Forums > Social Chat > Slapping your Kids?
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175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
Posted:
Well Ill tell you a little story and I want to hear what you think of this.
Myself and Ann (my fiance) decided we would take a little day trip to Portrush on the train on Sunday. We had a great day until we arrived back at the train station to go home. There was a mother and her 4-5 year old son on the platform. The kid was a little terror running around and kicking everything and stuff. He jumped down onto the train track and was running around on that too and his mother was just watching him.
The "Big Fat Controller" came over and demanded that the mother control her child as he will be injured if he does not get off the track. She started screaming at the child "John, get the F*CK off that train track." The kid just looked at her and ran off up the track. By this stage the barriers started to come down on the road beside the train station which meant that the train was coming. The Big fat controller then jumped down onto the tracks and ran over and grabbed the kid and lifted him up onto the platform and he climbed back up too. Within 30 seconds the train came speeding into the station.
Well the woman didnt say sorry or thanks or anything to the guy who saved her childs life. She just pulled out a cigarette and started to smoke.
The kid continued to run around until he tripped on the stairs and fell down 2 stairs and bumped his head. He started to cry, well scream! Now the mother shouted at him to shut up and stop crying. He did not cut himself put it was a bad bump on the head so the mother runs over to him raises her hand and shouts "I'LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT!" and slaps him really hard in the face.
Obviously the kid screams even louder and the mother starts repeatidly (typo?) slapping his backside and screaming "STOP F*CKING CRYING"
I thought this was awful and I had a full scale discussion with Ann on the train on the way home.
I do believe in slapping your kids - but only in extreme circumstances. I wouldnt slap them unless they really deserve it - like playing with fire (ok bad example LOL)
How can you possibly make a child stop crying by slapping them?
And would you slap your kids? If so - how far would u let them go before you lifted your hand?
Well Ill tell you a little story and I want to hear what you think of this.
Myself and Ann (my fiance) decided we would take a little day trip to Portrush on the train on Sunday. We had a great day until we arrived back at the train station to go home. There was a mother and her 4-5 year old son on the platform. The kid was a little terror running around and kicking everything and stuff. He jumped down onto the train track and was running around on that too and his mother was just watching him.
The "Big Fat Controller" came over and demanded that the mother control her child as he will be injured if he does not get off the track. She started screaming at the child "John, get the F*CK off that train track." The kid just looked at her and ran off up the track. By this stage the barriers started to come down on the road beside the train station which meant that the train was coming. The Big fat controller then jumped down onto the tracks and ran over and grabbed the kid and lifted him up onto the platform and he climbed back up too. Within 30 seconds the train came speeding into the station.
Well the woman didnt say sorry or thanks or anything to the guy who saved her childs life. She just pulled out a cigarette and started to smoke.
The kid continued to run around until he tripped on the stairs and fell down 2 stairs and bumped his head. He started to cry, well scream! Now the mother shouted at him to shut up and stop crying. He did not cut himself put it was a bad bump on the head so the mother runs over to him raises her hand and shouts "I'LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT!" and slaps him really hard in the face.
Obviously the kid screams even louder and the mother starts repeatidly (typo?) slapping his backside and screaming "STOP F*CKING CRYING"
I thought this was awful and I had a full scale discussion with Ann on the train on the way home.
I do believe in slapping your kids - but only in extreme circumstances. I wouldnt slap them unless they really deserve it - like playing with fire (ok bad example LOL)
How can you possibly make a child stop crying by slapping them?
And would you slap your kids? If so - how far would u let them go before you lifted your hand?
Be Good, and if you DONT be Good, Buy a Pram!
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
Ok I need clarification first:
Are you using "slap" as the action of using ones hand and slapping the child across the face?
Or
Is "slap" being used in terms of a spanking? Spanking is on the butt.
I personally would have spanked my kid if they were that out of control. I would have stopped his out of controlness right then. I don't mean "spanking" as in beating the child to death either.
But what really needs to be done is for people to teach their children to behave at an early age and when they are told "no" or "stop" they should mind. If they don't mind then give a warning. If that still doesn't make them quit what they are doing, then spank them.
I was brought up by being spanked. I turned out alright. I'm not scarred for life or anything. That is just something I would do.
I don't really think slapping a kid is very effective. Especially after what that kid got away with before his mother raised her hand.
I think how she handled the situation was wrong. If she didn't want the kid to start crying then she should of stopped his running all over the place. His running around is what caused him to trip and fall down some steps and hurt his head. That is just my oppinion though.
Some people should not have children.MHO
I don't plan on having kids and don't like to be around them either, so I have no worries with this issue
[ 01. October 2003, 04:10: Message edited by: Mistress Aurora ]
Ok I need clarification first:
Are you using "slap" as the action of using ones hand and slapping the child across the face?
Or
Is "slap" being used in terms of a spanking? Spanking is on the butt.
I personally would have spanked my kid if they were that out of control. I would have stopped his out of controlness right then. I don't mean "spanking" as in beating the child to death either.
But what really needs to be done is for people to teach their children to behave at an early age and when they are told "no" or "stop" they should mind. If they don't mind then give a warning. If that still doesn't make them quit what they are doing, then spank them.
I was brought up by being spanked. I turned out alright. I'm not scarred for life or anything. That is just something I would do.
I don't really think slapping a kid is very effective. Especially after what that kid got away with before his mother raised her hand.
I think how she handled the situation was wrong. If she didn't want the kid to start crying then she should of stopped his running all over the place. His running around is what caused him to trip and fall down some steps and hurt his head. That is just my oppinion though.
Some people should not have children.MHO
I don't plan on having kids and don't like to be around them either, so I have no worries with this issue
[ 01. October 2003, 04:10: Message edited by: Mistress Aurora ]
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
veteran
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey
Posted:
That story makes me really angry. Stupid woman! I agree that a controlled slap can be necessary in extreme circumstances, but that woman should not be allowed children. I'm going to come back and make a proper post when I'm less annoyed.
That story makes me really angry. Stupid woman! I agree that a controlled slap can be necessary in extreme circumstances, but that woman should not be allowed children. I'm going to come back and make a proper post when I'm less annoyed.
The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.
Always make time to play in the snow.
Climbing up my leg
141 posts
Location: England
141 posts
Location: England
Posted:
I don't beleive in slapping kids because I think generally, that kids are small adults. I'm aware they might not understand everything in the way we do but you can still reason with them.
I used to work in a nursery and we were never allowed to raise our voices to the children, if one of them did something nasty we had to tell them how they'd made us feel and what the result of their actions were. It sounds really cheesy, I know, but it did work. If you told them in an adult way that they'd really upset us and made one of the other children sad, the majority of them felt bad about it and some even started crying.
How can you explain to your child it's unacceptable to hit the other children at school if every time you get angry because they're doing something you don't want them to do (regardless if it's for their own safety) you smack them. It doesn't make sense.
I don't beleive in slapping kids because I think generally, that kids are small adults. I'm aware they might not understand everything in the way we do but you can still reason with them.
I used to work in a nursery and we were never allowed to raise our voices to the children, if one of them did something nasty we had to tell them how they'd made us feel and what the result of their actions were. It sounds really cheesy, I know, but it did work. If you told them in an adult way that they'd really upset us and made one of the other children sad, the majority of them felt bad about it and some even started crying.
How can you explain to your child it's unacceptable to hit the other children at school if every time you get angry because they're doing something you don't want them to do (regardless if it's for their own safety) you smack them. It doesn't make sense.
Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
Posted:
I totally agree with smaking children as a form of disapline.
I was lucky to be disaplined by my dad.. I only got his hand - my sister had hairbrushes, belts and wooden spoons from my mum..
I don't think it did me any harm as a kid - I certianly never ran away from home again.. ( I was 7 at the time) but the thing was - disapline in my house hold has a ceremony.. it was all part of the way my parents told me off.. there would be tears and talking to's but if what I had done was really bad - then I knew it would be a ceramonial spanking.. it was the thought of the whole drama the made it worse - I knew it was coming ad would worry about it till it did.. you knew that my but would be so rosy that I wouldn't be able to sit down for a few hours.. just long enough to have a good 'think' about what I'd done.. and no I never set fire to the servents 1/4's again either ( I grew up in Thailand - for those of you who think that was posh)
What I don't agree with is when a smack is handed out for little every day things.. yeah ok if the kid is having a hissy fit and talking isn't working - then a short sharp slap may shock the kid into being quiet.. but kids get immune to spankings every day - what that woman did was a total misguided sence of disapline.. man I would have been too scared to play on the tracks.. he should have got a slap for not listening to a) his mother in the first place and b) the fat controller is a person in autherity who's job it is to keep people safe on his patch..
If that had been my kid ( I don't have any yet) he would have been to busy crying from a warning 'wait till we get home or untill your father hears about this' to be running around to fall over to hurt himself..
bad parent in my opinion..
you need a license to drive - but anyone can breed
I totally agree with smaking children as a form of disapline.
I was lucky to be disaplined by my dad.. I only got his hand - my sister had hairbrushes, belts and wooden spoons from my mum..
I don't think it did me any harm as a kid - I certianly never ran away from home again.. ( I was 7 at the time) but the thing was - disapline in my house hold has a ceremony.. it was all part of the way my parents told me off.. there would be tears and talking to's but if what I had done was really bad - then I knew it would be a ceramonial spanking.. it was the thought of the whole drama the made it worse - I knew it was coming ad would worry about it till it did.. you knew that my but would be so rosy that I wouldn't be able to sit down for a few hours.. just long enough to have a good 'think' about what I'd done.. and no I never set fire to the servents 1/4's again either ( I grew up in Thailand - for those of you who think that was posh)
What I don't agree with is when a smack is handed out for little every day things.. yeah ok if the kid is having a hissy fit and talking isn't working - then a short sharp slap may shock the kid into being quiet.. but kids get immune to spankings every day - what that woman did was a total misguided sence of disapline.. man I would have been too scared to play on the tracks.. he should have got a slap for not listening to a) his mother in the first place and b) the fat controller is a person in autherity who's job it is to keep people safe on his patch..
If that had been my kid ( I don't have any yet) he would have been to busy crying from a warning 'wait till we get home or untill your father hears about this' to be running around to fall over to hurt himself..
bad parent in my opinion..
you need a license to drive - but anyone can breed
I honour you as an aspect of myself..
You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..
member
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
Posted:
OK let me just make this clear
This woman was literally beating the child REALLY HARD!
I would Spank my kids on the butt (when i have them) But nowhere else!
OK let me just make this clear
This woman was literally beating the child REALLY HARD!
I would Spank my kids on the butt (when i have them) But nowhere else!
Be Good, and if you DONT be Good, Buy a Pram!
Hot Schtuff
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
1,032 posts
Location: Stillwater,OK/Wichita Falls,TX
Posted:
Ok just wanted the clarification
Thanks
Ok just wanted the clarification
Thanks
RISK: Do not follow the common path; Go where there is no path and leave a trail.
Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
Posted:
thats not disapline - thats just abuse..
thats not disapline - thats just abuse..
I honour you as an aspect of myself..
You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..
member
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
Posted:
I felt the exact same when I seen it all happenening!
I admit that my mum did disapline me by spanking. I didnt have to get spanked very much as I learn a lesson very quickly when there is pain involved.
My mum normally used her hand when she spanked me, but when i was REALLY bad she produced the wooden spoon! Now that is something that really scares me. I refuse to have a wooden spoon in my own house because it gives me the "Heebie Geebies" every time I see one.
My mum only slapped me once with the wooden spoon, and from that day on, she just had to produce the wooden spoon out of the kitchen to teach me a lesson. I seen it and ran to my room and hide under the bed! - she didnt have to ever use it again!
[ 01. October 2003, 04:55: Message edited by: BigDav ]
I felt the exact same when I seen it all happenening!
I admit that my mum did disapline me by spanking. I didnt have to get spanked very much as I learn a lesson very quickly when there is pain involved.
My mum normally used her hand when she spanked me, but when i was REALLY bad she produced the wooden spoon! Now that is something that really scares me. I refuse to have a wooden spoon in my own house because it gives me the "Heebie Geebies" every time I see one.
My mum only slapped me once with the wooden spoon, and from that day on, she just had to produce the wooden spoon out of the kitchen to teach me a lesson. I seen it and ran to my room and hide under the bed! - she didnt have to ever use it again!
[ 01. October 2003, 04:55: Message edited by: BigDav ]
Be Good, and if you DONT be Good, Buy a Pram!
member
192 posts
Location: oxford
192 posts
Location: oxford
Posted:
mum always said she'd never hit us because quite simply because she didn't think that teaching me and my sister that she could hit us, but we couldnn't hit others was a good idea....
mum always said she'd never hit us because quite simply because she didn't think that teaching me and my sister that she could hit us, but we couldnn't hit others was a good idea....
veteran
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey
1,359 posts
Location: London/ Surrey
Posted:
I agree with Mistress Aurora and BigDav.
All that that child would learn from this is that it's ok to run around out of control doing what he likes, in a dangerous place, disregarding an authority figure, but he will receive a beating for crying if he hurts himself. WTF?
A child scribbling on the walls can have the crayon taken away and made to understand that that is wrong to do and makes mum/dad/teacher/whoever sad because the wall is spoiled.
A child that is running around on the tracks and will not stop needs to be made to stop and understand that it is dangerous, and most children won't think of something as dangerous until it hurts them. On a train track this is too late. A smack (NOT a beating, a smack, on the leg/bottom, in a controlled manner that will sting but not injure) will make that child stop what he was doing to avoid getting another one, and associate that behaviour with pain, rather than knowing that there will be no punishment but an adult might make them stop so running away from said adult prolongs the fun.
As they get older, children are more reasonable and other punishments/ ways of making them understand work much better and smacking is unnecessary, but although they are very nearly miniature adults, you cannot always reason with a young child.
I don't think a smack should ever be used to vent a parent's anger on a child, or as a punishment in cold blood for something done weeks ago. I agree that smacking is inappropriate in schools, where there is too much potential for abuse (Although stronger punishments are necessary, schools have almost no authority over children now, but that's a whole other kettle of fish)
Just my opinion though
I agree with Mistress Aurora and BigDav.
All that that child would learn from this is that it's ok to run around out of control doing what he likes, in a dangerous place, disregarding an authority figure, but he will receive a beating for crying if he hurts himself. WTF?
A child scribbling on the walls can have the crayon taken away and made to understand that that is wrong to do and makes mum/dad/teacher/whoever sad because the wall is spoiled.
A child that is running around on the tracks and will not stop needs to be made to stop and understand that it is dangerous, and most children won't think of something as dangerous until it hurts them. On a train track this is too late. A smack (NOT a beating, a smack, on the leg/bottom, in a controlled manner that will sting but not injure) will make that child stop what he was doing to avoid getting another one, and associate that behaviour with pain, rather than knowing that there will be no punishment but an adult might make them stop so running away from said adult prolongs the fun.
As they get older, children are more reasonable and other punishments/ ways of making them understand work much better and smacking is unnecessary, but although they are very nearly miniature adults, you cannot always reason with a young child.
I don't think a smack should ever be used to vent a parent's anger on a child, or as a punishment in cold blood for something done weeks ago. I agree that smacking is inappropriate in schools, where there is too much potential for abuse (Although stronger punishments are necessary, schools have almost no authority over children now, but that's a whole other kettle of fish)
Just my opinion though
The optimist claims that we are living in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true.
Always make time to play in the snow.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
My humble opinion which I only judge myself on:
I, personally, would never strike a child. Not a spank, not a slap, not a finger. I wouldn't even threaten it. Not mine, not yours, never. I personally believe it's a band-ade solution to a larger problem. In a violent world I am adamantly against violence, especially against children, especially by their parents. There is absoutely no reason to strike a child, ever.
I know that some of you were slapped, spanked, and some apparently violently beaten by your parents and turned out OK. But I'd hope that wouldn't justify violence in the future.
None of my parent's 4 kids (including myself) were ever hit or threatened with violence of any kind. It's certainly possible to raise decent humans without striking them as babies when they do the wrong thing.
Keep in mind that whether you grab a child, hold it down, and strike it's bum or just smack it across the face while it's standing, it's still pretty violent, especially to the child. Most of the tears after a spanking is due to the trauma and fear (hopefully it's not due to the pain) which is horrible within it's own right.
Certainly it's necessary to grab a child or physically restrain a child from hurting one's self (or being hit by a train!) It's certainly necessary to act angry, disappointed, or scared and to express that to the child. I ABSOLUTELY believe that children need much more structure and discipline than many of them get. But I see no reason to use pain and violence as a deterrent.
I'm surprised that in such a peace loving community as this, the only place we are advocating violence is against children.
{Yeah, I know it came across as judgemental and I didn't mean it to be. Everyone obviously has the right to raise their child as they wish and I do see a difference between a spank and handcuffing a baby to a radiator and beating them bloody.}
My humble opinion which I only judge myself on:
I, personally, would never strike a child. Not a spank, not a slap, not a finger. I wouldn't even threaten it. Not mine, not yours, never. I personally believe it's a band-ade solution to a larger problem. In a violent world I am adamantly against violence, especially against children, especially by their parents. There is absoutely no reason to strike a child, ever.
I know that some of you were slapped, spanked, and some apparently violently beaten by your parents and turned out OK. But I'd hope that wouldn't justify violence in the future.
None of my parent's 4 kids (including myself) were ever hit or threatened with violence of any kind. It's certainly possible to raise decent humans without striking them as babies when they do the wrong thing.
Keep in mind that whether you grab a child, hold it down, and strike it's bum or just smack it across the face while it's standing, it's still pretty violent, especially to the child. Most of the tears after a spanking is due to the trauma and fear (hopefully it's not due to the pain) which is horrible within it's own right.
Certainly it's necessary to grab a child or physically restrain a child from hurting one's self (or being hit by a train!) It's certainly necessary to act angry, disappointed, or scared and to express that to the child. I ABSOLUTELY believe that children need much more structure and discipline than many of them get. But I see no reason to use pain and violence as a deterrent.
I'm surprised that in such a peace loving community as this, the only place we are advocating violence is against children.
{Yeah, I know it came across as judgemental and I didn't mean it to be. Everyone obviously has the right to raise their child as they wish and I do see a difference between a spank and handcuffing a baby to a radiator and beating them bloody.}
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
(*) (*) .. for the gnor ;)
2,568 posts
Location: sitting on the step
2,568 posts
Location: sitting on the step
Posted:
my god what an awful woman!!!i really feel for that child cos because of her..that child is gonna grow up a f*$# up!unless some higher power steps in...
as for the slapping question..yes i would smack my child. in my experience and this is just my experience, i have never met a well behaved child who has not been smack as a punishment, my youngest sister being one of them. my middle sis and i were smacked if we had done something wrong, and we learnt the rules fast. we were both smacked with a wooden spoon and a flip flop (not beaten) on the back of the leg, i remember it stung more than the butt, but i digress, my yongest sis is 10yrs younger than me and ahs been smacked 2 times in her whole life, she is mouthy, selfish and spoilt,dont get me wrong i love her shes my baby sis, but shes a handfull!and i truely believe that if she had been punished for her actions instead of babied shed be better behaved. i can still hear my mid sis and i saying " my god if we'd even dared do that we'd have had hiding." and my mum repling "yes but shes more sensitive & i dont want to upset her" (okay i just re-read and have made my parent sound crap, theyre not theyre the coolest parent i could have asked for)i cant remember where i was going with this so im gonna stop babbling
so to so to summerise, smacking -yes
X
my god what an awful woman!!!i really feel for that child cos because of her..that child is gonna grow up a f*$# up!unless some higher power steps in...
as for the slapping question..yes i would smack my child. in my experience and this is just my experience, i have never met a well behaved child who has not been smack as a punishment, my youngest sister being one of them. my middle sis and i were smacked if we had done something wrong, and we learnt the rules fast. we were both smacked with a wooden spoon and a flip flop (not beaten) on the back of the leg, i remember it stung more than the butt, but i digress, my yongest sis is 10yrs younger than me and ahs been smacked 2 times in her whole life, she is mouthy, selfish and spoilt,dont get me wrong i love her shes my baby sis, but shes a handfull!and i truely believe that if she had been punished for her actions instead of babied shed be better behaved. i can still hear my mid sis and i saying " my god if we'd even dared do that we'd have had hiding." and my mum repling "yes but shes more sensitive & i dont want to upset her" (okay i just re-read and have made my parent sound crap, theyre not theyre the coolest parent i could have asked for)i cant remember where i was going with this so im gonna stop babbling
so to so to summerise, smacking -yes
X
she who sees from up high smiles
Patrick badger king: *they better hope there's never a jihad on stupidity*
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Yes I have spanked him. Yes I have slapped him (on the hand). I have even whacked him with a paper (not rolled up doggie style, but to get his attention).
I grew up spanked, and then some. I turned out fine. There is a really fine line between what I view as disturbing violence and getting a point across. Noah once broke away from my friend as we were getting out of the car and ran straight for the road in front of a semi. It did not phase him one bit. But when I smacked his (diapered) butt, he cried. His little heart was broken that I did that, but he KNEW I was upset and he **never** did it again. If I had have yelled at him, it would have been forgotten a few weeks later. If I had have held him and coddled him (as is the first instinct) it is positive reinforcement and he would've done it again.
The human element is an interesting one which learns by both positive and negative reinforcement, finding the lines with both of these is the hardest part.
Which is too far for the positive? A piece of candy for a good deed? A new toy? Money? By many parenting groups this is bribary, and so not condoned because the child is not feeling the gratification for accomplishment of something, but because they earned something aside from the good grade, the eaten meal, etc.
Then there is the negative which now states that not only is spanking wrong but so it time out because it harbours feelings of neglect. So then what are you left to do? Lecture? Ground and take away priveledges? Those only go so far on certain ages.
Moderation of them both is key and those stupid parenting groups are so high up on thier horses they don't even pay attention to the children they are trodding on.
And for those who say "Well I would never...". Don't. It is way too easy to say such things when you have no children of your own. I always said that too, and had the most honorable intentions when it came to raising my child. YOUR OWN CHILD can press buttons in you that you never knew exsisted, and patience does eventually wear thin. Truth of the matter is you do not know what you would do unless you are in that situation. All you have is hope and an ideal.
I punish my son for his own good, not mine. And when parents say "This hurts me more than it hurts you" it really does. I am not his friend. I am his mother, and to act otherwise is doing no service to him. Later in life I hope we will be friends, but until then we share good times and bad, and he is very much a mama's boy but he is a boy and needs help learning right from wrong to become a good man, and that is what I am here for.
And as for that woman, she should not have had a child, ever. It is a sad thing. That child is a product of his environment and to have someone who is so blatantly filled with apathy care for another life is sad to say the least. If we can spay and neuter animals, I very firmly believe we need to do so for people as well!
Yes I have spanked him. Yes I have slapped him (on the hand). I have even whacked him with a paper (not rolled up doggie style, but to get his attention).
I grew up spanked, and then some. I turned out fine. There is a really fine line between what I view as disturbing violence and getting a point across. Noah once broke away from my friend as we were getting out of the car and ran straight for the road in front of a semi. It did not phase him one bit. But when I smacked his (diapered) butt, he cried. His little heart was broken that I did that, but he KNEW I was upset and he **never** did it again. If I had have yelled at him, it would have been forgotten a few weeks later. If I had have held him and coddled him (as is the first instinct) it is positive reinforcement and he would've done it again.
The human element is an interesting one which learns by both positive and negative reinforcement, finding the lines with both of these is the hardest part.
Which is too far for the positive? A piece of candy for a good deed? A new toy? Money? By many parenting groups this is bribary, and so not condoned because the child is not feeling the gratification for accomplishment of something, but because they earned something aside from the good grade, the eaten meal, etc.
Then there is the negative which now states that not only is spanking wrong but so it time out because it harbours feelings of neglect. So then what are you left to do? Lecture? Ground and take away priveledges? Those only go so far on certain ages.
Moderation of them both is key and those stupid parenting groups are so high up on thier horses they don't even pay attention to the children they are trodding on.
And for those who say "Well I would never...". Don't. It is way too easy to say such things when you have no children of your own. I always said that too, and had the most honorable intentions when it came to raising my child. YOUR OWN CHILD can press buttons in you that you never knew exsisted, and patience does eventually wear thin. Truth of the matter is you do not know what you would do unless you are in that situation. All you have is hope and an ideal.
I punish my son for his own good, not mine. And when parents say "This hurts me more than it hurts you" it really does. I am not his friend. I am his mother, and to act otherwise is doing no service to him. Later in life I hope we will be friends, but until then we share good times and bad, and he is very much a mama's boy but he is a boy and needs help learning right from wrong to become a good man, and that is what I am here for.
And as for that woman, she should not have had a child, ever. It is a sad thing. That child is a product of his environment and to have someone who is so blatantly filled with apathy care for another life is sad to say the least. If we can spay and neuter animals, I very firmly believe we need to do so for people as well!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
What this woman did was definitely not about disciplining her child. It is clear, not just from the level of force, but from the timing of when she actually decided to take action, that she was doing it solely to relieve her own feelings of embarassment. That poor child has just learned the important lessons that a) it is ok to run on railway tracks (didn't get smacked or controlled) b) it is ok not to thank people who help us (example of mother not thanking "controller") c) that it is not okay to cry (spanked in public). Great!!!
I would spank my child, but I would want to be aware of the timing, and what lesson it was teaching them. And I am fully aware there are downsides to any punishment. For example this:
What this woman did was definitely not about disciplining her child. It is clear, not just from the level of force, but from the timing of when she actually decided to take action, that she was doing it solely to relieve her own feelings of embarassment. That poor child has just learned the important lessons that a) it is ok to run on railway tracks (didn't get smacked or controlled) b) it is ok not to thank people who help us (example of mother not thanking "controller") c) that it is not okay to cry (spanked in public). Great!!!
I would spank my child, but I would want to be aware of the timing, and what lesson it was teaching them. And I am fully aware there are downsides to any punishment. For example this:
quote:It does sound like a very healthy way of dealing with some problems and some children. However it also seems like a classic case of using guilt to control. A lot of people grow up with major problems, because guilt was the main controlling factor in their upbringing ("how could you do this?"). They are unable to make decisions solely for their own reasons, as they worry they will hurt someone. The problem is, their idea of what they are responsible for is blown all out of proportion.
I used to work in a nursery and we were never allowed to raise our voices to the children, if one of them did something nasty we had to tell them how they'd made us feel and what the result of their actions were. It sounds really cheesy, I know, but it did work. If you told them in an adult way that they'd really upset us and made one of the other children sad, the majority of them felt bad about it and some even started crying.
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
4,224 posts
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Posted:
hmmmmmmm interesting... and a subject that touches me quite a lot so pardon m if i get emotional on taht one ...
I have to say that in theory I am very much in agreement with NYC all the way...
I do think that often we use violence out of lazyness for not wanting to take the time to make a point in another more peacefull way...
and sometimes we make a point violently because we need to get rid of the tremendous fear that just invaded our hearts ... and that is not fair because we are responsible for that feeling...
pele i understqnd your point and agree... honestly i have no idea what mother i will be but i know what mother i will not be ... hopefully ...
because while all of you seem shocked by teh slaps the kids gets, I, on the otehr hand am mortified by the mental violence he receives ... no boundaries, nothing is fair or clear... mind ****ing by his mum who uses cruelty to releive her own sadness or stress or whatever it is ...
I think i am against slaps and spanks but when used mildly allthough i am against them , they shock me a lot less than mental cruelty humiliation and violence because the traces this leaves are so deep, the scars hardly ever really heal...
and yes I think there should sometimes bea permit issued to allow people to have babies ...
just my opinion ..
shine on
cass
hmmmmmmm interesting... and a subject that touches me quite a lot so pardon m if i get emotional on taht one ...
I have to say that in theory I am very much in agreement with NYC all the way...
I do think that often we use violence out of lazyness for not wanting to take the time to make a point in another more peacefull way...
and sometimes we make a point violently because we need to get rid of the tremendous fear that just invaded our hearts ... and that is not fair because we are responsible for that feeling...
pele i understqnd your point and agree... honestly i have no idea what mother i will be but i know what mother i will not be ... hopefully ...
because while all of you seem shocked by teh slaps the kids gets, I, on the otehr hand am mortified by the mental violence he receives ... no boundaries, nothing is fair or clear... mind ****ing by his mum who uses cruelty to releive her own sadness or stress or whatever it is ...
I think i am against slaps and spanks but when used mildly allthough i am against them , they shock me a lot less than mental cruelty humiliation and violence because the traces this leaves are so deep, the scars hardly ever really heal...
and yes I think there should sometimes bea permit issued to allow people to have babies ...
just my opinion ..
shine on
cass
"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Ah yes, the ever popular "We shouldn't judge murderers unless you've actually murdered someone yourself" arguement.
I wouldn't consider it ethical to hit a kid. Ever. Those are the standards I put only on myself.
Maybe when I do have kids, I will hit them. Maybe I'll go on a 12 state killing spree. Just because I'll do it, doesn't make it right.
And this "I know someone who .... and they turned out .... " is a crap arguement as well. My college buddy was raped by a parent and she turned out fine, I mean what's the big deal right?
(Not comparing rape to spanking, just invalidating the "...and they turned out fine" arguement.)
I think that this is one of those things that they'll call 'barbaric' 100 years in the future (as well as our sewar system and medical system but that's another story ) I mean, perhaps only in theory, it becomes more apparant that a full grown adult smacking a baby to keep it in line is pretty barbaric. But I'm sure it's just me.
Ah yes, the ever popular "We shouldn't judge murderers unless you've actually murdered someone yourself" arguement.
I wouldn't consider it ethical to hit a kid. Ever. Those are the standards I put only on myself.
Maybe when I do have kids, I will hit them. Maybe I'll go on a 12 state killing spree. Just because I'll do it, doesn't make it right.
And this "I know someone who .... and they turned out .... " is a crap arguement as well. My college buddy was raped by a parent and she turned out fine, I mean what's the big deal right?
(Not comparing rape to spanking, just invalidating the "...and they turned out fine" arguement.)
I think that this is one of those things that they'll call 'barbaric' 100 years in the future (as well as our sewar system and medical system but that's another story ) I mean, perhaps only in theory, it becomes more apparant that a full grown adult smacking a baby to keep it in line is pretty barbaric. But I'm sure it's just me.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
member
60 posts
Location: the world at large (mainly UK)
member
60 posts
Location: the world at large (mainly UK)
Posted:
well i am another of the beaten masses that believe that phisical punishment is required as long aqs there are limits and boundries set.
as a child my parents(mother to be precise) would warn us to stop something in a time period or we would be punished. the period would normally be 10 secounds with a slow count. i learnt how to count to 9 very quickly. but i know that if i overstepped the mark there was no quarter the punishment was given. in this way i know what i was being punished for and that it was my fault because i was warned and yet did not stop. this i learn't from the age of 2, so you canart say that the very young wont learn you do.
the problems come when there is no warning and no consistancy!
in the case of the child at the station there was no consistancy in the warning or crime to punishment. in fact it seams that only when the mother was being anoyed was there punishment not when there was risk to the child or to others peace of mind.
this is important, the reason for why there needs to be a punishment must always be explained to the child. in this way a child learns right from wrong and asociates action with reaction rather than a disjointed understanding of what is and what is not allowed to happen.
humans are phisical creaters, and we react to everything in phisical ways, tio say that you can punish a child souly by verbal means is fine in some cercumstances but will not always work. this must be looked at both ways though in that phisical punishment must be a last resort, and only used sparingly. make it comen and you have nothing left.
the lack of this type of final punishment from schools i feel has allowed the child to gain control over anysituation. the child knows that in the UK at least, no teacher can even touch him or her so they have the advantage. the worst that can happen is that they are sent to the head, and either warned, suspended or expelled. the last 2 get them out of school which is what most unrealy children believe they want to happen.
going back to the incident on the train though, for those of you who have read this far ask yourself this, i mean no disrespect to the poster of this thread, but why did you not step in if you thought the treatment of the child was beoynd the pale? and would any of you readers have of stepped uin if you were there?
Maybe we should not be questioning the mother but questioning our own involvment in the protection of the child from what appears to most to be phisical asalt by the parent?
well i am another of the beaten masses that believe that phisical punishment is required as long aqs there are limits and boundries set.
as a child my parents(mother to be precise) would warn us to stop something in a time period or we would be punished. the period would normally be 10 secounds with a slow count. i learnt how to count to 9 very quickly. but i know that if i overstepped the mark there was no quarter the punishment was given. in this way i know what i was being punished for and that it was my fault because i was warned and yet did not stop. this i learn't from the age of 2, so you canart say that the very young wont learn you do.
the problems come when there is no warning and no consistancy!
in the case of the child at the station there was no consistancy in the warning or crime to punishment. in fact it seams that only when the mother was being anoyed was there punishment not when there was risk to the child or to others peace of mind.
this is important, the reason for why there needs to be a punishment must always be explained to the child. in this way a child learns right from wrong and asociates action with reaction rather than a disjointed understanding of what is and what is not allowed to happen.
humans are phisical creaters, and we react to everything in phisical ways, tio say that you can punish a child souly by verbal means is fine in some cercumstances but will not always work. this must be looked at both ways though in that phisical punishment must be a last resort, and only used sparingly. make it comen and you have nothing left.
the lack of this type of final punishment from schools i feel has allowed the child to gain control over anysituation. the child knows that in the UK at least, no teacher can even touch him or her so they have the advantage. the worst that can happen is that they are sent to the head, and either warned, suspended or expelled. the last 2 get them out of school which is what most unrealy children believe they want to happen.
going back to the incident on the train though, for those of you who have read this far ask yourself this, i mean no disrespect to the poster of this thread, but why did you not step in if you thought the treatment of the child was beoynd the pale? and would any of you readers have of stepped uin if you were there?
Maybe we should not be questioning the mother but questioning our own involvment in the protection of the child from what appears to most to be phisical asalt by the parent?
What you don't know won't hurt you? well i intend to get to know as much as possible so that i can make sure no one else has to so they carn't get hurt.
member
103 posts
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
103 posts
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Posted:
What gets me is that if the kid had been hit by the train, the mother would have been on TV crying about it and everyone would say "oh that poor woman, we should pray for her" or some shit like that. Somedays I really hate people.
What gets me is that if the kid had been hit by the train, the mother would have been on TV crying about it and everyone would say "oh that poor woman, we should pray for her" or some shit like that. Somedays I really hate people.
SILVER Member
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Mumma Hen
6,391 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
This makes me really mad...
I would never in my life lay a hand on my child...I was given "smaked bottoms" and even the belt on one or two occiasions, to be bluntly honest it did nothing more to me than made my bum sting...but in saying that I dont believe that spanking is the way to teach your child.
A parent is there to guide their child through life and to show them right and wrong and in my opinion spanking a child is leading by a very bad example.
I do not have my own children at this stage,but worked as a child care assistant for more than a year with some very troubled children, who used to have a lot of behavioural problems and I always seemd to be able to talk with them so that they would understand how people felt when they misbehaved, and what the consequences will be if that behaviour continues..
I love the fact that child care assistnats are encrouaged to kneel down to the childs height to chat with them at all times so they are not seen as imposing figures and that they are there to talk to not to 'talk down to you' as well... Im not one for humilating kids or embrassing them by smaking them in fromt of people...
To be really honest that lady is really lucky that I wasnt there that day because I would have yelled back at her about how disgusted I was and then promptly rung the police to report the COW to the child protection agency...gggrrrrrr
This makes me really mad...
I would never in my life lay a hand on my child...I was given "smaked bottoms" and even the belt on one or two occiasions, to be bluntly honest it did nothing more to me than made my bum sting...but in saying that I dont believe that spanking is the way to teach your child.
A parent is there to guide their child through life and to show them right and wrong and in my opinion spanking a child is leading by a very bad example.
I do not have my own children at this stage,but worked as a child care assistant for more than a year with some very troubled children, who used to have a lot of behavioural problems and I always seemd to be able to talk with them so that they would understand how people felt when they misbehaved, and what the consequences will be if that behaviour continues..
I love the fact that child care assistnats are encrouaged to kneel down to the childs height to chat with them at all times so they are not seen as imposing figures and that they are there to talk to not to 'talk down to you' as well... Im not one for humilating kids or embrassing them by smaking them in fromt of people...
To be really honest that lady is really lucky that I wasnt there that day because I would have yelled back at her about how disgusted I was and then promptly rung the police to report the COW to the child protection agency...gggrrrrrr
TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
Get a dog from an animal sanctury and you're inspected to make sure you're suitable. It's funny how there's no minimum criteria needed in order to have a child.
I've never hit a child but I came pretty close to hitting a parent once; I was on a bus going past the local primary school, a young mother was talking to her friend while her little boy, aged about 6 I'd guess, sat quietly and looked out the window, as we went past the school he turned to his mother and said "Mommy, there's my school there". She turned to him and said "I don't know why you bother going there 'cause you're so f*cking stupid." And carried on talking to her mate. Absolutely disgusting.
Get a dog from an animal sanctury and you're inspected to make sure you're suitable. It's funny how there's no minimum criteria needed in order to have a child.
I've never hit a child but I came pretty close to hitting a parent once; I was on a bus going past the local primary school, a young mother was talking to her friend while her little boy, aged about 6 I'd guess, sat quietly and looked out the window, as we went past the school he turned to his mother and said "Mommy, there's my school there". She turned to him and said "I don't know why you bother going there 'cause you're so f*cking stupid." And carried on talking to her mate. Absolutely disgusting.
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
Climbing up my leg
141 posts
Location: England
141 posts
Location: England
Posted:
Rozi - I wasn't saying guilt trip the children. What I meant was when I got smacked as a kid, not only did I often not realise what I had done but my instant reaction even when it was my fault was anger back purely because I'd been smacked. I remember my dad once slapped me for bighting him and didn't see the irony. It's like some (not all) parents think that becuase they are larger than their children and happen to have produced a child, it's o.k for them to smack thier kids but not the other way round.
I just think it doesn't hurt to explain to children what they've done and why it's wrong and that disputes can be settled without getting physical.
I don't know, i'm not a parent but I do think that if you smack you're kids you're sending out the wrong signal.
Rozi - I wasn't saying guilt trip the children. What I meant was when I got smacked as a kid, not only did I often not realise what I had done but my instant reaction even when it was my fault was anger back purely because I'd been smacked. I remember my dad once slapped me for bighting him and didn't see the irony. It's like some (not all) parents think that becuase they are larger than their children and happen to have produced a child, it's o.k for them to smack thier kids but not the other way round.
I just think it doesn't hurt to explain to children what they've done and why it's wrong and that disputes can be settled without getting physical.
I don't know, i'm not a parent but I do think that if you smack you're kids you're sending out the wrong signal.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
Dav's story is all too typical of what is seen around the world today. It's disheartening and depressing to see the standard of humanity degrade so visibly as this behaviour is passed from generation to generation. I've often seen it and occasionally confronted the parent about it, with a string of expletives in response.
So, I'm with NYC. And I know what I say now is going to sound petty harsh:
I'd never spank a child. I see it as the same as beatings, stabbings, murder and terrorism - it's all just an expression of violence to achieve one's own desire. Violence is one of the lowest forms human expression and is used as an invalid form of control through intimidation by those unable to control through other, more civilised, effective and human means.
Children learn by exploring and interacting with their world and by copying other humans. If you force them to learn through other means then you're limiting their natural learning processes. Learning and behavioral patterns established through violence and intimidation is a negative process.
You can teach a child not to do something because they are scared of pain, but they will still have the desire to do it and so you're teaching the repression of desire of a potentially unhealthy or harmful activity - not a good recipe for a healthy mental state in adult life. Or you can teach a child not to do something by making them understand why they shouldn't do it. I know what I'd rather try.
And before you ask - no I don't have kids, but I've seen how friends and family bring up their kids. And my own brother was the original child from hell, was never slapped and grew up to be an amazing adult.
Dav's story is all too typical of what is seen around the world today. It's disheartening and depressing to see the standard of humanity degrade so visibly as this behaviour is passed from generation to generation. I've often seen it and occasionally confronted the parent about it, with a string of expletives in response.
So, I'm with NYC. And I know what I say now is going to sound petty harsh:
I'd never spank a child. I see it as the same as beatings, stabbings, murder and terrorism - it's all just an expression of violence to achieve one's own desire. Violence is one of the lowest forms human expression and is used as an invalid form of control through intimidation by those unable to control through other, more civilised, effective and human means.
Children learn by exploring and interacting with their world and by copying other humans. If you force them to learn through other means then you're limiting their natural learning processes. Learning and behavioral patterns established through violence and intimidation is a negative process.
You can teach a child not to do something because they are scared of pain, but they will still have the desire to do it and so you're teaching the repression of desire of a potentially unhealthy or harmful activity - not a good recipe for a healthy mental state in adult life. Or you can teach a child not to do something by making them understand why they shouldn't do it. I know what I'd rather try.
And before you ask - no I don't have kids, but I've seen how friends and family bring up their kids. And my own brother was the original child from hell, was never slapped and grew up to be an amazing adult.
member
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
175 posts
Location: Derry, N. Ireland
Posted:
quote:My answer to this is very simple - I did step in to a situation before (about 2 years ago) and it was a father and his daughter in the street and the man was punching the 6 year old girl with his fist. It was not very hard looking, but I did tell him to stop and that he is abusing the child. The man turned around and punched me in the face and told me to mind my own business. He bust my nose, and I called the police and he was arrested for assult. I was not talking any chances like that again. Oh and he never got prosecuted for child abuse
going back to the incident on the train though, for those of you who have read this far ask yourself this, i mean no disrespect to the poster of this thread, but why did you not step in if you thought the treatment of the child was beoynd the pale? and would any of you readers have of stepped uin if you were there?
Be Good, and if you DONT be Good, Buy a Pram!
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
I think that it will be near impossible to find agreement on this subject because pretty muche everybody judges this by their own standards. If you grew up with spanking then you see it as acceptable and will likely (generalising) spank your own child. This works the same way that that poor child at the train station will almost certainly grow up to smack their kids or the way the children of smokers are statistically (then stats again ) more likely to end up smokers.
I reckon we will see a move away from spanking in much the same way corporal punishement has dissappeared. I was never spanked by my parents and the first time I saw one of my friends getting it from his Dad I couldn't believe my eyes .
I did have the shizzle whipped out of me on a weekly basis in bording school from the age of 10 - 15 in South Africa and I can tell you that when corporal punishment was abolished we missed it cause it was easier punishement that gardening and being grounded...
I think that it will be near impossible to find agreement on this subject because pretty muche everybody judges this by their own standards. If you grew up with spanking then you see it as acceptable and will likely (generalising) spank your own child. This works the same way that that poor child at the train station will almost certainly grow up to smack their kids or the way the children of smokers are statistically (then stats again ) more likely to end up smokers.
I reckon we will see a move away from spanking in much the same way corporal punishement has dissappeared. I was never spanked by my parents and the first time I saw one of my friends getting it from his Dad I couldn't believe my eyes .
I did have the shizzle whipped out of me on a weekly basis in bording school from the age of 10 - 15 in South Africa and I can tell you that when corporal punishment was abolished we missed it cause it was easier punishement that gardening and being grounded...
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
I can't beleive that, the poor kid must have a crap life with a crap mother like that!!
Smacking kids is ok, so long as it isn't extreme or unjustified (how do you justify??!!). A childs brain doesn't develop to understand consequences and words until it's much older, but discipline, administered at the right time/place can be effective to help an under-developed mind understand social wrongs and rights. Like smacking a dog for crapping in your lounge!
So basically smacking is ok but I think that woman doesn't deserve a child to smack! I feel really sorry for that poor kid!
I don't know how you or the Fat Controller managed to resist goin over and having a few words
I can't beleive that, the poor kid must have a crap life with a crap mother like that!!
Smacking kids is ok, so long as it isn't extreme or unjustified (how do you justify??!!). A childs brain doesn't develop to understand consequences and words until it's much older, but discipline, administered at the right time/place can be effective to help an under-developed mind understand social wrongs and rights. Like smacking a dog for crapping in your lounge!
So basically smacking is ok but I think that woman doesn't deserve a child to smack! I feel really sorry for that poor kid!
I don't know how you or the Fat Controller managed to resist goin over and having a few words
Let's relight this forum 
member
50 posts
Location: Colchester
50 posts
Location: Colchester
Posted:
All i know is that when i was little (4 or 5) i was in a shop and just starting eating some sweets off the shelf (i didn't know any better), well my mum spanked me so hard (or so it seemed at the time) that i can only thing i can steal without feeling guilty is a traffic cone (only one mind).
as others have said, we should separate what that women did (i know you don't like violence but you can argue she needs a beating) and general spanking as a form of discipline.
All i know is that when i was little (4 or 5) i was in a shop and just starting eating some sweets off the shelf (i didn't know any better), well my mum spanked me so hard (or so it seemed at the time) that i can only thing i can steal without feeling guilty is a traffic cone (only one mind).
as others have said, we should separate what that women did (i know you don't like violence but you can argue she needs a beating) and general spanking as a form of discipline.
Monkey see, Monkey do...
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,617 posts
Location: Berlin, Ireland
Posted:
What I should have said was that that child will almost certainly mentally abuse (in my opinion) their kids and are more likely (in my opinion) to physically abuse their children too.
quote:Sorry if that was a bit ambiguous. I wasn't trying to suggest that child will spank their kids because they were beaten.
This works the same way that that poor child at the train station will almost certainly grow up to smack their kids
What I should have said was that that child will almost certainly mentally abuse (in my opinion) their kids and are more likely (in my opinion) to physically abuse their children too.
I live in a world of infinite possibilities.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Well said Dom, thanks.
Well said Dom, thanks.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
frostypaw - Slapping in that form and use is still wrong, it's still violence and the wrong way to teach people. Do you not see any other options than slapping their hand down, letting them get burnt or making them feel burdened by guilty? There is another way.
I think we often mistake children for idiots
frostypaw - Slapping in that form and use is still wrong, it's still violence and the wrong way to teach people. Do you not see any other options than slapping their hand down, letting them get burnt or making them feel burdened by guilty? There is another way.
I think we often mistake children for idiots
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
children are not idiots - they just have very little to reference their experiences against.
take the reaching for the pan example how do you explain to child that has never been burnt why it is such a bad thing?
if the child has never experienced pain more intense then say a grazed knee, how can you be sure that your warning of great pain will be heeded by a mind so young?
my worry is that a mind that is both unused to balanced reasoning and has no good points of reference on a subject will be very hard to completely convince - children with their curiosity and inqusitiveness may well (naively) reason that from their own experiences pain isn't as bad as they've been told and hence try something again later.
i believe physical punishment is an invaluable as a last choice deterrent ie. 'you've been told not to do that and why three times now, next time you get a smack on the bottom'.
children are not idiots - they just have very little to reference their experiences against.
take the reaching for the pan example how do you explain to child that has never been burnt why it is such a bad thing?
if the child has never experienced pain more intense then say a grazed knee, how can you be sure that your warning of great pain will be heeded by a mind so young?
my worry is that a mind that is both unused to balanced reasoning and has no good points of reference on a subject will be very hard to completely convince - children with their curiosity and inqusitiveness may well (naively) reason that from their own experiences pain isn't as bad as they've been told and hence try something again later.
i believe physical punishment is an invaluable as a last choice deterrent ie. 'you've been told not to do that and why three times now, next time you get a smack on the bottom'.
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
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