Forums > Social Discussion > "Stolen Generation" of AUstralia finally receives PM apology
Login/Join to ParticipateStargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Stolen generation of Aboriginals in Australia
The wording
Way to go (finally)... keep up the good work, guys....
(disclaimer: pls make allowances to me, picking up the topic as a non-Australian. I hope it's alright with you.)
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202893057)
Stolen generation of Aboriginals in Australia
The wording
Written by: Wikipedia
Today we honour the Indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.
We reflect on their past mistreatment.
We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations - this blemished chapter in our nation's history.
The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia's history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.
We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.
We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.
For the pain, suffering and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.
To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.
And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.
For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.
We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.
A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.
A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement and economic opportunity.
A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.
A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility.
A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia
Way to go (finally)... keep up the good work, guys....
(disclaimer: pls make allowances to me, picking up the topic as a non-Australian. I hope it's alright with you.)
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1202893057)
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
SILVER Member
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Are we there yet?
1,897 posts
Location: australia
Posted:
whoa there - that's really offensive and borders on racism to stereotype a group of people like that
I don't think you are being fair to people who were abused by a system and seek to be compensated for pain, loss and suffering (which is what compensation for other 'victims' of crime, neglect and accidents does)
The australian way is a 'fair go for all' - aboriginal people were not given a fair go, and now seek to redress the balance
fair enough I'd say
and I agree with newgabes comment about stolen wages - compensation also seeks to redress the discrimination in wage payments, or lack of payment for labor contributed...
Written by: Rouge Dragon
I see that it's selfish because the money could be better used on the current aboriginal children. What are the adults going to spend it on? Single Malt Scotch, most likely. That they'll drink in their new clothes. On the veranda of their million-dollar home they can now afford.
whoa there - that's really offensive and borders on racism to stereotype a group of people like that
I don't think you are being fair to people who were abused by a system and seek to be compensated for pain, loss and suffering (which is what compensation for other 'victims' of crime, neglect and accidents does)
The australian way is a 'fair go for all' - aboriginal people were not given a fair go, and now seek to redress the balance
fair enough I'd say
and I agree with newgabes comment about stolen wages - compensation also seeks to redress the discrimination in wage payments, or lack of payment for labor contributed...
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
please see where i said i associate behaviour like that with money hungry people.
Money hungry people of ALL races.
please see where i said i associate behaviour like that with money hungry people.
Money hungry people of ALL races.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
well theres the pros and cons on litigation...
james hardy springs to mind.
well theres the pros and cons on litigation...
james hardy springs to mind.
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
thanx for clarification rougie
personally - i do agree in principle id rather see any $$$ go towards large scale project than towards individuals.
this is chiefly because not every aboriginal who faces severe disadvantages was part of the stolen generation. id rather see the living standard and opportunities increase for the entire aboriginally people as opposed to the fact that would benefit from individual litigation (no idea of actual figures or anything here - just vague idea as opposed to accurate knowlege of the proportion of aboriginals affected.
but how to administer/ control/ distribute such a thing? i dont really have any experience in such projects so can really suggest any applicable approaches.
how does funding work for existing projects within the community? what has worked? what hasnt? no idea really. im your typical white aussie working in the city with only vague ideals about what should be done - without any real practical suggestions.
E.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1203040108)
thanx for clarification rougie
personally - i do agree in principle id rather see any $$$ go towards large scale project than towards individuals.
this is chiefly because not every aboriginal who faces severe disadvantages was part of the stolen generation. id rather see the living standard and opportunities increase for the entire aboriginally people as opposed to the fact that would benefit from individual litigation (no idea of actual figures or anything here - just vague idea as opposed to accurate knowlege of the proportion of aboriginals affected.
but how to administer/ control/ distribute such a thing? i dont really have any experience in such projects so can really suggest any applicable approaches.
how does funding work for existing projects within the community? what has worked? what hasnt? no idea really. im your typical white aussie working in the city with only vague ideals about what should be done - without any real practical suggestions.
E.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1203040108)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
You're taking a difficult position, Rouge. Much respect to you for sharing it with us and elaborating.
Claims for compensation have been done before the apology and there has been a "stolen generation". The PM's apology is only to end denial of a nation towards the facts.
"Actions speak louder than words", "talk is cheap"... I put this in context and try to find out whether this is an honest apology, or only a fake. If it's honest, then nobody should have a problem in having actions follow these words.
I for my part found the Aboriginal culture so very much different from my background that at some stage I gave up to analyse and put in my (western) context (=understand through intellect), turning to just accepting it as it is and let it sink in (=understand through emotion).
So I can't come up with an appropriate answer, when asked "how to really help them". I only know that as a predominantly western culture, you might aim to find a way to fully integrate them. Great challenge.
You're taking a difficult position, Rouge. Much respect to you for sharing it with us and elaborating.
Claims for compensation have been done before the apology and there has been a "stolen generation". The PM's apology is only to end denial of a nation towards the facts.
"Actions speak louder than words", "talk is cheap"... I put this in context and try to find out whether this is an honest apology, or only a fake. If it's honest, then nobody should have a problem in having actions follow these words.
I for my part found the Aboriginal culture so very much different from my background that at some stage I gave up to analyse and put in my (western) context (=understand through intellect), turning to just accepting it as it is and let it sink in (=understand through emotion).
So I can't come up with an appropriate answer, when asked "how to really help them". I only know that as a predominantly western culture, you might aim to find a way to fully integrate them. Great challenge.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
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Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
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Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Thanks
Thanks
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Bolded by me. Because that's largely what I'm trying to say about the money hungry people.
Written by: not me
We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.
We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.
We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments.
We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats, firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.
We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.
We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.
We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.
We apologise for giving you interest free loans.
We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.
We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then handing them over to you so that you get all the money.
We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)
We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.
We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.
We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.
For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty. We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready.
Bolded by me. Because that's largely what I'm trying to say about the money hungry people.
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
is a medium/large scary man
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Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
is a medium/large scary man
420 posts
Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Milky Way...
Posted:
Here Here...
Here Here...
Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
quote: not Rouge
We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
- As one of the (if not THE) oldest steady civilisation on the planet, Aboriginal people were in desperate need of these "white man" technologies. [/irony] "FREE"?
better speaking "as a refund for robbed territories and natural resources". You're talking about "wildlife conservation" after almost eradicating them, right? Funny enough they seem to be resistant to our medicine and health care, as their life expectancy is lower and infant death rate is still higher than the whites'. Must be genetics.
We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.
- Aboriginal people were much in desperate need for European culture, replacing theirs. White man arrogance to consider themselves the height of evolution... [sigh] Put a white man (without technology) into the outback and come back a month later to collect his bones.
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.
- Yeah, nice one to build steady homes for ppl who were living as Nomads for ages... again: white mans arrogance to impose themselves on others.
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
- white man's law? Which helps him to rip off traditional land from them. Law and order? Like the one seen in the racial unrests in Australian metros? And certainly that civilized law and order that made it legal for the white men to rape, murder and genocide Aboriginal people. You're talking about the white mans law and order that helps him to invade other (sovereign) countries, the one that resulted in two world wars and millions of deaths, is leading to exponential destruction of the planet... is it this "law and order" you're talking about?
We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.
- Feed them today, after cutting them off their traditional paths and resources... great deal. Why on earth are they not satisfied? Ungrateful bunch.
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.
- Just because you dislike 'caveman style'. The only reason white ppl survive is because of white mans civilisaion and technology. Cut off the power supply and they are doomed.
We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.
- Thanks for asking whether they want it in the first place.
We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments.
We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats, firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.
- Great deal for human rights abuses. YAY
We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.
- please elaborate. The Aboriginals I met would have loved to go to Europe (like their white counterparts) and travel anywhere, anytime for free...
We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.
- you mean after killing that family member or after that family member has been detained to England?
We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.
- White man tactics: rip off their land and then rent it back to them or not - and demand gratefulness.
We apologise for giving you interest free loans.
- To buy back their own land?
Or to buy food, after destroying their primary food sources, or you mean for buying them booze?
We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.
- at the same time introducing cattle, rabbits, frogs and sugar cane which destroys their nature? And "digging it out" with toxic waste and irreversible destruction of the environment... great white mans values. [SIGH]
We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then handing them over to you so that you get all the money.
- Right, you're talking about renaming it into Ayers Rock, disregarding it's sacred nature and turn it into a Disneyland... or you're talking about the Gold mining taking place in a world heritage site and leaving behind Cyanide instead of gold... "getting all the money" that's your primary focus, innit? Did you put Uluru where it was? Did you plant a single tree in Kakadu? WTF are you talking about?
We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)
- Provide proof for this claim.
We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.
- Proof, but how much is spent on the welfare for white people at the same time?
We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.
- Is that on top of the 1.7 Billion above? Working hard by riding an oil leaking camper to Byron Bay Main Park, living on the dole, or working hard by exploiting foreign and Aboriginal labourers for fruit picking, or working hard by letting your cattle destroy ancient land, or working hard by selling their land to foreign companies for cotton farms (in a dry environment) or working hard by exporting their wood to Japan and reimport it as toothpicks, or working hard by digging out Uranium and Gold and Diamonds and whatever, leaving behind craters and devastation, or what?
We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.
- Don't apologise, prove the figures with respective links.
For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.
- Well, these "Uncle Toms" are the white mans' foothold in their communities. Without white Australias support, these ppl would not be able to fill their pockets and most likely get killed by their tribe sooner than later.
We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready.
- If at the same time you would put yourself on a ship back to mother England, or under whatever stone you or your ancestors crept from - maybe this would be a good solution. Because your attitude is contra-productive and only fuels the rapture that needs to get healed.
[/written in affection]
Rouge, no denial that there are money hungry ppl in every society. It's not a white mans invention. War is not a white mans invention.
The entire thing is not to prove that there is bad things happening in every culture. This is about proving that we are what we call "civilized" and "human". This is about living up to your own principles and ideals. This is about cleaning the mess on your own doorstep, before telling others to.
This is about doing your homework and settling your debts as a nation.
quote: not Rouge
We apologise for giving you free doctors and free medical care and medications, which allows you to survive and multiply so that you can demand apologies.
- As one of the (if not THE) oldest steady civilisation on the planet, Aboriginal people were in desperate need of these "white man" technologies. [/irony] "FREE"?
better speaking "as a refund for robbed territories and natural resources". You're talking about "wildlife conservation" after almost eradicating them, right? Funny enough they seem to be resistant to our medicine and health care, as their life expectancy is lower and infant death rate is still higher than the whites'. Must be genetics.We apologise for helping you to read and teaching you the English language and thus we opened up to you the entire European civilisation, thought and enterprise.
- Aboriginal people were much in desperate need for European culture, replacing theirs. White man arrogance to consider themselves the height of evolution... [sigh] Put a white man (without technology) into the outback and come back a month later to collect his bones.
We feel that we must apologise for building hundreds of homes for you, which you have vandalised and destroyed.
- Yeah, nice one to build steady homes for ppl who were living as Nomads for ages... again: white mans arrogance to impose themselves on others.
We apologise for giving you law and order which has helped prevent you from slaughtering one another and using the unfortunate for food purposes.
-
white man's law? Which helps him to rip off traditional land from them. Law and order? Like the one seen in the racial unrests in Australian metros? And certainly that civilized law and order that made it legal for the white men to rape, murder and genocide Aboriginal people. You're talking about the white mans law and order that helps him to invade other (sovereign) countries, the one that resulted in two world wars and millions of deaths, is leading to exponential destruction of the planet... is it this "law and order" you're talking about?We apologise for developing large farms and properties, which today feed you people, where before, you had the benefits of living off the land and starving during droughts.
- Feed them today, after cutting them off their traditional paths and resources... great deal. Why on earth are they not satisfied? Ungrateful bunch.
We apologise for providing you with warm clothing made of fabric to replace that animal skins you used before.
- Just because you dislike 'caveman style'. The only reason white ppl survive is because of white mans civilisaion and technology. Cut off the power supply and they are doomed.
We apologise for building roads and railway tracks between cities and building cars so that you no longer have to walk over harsh terrain.
- Thanks for asking whether they want it in the first place.
We apologise for paying off your vehicle when you fail to pay the installments.
We apologise for giving you free vehicles, petrol, boats, firearms, fishing gear and other non traditional methods that you now use to carry out your traditional ways of hunting.
- Great deal for human rights abuses. YAY
We apologise for giving you free travel anywhere, whenever.
-
please elaborate. The Aboriginals I met would have loved to go to Europe (like their white counterparts) and travel anywhere, anytime for free...We apologise for giving each and every member of your family $100.00 and free travel to attend an aboriginal funeral.
- you mean after killing that family member or after that family member has been detained to England?
We apologise for not charging you rent on any lands when white people have to pay.
- White man tactics: rip off their land and then rent it back to them or not - and demand gratefulness.
We apologise for giving you interest free loans.
- To buy back their own land?
Or to buy food, after destroying their primary food sources, or you mean for buying them booze?We apologise for developing oil wells and minerals, including gold and diamonds which you never used and had no idea of their value.
-
at the same time introducing cattle, rabbits, frogs and sugar cane which destroys their nature? And "digging it out" with toxic waste and irreversible destruction of the environment... great white mans values. [SIGH]We apologise for developing Ayers rock and Kakadu, and then handing them over to you so that you get all the money.
-
Right, you're talking about renaming it into Ayers Rock, disregarding it's sacred nature and turn it into a Disneyland... or you're talking about the Gold mining taking place in a world heritage site and leaving behind Cyanide instead of gold... "getting all the money" that's your primary focus, innit? Did you put Uluru where it was? Did you plant a single tree in Kakadu? WTF are you talking about?We apologise for allowing taxpayers money paid towards daughters wedding ($8,000.00 each daughter)
- Provide proof for this claim.
We apologise for giving you $1.7 billion per year for your people, which is $48,000.00 per aboriginal man, woman and child.
- Proof, but how much is spent on the welfare for white people at the same time?
We apologise for working hard to pay taxes that finance your welfare, medical care, education, etc to the tune of $1.2 billion each year.
- Is that on top of the 1.7 Billion above? Working hard by riding an oil leaking camper to Byron Bay Main Park, living on the dole, or working hard by exploiting foreign and Aboriginal labourers for fruit picking, or working hard by letting your cattle destroy ancient land, or working hard by selling their land to foreign companies for cotton farms (in a dry environment) or working hard by exporting their wood to Japan and reimport it as toothpicks, or working hard by digging out Uranium and Gold and Diamonds and whatever, leaving behind craters and devastation, or what?
We apologise for having to approach your taxpayer funded aboriginal affairs department to verify the above figures.
- Don't apologise, prove the figures with respective links.
For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.
- Well, these "Uncle Toms" are the white mans' foothold in their communities. Without white Australias support, these ppl would not be able to fill their pockets and most likely get killed by their tribe sooner than later.
We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready.
- If at the same time you would put yourself on a ship back to mother England, or under whatever stone you or your ancestors crept from - maybe this would be a good solution. Because your attitude is contra-productive and only fuels the rapture that needs to get healed.
[/written in affection]
Rouge, no denial that there are money hungry ppl in every society. It's not a white mans invention. War is not a white mans invention.
The entire thing is not to prove that there is bad things happening in every culture. This is about proving that we are what we call "civilized" and "human". This is about living up to your own principles and ideals. This is about cleaning the mess on your own doorstep, before telling others to.
This is about doing your homework and settling your debts as a nation.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
Saying that the uncle tom's are the white mans' foothold is almost as cynical as me mr tom! How can you be so sure that everyone who is ripping them off are white? is it not possible for aboriginals to rip off other aboriginals? whites rip of whites all the time!
It funny, cos I have that opinion too.
If you REALLY want to make a difference, go back to England and let the aborigines live how they always used to. Yet how many people who "really want to make a difference" actually do this?
Written by: FireTom
For the trouble you will have identifying the uncle toms in your own community who are getting richer and leaving some of you living in squalor and poverty.
- Well, these "Uncle Toms" are the white mans' foothold in their communities. Without white Australias support, these ppl would not be able to fill their pockets and most likely get killed by their tribe sooner than later.
Saying that the uncle tom's are the white mans' foothold is almost as cynical as me mr tom! How can you be so sure that everyone who is ripping them off are white? is it not possible for aboriginals to rip off other aboriginals? whites rip of whites all the time!
Written by: tom
We do apologise. We really do. We humbly beg your forgiveness for all the above sins. We are only too happy to take back all the above and return you to the paradise of the outback, whenever you are ready.
- If at the same time you would put yourself on a ship back to mother England, or under whatever stone you or your ancestors crept from - maybe this would be a good solution. Because your attitude is contra-productive and only fuels the rapture that needs to get healed.
It funny, cos I have that opinion too.
If you REALLY want to make a difference, go back to England and let the aborigines live how they always used to. Yet how many people who "really want to make a difference" actually do this?
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
well.... ones thing is for sure:
i think we've all established how terribly complex this issue is, and how there is no silver bullet to end all woes.
rougie - ive seen all that stuff in the 'not me' requote before. its the party line of pauline hanson.
I want to clearly state to rouge im not accusing you of supporting that repulsive woman. you are are lovely, compassionate, and huggable at any HoPper ive met - but just commenting where ive seen that chain email before. i understand the context of some of the points - but...
the concept that indigenous populations OWES something to their conquerers does not settle with me at all.
and complexity aside... we can all talk this way and that about who has done what for whom... and who has stolen what from what.
but for me i simplify it....its about compassion. full stop.
i see a broad section of the population with HUGE disadvantages and lack of opportunities to my white, university educated, city living, soft skinned buttocks plumped everyday into a comfy office chair. there ARE enticements, scholarships etc etc etc... all of which only seem to appeal to us whities who cant apply. so we seem to be having a compatibility issue somewhere...
and i want to help. I agree that the saying "build a bridge, and get over it" is somewhat applicable - but i do understand how strong emotional attachements in the minority groups situation are - especially when you are regularly discriminated against and stereotyped, even is this supposedly civilised age.
Aboriginals were recognised as citizens in 1969. in NSW, the homosexuality was only decriminalised in 1984. im acutely aware of how it feels to be part of a minority groups still actively discriminated against. hell i work in engineering - where i still meet a scary amount of guys who dont think women, gays, or blacks should be allowed in the workforce.
i can do the moral pro/con arguement - and its an impossible equation to solve as to who or what has the moral high ground. but it comes down to for me? who really needs help? amd how do we get it to them? f**k the money. theres more people who can benefit from my spare cash that the banks.
(aside) you know - most peoples politics go from the left to the right as they age.... mine have gone completely opposite....
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1203081660)
well.... ones thing is for sure:
i think we've all established how terribly complex this issue is, and how there is no silver bullet to end all woes.
rougie - ive seen all that stuff in the 'not me' requote before. its the party line of pauline hanson.
I want to clearly state to rouge im not accusing you of supporting that repulsive woman. you are are lovely, compassionate, and huggable at any HoPper ive met - but just commenting where ive seen that chain email before. i understand the context of some of the points - but...
the concept that indigenous populations OWES something to their conquerers does not settle with me at all.
and complexity aside... we can all talk this way and that about who has done what for whom... and who has stolen what from what.
but for me i simplify it....its about compassion. full stop.
i see a broad section of the population with HUGE disadvantages and lack of opportunities to my white, university educated, city living, soft skinned buttocks plumped everyday into a comfy office chair. there ARE enticements, scholarships etc etc etc... all of which only seem to appeal to us whities who cant apply. so we seem to be having a compatibility issue somewhere...
and i want to help. I agree that the saying "build a bridge, and get over it" is somewhat applicable - but i do understand how strong emotional attachements in the minority groups situation are - especially when you are regularly discriminated against and stereotyped, even is this supposedly civilised age.
Aboriginals were recognised as citizens in 1969. in NSW, the homosexuality was only decriminalised in 1984. im acutely aware of how it feels to be part of a minority groups still actively discriminated against. hell i work in engineering - where i still meet a scary amount of guys who dont think women, gays, or blacks should be allowed in the workforce.
i can do the moral pro/con arguement - and its an impossible equation to solve as to who or what has the moral high ground. but it comes down to for me? who really needs help? amd how do we get it to them? f**k the money. theres more people who can benefit from my spare cash that the banks.
(aside) you know - most peoples politics go from the left to the right as they age.... mine have gone completely opposite....
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1203081660)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
(*Sides Dentrassi in her opinion of Rouge*)
Didn't say that all rippers are white. Funny attitude is not a white problem only - as 'good', there are 'bad' people everywhere, across countries and races. After all the Aboriginal nations have been at war with each other like any other tribe on the planet.
I'm looking at Tootsie and Hutu looking at East Timor. It'*s within (human) nature. Also
I'm not falling for the stereotype of "bad white people" being the only reason for hardship of any kind on the planet.
But if the opportunity arises for a white community to sort out the atrocities committed by them or their ancestors, I reckon they should not let it pass, but take it.
The above is an opinion. As such it is valid and has it's justification. All I'm trying to point out is that there are two sides to the coin and the person who wrote this obviously has NOT looked at the other side.
It's only human to polish ones own image and blur out the weak spots. IMHO not the skilled approach.
Admit that your (great)(grand)parents did not have the necessary awareness, actively sort it out, look at the weak spots of your society and sort them out. Australia IMNSHO has the unique chance to come to terms. You're only 20something million people on an entire continent, you're one of the youngest nations on the planet. Your probloems by far are not as deep rooted as they are in Europe, Africa and the US...
Regard it as a chance rather than a curse.
(*Sides Dentrassi in her opinion of Rouge*)
Didn't say that all rippers are white. Funny attitude is not a white problem only - as 'good', there are 'bad' people everywhere, across countries and races. After all the Aboriginal nations have been at war with each other like any other tribe on the planet.
I'm looking at Tootsie and Hutu looking at East Timor. It'*s within (human) nature. Also
I'm not falling for the stereotype of "bad white people" being the only reason for hardship of any kind on the planet.
But if the opportunity arises for a white community to sort out the atrocities committed by them or their ancestors, I reckon they should not let it pass, but take it.
The above is an opinion. As such it is valid and has it's justification. All I'm trying to point out is that there are two sides to the coin and the person who wrote this obviously has NOT looked at the other side.
It's only human to polish ones own image and blur out the weak spots. IMHO not the skilled approach.
Admit that your (great)(grand)parents did not have the necessary awareness, actively sort it out, look at the weak spots of your society and sort them out. Australia IMNSHO has the unique chance to come to terms. You're only 20something million people on an entire continent, you're one of the youngest nations on the planet. Your probloems by far are not as deep rooted as they are in Europe, Africa and the US...
Regard it as a chance rather than a curse.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
newbie
8 posts
8 posts
Posted:
Re: apology. About damned time. Absurd that it took the US so long too.
Re: compensation. How about taxing out some of the old companies that have profited hugely by the exploitation of stolen land/resources, and using the $$ to buy back a few brazillion acres to hand over the the tribes? Instead of dunning everyone an even amount, dun primarily those who actually got something substantial out of the shafting the indigenous peoples.
'Swhat the US should do too, imo.
That our predecessors behaved very badly towards the people they found when they expanded overseas does not mean that we today should be vilified for said bad behaviour.
That we today did not enact said bad behaviour does not mean that we should ignore it's effects.
As for the Pauline Hanson (or whoemever) "apology", a sarcastic "I'm sorry for giving you a nickel after stealing your dollar" routine is kind of insulting. Teaching indigenous peoples to read and write is great, i'm all in favor of everyone being able to do so.
Outlawing their own language and culture in favor of English ways, on the other hand, pretty much negates the good that is done by adding new knowledge.
And for the record, i am, ethnically, a mix of oppressor and oppressed: Cherokee (US indigenous), Irish (displaced to US by draconian English policy), German (great aunt married an SS officer), English (see draconian above), and supposedly Romany (got the shaft everywhere they went). I don't know whether i have ancestors who were slaveholders, but at least one branch of my family has been in the US long enough that it's possible.
I can't hate someone based on the behaviour of their ancestors, i'd fly into pieces. *laughing*
Re: apology. About damned time. Absurd that it took the US so long too.
Re: compensation. How about taxing out some of the old companies that have profited hugely by the exploitation of stolen land/resources, and using the $$ to buy back a few brazillion acres to hand over the the tribes? Instead of dunning everyone an even amount, dun primarily those who actually got something substantial out of the shafting the indigenous peoples.
'Swhat the US should do too, imo.
That our predecessors behaved very badly towards the people they found when they expanded overseas does not mean that we today should be vilified for said bad behaviour.
That we today did not enact said bad behaviour does not mean that we should ignore it's effects.
As for the Pauline Hanson (or whoemever) "apology", a sarcastic "I'm sorry for giving you a nickel after stealing your dollar" routine is kind of insulting. Teaching indigenous peoples to read and write is great, i'm all in favor of everyone being able to do so.
Outlawing their own language and culture in favor of English ways, on the other hand, pretty much negates the good that is done by adding new knowledge.
And for the record, i am, ethnically, a mix of oppressor and oppressed: Cherokee (US indigenous), Irish (displaced to US by draconian English policy), German (great aunt married an SS officer), English (see draconian above), and supposedly Romany (got the shaft everywhere they went). I don't know whether i have ancestors who were slaveholders, but at least one branch of my family has been in the US long enough that it's possible.
I can't hate someone based on the behaviour of their ancestors, i'd fly into pieces. *laughing*
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
hear hear
hear hear
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
article today i thought was relevant:
---------------------
link: https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/its-not-safe/2008/03/13/1205126112217.html
Aurukun elders plea for removal of kids
John Van Tiggelen | March 14, 2008
ELDERS from a far north Queensland community are calling for the removal of children in the face of a comprehensive breakdown of social standards.
Several members of Aurukun's community justice group, led by Martha Koowarta, widow of a local land rights hero, are urging outsiders to take children from age nine for their safety and education.
Justice, education and child safety standards in Aurukun, Cape York, have collapsed. Last financial year, 763 defendants — including repeat offenders — from the township of 1000, faced court.
"We need to get the children out of here, especially the girls, because it is not safe," Ms Koowarta said. "Closing the school (in favour of boarding schools) is a good idea, so that when they come back from the city, they can talk and read English as well as Wik Mungkan.
"I was put in a mission dormitory when I was eight, nine. I cried for two nights, then I was right with the rest of those kids. We weren't stolen; our family was there. It was a good system. Or a better system than now. At least my generation learnt to read and write properly."
Jonathon Korkaktain, an Aurukun shire councillor, said his community had been abandoned "to run itself into a hole". Mr Korkaktain would like to see all Aurukun children, except those with special needs, educated in outside schools from the age of nine so they learned to have "one foot in both worlds".
Elders say life in Aurukun has deteriorated so much that many see jail as an escape. Recidivism rates for teenage boys run at 90%, some having served up to eight terms for offences ranging from stealing cars to assault by the age of 15. Nearly a tenth of the community's adults and teenagers are either on parole, a suspended sentence or community service orders. Another tenth is revolving through jail or juvenile detention.
One in three children are not enrolled at the school. Nine in 10 children do not turn up on a Friday, regarded by most parents as a holiday set aside for gambling the week's welfare payments.
Aurukun was the focus of nationwide outrage last year when a judge declined to send three men and six boys to jail for the statutory rape of a 10-year- old girl because she "probably" agreed to sex. The sentences are under appeal.
Former teacher at Arukun, Paula Shaw, said: "These were kids who, if you added up all the days they'd been in school, they'd have one, two, maybe three years of school behind them."
There have been two alcohol-fuelled riots this year, involving 50 people or more armed with iron bars, knives and hammers. The past week has seen an influx of sly grog by sea, a stabbing, nightly assaults and the near-sacking of the chief executive officer for his efforts to apply administrative standards to council business.
Aurukun is one of four Cape York pilot communities taking part in Noel Pearson's Cape York Institute's welfare reform project.
From July 1, parents who neglect, abuse or fail to send their children to school can be censured, sent to support services, and have their welfare income quarantined for rent and food.
-----------------------
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1205469040)
article today i thought was relevant:
---------------------
link: https://www.smh.com.au/news/national/its-not-safe/2008/03/13/1205126112217.html
Aurukun elders plea for removal of kids
John Van Tiggelen | March 14, 2008
ELDERS from a far north Queensland community are calling for the removal of children in the face of a comprehensive breakdown of social standards.
Several members of Aurukun's community justice group, led by Martha Koowarta, widow of a local land rights hero, are urging outsiders to take children from age nine for their safety and education.
Justice, education and child safety standards in Aurukun, Cape York, have collapsed. Last financial year, 763 defendants — including repeat offenders — from the township of 1000, faced court.
"We need to get the children out of here, especially the girls, because it is not safe," Ms Koowarta said. "Closing the school (in favour of boarding schools) is a good idea, so that when they come back from the city, they can talk and read English as well as Wik Mungkan.
"I was put in a mission dormitory when I was eight, nine. I cried for two nights, then I was right with the rest of those kids. We weren't stolen; our family was there. It was a good system. Or a better system than now. At least my generation learnt to read and write properly."
Jonathon Korkaktain, an Aurukun shire councillor, said his community had been abandoned "to run itself into a hole". Mr Korkaktain would like to see all Aurukun children, except those with special needs, educated in outside schools from the age of nine so they learned to have "one foot in both worlds".
Elders say life in Aurukun has deteriorated so much that many see jail as an escape. Recidivism rates for teenage boys run at 90%, some having served up to eight terms for offences ranging from stealing cars to assault by the age of 15. Nearly a tenth of the community's adults and teenagers are either on parole, a suspended sentence or community service orders. Another tenth is revolving through jail or juvenile detention.
One in three children are not enrolled at the school. Nine in 10 children do not turn up on a Friday, regarded by most parents as a holiday set aside for gambling the week's welfare payments.
Aurukun was the focus of nationwide outrage last year when a judge declined to send three men and six boys to jail for the statutory rape of a 10-year- old girl because she "probably" agreed to sex. The sentences are under appeal.
Former teacher at Arukun, Paula Shaw, said: "These were kids who, if you added up all the days they'd been in school, they'd have one, two, maybe three years of school behind them."
There have been two alcohol-fuelled riots this year, involving 50 people or more armed with iron bars, knives and hammers. The past week has seen an influx of sly grog by sea, a stabbing, nightly assaults and the near-sacking of the chief executive officer for his efforts to apply administrative standards to council business.
Aurukun is one of four Cape York pilot communities taking part in Noel Pearson's Cape York Institute's welfare reform project.
From July 1, parents who neglect, abuse or fail to send their children to school can be censured, sent to support services, and have their welfare income quarantined for rent and food.
-----------------------
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1205469040)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Crazy stuff. I hope it can be made to happen to save these kids.
Crazy stuff. I hope it can be made to happen to save these kids.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
where did the article come from Dentrassi?
pretty inflamatory considering the posters on this thread!
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1205453414)
where did the article come from Dentrassi?
pretty inflamatory considering the posters on this thread!
EDITED_BY: Pyrolific (1205453414)
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Sweet talented nutter
2,615 posts
Location: Brisbane Oz, Australia
Posted:
Im sorry .
Thats right im sorry for going to work .
That's all .
Think about it ?.
Im sorry .
Thats right im sorry for going to work .
That's all .
Think about it ?.
that shrewd and knavish sprite
Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy
I am the merry wander of the night -puk
GOLD Member
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
ZORT!
3,045 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Post updated with link to reference.
inflammatory? smeh! if the anyone on here is too delicate to handle a news article they disagree with on the internet they should flitter back to the chat section with their fragile egos.
peace out.
D.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1205469537)
Written by :Pyrolific
where did the article come from Dentrassi?
pretty inflamatory considering the posters on this thread!
Post updated with link to reference.
inflammatory? smeh! if the anyone on here is too delicate to handle a news article they disagree with on the internet they should flitter back to the chat section with their fragile egos.
peace out.
D.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1205469537)
"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
John van Tiggelen, Sydney Morning Herald, Fairfax
This article seems to have a bit more information:
Educator wants Aurukun children removed
1:36p.m. 14 March 2008
An Aboriginal educator has backed calls for children in the troubled far north Queensland indigenous community of Aurukun to be sent away for a better education.
Former Queenslander of the Year and Indigenous Education Leadership Institute executive director Chris Sarra said it should only be for secondary education and care must be taken not to turn black children into white children.
Mr Sarra said the calls were worthwhile discussing and busted the myth that Aboriginal parents did not value education. But he said only secondary school students should be educated outside of Aurukun.
"It's a view that I share in the context of secondary school for children in Aurukun," Dr Sarra told ABC Radio.
Dr Sarra denied sending children away from their communities would produce another "stolen generation" of Aboriginal children.”
"What's significant here is that Aboriginal people are engaging in the dialogue and wanting to have a say in how things are done," he said.
He suggested children could be transported out of Aurukun on Monday mornings to the Weipa college, where they would board for a week, before returning home on Friday afternoons.
"I think like a lot of communities they have simply have been left to rot and we've let the standards slip, and that's been reflected in a lot of places," Dr Sarra said.
"Because it's been a black community out in the middle of nowhere, it's been okay not to worry about providing quality education (and) quality justice to those kinds of places."
EDITED_BY: Stone (1205470326)
John van Tiggelen, Sydney Morning Herald, Fairfax
This article seems to have a bit more information:
Educator wants Aurukun children removed
1:36p.m. 14 March 2008
An Aboriginal educator has backed calls for children in the troubled far north Queensland indigenous community of Aurukun to be sent away for a better education.
Former Queenslander of the Year and Indigenous Education Leadership Institute executive director Chris Sarra said it should only be for secondary education and care must be taken not to turn black children into white children.
Mr Sarra said the calls were worthwhile discussing and busted the myth that Aboriginal parents did not value education. But he said only secondary school students should be educated outside of Aurukun.
"It's a view that I share in the context of secondary school for children in Aurukun," Dr Sarra told ABC Radio.
Dr Sarra denied sending children away from their communities would produce another "stolen generation" of Aboriginal children.”
"What's significant here is that Aboriginal people are engaging in the dialogue and wanting to have a say in how things are done," he said.
He suggested children could be transported out of Aurukun on Monday mornings to the Weipa college, where they would board for a week, before returning home on Friday afternoons.
"I think like a lot of communities they have simply have been left to rot and we've let the standards slip, and that's been reflected in a lot of places," Dr Sarra said.
"Because it's been a black community out in the middle of nowhere, it's been okay not to worry about providing quality education (and) quality justice to those kinds of places."
EDITED_BY: Stone (1205470326)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Living black (SBS) had a similar article where the older women especially are calling for external living for the children while the family is reeducated so when the kids go back there is a change rather than falling back into old habits.
Im not convinced it should just be remote families. Teacher friends describe the home life of some kids and its heartbreaking.
Living black (SBS) had a similar article where the older women especially are calling for external living for the children while the family is reeducated so when the kids go back there is a change rather than falling back into old habits.
Im not convinced it should just be remote families. Teacher friends describe the home life of some kids and its heartbreaking.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
what is sly grog by sea? cos all i can think of is monkey island pirates
Written by :Dentrassi
The past week has seen an influx of sly grog by sea,
what is sly grog by sea? cos all i can think of is monkey island pirates
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
booze (grog) smuggled (sly) by sea (boats etc)
Ya Aurukun is a classic example of one of the former 'reserves' and missions where population was decimated, aggregated, farmed out as unpaid (pennies, tea and tobacco) labour and then left to rot. Its a mean place. North Qld reserves and missions were somewhere lower than South Africa when it came to race relations. Now the remnants of that system (and it was a system, controlled for 100 or so years by Qld Govt, who still haven;t made a settlement about stolen wages) make one of the worst places anywhere you'd want to live.
I'm sorry for that (as in compassion and connection as humans, not as mea culpa). And know perfectly well these people are nothing like angels. This is not about noble savage, this is about hell for kids and women and not a lot of fun for a lot of the blokes either.
booze (grog) smuggled (sly) by sea (boats etc)
Ya Aurukun is a classic example of one of the former 'reserves' and missions where population was decimated, aggregated, farmed out as unpaid (pennies, tea and tobacco) labour and then left to rot. Its a mean place. North Qld reserves and missions were somewhere lower than South Africa when it came to race relations. Now the remnants of that system (and it was a system, controlled for 100 or so years by Qld Govt, who still haven;t made a settlement about stolen wages) make one of the worst places anywhere you'd want to live.
I'm sorry for that (as in compassion and connection as humans, not as mea culpa). And know perfectly well these people are nothing like angels. This is not about noble savage, this is about hell for kids and women and not a lot of fun for a lot of the blokes either.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
BRONZE Member
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
compfuzzled
1,182 posts
Location: hastings, England (UK)
Posted:
so the image of pirates from the monkey island games wasnt a million miles away then
seriously tho, it does seem such a difficult situation
Written by :newgabe
booze (grog) smuggled (sly) by sea (boats etc)
so the image of pirates from the monkey island games wasnt a million miles away then
seriously tho, it does seem such a difficult situation
"the geeks have got you" - Gayle
HoP resident longboarder.
195 posts
Location: Tasmania, Australia
195 posts
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posted:
...booze? pirates? sly?
sounds like my last three year away from hop.
hi all again, by the way- i'm back.
...booze? pirates? sly?
sounds like my last three year away from hop.
hi all again, by the way- i'm back.
"surely a longboarding fire spinner should have no trouble getting some action!"- NYC....
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