Forums > Social Chat > Is it bad if you are not patriotic????
Login/Join to Participateveteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
Posted:
My rant of the month...
Although American by birth and by passport. I dont really know the place... Raised in Puerto Rico, moved to london five years ago... I also speak three languages which gives me a different perspective, if you are multi-lingual you understand why I say that...
Parents work for old uncle sam; I have worked for uncle sam! My father is ex-military and yes he did serve in a war: vietnam...
Yet I have no 'patriotic' feelings, besides having the belief that not only are Americans not free but neither is anyone else as long as some guy in a suit determines what I can and cant do, particularly with my own contiousness!!
A guy in a suit who also decides who my country will be 'friends' with, which country we will sanction and which one we will bomb/abuse!!!
I believe I was brain washed from birth mainly due to the workings of the country I was born in!
By who? Well to mention a few...
-My parents, who think Bush is smart! Who have also been brain washed according to my theory...
-Television: Did anyone notice all the pro-america, pro-military, pro-war movies on american TV right after Sept. 11th??? I mean dont you think the media affects you?
and finally...
-my primary school, much like many schools in America (it was run by Americans) where I had to sing the US anthem every morning AND afternoon, as well as hold my hand over my heart whilst saying the pledge of aliegance AND if that isnt enough I also had to sing 'America the beautiful'...
'freedom and liberty' ... yeah for the ignorant!
Now before all you americans go bashing on me, this is MY opinion. I am not saying I am right I am just expressing MY personal beliefs. I also lost people on sept 11th; I cried too! Not for the country, for the innocent lives taken!
So to get back to my point... or actually lack of
Am I a traitor if I dont believe in this whole 'patiotic' deal?
Does that make me bad, stupid, ignorant, or anything else?
Do other Americans dislike people like me?
Is it worse if I say that I would trade my passport for one of the EU, where I ultimately want to live?
Does anyone understand what it feels like to NOT have a country? To be a child of the world!
When I go to america I am obviously british and here I am obviously an american!
What to do what to do...
Will I ever get away from these stupid lables these pressumed states of mind?
WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST BE????? Is it so hard to just BE regardless of your place of birth?
I will keep searching for MY truth, not that which is attached to any particular country or belief... I just hope I am not judged for being who I am instead of who I am told to be!!!
Much love to all.. Drome
Dont worry I dont loose sleep over this
[ 10 July 2002, 10:38: Message edited by: dromepixie ]
My rant of the month...
Although American by birth and by passport. I dont really know the place... Raised in Puerto Rico, moved to london five years ago... I also speak three languages which gives me a different perspective, if you are multi-lingual you understand why I say that...
Parents work for old uncle sam; I have worked for uncle sam! My father is ex-military and yes he did serve in a war: vietnam...
Yet I have no 'patriotic' feelings, besides having the belief that not only are Americans not free but neither is anyone else as long as some guy in a suit determines what I can and cant do, particularly with my own contiousness!!
A guy in a suit who also decides who my country will be 'friends' with, which country we will sanction and which one we will bomb/abuse!!!
I believe I was brain washed from birth mainly due to the workings of the country I was born in!
By who? Well to mention a few...
-My parents, who think Bush is smart! Who have also been brain washed according to my theory...
-Television: Did anyone notice all the pro-america, pro-military, pro-war movies on american TV right after Sept. 11th??? I mean dont you think the media affects you?
and finally...
-my primary school, much like many schools in America (it was run by Americans) where I had to sing the US anthem every morning AND afternoon, as well as hold my hand over my heart whilst saying the pledge of aliegance AND if that isnt enough I also had to sing 'America the beautiful'...
'freedom and liberty' ... yeah for the ignorant!
Now before all you americans go bashing on me, this is MY opinion. I am not saying I am right I am just expressing MY personal beliefs. I also lost people on sept 11th; I cried too! Not for the country, for the innocent lives taken!
So to get back to my point... or actually lack of
Am I a traitor if I dont believe in this whole 'patiotic' deal?
Does that make me bad, stupid, ignorant, or anything else?
Do other Americans dislike people like me?
Is it worse if I say that I would trade my passport for one of the EU, where I ultimately want to live?
Does anyone understand what it feels like to NOT have a country? To be a child of the world!
When I go to america I am obviously british and here I am obviously an american!
What to do what to do...
Will I ever get away from these stupid lables these pressumed states of mind?
WHY CAN'T PEOPLE JUST BE????? Is it so hard to just BE regardless of your place of birth?
I will keep searching for MY truth, not that which is attached to any particular country or belief... I just hope I am not judged for being who I am instead of who I am told to be!!!
Much love to all.. Drome
Dont worry I dont loose sleep over this
[ 10 July 2002, 10:38: Message edited by: dromepixie ]
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
lightbug, I know what you mean. It's a great and good thing that a soldier will protect that woman, and there is risk in that path. I'm not a general soldier hater (although Ray will happily claim that I am).
However my point is Ray constantly harks on about how one day he'll happily sacrifice his life for that woman, when in reality it's unlikely to happen and in that situation he'd be in danger but still unlikely to be injured or die. There'd be a small squad of soldiers in the situation and that situation is rare. The presence of peace keeping soldiers in an area nearly always stops that situation before it happens; it wouldn't be a purely altruistic action; and military orders are to protect yourself and your comrades before others.
Really maybe I just want him to stop using that one, tired, flawed point in every political discussion he ever has. And if he keeps attacking other people he's going to get it back someday, and this is one of those days. And I'm busy but bored at work today, waiting for the company restructuring tomorrow!
lightbug, I know what you mean. It's a great and good thing that a soldier will protect that woman, and there is risk in that path. I'm not a general soldier hater (although Ray will happily claim that I am).
However my point is Ray constantly harks on about how one day he'll happily sacrifice his life for that woman, when in reality it's unlikely to happen and in that situation he'd be in danger but still unlikely to be injured or die. There'd be a small squad of soldiers in the situation and that situation is rare. The presence of peace keeping soldiers in an area nearly always stops that situation before it happens; it wouldn't be a purely altruistic action; and military orders are to protect yourself and your comrades before others.
Really maybe I just want him to stop using that one, tired, flawed point in every political discussion he ever has. And if he keeps attacking other people he's going to get it back someday, and this is one of those days. And I'm busy but bored at work today, waiting for the company restructuring tomorrow!
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
i would say that world has already tried everyman for himself in earlier times. we develope better when we are all working together. more cures for disease more technology, everything improves. just think, if every scientist doctor and engineer on the planet worked together. combine that with less spending on war and defense against other humans. i bet we would have colonies on mars. and yes society is a label but who cares. society is us. you me everyone. it doesnt matter if we are smart humans working together or dumb humans fighting eachother and living in anarchy. generations to come will still look back and call it society. either way.
ok ok ok!! whats my prize **lightbug rubs his hands together anxiously**
i would say that world has already tried everyman for himself in earlier times. we develope better when we are all working together. more cures for disease more technology, everything improves. just think, if every scientist doctor and engineer on the planet worked together. combine that with less spending on war and defense against other humans. i bet we would have colonies on mars. and yes society is a label but who cares. society is us. you me everyone. it doesnt matter if we are smart humans working together or dumb humans fighting eachother and living in anarchy. generations to come will still look back and call it society. either way.
ok ok ok!! whats my prize **lightbug rubs his hands together anxiously**
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Dom even you have alot of growing up to do, but was your first sentance a question or a statement?
Ohh and I am not constantly judged, am I an idividual directly responsible for the actions of those in governing postitions in my country?
I said what I understood what anarchy was, thank you for the correction, but remember man is greedy and you will never ever ever beable to make a friendly society based on everyone sharing everything. Communisim/Socialisim/Democracy are all excelent on paper but they dont perfectly, ohh well what really does??
Your right it would not be a smart thing to do, dieing for a native that was just being killed by another native, but then again Dom you dont think I am very smart anyway. It doesn't matter if its smart or not, only if its right.
Think of who you truly love, would it be usless to die for them? Even if they were just shot by someone else, it would not be useless. At least you tried to do something. At least I am willing to try.
You also right that my chances of seeing combat are slim, but tell that to the 4th logistics company out of Ft. Collins (sp) who came under enimy fire in the gulf war. They werent supposed to see combat either.
Ohh and Dom there is a big difference between the mentality of a soldier in the Army and a US Marine! You really really need to learn that.
Weather I am asked to sacrifice my life or given the oprotunity is a mute point aimed only to damage my ego. Sorry ole chump err chum didnt work, but atleast I am willing.
"sanctimonious" define this please.
So if you wanna resort to name calling... your a self-centerd self-serving brit with a stick up his ass.
Ohh and thats just my two cents.
I must admit though being called a red neck isnt an insult, frankly I am quite proud of it!!
Dom doesnt really have balls of steel just a large mouth and an easaly bruised ego.
Now there is something that Dom and others forget, it doesnt matter if I am in the military or not, I still would be willing to give the ultimate sacrifice.
Atleast your dad got a bit of metal the only thing my father got was poinsoning from working with JP 5 and what not for 15 years big deal. He still loves his country and his family. He would also do it again if given the chance.
My father was lucky enough not to be old enough for Nam and was to high ranking for the Air Force to send him to the Gulf, but I have talked to my Uncle and Grand Father who was WWII and Korea, my uncle in Vietnam. I remeber the screams from my Uncles nightmares. There is no glory in pulling your friends bodies from holes in the ground. I never said it was pretty I just said I was willing to go through it.
Why would anyone be willing to go through hell?
Simple so that future generations dont have to!
Dom even you have alot of growing up to do, but was your first sentance a question or a statement?
Ohh and I am not constantly judged, am I an idividual directly responsible for the actions of those in governing postitions in my country?
I said what I understood what anarchy was, thank you for the correction, but remember man is greedy and you will never ever ever beable to make a friendly society based on everyone sharing everything. Communisim/Socialisim/Democracy are all excelent on paper but they dont perfectly, ohh well what really does??
Your right it would not be a smart thing to do, dieing for a native that was just being killed by another native, but then again Dom you dont think I am very smart anyway. It doesn't matter if its smart or not, only if its right.
Think of who you truly love, would it be usless to die for them? Even if they were just shot by someone else, it would not be useless. At least you tried to do something. At least I am willing to try.
You also right that my chances of seeing combat are slim, but tell that to the 4th logistics company out of Ft. Collins (sp) who came under enimy fire in the gulf war. They werent supposed to see combat either.
Ohh and Dom there is a big difference between the mentality of a soldier in the Army and a US Marine! You really really need to learn that.
Weather I am asked to sacrifice my life or given the oprotunity is a mute point aimed only to damage my ego. Sorry ole chump err chum didnt work, but atleast I am willing.
"sanctimonious" define this please.
So if you wanna resort to name calling... your a self-centerd self-serving brit with a stick up his ass.
Ohh and thats just my two cents.
I must admit though being called a red neck isnt an insult, frankly I am quite proud of it!!
Dom doesnt really have balls of steel just a large mouth and an easaly bruised ego.
Now there is something that Dom and others forget, it doesnt matter if I am in the military or not, I still would be willing to give the ultimate sacrifice.
Atleast your dad got a bit of metal the only thing my father got was poinsoning from working with JP 5 and what not for 15 years big deal. He still loves his country and his family. He would also do it again if given the chance.
My father was lucky enough not to be old enough for Nam and was to high ranking for the Air Force to send him to the Gulf, but I have talked to my Uncle and Grand Father who was WWII and Korea, my uncle in Vietnam. I remeber the screams from my Uncles nightmares. There is no glory in pulling your friends bodies from holes in the ground. I never said it was pretty I just said I was willing to go through it.
Why would anyone be willing to go through hell?
Simple so that future generations dont have to!
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
true, but hes a marine. he lives his life to that code so thats his main arguement, its a huge part of who he is. i guess thats somthing you or i will never fully understand. i do commend his ideals whether or not he ever gets to prove himself. i personally hope he never has to. in regards to anarchy , dont you feel that we as humans are not yet responsible enough to implament that sort of governing or lack of i should say??
true, but hes a marine. he lives his life to that code so thats his main arguement, its a huge part of who he is. i guess thats somthing you or i will never fully understand. i do commend his ideals whether or not he ever gets to prove himself. i personally hope he never has to. in regards to anarchy , dont you feel that we as humans are not yet responsible enough to implament that sort of governing or lack of i should say??
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
member
46 posts
Location: Toronto
46 posts
Location: Toronto
Posted:
quote:I really hate this phrase, would it make a difference if the stranger was american? There are good people and bad people in every society (and we can't always tell which is which).
Your right it would not be a smart thing to do, dieing for a native that was just being killed by another native.
We are made to persist. That's how we find out who we are. - Tobias Wolff
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
ray:
"Now there is something that Dom and others forget, it doesnt matter if I am in the military or not, I still would be willing to give the ultimate sacrifice. "
i agree
ray:
"Now there is something that Dom and others forget, it doesnt matter if I am in the military or not, I still would be willing to give the ultimate sacrifice. "
i agree
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
veteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
Posted:
Sorry lighbug no prize...
Who ever said that anarchy meant that we didnt work together??? Go look it up! It desnt say that in my dictionary, besides I only mentioned anarchy to say that I didnt mention it!
Also... I refuse to be part of your so called 'society' cause I dont believe in it as you define it. I also dont believe that we are currently 'working together' because it just isnt true, there is no argument.
raymund
your ultimate sacrifice would be to shut up...
besides whatever you are in the military, any self respecting person in there (trust me I've been around all of 'em and then some ) would not be on this site. So WTF are you doing here if you are so sure of yourself and what you do? I mean you know you arent going to change any of our minds, so why bother?
If you say that they do it so that future generations dont have to then thats quite stupid if you are preaching this whole 'die for your brothers' shit...
I mean I guess your children would also be willing to give it all up so thats their peaceful life out the window! YOUR THEORY IS INHERENTLY FLAWED!!!
Oh about our parents who served in the wars...
The reason they would do it again is because it good to live life with no regrets.
They were brain washed just as you have been.
I've seen it a million times. They own you that is no lie. You shop at their bases, you buy the NEX products, and you voice their cause with such security in the 'all powerful' might of your stupid 'club'...
You will still be there in five years, hell make it 20 if you dont wake up and realise what they do to you your mind and the minds of those who look up to you. Havent you noticed that most people who join the military/civilian government field have parents that also served the government?
Please you two (Dom+Ray) take your hatred for each other somewhere else it wasnt why I started this discussion! I dont like this whole name calling thing and if you guys really have problems with each other, again, take it somewhere else!
Maybe you could start a DOM VS RAY topic. I'm sure it would be interesting!
Until next time when we meet to dance in a circle of fire, love to all, american, japanese, bangladeshi, saudi, brazilian, or just plain HUMAN...
Tchau, drome
Sorry lighbug no prize...
Who ever said that anarchy meant that we didnt work together??? Go look it up! It desnt say that in my dictionary, besides I only mentioned anarchy to say that I didnt mention it!
Also... I refuse to be part of your so called 'society' cause I dont believe in it as you define it. I also dont believe that we are currently 'working together' because it just isnt true, there is no argument.
raymund
your ultimate sacrifice would be to shut up...
besides whatever you are in the military, any self respecting person in there (trust me I've been around all of 'em and then some ) would not be on this site. So WTF are you doing here if you are so sure of yourself and what you do? I mean you know you arent going to change any of our minds, so why bother?
If you say that they do it so that future generations dont have to then thats quite stupid if you are preaching this whole 'die for your brothers' shit...
I mean I guess your children would also be willing to give it all up so thats their peaceful life out the window! YOUR THEORY IS INHERENTLY FLAWED!!!
Oh about our parents who served in the wars...
The reason they would do it again is because it good to live life with no regrets.
They were brain washed just as you have been.
I've seen it a million times. They own you that is no lie. You shop at their bases, you buy the NEX products, and you voice their cause with such security in the 'all powerful' might of your stupid 'club'...
You will still be there in five years, hell make it 20 if you dont wake up and realise what they do to you your mind and the minds of those who look up to you. Havent you noticed that most people who join the military/civilian government field have parents that also served the government?
Please you two (Dom+Ray) take your hatred for each other somewhere else it wasnt why I started this discussion! I dont like this whole name calling thing and if you guys really have problems with each other, again, take it somewhere else!
Maybe you could start a DOM VS RAY topic. I'm sure it would be interesting!
Until next time when we meet to dance in a circle of fire, love to all, american, japanese, bangladeshi, saudi, brazilian, or just plain HUMAN...
Tchau, drome
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
A calmer response than I'd expected. I'll tackle the points vaguely in order.
I never said I was fully matured. We, hopefully, all grow every day of our lives until we die.
The first statement was a rhetorical question.
You are judged, we all are, but you are very quick to judge, assume and condemn people, often from just one post. Not even I'm arrogant enough to do that.
The man is greedy is the same as the man is violent argument. Man has desires but maybe intelligence, self control and removal from a sick society where your worth is based on material wealth, possessions and power no on your spirit, maybe that can overcome greed. There's no perfect system, no perfect place, but I do know we're far from perfect now and we can get better so easily. Just because we can't have perfection doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards it.
You really want to know if I'd step in front of a bullet for somebody I love? Well, I would. That's self sacrifice. As a soldier in the metaphorical protection situation I'd put myself at risk to help somebody, but I wouldn't step in front of a bullet. My point is why be willing to wait and save someone once when today and tomorrow you can help them lead a better life in other ways. Maybe I'm seeing the solution to a long term problem while you see the short term problem.
Ray. You're in the service. You have to accept that to people who don't really care about the differentiation between services and ranks the army and Marines are interchangeable. I know there's a difference, but do I really have to list all the different services when I want to refer to military people? So I use generalisations, it's a fault to all of us but makes something easier.
I wasn't out to damage your ego because I'm not spiteful. Anyway, I think it's too trapped in an impenetrable casing.
"sanctimonious" - excessively or hypocritically pious
Name calling contest, right! Your evidence for me being self-centered and self-serving please! And what's with the Brit bit, ya Yank! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Moving swiftly on and upwards ....
I haven't got an easily bruised ego! My ego is very healthy, generally confident with itself and seems to be pretty well balanced with my superego and id. In all its very open to comments and feedback.
Peace.
A calmer response than I'd expected. I'll tackle the points vaguely in order.
I never said I was fully matured. We, hopefully, all grow every day of our lives until we die.
The first statement was a rhetorical question.
You are judged, we all are, but you are very quick to judge, assume and condemn people, often from just one post. Not even I'm arrogant enough to do that.
The man is greedy is the same as the man is violent argument. Man has desires but maybe intelligence, self control and removal from a sick society where your worth is based on material wealth, possessions and power no on your spirit, maybe that can overcome greed. There's no perfect system, no perfect place, but I do know we're far from perfect now and we can get better so easily. Just because we can't have perfection doesn't mean we shouldn't work towards it.
You really want to know if I'd step in front of a bullet for somebody I love? Well, I would. That's self sacrifice. As a soldier in the metaphorical protection situation I'd put myself at risk to help somebody, but I wouldn't step in front of a bullet. My point is why be willing to wait and save someone once when today and tomorrow you can help them lead a better life in other ways. Maybe I'm seeing the solution to a long term problem while you see the short term problem.
Ray. You're in the service. You have to accept that to people who don't really care about the differentiation between services and ranks the army and Marines are interchangeable. I know there's a difference, but do I really have to list all the different services when I want to refer to military people? So I use generalisations, it's a fault to all of us but makes something easier.
I wasn't out to damage your ego because I'm not spiteful. Anyway, I think it's too trapped in an impenetrable casing.
"sanctimonious" - excessively or hypocritically pious
Name calling contest, right! Your evidence for me being self-centered and self-serving please! And what's with the Brit bit, ya Yank! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Moving swiftly on and upwards ....
I haven't got an easily bruised ego! My ego is very healthy, generally confident with itself and seems to be pretty well balanced with my superego and id. In all its very open to comments and feedback.
quote:Unfortunately this is not true. For thousands of years there have been wars. WW1 was meant the be the war to end all wars, as was WW2. We keep on killing each other. One conflict often leads to further conflict decades down the line, creates racial tension, divides societies. Generation after generation has buried its war dead, suffered like those before them, gone through the same hell. War does not work. That hell still exists.
Why would anyone be willing to go through hell?
Simple so that future generations dont have to!
Peace.
BRONZE Member
old hand
887 posts
Location: san diego, USA
old hand
887 posts
Location: san diego, USA
Posted:
"whatever you are in the military, any self respecting person in there (trust me I've been around all of 'em and then some ) would not be on this site"
drome pixie: not quite sure if you meant it like that but the way i see it is that you are saying that i have no self respect because i am on this site. pleasee correct me if i am wrong...
"whatever you are in the military, any self respecting person in there (trust me I've been around all of 'em and then some ) would not be on this site"
drome pixie: not quite sure if you meant it like that but the way i see it is that you are saying that i have no self respect because i am on this site. pleasee correct me if i am wrong...
anyone got a light?
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
dromepixie, sorry to hijack the thread, but threads in this place never stay on topic.
dromepixie, sorry to hijack the thread, but threads in this place never stay on topic.
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
"I really hate this phrase, would it make a difference if the stranger was american? There are good people and bad people in every society (and we can't always tell which is which)."
i think ray was saying that it doesnt matter what race or nationallity they are.
just to be fair
"I really hate this phrase, would it make a difference if the stranger was american? There are good people and bad people in every society (and we can't always tell which is which)."
i think ray was saying that it doesnt matter what race or nationallity they are.
just to be fair
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
you can say that again dom
you can say that again dom
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
member
46 posts
Location: Toronto
46 posts
Location: Toronto
Posted:
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
Dr. Johnson
This is not a new question - here's an article from 1861
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
Dr. Johnson
This is not a new question - here's an article from 1861
We are made to persist. That's how we find out who we are. - Tobias Wolff
enthusiast
237 posts
237 posts
Posted:
Nice paradox Ray
Nice paradox Ray
quote:Right after telling us human natur won't ever change and that warring is inevitable.
Why would anyone be willing to go through hell?
Simple so that future generations dont have to!
veteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
Posted:
No prob Dom I just didnt want you to to go off at each other like that...
And I must say that you dont have a stick up your ass... If you do take it outta there and beat him with it!
lol
That was a joke!
pozee: it was meant for ray, and i didnt mean anything personal by it.. what I meant is that in my experience people in the 'military' would not be involved in a discussion group of this sort...
I mean after all we (well a few of us ) do drugs, they get piss tested...
We (those I have associated with here) are mainly looking for a 'free socitety while if you join the 'core' your ass is told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and whos ass to kiss.
Did I make that clear at all??? If not shout!
Much love, drome
No prob Dom I just didnt want you to to go off at each other like that...
And I must say that you dont have a stick up your ass... If you do take it outta there and beat him with it!
lol
That was a joke!
pozee: it was meant for ray, and i didnt mean anything personal by it.. what I meant is that in my experience people in the 'military' would not be involved in a discussion group of this sort...
I mean after all we (well a few of us ) do drugs, they get piss tested...
We (those I have associated with here) are mainly looking for a 'free socitety while if you join the 'core' your ass is told what to do, when to do it, how to do it, and whos ass to kiss.
Did I make that clear at all??? If not shout!
Much love, drome
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
your new to this site so why are you dictateing
who should and shouldnt be hear. your a lil to opinionated for a rational discusion. and i wasnt directing my anarchy comment to you, it was to dom.
i know anarchy doesnt mean everyman for himself directly.however thats exactly what it would become with no governing force.. survival of the fittest thats what it would come down to. in which case you would be in big trouble sissy boy.
[ 11 July 2002, 07:09: Message edited by: lightbug ]
your new to this site so why are you dictateing
who should and shouldnt be hear. your a lil to opinionated for a rational discusion. and i wasnt directing my anarchy comment to you, it was to dom.
i know anarchy doesnt mean everyman for himself directly.however thats exactly what it would become with no governing force.. survival of the fittest thats what it would come down to. in which case you would be in big trouble sissy boy.
[ 11 July 2002, 07:09: Message edited by: lightbug ]
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
BRONZE Member
old hand
887 posts
Location: san diego, USA
old hand
887 posts
Location: san diego, USA
Posted:
noone tells me whos ass to kiss drome pixie, but i do see your point from your point of view. from the outside looking in i can see that the military does represent many things that are hypocritical. and represents many things that you are completely against. everyone is entitled to their opinion. i myself do not know all the aspects of polotics and and government and do not pretend to.
to answer back to your original question about not having patriotism, no it is not wrong. as long as you dont think it is wrong. most of right and wrong is just based on popular opinion, OPINION right. so if you dont feel like you should be patriotic, then that is fine.
i myself went through about the same thing growing up all over in and our of DOD schools, saying the pledge of allegiance. and i can understand that sometimes being forced to do something leaves much resentment.
basically live your life the way you want to, your heart will tell you right form wrong...
p.s. not sure if you know or not but i am also in the marine corp, but i obviously have a different way of looking at hings than ray sometimes. dont get me wrong though, i do have a lot of the same beliefs as him as well. definately no harm done drome...
p.s.s. hey lightbug, where are you at in AZ? i am from tucson...
[ 11 July 2002, 07:38: Message edited by: pozee ]
noone tells me whos ass to kiss drome pixie, but i do see your point from your point of view. from the outside looking in i can see that the military does represent many things that are hypocritical. and represents many things that you are completely against. everyone is entitled to their opinion. i myself do not know all the aspects of polotics and and government and do not pretend to.
to answer back to your original question about not having patriotism, no it is not wrong. as long as you dont think it is wrong. most of right and wrong is just based on popular opinion, OPINION right. so if you dont feel like you should be patriotic, then that is fine.
i myself went through about the same thing growing up all over in and our of DOD schools, saying the pledge of allegiance. and i can understand that sometimes being forced to do something leaves much resentment.
basically live your life the way you want to, your heart will tell you right form wrong...
p.s. not sure if you know or not but i am also in the marine corp, but i obviously have a different way of looking at hings than ray sometimes. dont get me wrong though, i do have a lot of the same beliefs as him as well. definately no harm done drome...
p.s.s. hey lightbug, where are you at in AZ? i am from tucson...
[ 11 July 2002, 07:38: Message edited by: pozee ]
anyone got a light?
member
174 posts
Location: St. Paul, MN USA
174 posts
Location: St. Paul, MN USA
Posted:
Okay, it has taken me forever to read through this thread while at work. I find all of your points soooo interesting. I love discussing political/religious/and other such controversial shit. I have to admit, I don't fully understand why such things are thought (and so strongly, too!) I can see where each of you are coming from. But if one person is stating their opinion as (& this is very general) "do your own thing, fight for your own personal beliefs" and they are telling another person that taking a bullet for someone, whether it be a stranger or not, is wrong and wasteful, well isn't that a contradiction? If the person taking the bullet strongly believe's (setting aside all "brainwashing" and conspiracy theories) that what they are doing is right and just, then they are doing what the other person agrees.
Now, I'm just a simpleton who dropped out of ROTC because they chose a major for me that couldn't have been further from what I wanted to study (and I sucked really bad at it).
I hate typing discussions like this so if you can follow my logic, I'll give you a huge Cage-like hug!!
peace & luv,
the caged one
p.s.
thanks for all of the insightfullness! now i have something to think about tonight while i'm trying to fall asleep!
Okay, it has taken me forever to read through this thread while at work. I find all of your points soooo interesting. I love discussing political/religious/and other such controversial shit. I have to admit, I don't fully understand why such things are thought (and so strongly, too!) I can see where each of you are coming from. But if one person is stating their opinion as (& this is very general) "do your own thing, fight for your own personal beliefs" and they are telling another person that taking a bullet for someone, whether it be a stranger or not, is wrong and wasteful, well isn't that a contradiction? If the person taking the bullet strongly believe's (setting aside all "brainwashing" and conspiracy theories) that what they are doing is right and just, then they are doing what the other person agrees.
Now, I'm just a simpleton who dropped out of ROTC because they chose a major for me that couldn't have been further from what I wanted to study (and I sucked really bad at it).
I hate typing discussions like this so if you can follow my logic, I'll give you a huge Cage-like hug!!
peace & luv,
the caged one
p.s.
thanks for all of the insightfullness! now i have something to think about tonight while i'm trying to fall asleep!
Without further guilding the lily and with no more ado, I bid you farewell and sweet dreams...
enthusiast
385 posts
Location: NorCal
385 posts
Location: NorCal
Posted:
gotta go have a cry now
quote:This is interesting to think about and while i agree that this idea has a lot of theoretical appeal i think you're forgetting the very human need for vengence. When i stood watching the TV in shock on 9/11, ticking off the names in my head of the people i know (knew!) who work(ed) in various parts of the WTC and NYC, humanitarian efforts were the farthest thing from my mind. So as far as "winning the hearts of the citizens of the world", i doubt it. IMO the majority of this country would go into a massive revolt and demand action be taken, regardless. In this case, i think the government is on the same wavelength as the people...maybe not all the people, but the majority.
if the government truly upheld these high ideals then they would have won the hearts of all the citizens of the world by standing up and saying:
"We are the bigger man, even though you killed 5000 of our people and you celebrated in their death we still have compassion for your dire situation and instead of sending bombs to your country which will kill another few thousand of your people we will send food, medicines and people to help build infastructure including schools, hospitals and communication networks. We will fix up the problems in the country which allow terrorist groups to florish as the only form of leadership which the people can turn to."
gotta go have a cry now
"Dancing can reveal all the mystery that music conceals"
~Charles Baudelaire
BRONZE Member
old hand
887 posts
Location: san diego, USA
old hand
887 posts
Location: san diego, USA
Posted:
hey nyx, you can have my shoulder anytime. i feel ya on the pain lady...
hey nyx, you can have my shoulder anytime. i feel ya on the pain lady...
anyone got a light?
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
"besides whatever you are in the military, any self respecting person in there (trust me I've been around all of 'em and then some ) would not be on this site. "
That quote was by Dromepixie, I would be that there are a good many people that would take offence to that.
My children?? I dont know what my children would do, maybe I should have some first!!
Dormepixie, you have me confused with someone else, I dont shop at the NEX hell we dont even have one in name. I dont plan on being in anylonger than my first enlistment, just not in my cards. I have other things I wish to do with my life. And for you info what my life entailes for the future is none of your business.
Dom when you find that society please let me know I will move there and live next door to ya, hell I'll even mow your grass on saturdays!!
Ohh and yo mama was a snow blower
Well Dom with the different military thing... I dont call you Irish I could and that would probably be seen as disrespect full, you calling the Marine Corps the Army can be seen in my opinion the same thing, its a respect issue thats all.
Maladmin, you took what I said a bit out of context. Thats ok though you have been corrected.
Good point though BERERKER, but is there any thing wrong with trying? If its ok with you I will try any how.
I dont recall ever kissing anyones ass and by the way its CORPS just asking for a tiny bit of respect please.
I feel like your attacking me, but that is okay it happens alot. I was even on your side about your original question. I dont agree with you but you shouldnt feel bad about it.
Pozee is very diferent minded from me, he is laid back and has more experience. He is also an NCO and has more leadership position than I.
"besides whatever you are in the military, any self respecting person in there (trust me I've been around all of 'em and then some ) would not be on this site. "
That quote was by Dromepixie, I would be that there are a good many people that would take offence to that.
My children?? I dont know what my children would do, maybe I should have some first!!
Dormepixie, you have me confused with someone else, I dont shop at the NEX hell we dont even have one in name. I dont plan on being in anylonger than my first enlistment, just not in my cards. I have other things I wish to do with my life. And for you info what my life entailes for the future is none of your business.
Dom when you find that society please let me know I will move there and live next door to ya, hell I'll even mow your grass on saturdays!!
Ohh and yo mama was a snow blower
Well Dom with the different military thing... I dont call you Irish I could and that would probably be seen as disrespect full, you calling the Marine Corps the Army can be seen in my opinion the same thing, its a respect issue thats all.
Maladmin, you took what I said a bit out of context. Thats ok though you have been corrected.
Good point though BERERKER, but is there any thing wrong with trying? If its ok with you I will try any how.
I dont recall ever kissing anyones ass and by the way its CORPS just asking for a tiny bit of respect please.
I feel like your attacking me, but that is okay it happens alot. I was even on your side about your original question. I dont agree with you but you shouldnt feel bad about it.
Pozee is very diferent minded from me, he is laid back and has more experience. He is also an NCO and has more leadership position than I.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
veteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
Posted:
Ray
I never set out to attack anyone! So please dont take anything I say to heart unless you really need to for some reason or other.
light bug
I am not dictating it was a REAL question and I just never knew any Marines to 'play' with fire or participate in a discussion group with such ideas...
Sorry! Out of the 400 or so I have been personal friends with I never knew any of them to do much more than drink beer, listen to music, frown when I said I was underage, and now smile that I'm over age...
No offence intended in this last statement.
I do still have personal friends in the core (I called it that from the beginning and will continue to call it that way) who are 'serving' and will be for years to come.
Also please make it clear who you are directing your comment to as it might be misunderstood
Ok about the pretending to know thing, I do know and if I say any more than that I could get in a shite load of trouble for it so I'll just leave it at that... You signed the same declaration I did didnt ya?
I have never claimed to know the detailed inter-workings of every agency but I do know far more than the average (sp?) person and far more than your averadge marine.
Although I can see how it came off that way.
About the anarchy deal... Thats how YOU think it would become not the way it would happen, you dont know what would happen.
If you wanna gimme a derogatory name, make it bitch... 'sissy boy' makes me a different sex!
pozee
I never went to a DOD school, I was just around kids that went and still am if I choose to be.
Lets just say I have always been an outsider on the inside.
Um...
Cage; One of my points is that it is not nessecary and they are brain washed into thinking it is!
NYC, maybe the 'human need' has to be revaluated contiously by eahc and everyone of us in order to reach a better tomorrow. Do you agree?
Ray I'm sorry if I offended you, and I also know people who would get offended by that!
The children thing has to do with one of my theories that if we raise our children with peaceful ideals then we wont have as much hate/discrimination in the future. Is that a bad theory?
If its none of my business why did you tell me what you are doing...
I have a life of my own to worry about.... I just had my last day off work which is the reason I have followed this discussion closely... OK?
Ray said
'Good point though BERERKER, but is there any thing wrong with trying? If its ok with you I will try any how'
Is he dodging a bullet here? Cause before he said he would step in front of it... (full on attack)
Trust me if you met the Deffence Attache in the embassy here in London, for example, you WOULD kiss his ass cause I've seen it happen so many times... Ok, ok so you might not get ordered to do it but you would anyway any marine under a Master Gunery SGT (dont know the acronym for that one, sp?)would.
Anyways I probably wont be on until two days from now so I'll see you all laterz!
Much love, drome
Oh.. dom whens the next poi in the park? I dont have time to check right now... Thanks for the great event I had good fun on sunday!! See you in spittalfields, kensal rise?
Ray
I never set out to attack anyone! So please dont take anything I say to heart unless you really need to for some reason or other.
light bug
I am not dictating it was a REAL question and I just never knew any Marines to 'play' with fire or participate in a discussion group with such ideas...
Sorry! Out of the 400 or so I have been personal friends with I never knew any of them to do much more than drink beer, listen to music, frown when I said I was underage, and now smile that I'm over age...
No offence intended in this last statement.
I do still have personal friends in the core (I called it that from the beginning and will continue to call it that way) who are 'serving' and will be for years to come.
Also please make it clear who you are directing your comment to as it might be misunderstood
Ok about the pretending to know thing, I do know and if I say any more than that I could get in a shite load of trouble for it so I'll just leave it at that... You signed the same declaration I did didnt ya?
I have never claimed to know the detailed inter-workings of every agency but I do know far more than the average (sp?) person and far more than your averadge marine.
Although I can see how it came off that way.
About the anarchy deal... Thats how YOU think it would become not the way it would happen, you dont know what would happen.
If you wanna gimme a derogatory name, make it bitch... 'sissy boy' makes me a different sex!
pozee
I never went to a DOD school, I was just around kids that went and still am if I choose to be.
Lets just say I have always been an outsider on the inside.
Um...
Cage; One of my points is that it is not nessecary and they are brain washed into thinking it is!
NYC, maybe the 'human need' has to be revaluated contiously by eahc and everyone of us in order to reach a better tomorrow. Do you agree?
Ray I'm sorry if I offended you, and I also know people who would get offended by that!
The children thing has to do with one of my theories that if we raise our children with peaceful ideals then we wont have as much hate/discrimination in the future. Is that a bad theory?
If its none of my business why did you tell me what you are doing...
I have a life of my own to worry about.... I just had my last day off work which is the reason I have followed this discussion closely... OK?
Ray said
'Good point though BERERKER, but is there any thing wrong with trying? If its ok with you I will try any how'
Is he dodging a bullet here? Cause before he said he would step in front of it... (full on attack)
Trust me if you met the Deffence Attache in the embassy here in London, for example, you WOULD kiss his ass cause I've seen it happen so many times... Ok, ok so you might not get ordered to do it but you would anyway any marine under a Master Gunery SGT (dont know the acronym for that one, sp?)would.
Anyways I probably wont be on until two days from now so I'll see you all laterz!
Much love, drome
Oh.. dom whens the next poi in the park? I dont have time to check right now... Thanks for the great event I had good fun on sunday!! See you in spittalfields, kensal rise?
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
99.9% of this is directed to dromepixie, take from it what you will if you are other than.
Wow you lost me on some of that. How would I be dodging the bullet if I tried to make the world a place where people wouldnt have to fight. I think thats more like trying to catch the bullet with your teeth.
I have driven generals cars and people that can promote or demote me on the spot, I didnt kiss any ass then why should I now? I am not into politics, I dont play those games maybe thats why I am seen as rude. I say things how I see them.
I know several Master Gunns and I have yet to kiss their ass, frankly I dont like the ones I do know, but I'll follow the orders.
Your not the only one that knows things that if they said them would get arressted. I wont say any more than that.
If you have personal friends that are Marines, why dont you tell them how you spell Corps. It is obvious that you dont listen to me
Ohh and I am underage untill tonight at midnigt, I still dont drink that much and hadn't spun fire till I met Pozee! You do have alot to learn about the Corps, I dont care who you know!
[ 11 July 2002, 11:54: Message edited by: Raymund Phule ]
99.9% of this is directed to dromepixie, take from it what you will if you are other than.
Wow you lost me on some of that. How would I be dodging the bullet if I tried to make the world a place where people wouldnt have to fight. I think thats more like trying to catch the bullet with your teeth.
I have driven generals cars and people that can promote or demote me on the spot, I didnt kiss any ass then why should I now? I am not into politics, I dont play those games maybe thats why I am seen as rude. I say things how I see them.
I know several Master Gunns and I have yet to kiss their ass, frankly I dont like the ones I do know, but I'll follow the orders.
Your not the only one that knows things that if they said them would get arressted. I wont say any more than that.
If you have personal friends that are Marines, why dont you tell them how you spell Corps. It is obvious that you dont listen to me
Ohh and I am underage untill tonight at midnigt, I still dont drink that much and hadn't spun fire till I met Pozee! You do have alot to learn about the Corps, I dont care who you know!
[ 11 July 2002, 11:54: Message edited by: Raymund Phule ]
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
member
321 posts
Location: arizona
321 posts
Location: arizona
Posted:
HI pozee,
im in mesa
we are practically neighbors!!
are you going to starry nights this friday??
if so we will meet up.
gotta go right now im off.. yay!! but i will be back to antaganize all you anti americans tomorrow!!
peace
HI pozee,
im in mesa
we are practically neighbors!!
are you going to starry nights this friday??
if so we will meet up.
gotta go right now im off.. yay!! but i will be back to antaganize all you anti americans tomorrow!!
peace
drugs.. rock and roll. bad ass.. vegas hoes.. late night. booty calls.. shiny disco balls!!
veteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
Posted:
I know it wasnt two days...
Well I just quit my job today! So it means I am free to blabber further...
Ray,
I dont really see how you managed to missinterpret practically all of what I said.
Until you decide not to be (oh quoting Dom on this) a 'holier-than-thou' person I dont really see why I have to pay any form of close attention to you personal bullshit as you tend to shove in peoples faces in MOST disscussions on the site. I'm sorry I dont like to attack people directly like this but you are really annoying and you do behave as though you know someone although you just see text on a computer screen. Apparently that gives you the right to judge me for who I am. I judged you for who you are in the SYSTEM never said I was right and certainly dont want to go out of my way to find out.
by the way the reason why I said personal:
I dont give a shit about your stupid little club or the stupid respect that is still instilled in you in boot camp... So dont correct me cause I franckly dont care, I dont have that 'respect' you so passionately talk about. They are my friends because they are good people not because they are in the CORE.
Ciao ciao, drome
I know it wasnt two days...
Well I just quit my job today! So it means I am free to blabber further...
Ray,
I dont really see how you managed to missinterpret practically all of what I said.
Until you decide not to be (oh quoting Dom on this) a 'holier-than-thou' person I dont really see why I have to pay any form of close attention to you personal bullshit as you tend to shove in peoples faces in MOST disscussions on the site. I'm sorry I dont like to attack people directly like this but you are really annoying and you do behave as though you know someone although you just see text on a computer screen. Apparently that gives you the right to judge me for who I am. I judged you for who you are in the SYSTEM never said I was right and certainly dont want to go out of my way to find out.
by the way the reason why I said personal:
I dont give a shit about your stupid little club or the stupid respect that is still instilled in you in boot camp... So dont correct me cause I franckly dont care, I dont have that 'respect' you so passionately talk about. They are my friends because they are good people not because they are in the CORE.
Ciao ciao, drome
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
dromepixie, the great thing about this discussion bored is that you can easily choose to ignore a thread or people's posts. It's not an in-your-face discussion where you can't openly ignore people. Here you can.
When people start getting childish and petty most people tend switch off, or stoop to a lower level of communication. Ray's post to lightbug on the 'terrorism on the 4th' thread after lightbug's little tantrums is a really great post, basically blasting at people does you no good. Every now and again it happens, but if that's all you do your opinion is devalued.
Over the last 9 months or so a group of us (ok, mainly Ray and I) have had huge discussions on this board. It's great to talk and explore other people's opinions. I'm not interested in mud slinging and childish sqwarkings, I'm interested in exploring others' opinions. Ray's been really interesting to debate with at times, and bloody fustrating and annoying at other times The whole Antiwar thread evolved from small, petty comments to a massive debate of equals with really very strong opinions.
All quite enjoyable.
dromepixie, the great thing about this discussion bored is that you can easily choose to ignore a thread or people's posts. It's not an in-your-face discussion where you can't openly ignore people. Here you can.
When people start getting childish and petty most people tend switch off, or stoop to a lower level of communication. Ray's post to lightbug on the 'terrorism on the 4th' thread after lightbug's little tantrums is a really great post, basically blasting at people does you no good. Every now and again it happens, but if that's all you do your opinion is devalued.
Over the last 9 months or so a group of us (ok, mainly Ray and I) have had huge discussions on this board. It's great to talk and explore other people's opinions. I'm not interested in mud slinging and childish sqwarkings, I'm interested in exploring others' opinions. Ray's been really interesting to debate with at times, and bloody fustrating and annoying at other times The whole Antiwar thread evolved from small, petty comments to a massive debate of equals with really very strong opinions.
All quite enjoyable.
veteran
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
1,463 posts
Location: Florida
Posted:
No stress Dom!
I know I can ignore but I dont like to do that... I mean Ray does have valid points, ok so I dont agree but its good to keep myself in prespective so that my views dont get too extreme.
Ya know what I mean?
I just dont like being treated like a dumb child and I have noticed that it tends to happen. I just didnt want him to think that he knew who I was cause he doesnt and considering were so far appart I doubt he will anytime soon.
So dont worry: once again, I dont loose sleep overt his, ok sometimes maybe... lol
Happy Birthday Ray! Dont step in front of the bullet today, just dodge it...
Dont get too drunk, hammered, stoned, and by no means stay sober man!!
I'm sorry for being bitchy at times I have some hormone problems that make me quite the bitch during some parts of the month. Hey, at least my boyfriend gets most of the crap, you guys get left overs!! and I'm really not as opinionated as I seem lightbug! (was it light who said that?)
Love to all, drome
No stress Dom!
I know I can ignore but I dont like to do that... I mean Ray does have valid points, ok so I dont agree but its good to keep myself in prespective so that my views dont get too extreme.
Ya know what I mean?
I just dont like being treated like a dumb child and I have noticed that it tends to happen. I just didnt want him to think that he knew who I was cause he doesnt and considering were so far appart I doubt he will anytime soon.
So dont worry: once again, I dont loose sleep overt his, ok sometimes maybe... lol
Happy Birthday Ray! Dont step in front of the bullet today, just dodge it...
Dont get too drunk, hammered, stoned, and by no means stay sober man!!
I'm sorry for being bitchy at times I have some hormone problems that make me quite the bitch during some parts of the month. Hey, at least my boyfriend gets most of the crap, you guys get left overs!! and I'm really not as opinionated as I seem lightbug! (was it light who said that?)
Love to all, drome
JUGGLEwithyourmind!
member
189 posts
Location: nevernever land
189 posts
Location: nevernever land
Posted:
thank you
thank you
ask yourself this??.......... When was the last time you dug a hole you could be proud of???
answers on a post card
Enter a "Title" here:
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
2,905 posts
Location: San Diego California
Posted:
Dromepixie, why you apologysing?? Dont ever appologyse for what you believe in! For being rude and what not yes but for what you believe no.
Dom and I have a love hate realtionship, we love to hate eachother our geers and spears no longer effect us that much hehe. Dont worry about us
Dromepixie, why you apologysing?? Dont ever appologyse for what you believe in! For being rude and what not yes but for what you believe no.
Dom and I have a love hate realtionship, we love to hate eachother our geers and spears no longer effect us that much hehe. Dont worry about us
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
member
174 posts
Location: St. Paul, MN USA
174 posts
Location: St. Paul, MN USA
Posted:
Happy birfday Ray! I'll drink one for ya tonight!
Happy birfday Ray! I'll drink one for ya tonight!
Without further guilding the lily and with no more ado, I bid you farewell and sweet dreams...
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