Forums > Social Chat > Fire Artist Or Fire Dancer?

Posted: 3rd Feb 2011
I consider them one and the same.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass

Posted: 3rd Feb 2011
Actually, i would say they were both completly different.
Flow comes into both, because you want the whole thing to look seamless, or flow together.
Now, dancing with fire is what it is. A dance. Only difference is, you have props (your poi).
Then you have a performance, where you basicaly, show off your skills. You can still move around and stuff, but most of the attention is drawn to the manipulation of the poi instead of the poi and dancer.
Thats just my view though. Im probably completly wrong though, because its all still fairly new to me.

'You can only be free when you have nothing to loose'

Posted: 3rd Feb 2011
If you look at some of the best performers you'll see a mix of the two, some leaning more towards one than the other. Like comparing Nick Woolsey to Alien Jon. But no matter who you look at, all the best performances for the masses involve them bringing attention, not so much to their technical skill at all, but to the over all dance. Not essentially dance in the normal sense, but also incorporating dance of the poi and how the two blend together seamlessly to create the illusion that the poi and the dancer are one and the same.

I urge you to look closely at Nick and Nevisoul especially. These are two of my favorites because they just seem to be one with their poi. The performance to music, I believe, comes from using the poi and yourself to sort of "paint" your emotions in the space around you, not just go with the beat of the music. The "painting" not only refers to painting your patterns with the poi, but the expression using your body and using it to compliment the painting done with the poi. Doing one thing with poi in one stance or movement can look ENTIRELY different with an entirely different feel if you change your body movement or body language.

This fact is entirely why I stress so hardly to people to stop keeping their body crunched in, ESPECIALLY YOU! TECHIES! You know you're like the biggest portion of this group and I have no idea why. I've also noticed almost all that started as glowstringers do this. I'll explain to you exactly why it bother me. Yes I can look at what you're doing and have my jaw drop with the stuff you do, I'm only a moderate techie (I think). BUT! The way you show yourself in that contracted stance just makes you look like bleh, especially when it's to the point where you're slouched. It gives the performer an unconfident look, makes you look more hesitant most of the time, and most of all keeps you from complimenting your poi "painting" with the expression of your body because what you're body is saying is all negative, and no matter how positive your amazing technical skills are, you still look like you're afraid of something, whether it be the crowd, hitting yourself, the camera or what have you (I'm not saying you are, just what it looks like).

So this notion of "Artist" or "Dancer" as a performer should be the same. The problem is if you look like Smeagle protecting his ring, there's no "Dance" involved and the look of being an "Art" tends to fade away and instead it just becomes a "Skill." And I can tell you right now for just about anyone, an "art" is much more pleasing to watch than a "skill."

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass

Posted: 3rd Feb 2011
I dont agree with this at all, lots of great spinners are glowstickers, hinde is a good example, he or i or wyat davis do absolutly no dancing and let they poi do all the work they have more of a paninting a picture with just the poi, I do see how a fire dancer is also an artist so i guess i should have just used a different word, but i dont like nick woosleys dancing style at all i cant even watch him spin.

Posted: 3rd Feb 2011
define dance then

Dance is an art form that generally refers to movement of the body, usually rhythmic and to music, used as a form of expression, social interaction or presented in a spiritual or performance setting.

To use the Wiki definition. pretty much anything in the spinning discipline would fall under that definition.

It's mostly a matter of what people choose to call it. I prefer the term dancing, if only because I like the idea that there is a sense I could be considered a good dancer in, even if it's not *exactly* feasible in a club say

Just a dancer in the dark

Posted: 3rd Feb 2011
The main thing is at least your stance, as a performer performing to an audience especially of non-spinners you need to make a presence and that is mainly done with your body language. If you ask any professional they're gonna point that out to you. I've had it told to me and I made sure to practice it from about a month or so into my spinning. My mom was a tough critic And in the Detroit Fire Guild they've have performance workshops and the first thing that is always mentioned is body language. The firt practice I went to had one of these and worked mostly on "stage faces." Some of it wasn't really for me, more of a thing to do if you're say a fire-spinning clown (yes we have lots). We have lots of messed up clowns.

And you ARE talking about "ways you can perform fire to entertain a crowd." There should a "with" in there as I'm a grammar nazi but it's a quote so whatever. If you don't agree with me ask a professional about how to give yourself a stage presence. And the way to get rid of that presence is to crunch yourself into a little ball like you're hiding from the crowd.

The only luck is bad luck.

Shut up before I stall my poi up your ass

Posted: 4th Feb 2011
I side more with SoD on this one, and fail to see the distinction, or rather the point of making a distinction.

Dancers practice the artform known as dance. *shrug*

'We're all mad here. I'm mad, you're mad." [said the Cat.]
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "Or you wouldn't have come here."
- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures In Wonderland

Posted: 4th Feb 2011
Do what you enjoy and do it to the best degree possible. When I spin I enjoy dancing and moving with the poi, it feels liberating. But at the same time technical skill is important and using a large combination of different moves is equally vital to my routine. I'd get bored standing in one place as well as running around only doing two weaves.

And if you're engaging the crowd, a good performer will have an eye for what the crowd wants because they're the most vital aspect. What sort of crowd is it? Are they new to the idea of fire performance, or is it entirely veteran performers and critics to show off for? People will have different levels of expectations. Somebody with zero exposure to our interests are much more impressed by things other performers consider basic. They may not notice the subtleties which makes some moves difficult. I've had people clap and ooh over 3bt btb turns and the same crowd will cheer and go nuts over two simple tosses and a buzzsaw. Most of them had never seen fire poi.

What I personally find distasteful regardless of skill level is people that just get caught up doing weaves ad nauseam. When I see that on video all I see are circles and it quickly becomes boring. Circles in front, circles to the sides, circles above the head, more circles back in front oh look circles behind the back. Yawn! Please break up the routine with some variety. This is more acceptable to people of a beginners level, in which case they need more alone practice time and shouldn't be passing off the fire performers equivalent of practice sketches as high examples of what we are capable of.

Regardless an individual's performance should be of a quality that it looks good when not on fire. If a person's skill level is so lacking that their basic routine can't spark some level of interest then the addition of fire shouldn't fill a void of talent.

"Are you sure it's safe to drink bleach?"
"Yes, bleach is 90% water, we are 90% water, therefore: we are bleach."
-Nathan Explosion, Metalocalypse