Forums > Social Chat > Ideas please for our 9/11 day-after burn coming up
Login/Join to ParticipateLaguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
who's got some ideas, please, out of your warm pyro's heart, for how to handle our group's next burn, practical ways we might theme it a bit, for the day after 9/11?
here's what we're saying now (freshly composed):
"Phoenix Burn Thursday Sept 12!
Thursday September 12, 2002 8:45 PM - midnight
[location]
it's been a trying year across the US since the World Trade Towers went up in smoke. after tragedy, we Americans have rebuilt our spirit. it's time to honor what's past while also celebrating our bonds of friendship and our unquenchable American spirit. just like the immortal mythical phoenix, bird of fire, we rise from our ashes to new glory, goodness, & love.
news & events up to the day before our burn are sure to focus on 9/11 in NYC. some of us have family & friends there, too! come relax out the kinks this tragedy has left in everyone, with a burn celebrating the positive good in the magic of fire, safely and happily enjoyed among friends! while we're blessed with warm weather, play 'til midnight thursday night at our home burn spot. come chill as a warmly welcome member of your OrangeFire family."
we've put together a little logo for this burn, using a photo of an unknown group member which looks to my eye just like a german-eagle style phoenix with raised wings, maybe some will see it in the flames. it's in our local thread if you wanna see it.
short of getting the local mayor or disaster chief to what's a kinda underground burn right now, what could we do telling spinners about it beforehand, and what can we do a bit during the burn to be meaningful, heartful, yet not distasteful to peeps about this?
since our play is working with fire, we're the ones who love it, when a building full of precious life and national symbolism goes up in flame & smoke, what can we do out of our special identity among people?
respectfully lookin for your advice,
~ Mike
who's got some ideas, please, out of your warm pyro's heart, for how to handle our group's next burn, practical ways we might theme it a bit, for the day after 9/11?
here's what we're saying now (freshly composed):
"Phoenix Burn Thursday Sept 12!
Thursday September 12, 2002 8:45 PM - midnight
[location]
it's been a trying year across the US since the World Trade Towers went up in smoke. after tragedy, we Americans have rebuilt our spirit. it's time to honor what's past while also celebrating our bonds of friendship and our unquenchable American spirit. just like the immortal mythical phoenix, bird of fire, we rise from our ashes to new glory, goodness, & love.
news & events up to the day before our burn are sure to focus on 9/11 in NYC. some of us have family & friends there, too! come relax out the kinks this tragedy has left in everyone, with a burn celebrating the positive good in the magic of fire, safely and happily enjoyed among friends! while we're blessed with warm weather, play 'til midnight thursday night at our home burn spot. come chill as a warmly welcome member of your OrangeFire family."
we've put together a little logo for this burn, using a photo of an unknown group member which looks to my eye just like a german-eagle style phoenix with raised wings, maybe some will see it in the flames. it's in our local thread if you wanna see it.
short of getting the local mayor or disaster chief to what's a kinda underground burn right now, what could we do telling spinners about it beforehand, and what can we do a bit during the burn to be meaningful, heartful, yet not distasteful to peeps about this?
since our play is working with fire, we're the ones who love it, when a building full of precious life and national symbolism goes up in flame & smoke, what can we do out of our special identity among people?
respectfully lookin for your advice,
~ Mike
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Candle light vigil, moment of silence, then burn could be nice. But I would keep it somber....
Candle light vigil, moment of silence, then burn could be nice. But I would keep it somber....
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
NYC, i'm honored, what an appropriate first person to respond, one i greatly respect. and candlelight would be beautiful, i led an interfaith one on the national prayer night afterwards last year, have the right standing vessel.
ok, that may be best, i'm also way open to new ideas, both in time to send out announcement, and in time to arrange at the burn.
what i discussed just now with fellow admin Russell (who's not regularly online, so not at HoP) is so far the obvious: do we want to actually take up a collection? seems that moment's passed. maybe there's a way to show our solidarity with you in NYC, maybe take a photo of something we do, occurs to me. like the AIDS quilt, but not something which takes all year, something people can all DO together? fuelwriting in the sand (it's on a beach & then gather around spinning?).
there may be another regular from this beach who might come, Matt, religious kid who writes guitar songs, would surely be inspired, if he wants to join us, i'm askin him by e-mail, told him half of us are different faiths.
who's moved to fiery inspiration on this?
[ 31 August 2002, 15:47: Message edited by: FireMike ]
NYC, i'm honored, what an appropriate first person to respond, one i greatly respect. and candlelight would be beautiful, i led an interfaith one on the national prayer night afterwards last year, have the right standing vessel.
ok, that may be best, i'm also way open to new ideas, both in time to send out announcement, and in time to arrange at the burn.
what i discussed just now with fellow admin Russell (who's not regularly online, so not at HoP) is so far the obvious: do we want to actually take up a collection? seems that moment's passed. maybe there's a way to show our solidarity with you in NYC, maybe take a photo of something we do, occurs to me. like the AIDS quilt, but not something which takes all year, something people can all DO together? fuelwriting in the sand (it's on a beach & then gather around spinning?).
there may be another regular from this beach who might come, Matt, religious kid who writes guitar songs, would surely be inspired, if he wants to join us, i'm askin him by e-mail, told him half of us are different faiths.
who's moved to fiery inspiration on this?
[ 31 August 2002, 15:47: Message edited by: FireMike ]
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
SILVER Member
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
100 characters max...
2,996 posts
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted:
It is difficult, because flame has such awful connatations in these tragedies.
I would suggest this, a single flame of remembrance over which you read or sing any blessings, any wishes, any prayers.
Use that single flame to light all staff & poi, one at a time. Don't do fast twirling, play slow music. Make it serene but uplifting.
Provide unlookers with candles that they can light from the flame.
That way you are taking the flame of people's memories and ideas to make something beautiful, to give people a chance to cry, laugh, sing... Making the memories useful.
Reclaim the flame as healing, warming, life-giving...
It is difficult, because flame has such awful connatations in these tragedies.
I would suggest this, a single flame of remembrance over which you read or sing any blessings, any wishes, any prayers.
Use that single flame to light all staff & poi, one at a time. Don't do fast twirling, play slow music. Make it serene but uplifting.
Provide unlookers with candles that they can light from the flame.
That way you are taking the flame of people's memories and ideas to make something beautiful, to give people a chance to cry, laugh, sing... Making the memories useful.
Reclaim the flame as healing, warming, life-giving...
It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.
What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
wow, i really like Rozi's ideas....
wow, i really like Rozi's ideas....
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
I like Rozi's idea. I'm just going to throw in a suggestion that you don't keep it all sombre, slow and sad. Instead you celebrate with friendliness, smiles, laughter and dance.
I like Rozi's idea. I'm just going to throw in a suggestion that you don't keep it all sombre, slow and sad. Instead you celebrate with friendliness, smiles, laughter and dance.
member
174 posts
Location: St. Paul, MN USA
174 posts
Location: St. Paul, MN USA
Posted:
I love Rozi's idea but I also agree with Dom in that it should be a celebation of life and unity. Something in which positive happy vibes should flow from at the end of the night. Good luck!
I love Rozi's idea but I also agree with Dom in that it should be a celebation of life and unity. Something in which positive happy vibes should flow from at the end of the night. Good luck!
Without further guilding the lily and with no more ado, I bid you farewell and sweet dreams...
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
All good ideas. The only negative that I remember about the NYC memorials is people interfereing with other people's manner of grieving. Everyone should be allowed to grieve whenever, however, and wherever they feel best as long as it doesn't interfere with others.
It was an amazing site to be at some of the larger gatherings in NYC last year. A large majority of us simply sat in silence. I remember that all I did FOR HOURS was to sit and make sure as many candles remained burning as possible. I trimmed the wicks, sheltered those that were getting blown. It was silly in a way but it was how I felt that I was showing my respect. People actually soon realized what I was doing and a few joined me for hours at a time. It was pretty touching.
The negatives that I referred to was when people took it upon themselves to dictate what the crowd was doing... "C'mon people! Let's all sing!" and even worse "Let's all sing religious specific songs so we can completely alienate a large portion of the audience"...
Most of this occured in distinct pockets of the park which was nice. So the singers COULD sing over there and those that wanted quiet could have it over here and those that needed to SCREAM about the politics of the whole thing (and there were quite a few) could do it way over there... if you get what I mean.
I would do everything possible to AVOID it turning into a party. Even though some people will want it to. "A celebration of our strong will and patriotism" sounds nice but not everyone, at least in NYC, is ready to celebrate.
As for me, I saved a little bit of the wax that I trimmed away from dying candles last year and made it into a candle. I guess I'll go back and light it and tend to all of the other candles for a while...
All good ideas. The only negative that I remember about the NYC memorials is people interfereing with other people's manner of grieving. Everyone should be allowed to grieve whenever, however, and wherever they feel best as long as it doesn't interfere with others.
It was an amazing site to be at some of the larger gatherings in NYC last year. A large majority of us simply sat in silence. I remember that all I did FOR HOURS was to sit and make sure as many candles remained burning as possible. I trimmed the wicks, sheltered those that were getting blown. It was silly in a way but it was how I felt that I was showing my respect. People actually soon realized what I was doing and a few joined me for hours at a time. It was pretty touching.
The negatives that I referred to was when people took it upon themselves to dictate what the crowd was doing... "C'mon people! Let's all sing!" and even worse "Let's all sing religious specific songs so we can completely alienate a large portion of the audience"...
Most of this occured in distinct pockets of the park which was nice. So the singers COULD sing over there and those that wanted quiet could have it over here and those that needed to SCREAM about the politics of the whole thing (and there were quite a few) could do it way over there... if you get what I mean.
I would do everything possible to AVOID it turning into a party. Even though some people will want it to. "A celebration of our strong will and patriotism" sounds nice but not everyone, at least in NYC, is ready to celebrate.
As for me, I saved a little bit of the wax that I trimmed away from dying candles last year and made it into a candle. I guess I'll go back and light it and tend to all of the other candles for a while...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I'm not sure what chemicals to use, but how about making your toys burn Red, White, and Blue?
Love the candles/moment of silence idea, NYC.
I'm not sure what chemicals to use, but how about making your toys burn Red, White, and Blue?
Love the candles/moment of silence idea, NYC.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
actually, NYC, you shed a deep light on some things i found difficult with people kinda close to me who were in Manhattan, and how they are feeling. i lived in Africa during some civil war, but though i heard it from others, in your expressions, i start to absorb the feelings of this event in the lives, and historical moment, of New Yorkers, and the fact that as Americans in this generation's time, the attack, the loss, and the effect on their lives and futures means something inevitably different from what it means to people i know living in the middle east, whose society is far along the path of incorporating these miseries as an on-going part of their normal existence. perhaps i shall pick up from you some forms of compassion which support New Yorkers much better.
actually, NYC, you shed a deep light on some things i found difficult with people kinda close to me who were in Manhattan, and how they are feeling. i lived in Africa during some civil war, but though i heard it from others, in your expressions, i start to absorb the feelings of this event in the lives, and historical moment, of New Yorkers, and the fact that as Americans in this generation's time, the attack, the loss, and the effect on their lives and futures means something inevitably different from what it means to people i know living in the middle east, whose society is far along the path of incorporating these miseries as an on-going part of their normal existence. perhaps i shall pick up from you some forms of compassion which support New Yorkers much better.
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
That's very considerate of you Mike.
I think, perhaps, the biggest difference between what I experienced as a downtown New Yorker and what the rest of the US experienced was the immidiate impact of the event on every aspect of day to day life.
I think what was most jarring, even remembering some of the early HoP posts, was that the country/world started talking politics and placing blame while those of us downtown were simply trying to find out if loved ones were alive and when we would be allowed back home. Everything that had been exactly the same for the last 28 years was eeriely different. The ALWAYS crowded streets were empty, I needed to show photo ID to go home as all of downtown was blockaded, the place where the hot dog guy always is was replaced by national guardsmen with very large guns, having no TV (the antenna were on the WTC), the air had that awful concrete smell for weeks, the vigils at parks where I always spin fire...
It seemed like everybody knew somebody who didn't make it down, or somebody who was supposed to be there but wasn't. I remember being pissed off that morning because there was tremendous traffic due to a car accident earlier. Later my dad and I realized how many people were late to work because of it and how many lives that strange coincidence had saved...
It sounds trivial but the strangest thing for me was parking in my neighborhood is next to impossible, sometimes it takes me over an hour to find parking. That whole week I was the only car on the block. My car, on an empty vacant street. It was a wierd sight. Almost as wierd as looking at the skyline down Broadway and seeing... nothing.
I don't think that New Yorkers felt that their country was attacked as much at they felt that their city was.
I still won't call it "Ground Zero". I hate that term. That's what the media and the tourists call it. I don't even fully understand what it means, but I still hate it. It's the World Trade Center site to me. And every time I look out my window, they will be missing.
That's very considerate of you Mike.
I think, perhaps, the biggest difference between what I experienced as a downtown New Yorker and what the rest of the US experienced was the immidiate impact of the event on every aspect of day to day life.
I think what was most jarring, even remembering some of the early HoP posts, was that the country/world started talking politics and placing blame while those of us downtown were simply trying to find out if loved ones were alive and when we would be allowed back home. Everything that had been exactly the same for the last 28 years was eeriely different. The ALWAYS crowded streets were empty, I needed to show photo ID to go home as all of downtown was blockaded, the place where the hot dog guy always is was replaced by national guardsmen with very large guns, having no TV (the antenna were on the WTC), the air had that awful concrete smell for weeks, the vigils at parks where I always spin fire...
It seemed like everybody knew somebody who didn't make it down, or somebody who was supposed to be there but wasn't. I remember being pissed off that morning because there was tremendous traffic due to a car accident earlier. Later my dad and I realized how many people were late to work because of it and how many lives that strange coincidence had saved...
It sounds trivial but the strangest thing for me was parking in my neighborhood is next to impossible, sometimes it takes me over an hour to find parking. That whole week I was the only car on the block. My car, on an empty vacant street. It was a wierd sight. Almost as wierd as looking at the skyline down Broadway and seeing... nothing.
I don't think that New Yorkers felt that their country was attacked as much at they felt that their city was.
I still won't call it "Ground Zero". I hate that term. That's what the media and the tourists call it. I don't even fully understand what it means, but I still hate it. It's the World Trade Center site to me. And every time I look out my window, they will be missing.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I'm not sure if this photo got out to the rest of the country but it is my definitive photo and the one that still makes my throat tight.
It's of NYFD crossing a deserted Brooklyn Bridge on the way to the Trade Center. Everyone on the truck was lost.
The local newspaper ran it as the front page and titled it The Last Run of Engine 205
I guess that's the kind of local images that hit most New Yorkers the hardest...
I'm not sure if this photo got out to the rest of the country but it is my definitive photo and the one that still makes my throat tight.
It's of NYFD crossing a deserted Brooklyn Bridge on the way to the Trade Center. Everyone on the truck was lost.
The local newspaper ran it as the front page and titled it The Last Run of Engine 205
I guess that's the kind of local images that hit most New Yorkers the hardest...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
It is interesting to see different people's different reactions, especially displaced new yorkers. I had a friend who is in San Fran now, but had been there less than a year when 9/11 happened.... he was upset of course, he'd lived in NYC since college (over ten years) and done a lot of lighting work in the city (ABC Studios, Nasdaq building, i don't remember many of them.)and all he could think was that he was a cop-out and a horrible person for not being there when the attack happened nothing has reallly convinced him otherwise but he's relaxed about it more now.
It seemed like everyone in my town and school knew people, but we didn't have the "living there" problem altho we did have our prerequistite "both of my parents work there" child... (both parents were fine !) I have to admit it makes me nervous now when i find out i have friends commuting to Manhatten...
I dunno where this is going except to say i can't imagine living in the city and i hope things go well for you guys as we come up on teh one year anniversery.
It is interesting to see different people's different reactions, especially displaced new yorkers. I had a friend who is in San Fran now, but had been there less than a year when 9/11 happened.... he was upset of course, he'd lived in NYC since college (over ten years) and done a lot of lighting work in the city (ABC Studios, Nasdaq building, i don't remember many of them.)and all he could think was that he was a cop-out and a horrible person for not being there when the attack happened nothing has reallly convinced him otherwise but he's relaxed about it more now.
It seemed like everyone in my town and school knew people, but we didn't have the "living there" problem altho we did have our prerequistite "both of my parents work there" child... (both parents were fine !) I have to admit it makes me nervous now when i find out i have friends commuting to Manhatten...
I dunno where this is going except to say i can't imagine living in the city and i hope things go well for you guys as we come up on teh one year anniversery.
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
look @my member
466 posts
Location: Ft worth Texas
466 posts
Location: Ft worth Texas
Posted:
awww man ya'lll almost made me cry,where is this event? want to be a part of it.
awww man ya'lll almost made me cry,where is this event? want to be a part of it.
There are no obstacles only challenges.
Very funny scotty now beam down my pants.
[colour."green"}What would willie do?
AHH theres too many wee leprechauns i cannae squash them all
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Mike as you know I will be gone and not able to attend, but I for one would feel honored if you would atleast burn one for all of us military folks who are over seas and away from their families and to also burn for those in the rear, they are what keep the front alive.
If you dont wish to burn one for the lost lives of Sep 11, burn in support of the guys and gals out trying to make a difference, you dont have to burn for the cause if you are against it, but burn for the people.
Mike as you know I will be gone and not able to attend, but I for one would feel honored if you would atleast burn one for all of us military folks who are over seas and away from their families and to also burn for those in the rear, they are what keep the front alive.
If you dont wish to burn one for the lost lives of Sep 11, burn in support of the guys and gals out trying to make a difference, you dont have to burn for the cause if you are against it, but burn for the people.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
vaperloc & Ray, of course we'll include you in spirit, and would be honored to burn candles exactly as you requested, Ray. it's good to appreciate our defenders, you who really risk your lives, regardless of politics, whose constant vigilance, duty, love, and willpower grant us a rare stability among democracies. the force be with you overseas, dude.
vaperloc & all you fine souls who have contributed to this thread, if you'd like us to mention you standing with us in this event, half-casual, part-ritual, which you have helped us craft, please go to this thread
thanx
[ 07 September 2002, 06:27: Message edited by: FireMike ]
vaperloc & Ray, of course we'll include you in spirit, and would be honored to burn candles exactly as you requested, Ray. it's good to appreciate our defenders, you who really risk your lives, regardless of politics, whose constant vigilance, duty, love, and willpower grant us a rare stability among democracies. the force be with you overseas, dude.
vaperloc & all you fine souls who have contributed to this thread, if you'd like us to mention you standing with us in this event, half-casual, part-ritual, which you have helped us craft, please go to this thread
thanx
[ 07 September 2002, 06:27: Message edited by: FireMike ]
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
Laguna dude
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
1,438 posts
Location: Laguna, California, US
Posted:
yo, Ray, lagging behind in news too, i just saw the headlines about the assassination attempt on Afghan Prime Minister Karzai. some peeps in Europe feel somehow our government has made UK Prime Minister Tony Blair a mouthpiece for us in foreign policy, and many Afghans feel Karzai is our government's puppet. this is in part true, we didn't even let the famous traditional "loya jurga" we said we'd support among Afghan elders run its natural course, and we pressured candidates out of the race beforehand.
but i gotta say, damn, US special forces certainly saved this duck's ass, and quickly enough, during the assasination attempt, though it is yet unclear whether the other 2 people they killed besides the definite assailant were proper hits. our diplomacy isn't always pure, but our armed forces do a pretty good job.
yo, Ray, lagging behind in news too, i just saw the headlines about the assassination attempt on Afghan Prime Minister Karzai. some peeps in Europe feel somehow our government has made UK Prime Minister Tony Blair a mouthpiece for us in foreign policy, and many Afghans feel Karzai is our government's puppet. this is in part true, we didn't even let the famous traditional "loya jurga" we said we'd support among Afghan elders run its natural course, and we pressured candidates out of the race beforehand.
but i gotta say, damn, US special forces certainly saved this duck's ass, and quickly enough, during the assasination attempt, though it is yet unclear whether the other 2 people they killed besides the definite assailant were proper hits. our diplomacy isn't always pure, but our armed forces do a pretty good job.
molten cheers,
~ FireMike
FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US
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