Forums > Social Chat > should children always be told the truth?
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Carpal \'Tunnel
2,984 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,984 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
hey right i found alot of stuff out then thought..... would have been nice if i was told the truth...does that mean children should or am i just weird?
loves all
Devilsarmy
xxx
xxx
hey right i found alot of stuff out then thought..... would have been nice if i was told the truth...does that mean children should or am i just weird?
loves all
Devilsarmy
xxx
xxxActually back on HoP guys ...
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
There's a question of what's "lying" to a child and what's just messing with a child's head. Lying to a child is damaging. Messing with their heads is simply a perk of being an adult.
And THAT is why if you're in the Bronx and you see little kids walking around digging in their ears, you know they're my patients. It's because I've been busy pulling coins out of their ears and they want to know if they can find more!
There's a question of what's "lying" to a child and what's just messing with a child's head. Lying to a child is damaging. Messing with their heads is simply a perk of being an adult.
And THAT is why if you're in the Bronx and you see little kids walking around digging in their ears, you know they're my patients. It's because I've been busy pulling coins out of their ears and they want to know if they can find more!
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
enthusiast
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
255 posts
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates
Posted:
I suppose it depends in what other meaning (other than the meaning spouted by the commercial Christmas machine) you give to folkloric heros like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. By giving these characters a personality closer to their original pagan roots, you give them more meaning. Effectively, you are encouraging the magic playground of imagination that seems to be increasingly threatened by today's mass culture.
However, kids also need some kind of definition between what is real and what isn't. Many adults encourage childhood fantasy as reality, only to be horrified when their children feel betrayed by the revelation.
I'd rather shoot straight and be honest. Tell my (as yet unborn) kids the truth, keeping in mind what they can deal with... Give them food for imagination but help them deal with the definition between fiction and fact.
Written by: BEZERKER
I kind of get frustrated when people spout the line about Santa being a marketing tool to jip families out of their fortune.
Always puzzled at some people's bitterness and feelings of betrayal over being told Santa was real. It's a lark for goodness' sake. What good is the naievety of youth if not to experience some magic? If you can't explain WHY these things were done (IE to add to the fun of the occasion) then you must be nuts.
I suppose it depends in what other meaning (other than the meaning spouted by the commercial Christmas machine) you give to folkloric heros like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy. By giving these characters a personality closer to their original pagan roots, you give them more meaning. Effectively, you are encouraging the magic playground of imagination that seems to be increasingly threatened by today's mass culture.
However, kids also need some kind of definition between what is real and what isn't. Many adults encourage childhood fantasy as reality, only to be horrified when their children feel betrayed by the revelation.
I'd rather shoot straight and be honest. Tell my (as yet unborn) kids the truth, keeping in mind what they can deal with... Give them food for imagination but help them deal with the definition between fiction and fact.
"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman
Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
What kind of lies are you referring to devilsarmy?
I could say my parents lied to me about lots of stuff too, I believed in the tooth fairy and santa claus. Finding out its not real is just a part of growing up i think. I wasnt particularly upset when I found out it wasnt true, i mean how CAN santa exist when you see hundreds of santas dressed up at Christmas?! (I used to think alot as a kid).
I could help you a lot better if i knew what sorta thing you were referring to.
If for example your mum said "the tooth fairy IS real god dammit!" i'd say that was your mum being a bit loopy.
If however she'd been lying about your biology and who your real dad is, I'd say that was pretty serious.
What kind of lies are you referring to devilsarmy?
I could say my parents lied to me about lots of stuff too, I believed in the tooth fairy and santa claus. Finding out its not real is just a part of growing up i think. I wasnt particularly upset when I found out it wasnt true, i mean how CAN santa exist when you see hundreds of santas dressed up at Christmas?! (I used to think alot as a kid).
I could help you a lot better if i knew what sorta thing you were referring to.
If for example your mum said "the tooth fairy IS real god dammit!" i'd say that was your mum being a bit loopy.
If however she'd been lying about your biology and who your real dad is, I'd say that was pretty serious.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
member
56 posts
Location: Cape Town The Mother City, South Africa
member
56 posts
Location: Cape Town The Mother City, South Africa
Posted:
Hi, mabey its a bit of topic, but when i am a mother, i would tell my child there is no such thing as santa... anymore, let me explain:
Saint Nicholas was born in the Middle East about 350 miles northwest of Bethlehem in the fourth century. He grew up to become the bishop of Myra (now Kale), his hometown, Lycia, near the coast of what is now Turkey. Legends tell of his love for children, his kindness and the miracles he brought about.
Perhaps the most famous story of all tells how he helped three unfortunate young sisters who all had suitors but had no dowries because their father, a poor nobleman, could not raise the money. So they could not marry.
Now the bishop Nicholas was a shy man and did not like to give money directly , so he thought of a way to give it anonymously. When the first daughter was ready to marry, the good bishop tossed a bag of gold into the house at night. Later, when the second daughter prepared to marry, she too received a mysterious bag of gold. When the third daughter prepared to marry, the poor nobleman was determined to find out who had been so generous. So he kept watch and saw the bishop drop another bag of gold into the house. It has been said that Saint Nicholas climbed on the roof and dropped the third bag of gold down the chimney where it landed in a stocking hung to dry, giving us a reason to hang up Christmas stockings today. When the father saw what had happened, Nicholas begged him to keep the secret, but, of course, the news got out. From then on, whenever anyone received an unexpected gift, they thanked Nicholas.
Six hundred years later, the Russian Emperor Vladimir visited Constantinople and heard all the wonderful stories about Bishop Nicholas and decided to make him the patron saint of Russia. The stories even spread to the Laplands - to the people of the reindeer sleds.
The anniversary of Nicholas' death, December 6th, either 345 A.D. or 352 A.D., is so close to Christmas that, in many countries, the two merged. But in Germany and the Netherlands, the two remain separate.
p.s - Saint Nicholas = Sinterklaas(dutch) = Santa clause
sorry, this is one very long post
Hi, mabey its a bit of topic, but when i am a mother, i would tell my child there is no such thing as santa... anymore, let me explain:
Saint Nicholas was born in the Middle East about 350 miles northwest of Bethlehem in the fourth century. He grew up to become the bishop of Myra (now Kale), his hometown, Lycia, near the coast of what is now Turkey. Legends tell of his love for children, his kindness and the miracles he brought about.
Perhaps the most famous story of all tells how he helped three unfortunate young sisters who all had suitors but had no dowries because their father, a poor nobleman, could not raise the money. So they could not marry.
Now the bishop Nicholas was a shy man and did not like to give money directly , so he thought of a way to give it anonymously. When the first daughter was ready to marry, the good bishop tossed a bag of gold into the house at night. Later, when the second daughter prepared to marry, she too received a mysterious bag of gold. When the third daughter prepared to marry, the poor nobleman was determined to find out who had been so generous. So he kept watch and saw the bishop drop another bag of gold into the house. It has been said that Saint Nicholas climbed on the roof and dropped the third bag of gold down the chimney where it landed in a stocking hung to dry, giving us a reason to hang up Christmas stockings today. When the father saw what had happened, Nicholas begged him to keep the secret, but, of course, the news got out. From then on, whenever anyone received an unexpected gift, they thanked Nicholas.
Six hundred years later, the Russian Emperor Vladimir visited Constantinople and heard all the wonderful stories about Bishop Nicholas and decided to make him the patron saint of Russia. The stories even spread to the Laplands - to the people of the reindeer sleds.
The anniversary of Nicholas' death, December 6th, either 345 A.D. or 352 A.D., is so close to Christmas that, in many countries, the two merged. But in Germany and the Netherlands, the two remain separate.
p.s - Saint Nicholas = Sinterklaas(dutch) = Santa clause
sorry, this is one very long post
"My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely."
"Insanity is my only means of relaxation."
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
I think if you told your little kids that, they would never ask you anything again for fear of being bored to death!!!
I think if you told your little kids that, they would never ask you anything again for fear of being bored to death!!!
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
member
56 posts
Location: Cape Town The Mother City, South Africa
member
56 posts
Location: Cape Town The Mother City, South Africa
Posted:
I think you might have a valid point
I think you might have a valid point
"My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely."
"Insanity is my only means of relaxation."
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I liked the easter bunny. I wasn't devastated when I found out he was a lie, but I liked to believe in him, and if I ever have kids he's gonna hide their eggs, too!
Also with death I'm not sure. There's different ways of explaining death, and I would prefer the "have gone to sleep and moved on to heaven" to "there is no soul and whatever life they had is gone now and as you can see they weren't too happy when they died so it's really all futile". (yeah I know it's a bit extreme, but I found it a huge consolation as a kid thinking that my dead relatives were in a happy place)
I liked the easter bunny. I wasn't devastated when I found out he was a lie, but I liked to believe in him, and if I ever have kids he's gonna hide their eggs, too!
Also with death I'm not sure. There's different ways of explaining death, and I would prefer the "have gone to sleep and moved on to heaven" to "there is no soul and whatever life they had is gone now and as you can see they weren't too happy when they died so it's really all futile". (yeah I know it's a bit extreme, but I found it a huge consolation as a kid thinking that my dead relatives were in a happy place)
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Death is different though. We never know for a fact what happens after death. I believe our soul still exists. I'll tell kids my opinion, but put across other's opinions too and say that no one really knows for sure.
It's not lying, its just different perspectives.
Death is different though. We never know for a fact what happens after death. I believe our soul still exists. I'll tell kids my opinion, but put across other's opinions too and say that no one really knows for sure.
It's not lying, its just different perspectives.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
SILVER Member
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
addict
449 posts
Location: Australia
Posted:
Lying to children eventually gives a false impression that the world is an evil and wicked place which must be somehow covered up with fairy tales and ignorance. It basically encourages escapism.
This isn't true; there is a lot of beauty and love in the world. If kids are given the chance to see some of society's problems from a mature stance, they are more likely to have a more balanced perception in the long run.
Kids are smarter than they seem. They can appear stupid because they don't know very much, but they really aren't. Sure there are kids that need things to be taught in steps; it really depends on the kid in question.
I thought the method of teaching physics/chemistry in high school was bullshit. Every year I was told that what I was taught the year before was slightly wrong, but it was just a building block. All that did was confuse me more, and make me lose faith in what they were teaching. It even happens in university.
Lying to children eventually gives a false impression that the world is an evil and wicked place which must be somehow covered up with fairy tales and ignorance. It basically encourages escapism.
This isn't true; there is a lot of beauty and love in the world. If kids are given the chance to see some of society's problems from a mature stance, they are more likely to have a more balanced perception in the long run.
Written by: Mynci
you can't always expect a child to "learn" something in 1 bite. too complicated to get into here but it's the truth.
on imoprtant matters..tell the truth. but do you lie so they can have a childhood...or make them old before their time... I would stick with the truth
SANTAS DEAD COZ I KILLED HIM
Kids are smarter than they seem. They can appear stupid because they don't know very much, but they really aren't. Sure there are kids that need things to be taught in steps; it really depends on the kid in question.
I thought the method of teaching physics/chemistry in high school was bullshit. Every year I was told that what I was taught the year before was slightly wrong, but it was just a building block. All that did was confuse me more, and make me lose faith in what they were teaching. It even happens in university.
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
YOU DONT KNOW THE TRUTH!
*thinks back to the 60's and 70's pages in the "what do you know about...." thread
YOU DONT KNOW THE TRUTH!
*thinks back to the 60's and 70's pages in the "what do you know about...." thread
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
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BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
I was lied to as a kid about things like the tooth fairy, etc. I'm glad I was. Childhood is precious. I never want to let it go. I'm still trying to live mine now at the age of 23. Laughing, and giggling, and playing, and being silly, while they may not seem very 'adult and grown up', they're certainly a lot better for you than being forced to grow up when you don't want to, or even growing up ahead of your time.
Of course, when I asked my parents where babies come from, I was given a book that had all the facts in it, and was specially catered for children. That was wicked.
Although my parents messed up a lot at times, they had their ideals in the right place.
But yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is, the innocence of childhood is precious. why so many people want to lose it as soon as they can is beyond me.
I was lied to as a kid about things like the tooth fairy, etc. I'm glad I was. Childhood is precious. I never want to let it go. I'm still trying to live mine now at the age of 23. Laughing, and giggling, and playing, and being silly, while they may not seem very 'adult and grown up', they're certainly a lot better for you than being forced to grow up when you don't want to, or even growing up ahead of your time.
Of course, when I asked my parents where babies come from, I was given a book that had all the facts in it, and was specially catered for children. That was wicked.
Although my parents messed up a lot at times, they had their ideals in the right place.
But yeah, I think what I'm trying to say is, the innocence of childhood is precious. why so many people want to lose it as soon as they can is beyond me.
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Written by: PsyRush
I thought the method of teaching physics/chemistry in high school was bullshit. Every year I was told that what I was taught the year before was slightly wrong, but it was just a building block. All that did was confuse me more, and make me lose faith in what they were teaching.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
1 + 1 = 3
3,540 posts
Location: Bristol UK
Posted:
Ha ha! I heard something about that at Uni...
In the chemistry lectures, the first thing they were told was: Forget your A levels, they're not right. We're gonna teach you the better and correct things...
Ha ha! I heard something about that at Uni...
In the chemistry lectures, the first thing they were told was: Forget your A levels, they're not right. We're gonna teach you the better and correct things...
Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.
enthusiast
237 posts
237 posts
Posted:
But what is music, movies, books, art, sport, poi etc. except escapism? The world IS an evil and wicked place.
Sure there's other meanings and motivations for engaging in these activities but essentially I think a shared quality of all these things is that we are escaping from any form of responsibility and forced (either perceived or actual) behaviour or task. So in that regard I think the encouragement of escapism isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course there are limits to that.
I think Liquifies_Through_Contact gets it perfectly. Childhood is so great for believing in magic. Pick the battles logically (like trying to discuss sex, death etc.) but for the likes of Santa and the Tooth Fairy? Keep the magic alive.
Written by: PsyRush
Lying to children eventually gives a false impression that the world is an evil and wicked place which must be somehow covered up with fairy tales and ignorance. It basically encourages escapism.
But what is music, movies, books, art, sport, poi etc. except escapism? The world IS an evil and wicked place.
Sure there's other meanings and motivations for engaging in these activities but essentially I think a shared quality of all these things is that we are escaping from any form of responsibility and forced (either perceived or actual) behaviour or task. So in that regard I think the encouragement of escapism isn't necessarily a bad thing. Of course there are limits to that.
I think Liquifies_Through_Contact gets it perfectly. Childhood is so great for believing in magic. Pick the battles logically (like trying to discuss sex, death etc.) but for the likes of Santa and the Tooth Fairy? Keep the magic alive.
BRONZE Member
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
grumpy poorly froggy
3,999 posts
Location: Nuneaton, United Kingdom
Posted:
yes children shouldalways be told the truth but to the level they could easy understand for their age. some times its just the wrong place or time to get into. if its not appropriate i usualy tell them that and that we will discuss it at another time, even if its a case of having to say "you'll understand more when your a little older"
and on the subject of being lied to about sex... i highly recomend a book by babette cole called mummy laid an egg. Its fantastic.
yes children shouldalways be told the truth but to the level they could easy understand for their age. some times its just the wrong place or time to get into. if its not appropriate i usualy tell them that and that we will discuss it at another time, even if its a case of having to say "you'll understand more when your a little older"
and on the subject of being lied to about sex... i highly recomend a book by babette cole called mummy laid an egg. Its fantastic.
Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows
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