everyone's different right?!?
Monkeys monkeys and bananas
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Ug... this topic comes up about every few months.
Here's my initial post on the subject back in 2001.
The Poi Fad.
Then again it came up in 2002 titled "Mainstream". Similar title to this one, note Mr. Lightning had the exact same response a year ago... and, so did I.
[Old link]
There have been even more posts in between...
Only three more weeks and we'll get the 2004 edition I guess.
Sparkly poi, colored flames and ... oh yeah ... what music do you spin to?
Ug... this topic comes up about every few months.
Here's my initial post on the subject back in 2001.
The Poi Fad.
Then again it came up in 2002 titled "Mainstream". Similar title to this one, note Mr. Lightning had the exact same response a year ago... and, so did I.
[Old link]
There have been even more posts in between...
Only three more weeks and we'll get the 2004 edition I guess.
Sparkly poi, colored flames and ... oh yeah ... what music do you spin to?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
such a cynic NYC.
for once i disagree that this would be better served by reading old posts. as its directly related to the new people on the board it is good that it is continually rediscussed.
you can ignore it after all
R
such a cynic NYC.
for once i disagree that this would be better served by reading old posts. as its directly related to the new people on the board it is good that it is continually rediscussed.
you can ignore it after all
R Holistic Spinner (I hope)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Indeed.. I do enjoy reading the new folks ideas. Opinion posts certainly benefit from reposting. I was just linking to my original post.
Also, I'm suggesting that 'fire spinning' isn't constantly 'becoming mainstream' but just seems so during certain overexposures. I haven't seen any more firespinning as a whole in the last two years. Every time I see a new fire venue/event/ad... I remember about one that isn't happening anymore. New cities are overrun as old cities go into permanent hibernation.
Right now it seems more cyclical... and if you're in one of the many positions where it's more popular than it was yesterday, then it certainly seems like it's taking over.
Indeed.. I do enjoy reading the new folks ideas. Opinion posts certainly benefit from reposting. I was just linking to my original post.
Also, I'm suggesting that 'fire spinning' isn't constantly 'becoming mainstream' but just seems so during certain overexposures. I haven't seen any more firespinning as a whole in the last two years. Every time I see a new fire venue/event/ad... I remember about one that isn't happening anymore. New cities are overrun as old cities go into permanent hibernation.
Right now it seems more cyclical... and if you're in one of the many positions where it's more popular than it was yesterday, then it certainly seems like it's taking over.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Similar Topics
Using the keywords [mainstream fire art] we found the following existing topics.
- Forums > Mainstream Fire Art [48 replies]
Show more..
© 1998 - 2025 Home of Poi
All prices converted to United States dollars using XE.com