Forums > Social Chat > Fire or Technique?

Posted: 15th Aug 2002
well, I'm from reno, which is one of the main fire groups at burning man (new york, bay area, LA, seattle, and, wait this just cant be right, reno?) and yes ALL of them are obsessed with fire. most of our members who spin fire can do a three beat weave, reverse weave, corkscrew, and maybe a butterfly. most of the staffers can pass it behind their back, and in front of themselves.

now I cant say I'm any different. every wednesday night I spin alot of fire. more then most at my group (most just seem to smoke pot and think they're cool cause they play with fire). I set myself on fire alot, but of course it is purposeful. but there is one major difference between myself and them. I did perfect my technique well before I would spin fire, and still spend more time on new moves and such. I practiced for nine months before I lit up, compared to the average 2 weeks at the group.

so you're not alone. I don't get to many people who try to perfect their technique. even the people who have been spinning for years haven't had a new move or variation in quite some time. just bigger fire.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Posted: 15th Aug 2002
Fire has always held a deeply rooted place in the human psyche. I think that almost everyone has had a morbid fascination with fire at some point in their lives. As far as the Burning man crowd is concerned, well BM has gotten really big now and it attracts a lot of idiots and even more people who are there for the wrong reasons and completely miss the point. I read an article about the orginizers of BM sueing the company that makes those "Girls gone wild" videos for using BM footage. This mentality, unfortunately, has permeated much of the pliya. Many people go because of the naked people, many go for the drugs, and many go for the fire.

Fire obsession is really no diffirent than the people who are obsessed with say Britteny Spears, or Nsync. A lot of it really comes down to mild psychological disorders where in they are trying to fill a void in themselves with things that are external. It ends up, in essence, becoming a religion. Beware these people, they are the ones who distroy good artistic scenes. They steal it away from the people who built it and bastardize it and commercialize it and generally screw it up for everyone else by imposing little rules about how it should and shouldn't be. This is what killed punk rock, don't let it kill Burning Man too.

Jesus helps me trick people.

Posted: 15th Aug 2002
Ok, so I'm a bit off the original topic here, but i'm curious-

I'm considering going to burning man. However, it's a) expensive and b) time consuming. I'd be willing to go if I'd get the experience I want-- but I hear pretty mixed feedback.

I've never been before so I'm not sure what it is, but since I first heard of it a few years ago I always thought it was supposed to be a place where the general idiotic rules of society aren't a problem, e.g. nakedness is a normal and accepted form of attire.

Also I'd like to see some really amazing fire spinning- I've only ever seen 3 people spin (besides online videos and the like).

Basically, I'm asking- if i go to burning man, will I just find a bunch of assholish voyeuristic frat boys, or will I find interesting individuals with a flair for the absurd?

xi

xiI don't own shoes I can't run in.Thingy.

Posted: 15th Aug 2002
you shall find the most interesting individuals with more than just a flair for the absurd. its just a bunch of old school and new age hippies having a crazy good time. the harsh desert climate tends to keep all the frat boy types away from the event. there are still a few, but they are hating life so much after they get out there. you never have to deal with them anyway, cause they just sit at camp with their friends making fun of all of us having fun.

www.burningman.com for more info. check out the pictures gallery to see what the people are like.

and I wouldn't say fire as an obsession reflects filling a void in their lives. man has always been intrigued by fire. I am obsessed because of the adrenalin factor. I've always been an artist and an adrenaline junky. with fire spinning I can combine the two to make a truly wonderful passtime.

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Posted: 15th Aug 2002
What SickPuppy and Sodium said...

Everyone has a different reaction to spinning for spinning's sake, and fire itself.\

Some (an example would be Phoebe's brother off Friends - I'm sure he's based on someone the writers knew) just want to light anything they see.

Others love the noise and light and are happy doing a weave for hours on end.

Others are perfectionsist who concentrate on the moves and the fire is secondary.

And more and more options, and every possible combination of them.

I find the fire to be great fun, the noise and light and heat really get under my skin and I tend to do fire until the fuel is all gone. But staff prcaticing is also fun, in awhole different way, and I see in a completely different light...

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Posted: 16th Aug 2002
besides, burning man is a huge gathering to make art and burn stuff. how could you not assume they all would be obsessed with fire?

you can't have a war against terrorism because war IS terrorism.it's not about worshipping fire. its about making the fire want to worship you.

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
I started to spin coz I wanted to get someone attention, I carried on when I saw how poi girls moved (now I just dream about it), I continued to spin when I found fire, I now spin coz I'm getting good and I'll alwayz spin coz I LOVE YOU SPINNER PEEPS.......(all the ones I've met anyway)

Fire is fun, technique makes it all work....but friendship is more important than both.

PS - Many thanks again to BamBam for helping me turn a hobby into a lifestyle.

Small Lardy Person In Disguise

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
SmallBoy,

BamBam is lovely isn't she?

Okay, so basically what you're telling me is that I'm right. People in America, especially about the Burning Man scene are more into making fire dance than actually learning new skills and being good at what they do.

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
Interesting, but I don't think it's a US thing. Fire is cool. It looks cool and has a danger element to it. Some people are spinning fire for superficial reasons: adrenaline rush and because it makes them look cool to others. As much as I'd like to say you guys in North America are all superficial, I can't I've met plenty of these fire freaks over here, there were loads at Glastonbury. These are people who strive for the biggest flame because that gets the most attention. At this point please forget the fact that I have huge wicks

Fire seems to be worshiped less in the UK. Speak to people here and almost nobody will give you a line about spinning fire being spiritual or all powerful, but you tend to hear that more elsewhere. People here tend to spin fire for the extra buzz, and the look, sound and feel that fire has. It's just another spinning toy to use.

Most people learning to spin do so in small groups, and a lot of people are only just learning to spin. When you're starting it's all very new and exciting, and the desire is strong to push yourself. Spinning a lot of fire is one quick way of getting a buzz out of spinning. However, like most highs, the buzz wears off. You spin more to get more buzz.

When that buzz fades some people get bored and stop spinning. But for others the buzz is replaced with something more solid, something that lasts longer: satisfaction. After a good spinning session I'm happy because I feel I spun well, played with new ideas and had fun. That's the buzz I'm after. Audience response is nice, but not everything.

In London we have a really good spinning community. Some people have been spinning for years, many over 5 years. There really are some incredibly impressive spinners around! At Glastonbury I only saw a couple of people spinning anywhere like the old timers in London. So people new to the scene get that buzz, play with fire loads, but also get to see the potential of what's available further down the road, and that's inspiring. They may show off the weave really fast to their mates, but inside they're hoping to one day spin as beautifully as people like Dimitri, Michal and Drew.

Random thinkings. Long post, as usual! Sorry!

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
i started my growing up, Dom, in New England which still has a conservatism of tenor from old England, and bonfires are routine for many, especially when the leaves all fall as autumn sheds to winter.

when i burned a small stack of weeding, not even pruning or raking, in the backyard here in SoCal, my neighbor screamed and called the fire department. of course, people here are worried about fires during drought, which are now frequent, and this place right here is highly suburban. but ya see, they're not used to fire as an ordinary substance/ occurence/ something they do during life.

and what i like about California is that people like drama here more than in New England where i told Nyx of Connecticut coupla nights ago, i don't know at all whatever really ever gets anyone excited?

so the thrills, the satisfactions, of fine musculo-tendonous spinning grace, of fire as daring drama, of fire as friend, of fire as spirit, and several more aspects, no doubt... these are all different parts of what fire offers, and we each are a bundle of different parts from each other, which grasp these aspects of fire in different ways...

the kaleidoscope thrill...

molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
Yeah, I'd definitely agree that there's a lot of people everywhere that are just doing it for the thrill and attention of having fire..

There's also people like these two that I described in Toronto who feel they have a spiritual link with this kevlar/cotton wick soaked in keroscene. To me its just a cool sound and a nice effect.

But I wasn't referring to the people who just pick up a few moves. I was referring to people who are genuinely into the poi-oriented gatherings, teaching and expansion. To be into regular gatherings for twirling, but not actually be into learning new moves really confuses me.

For me, I really genuinely enjoy learning a new move, I enjoy hitting myself and getting frustrated and giving up only to try again in 10 minutes cause I just won't let that stupid move get me...

For me, creating a poi-oriented gathering is especially excellent because it acts as a knowledge pool, where people can contribute and take moves in and out of it. It makes everything grow, and it makes for an excellent social circle

Beyond that, I find watching people who're more fluid and smooth, like Dimitry or Glass, much much more than someone who is obviously not comfortable and is struggling with the moves. Someone who can do a high or low wave without falling in and out of split time.

But I guess what you're telling me Dom, is that in London, our scene's mentality is dominated by the oldskool, who are generally more about skill than fire. A few times I remember Drew rushing to play with poi in my backyard at a party, unable to wait for a spin, but he never even lit up.

The other major difference I keep seeing is the desire to be in the COL competition. Nobody has yet entered in London, and I know that this is because they have something against competitions for performance arts. I've had a few people here tell me that I HAVE to enter the competition, cause I'm the only one in Toronto that has a good chance of winning. Like its my patriotic duty towards Toronto or something.

Now though, after seeing Noona, PK and Kato on the COL3 video, I want you guys to enter just so I have a video to see you all spinning.. If a picture is worth a thousand words, and NTSC is 30 frames per second.. thats a lot of words!!

Yes, I do have a video of you spinning Dom, but I can't see anything but your flags!!! Its really hard to see that too!

The video of DFQ turned out okay, but just barely, and all my videos of Baerie Fen, Christian and BamBam didn't turn out at all!

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
Well, as a techie in the middle of a group of burners i guess i can see tha point to both sides.

i love to practice for hours on end, and altho lighting up with staff was wicked and if i had a firestaff of my own i might light up more, i really just like spinning for the sake of spinning. I often don't light up at gatherings, which seems to be looked upon as a bit weird, but eh, that's how i am.

I certainly don't begrudge people their chances to burn all the time though if that's what they want, i mean fire is amazing, and i certainly see teh intrigue. it's juts not why i got into spinning in the first place. it's an added bonus.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Posted: 16th Aug 2002
what about a competition free section of COL?

a section that just had footage from some members, so other people can get to see them?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....