Forums > Social Discussion > Existance.... Necessary? or a choice?
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Hey there humans... enjoying '08?
IN ADVANCE i'd like to apologise for the length of this, i hope you guys can bother getting through it all.
lately i've been pondering on something you've probably all gone over once or twice before, that is the need for existance. i know that the topic is impossible to resolve (so far in our advancement), so i shall put forth my reasoning, and hope you all have some constructive input.
i understand the process of how we got here (or the basics as explained by todays science)(i hope we all agree on the big bang theory), but i am puzzled as to our purpose.
my most sensible conclusion is that life is utterly random (there was no concious decision for things to occur), and chance (things really just kinda fell into place through time and energy), so really our only purpose is to make things comfortable for ourselves until the universe tears itself apart.
i believe that life is unecessary (at very least to the individual), so i dont really take life all that seriously, im more or less here for personal enjoyment.
thats where the choice falls into play, because with my applied logic (although possibly amazingly flawed), i can only see an instinctual/atomic drive to survive... even for those microscopic single celled oganisms that grew into us in the first place.
ALTHOUGH, my question towards my above statements would be; "then why would there be the capacity to exist if there was no point in existance"? i guess you guys could maybe help me out on that too.
maybe i will make no sense to anyone, but hopefully you guys will figure out what im trying to say and respond. good luck
p.s. if you'd like me to explain any parts of this post in more detail, feel free to ask, as i feel i have left alot to be imagined, and already known through study of evoltion of the universe.
PEACE OUT!
Hey there humans... enjoying '08?
IN ADVANCE i'd like to apologise for the length of this, i hope you guys can bother getting through it all.
lately i've been pondering on something you've probably all gone over once or twice before, that is the need for existance. i know that the topic is impossible to resolve (so far in our advancement), so i shall put forth my reasoning, and hope you all have some constructive input.
i understand the process of how we got here (or the basics as explained by todays science)(i hope we all agree on the big bang theory), but i am puzzled as to our purpose.
my most sensible conclusion is that life is utterly random (there was no concious decision for things to occur), and chance (things really just kinda fell into place through time and energy), so really our only purpose is to make things comfortable for ourselves until the universe tears itself apart.
i believe that life is unecessary (at very least to the individual), so i dont really take life all that seriously, im more or less here for personal enjoyment.
thats where the choice falls into play, because with my applied logic (although possibly amazingly flawed), i can only see an instinctual/atomic drive to survive... even for those microscopic single celled oganisms that grew into us in the first place.
ALTHOUGH, my question towards my above statements would be; "then why would there be the capacity to exist if there was no point in existance"? i guess you guys could maybe help me out on that too.
maybe i will make no sense to anyone, but hopefully you guys will figure out what im trying to say and respond. good luck
p.s. if you'd like me to explain any parts of this post in more detail, feel free to ask, as i feel i have left alot to be imagined, and already known through study of evoltion of the universe.
PEACE OUT!
insert witty statement here
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi isol8ted,
I’d suggest the purpose of our existence is to reproduce and the opportunity of our existence is to obtain enlightenment.
Just don't mention supreme beings
Hi isol8ted,
I’d suggest the purpose of our existence is to reproduce
and the opportunity of our existence is to obtain enlightenment.Just don't mention supreme beings
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
Posted:
Hey there dude
Well I have one or two theories on reality, but I've never thought too deeply much about existence, has I believe we are actually here - though I personally have no idea why, nor do I actually care all that much; being somebody that naturally misses the point and mostly lives in my own fluffy little world anyway. But I guess now that we are here, we have an intrinsical drive to survive and progress our species i.e. breed.
But what we each live for? is a much more personal question, for me? I just wanna enjoy the ride, so I'm open to experiences and I want to experience as much as I can do, with the time that I have. Taking life seriously is something that can get on my nerves, more so by people that are driven by money. This being the route of all evil and such. So I don't see the point in being mean, as we're all here anyway, why spend the time making it more difficult when we could be making it more enjoyable? I'm sure we'd all like a few more hugs in the world.. especially with some of the places on the Earth that need them
Hey there dude
Well I have one or two theories on reality, but I've never thought too deeply much about existence, has I believe we are actually here - though I personally have no idea why, nor do I actually care all that much; being somebody that naturally misses the point and mostly lives in my own fluffy little world anyway. But I guess now that we are here, we have an intrinsical drive to survive and progress our species i.e. breed.
But what we each live for? is a much more personal question, for me? I just wanna enjoy the ride, so I'm open to experiences and I want to experience as much as I can do, with the time that I have. Taking life seriously is something that can get on my nerves, more so by people that are driven by money. This being the route of all evil and such. So I don't see the point in being mean, as we're all here anyway, why spend the time making it more difficult when we could be making it more enjoyable? I'm sure we'd all like a few more hugs in the world.. especially with some of the places on the Earth that need them
"They say it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile; thus smiling is for pansies" - The Short Gorilla
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast" - Ace Rimmer
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
ive thought about this a few times...
what i think is that, as i think you know, we cant prove for sure that any thing including ourself exists, but we know that we have ability to question this existance, think independant thoughts and stuff like that... we dont know for sure if anything else can do this. and i (i dont really think anyone) certainly have no idea how or why the collection of atoms that (supposedly) forms my body can do this thinking trick, as opposed to something like a tree, which is just another collection of atoms, but apparently has no ability to think.
so back to your question about existance. why dose anything exist at all? i have no idea about the answer to that and maybe nothing actually exists... so its hard to get started on that one.
but given something exists (the observable universe) why do we exist (we as in beings that can question our existence...) ? well i think that this is pretty much inevitable given the large amount of matter and time involved and the fact we dont know why one collection of atoms can think as oppposed to another one, i reckon more things are conscious than we give credit to we just dont properly understand things yet...
and the point of our existence?? this depends on your perspective, from the perspective of the universe as a whole our existence is pointless... from the perspective of other humans, other humans exist to provide company happiness, that sense of togetherness... from the perspective of tigers the point of humans is to kill all the tigers.. maybe.. so it depends, you can go at least some way towards deciding what the point of your life is going to be.
ive thought about this a few times...
what i think is that, as i think you know, we cant prove for sure that any thing including ourself exists, but we know that we have ability to question this existance, think independant thoughts and stuff like that... we dont know for sure if anything else can do this. and i (i dont really think anyone) certainly have no idea how or why the collection of atoms that (supposedly) forms my body can do this thinking trick, as opposed to something like a tree, which is just another collection of atoms, but apparently has no ability to think.
so back to your question about existance. why dose anything exist at all? i have no idea about the answer to that and maybe nothing actually exists... so its hard to get started on that one.
but given something exists (the observable universe) why do we exist (we as in beings that can question our existence...) ? well i think that this is pretty much inevitable given the large amount of matter and time involved and the fact we dont know why one collection of atoms can think as oppposed to another one, i reckon more things are conscious than we give credit to we just dont properly understand things yet...
and the point of our existence?? this depends on your perspective, from the perspective of the universe as a whole our existence is pointless... from the perspective of other humans, other humans exist to provide company happiness, that sense of togetherness... from the perspective of tigers the point of humans is to kill all the tigers.. maybe.. so it depends, you can go at least some way towards deciding what the point of your life is going to be.
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
GOLD Member
Member
20 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Member
20 posts
Location: Leeds, United Kingdom
Posted:
When I thought about it, I didn’t come up with anything, so im here for the ride. so I can make whatever I like of my life. if I died tomorrow I wouldn’t look back with disappointment. so far my list of hobbies is quite large:
fire spinning
kite boarding
kite surfing
windsurfing
skydiving
mountin biking
spray painting (proper art not graffiti)
apart from skydiving that is too expensive. Iv been doing all those things regularly for over a year and I love it.
While taking a lot of salvia (a legal hallucinogenic) I had a complete out of body experience. I fell threw the earth and in to nothingness, but was protected by patterns coming from my arms, eventually I came to realise these patterns where the edge of the universe, and I could touch them.
While I was in this little universe I was alone in there, I genuinely believed there was nothing outside the patterns either, there was no future or past. This would probably scare the crap out of most people but I loved it. When I came back to the real world I felt incredible and had this notion in my mind that nothing mattered. Again this could be quite depressing but I saw it as… all my failures meaning nothing. Nothing was expected of me and my life and so I could do with it what I pleased.
We also had a house fire that destroyed everything we owned a few years ago (luckily no one was hurt not even the cats) we all felt like everything we worked for had been taken. the sum total of our lives was gone. but we soon realised that there is a lot more to life than a big house. Since then we’ve been on several very nice holidays, spend a lot more time with friends instead of in front of the TV. We are all learning new skills and loving life more than ever.
When I thought about it, I didn’t come up with anything, so im here for the ride. so I can make whatever I like of my life. if I died tomorrow I wouldn’t look back with disappointment. so far my list of hobbies is quite large:
fire spinning
kite boarding
kite surfing
windsurfing
skydiving
mountin biking
spray painting (proper art not graffiti)
apart from skydiving that is too expensive. Iv been doing all those things regularly for over a year and I love it.
While taking a lot of salvia (a legal hallucinogenic) I had a complete out of body experience. I fell threw the earth and in to nothingness, but was protected by patterns coming from my arms, eventually I came to realise these patterns where the edge of the universe, and I could touch them.
While I was in this little universe I was alone in there, I genuinely believed there was nothing outside the patterns either, there was no future or past. This would probably scare the crap out of most people but I loved it. When I came back to the real world I felt incredible and had this notion in my mind that nothing mattered. Again this could be quite depressing but I saw it as… all my failures meaning nothing. Nothing was expected of me and my life and so I could do with it what I pleased.
We also had a house fire that destroyed everything we owned a few years ago (luckily no one was hurt not even the cats) we all felt like everything we worked for had been taken. the sum total of our lives was gone. but we soon realised that there is a lot more to life than a big house. Since then we’ve been on several very nice holidays, spend a lot more time with friends instead of in front of the TV. We are all learning new skills and loving life more than ever.
I refuse to tip toe threw live only to arrive safely at death
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
thanks for being number 1
although it was very short, and sweet, you bring up some interesting thought to chew on.
reproduction facilitates the capacity (through time and natural process, evolution if you will) for humans to gain a greater awareness of our state in the universe. enlightenment is something we attempt to achieve conciously, it is something like a goal.
therefore, isn't everything we do unecessary? if this enlightenment thing is just going to happen anyway? now i understand that the question that should arise from this is "how is there going to be enlightenment if there is nothing around to actually reach that point", but the main thing we have to remember is that we are a part of the universe. so, are we not just trying to understand a different component of ourselves? if we are not here viewing everything subjectively and we go back to being a complete part of the universe, then there is nothing to question because that its all "we will be" and that is all "there will be". then all we have to do is wait for the next supreme species to come along and realise the same thing, and again, and again... until times up and like i said before the universe tears itself apart.
when the universe (us) expands and stretches to its breaking point and we snap into countless (atleast for my brain to number) frayed pieces of ourselves is the only thing we would need to worry about then... but then again, we'd be pretty old and crabby by then anyways.
thanks for being number 1
although it was very short, and sweet, you bring up some interesting thought to chew on.
reproduction facilitates the capacity (through time and natural process, evolution if you will) for humans to gain a greater awareness of our state in the universe. enlightenment is something we attempt to achieve conciously, it is something like a goal.
therefore, isn't everything we do unecessary? if this enlightenment thing is just going to happen anyway? now i understand that the question that should arise from this is "how is there going to be enlightenment if there is nothing around to actually reach that point", but the main thing we have to remember is that we are a part of the universe. so, are we not just trying to understand a different component of ourselves? if we are not here viewing everything subjectively and we go back to being a complete part of the universe, then there is nothing to question because that its all "we will be" and that is all "there will be". then all we have to do is wait for the next supreme species to come along and realise the same thing, and again, and again... until times up and like i said before the universe tears itself apart.
when the universe (us) expands and stretches to its breaking point and we snap into countless (atleast for my brain to number) frayed pieces of ourselves is the only thing we would need to worry about then... but then again, we'd be pretty old and crabby by then anyways.
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
this fluffy world you speak of sounds very cosy and war, i wouldnt mind going there sometime.
you have a great mentality for a human bound to this planet, and if i wasn't spending way too much time looking for the impossible answers for things i'd love to come join you. (yes i realise how contradictory my personal time-wasters are hehe, but its what keeps me going)
if all humans shared this way of life then i wouldnt be looking for reasoning/justification as to why this place is so unimportant. it would be my universe, even though funnily i am earthbound and living on this planet is all i can really achieve.
thankyou very much for your post
this fluffy world you speak of sounds very cosy and war, i wouldnt mind going there sometime.
you have a great mentality for a human bound to this planet, and if i wasn't spending way too much time looking for the impossible answers for things i'd love to come join you. (yes i realise how contradictory my personal time-wasters are hehe, but its what keeps me going)
if all humans shared this way of life then i wouldnt be looking for reasoning/justification as to why this place is so unimportant. it would be my universe, even though funnily i am earthbound and living on this planet is all i can really achieve.
thankyou very much for your post
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
i thankyou for your input and apoligise that these replies are taking so long, im trying to look at each of these posts from every angle... and i admit i have to tend to the tedious labour of washing.... but enough about me.
quickly about reality... my plain (and probably wrong) stance on it is, we are a part of it, and unless we dont exist (in which case we wouldnt be thinking about it), what we are all experiencing (and what is binding us all together) is real.
so now, just to give ourselves a different perspective, why dont we look at trees intelligence? (hear me out)
now, you seriously cant think flora just evolved into being (in the observable universe... i like that term now) for the sole purpose of sustaining other lifeforms. they (yeah, im giving it a persona) must have a level of conciousness or they would not exist. it also must want something (and not just sustenance, or my theory on humanity being a cancer is more accurate than i hoped)
how futile all our actions and exploits must seem to a concious tree (if they were on our level of conciousness, i believe they are much higher evolved, therefore have no care for our actions). they are more eternal than man (in the perspective that they have and will be around for alot longer than us).
maybe one day we will share this ability (which i doubt). but as yet, we dont have the intelligence to harness our own brain for selective evolution... we are still at the mercy of our surroundings in this aspect. i believe we will have destroyed ourselves long before we are at the point of settling down, and admitting a lack of control.
i guess my perspective is that of the universe, because i know mine doesnt matter. dont get me wrong i enjoy my life, i just take it into view.
i thankyou for your input and apoligise that these replies are taking so long, im trying to look at each of these posts from every angle... and i admit i have to tend to the tedious labour of washing.... but enough about me.
quickly about reality... my plain (and probably wrong) stance on it is, we are a part of it, and unless we dont exist (in which case we wouldnt be thinking about it), what we are all experiencing (and what is binding us all together) is real.
so now, just to give ourselves a different perspective, why dont we look at trees intelligence? (hear me out)
now, you seriously cant think flora just evolved into being (in the observable universe... i like that term now
) for the sole purpose of sustaining other lifeforms. they (yeah, im giving it a persona) must have a level of conciousness or they would not exist. it also must want something (and not just sustenance, or my theory on humanity being a cancer is more accurate than i hoped) how futile all our actions and exploits must seem to a concious tree (if they were on our level of conciousness, i believe they are much higher evolved, therefore have no care for our actions). they are more eternal than man (in the perspective that they have and will be around for alot longer than us).
maybe one day we will share this ability (which i doubt). but as yet, we dont have the intelligence to harness our own brain for selective evolution... we are still at the mercy of our surroundings in this aspect. i believe we will have destroyed ourselves long before we are at the point of settling down, and admitting a lack of control.
i guess my perspective is that of the universe, because i know mine doesnt matter. dont get me wrong i enjoy my life, i just take it into view.
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Your life sounds quite exciting, im sure you have some amazing and beautiful memories. apart from the fire, but i guess in the long run it made you who you are today, im just glad no-one was killed.
that out of universe experience sounds like it had a profound effect on your life, i cant imagine what that would have been like. alas, salvia is illegal here in australia (and is impossible to get anywhere), so i can only count the days away til amsterdam, where i wont be hampered by police for my life choices (you understand).
thankyou for adding another positive post to this list
Your life sounds quite exciting, im sure you have some amazing and beautiful memories. apart from the fire, but i guess in the long run it made you who you are today, im just glad no-one was killed.
that out of universe experience sounds like it had a profound effect on your life, i cant imagine what that would have been like. alas, salvia is illegal here in australia (and is impossible to get anywhere), so i can only count the days away til amsterdam, where i wont be hampered by police for my life choices (you understand).
thankyou for adding another positive post to this list
insert witty statement here
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
I think life is a complex form of matter that forms only under very certain conditions. Like certain crystals.
And life forms evolving patterns of reproduction.
I like to think we're conscious because somehow, somewhere, there's a greater consciousness underlying all of this.
But I have no proof of that, so I can't suppose it.
I think life is a complex form of matter that forms only under very certain conditions. Like certain crystals.
And life forms evolving patterns of reproduction.
I like to think we're conscious because somehow, somewhere, there's a greater consciousness underlying all of this.
But I have no proof of that, so I can't suppose it.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
Posted:
OK, so lets define reality (a topic I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about) - and what we assume to be real..
*This may get a little heavy, you have been warned* The human brain basically works like a computer, it reads information given to it as input from our senses and then we act apun this data - hence output. But should we take for granted that this 'data' being read by our senses is real? We could look at things like the Brain in a Jar line of thinking, where our senses are hooked up to a computer giving us in input - much like the matrix. But for now lets just assume that it is real.
Now our we real? I think this is a much simpler question to answer. I think that we (when I refer to we or us, I'm refuring to our minds not our bodies as a whole) are real, for this reason. Experience. I believe that our ability to think 'inpendantly' (knowledge of self) is basically down to our being able to learn from our surroundings and gain experience from them. This as far as I can see, defines consciousness in all creatures - so in respect to trees etc they dont have the ability to learn so they dont have a consciousness - they just are. still following me?
Now - is reality real? I believe so, as far as we can percieve it to be. And I base this assumption on an experiment I read about, that was done on a kitten - I'm trying to find this website so I'll let you know when I do - the kitten had one of its eyes covered up when it was born, and later on in life they took the patch off to see if the eye still functioned. It didn't, but not only that, the kittens brain had actually disconnected the nerve endings connecting the brain to that eye. So I think that simply if reality wasn't there, then our brains wouldn't work - they wouldnt need to.
But now we could come back to, what actually is reality? But I've done enough rambling right now..
I'd like to know what you guys think about my assumptions though
do they make any kind of sense to ya'll? Am I infact without knowing it bringing us one step closer to the enlightenment we all crave? 
Thanks for taking the time to read this too, I do realise that you wont get those minutes back - they are mine now. And I'm keeping them
Written by: isol8ed
quickly about reality... my plain (and probably wrong) stance on it is, we are a part of it, and unless we dont exist (in which case we wouldnt be thinking about it), what we are all experiencing (and what is binding us all together) is real.
OK, so lets define reality (a topic I have spent quite a bit of time thinking about) - and what we assume to be real..
*This may get a little heavy, you have been warned* The human brain basically works like a computer, it reads information given to it as input from our senses and then we act apun this data - hence output. But should we take for granted that this 'data' being read by our senses is real? We could look at things like the Brain in a Jar line of thinking, where our senses are hooked up to a computer giving us in input - much like the matrix. But for now lets just assume that it is real.
Now our we real? I think this is a much simpler question to answer. I think that we (when I refer to we or us, I'm refuring to our minds not our bodies as a whole) are real, for this reason. Experience. I believe that our ability to think 'inpendantly' (knowledge of self) is basically down to our being able to learn from our surroundings and gain experience from them. This as far as I can see, defines consciousness in all creatures - so in respect to trees etc they dont have the ability to learn so they dont have a consciousness - they just are. still following me?
Now - is reality real? I believe so, as far as we can percieve it to be. And I base this assumption on an experiment I read about, that was done on a kitten - I'm trying to find this website so I'll let you know when I do - the kitten had one of its eyes covered up when it was born, and later on in life they took the patch off to see if the eye still functioned. It didn't, but not only that, the kittens brain had actually disconnected the nerve endings connecting the brain to that eye. So I think that simply if reality wasn't there, then our brains wouldn't work - they wouldnt need to.
But now we could come back to, what actually is reality? But I've done enough rambling right now..
I'd like to know what you guys think about my assumptions though
do they make any kind of sense to ya'll? Am I infact without knowing it bringing us one step closer to the enlightenment we all crave? Thanks for taking the time to read this too, I do realise that you wont get those minutes back - they are mine now. And I'm keeping them
"They say it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile; thus smiling is for pansies" - The Short Gorilla
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast" - Ace Rimmer
SILVER Member
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
Posted:
awesome! chears for that, yea maybe I got that bit slightly wrong :P tho close enough eh
awesome! chears for that, yea maybe I got that bit slightly wrong :P tho close enough eh
"They say it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile; thus smiling is for pansies" - The Short Gorilla
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast" - Ace Rimmer
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
The notion of something bigger taking care of things is very comforting, although the entity has pretty much let us run rampant to date. my personal opinion (if i was told that this was the case, and had to rationalise) is that the higher power/conciousness is not aware of our existance... its moreso attempting to keep a balance in the whole scale of things (as we are such a small fragment of what there is, and we are probably alot smaller than we are aware of)... or it is only looking out for itself, and we just happen to be brought along for the ride, much like we what we do with our cells and genetic makeup.
i guess a reverse microscope would give us a better bearing of where our importance lay (whether the universe we live in is as big as it gets, or we are just a part of a cell inside the body of a massive super-being... you get what im trying to say hopefully). what we need to do is develop a device that can see further than the exterior of the universe, and can condense whatevers out there into something small enough for us to be able to see.
The notion of something bigger taking care of things is very comforting, although the entity has pretty much let us run rampant to date. my personal opinion (if i was told that this was the case, and had to rationalise) is that the higher power/conciousness is not aware of our existance... its moreso attempting to keep a balance in the whole scale of things (as we are such a small fragment of what there is, and we are probably alot smaller than we are aware of)... or it is only looking out for itself, and we just happen to be brought along for the ride, much like we what we do with our cells and genetic makeup.
i guess a reverse microscope would give us a better bearing of where our importance lay (whether the universe we live in is as big as it gets, or we are just a part of a cell inside the body of a massive super-being... you get what im trying to say hopefully). what we need to do is develop a device that can see further than the exterior of the universe, and can condense whatevers out there into something small enough for us to be able to see.
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
dont you mean a computer works basically the same as a human brain?
but seriously, i agree with your statement on us being real, because i feel it is essentially just a more detailed version of what you quoted from me. i bet you thought of it before i did (and alot before this thread was created)), mainly on the basis im 17, and probably all my so called "original thought" has already been looked into (even if not published) by someone older and smarter than me.
your concept on reality being real is also quite accurate in my opinion. even though slightly corrected by 87wt2gxq7, it still stands to be justified reasoning. as i may have said somewhere, i havent really looked into reality all that much (due to my reasoning on the subject i felt it, personally, to be a unecessary subject to question), so i thank you for sharing your opinions so i didnt have to venture down that trail of thought.
you may keep my minutes, i would have wasted them on something alot less positive/beneficial had i not read this anyway. i consider them moreso "invested". high five!
dont you mean a computer works basically the same as a human brain?
but seriously, i agree with your statement on us being real, because i feel it is essentially just a more detailed version of what you quoted from me. i bet you thought of it before i did (and alot before this thread was created)), mainly on the basis im 17, and probably all my so called "original thought" has already been looked into (even if not published) by someone older and smarter than me.
your concept on reality being real is also quite accurate in my opinion. even though slightly corrected by 87wt2gxq7, it still stands to be justified reasoning. as i may have said somewhere, i havent really looked into reality all that much (due to my reasoning on the subject i felt it, personally, to be a unecessary subject to question), so i thank you for sharing your opinions so i didnt have to venture down that trail of thought.
you may keep my minutes, i would have wasted them on something alot less positive/beneficial had i not read this anyway. i consider them moreso "invested". high five!
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
you seem to have a large well of knowledge, so without meaning to be rude... would you be willing to address the main topic instead of just adding to others? i would love to hear your thoughts
you seem to have a large well of knowledge, so without meaning to be rude... would you be willing to address the main topic instead of just adding to others? i would love to hear your thoughts
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
~ Cup Cakes and Faerie Lights ~
110 posts
Location: Portsmouth, Uk / Kowloon, Hong Kong / Auckland, Ne...
Posted:
*high 5*
I assume you mean me? when your say stick to the main topic? I'm sorry about that I do tend to go off topic without realising it
But I believe I answered it in my first post :P in regard to the 'higher entity' theory, whether this is true or not I personally doubt we will ever know. Consider if you will, Ants in an ants farm, for lack of a better example. The purpose of the ants nest from our perspective is to watch the ants going about their daily business - to study for science or simply for enjoyment. But from the perspective of the ant? Simply living is their purpose I'd expect, going about their lives however they see fit - living for the hive, serving their queen etc etc. But they don't even know they are being watched, they live a normal life as they would do in nature - without the brain capacity to even comprehend that they have another purpose or that somthing is taking an intrest in them at all.
I would suggest 'our' lives to be fairly similar, though be it on a more complex scale perhaps. IF there is a higher entity, could our purpose simply be - to be. Studied for a unversal science project? A higher entities enjoyment? Who will ever know, or be able to say without an element of doubt. Will we ever be able to even percieve an entity so much more advanced than us to 'know'? Maybe through Enlightmenment? I'd like to know wot people think about those questions though.
But for now, I think we should all just enjoy being here. Though aslong as there is ever that element of doubt, I'll be living for myself and those that are close to me.
*high 5*
I assume you mean me? when your say stick to the main topic? I'm sorry about that I do tend to go off topic without realising it
But I believe I answered it in my first post :P in regard to the 'higher entity' theory, whether this is true or not I personally doubt we will ever know. Consider if you will, Ants in an ants farm, for lack of a better example. The purpose of the ants nest from our perspective is to watch the ants going about their daily business - to study for science or simply for enjoyment. But from the perspective of the ant? Simply living is their purpose I'd expect, going about their lives however they see fit - living for the hive, serving their queen etc etc. But they don't even know they are being watched, they live a normal life as they would do in nature - without the brain capacity to even comprehend that they have another purpose or that somthing is taking an intrest in them at all.
I would suggest 'our' lives to be fairly similar, though be it on a more complex scale perhaps. IF there is a higher entity, could our purpose simply be - to be. Studied for a unversal science project? A higher entities enjoyment? Who will ever know, or be able to say without an element of doubt. Will we ever be able to even percieve an entity so much more advanced than us to 'know'? Maybe through Enlightmenment? I'd like to know wot people think about those questions though.
But for now, I think we should all just enjoy being here. Though aslong as there is ever that element of doubt, I'll be living for myself and those that are close to me.
"They say it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile; thus smiling is for pansies" - The Short Gorilla
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast" - Ace Rimmer
SILVER Member
Sacrebleu
377 posts
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kingdom
Sacrebleu
377 posts
Location: At the quiet limit, United Kingdom
Posted:
Quite a lot of these ideas are discussed in the 'talking with god' thread. The original articles worth a read and very on topic even if you don't want to read the babble habbitually created by hippies shortly after
Hang on..
[Old link]
I'll post properly once I'm back in sync..
..Arrrrgh
Quite a lot of these ideas are discussed in the 'talking with god' thread. The original articles worth a read and very on topic even if you don't want to read the babble habbitually created by hippies shortly after
Hang on..
[Old link]
I'll post properly once I'm back in sync..
..Arrrrgh
Poi(poi~y) n. : A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
- part owner of Wooktastic™ ©
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Yeah a few more existing threads spring up in my mind over this topic... then again it's always good to shed light on this one from many more angles... go ahead.
I'm too short in time to participate "seriously" but I'll be lur king
Yeah a few more existing threads spring up in my mind over this topic... then again it's always good to shed light on this one from many more angles... go ahead.
I'm too short in time to participate "seriously"
but I'll be lur king the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Hi again isol8ted,
Reproduction facilitates the capacity for us to survive, and survival is what it’s all about. If we don’t reproduce we don’t exist. Evolution has placed us (Homo sapiens) at the top of the tree. And while we may have learnt to use tools, we have not evolved as species since the first H. sapiens walked the earth. Like, there is no new species of the genus Homo. Homo being bipedal primates that includes modern humans and several extinct forms, distinguished by their large brains and a dependence upon tools (dictionary dot com.)
The large brain that evolution has given, each and every one of, us provides us with the capacity to reach enlightenment, yet most of us choose to live like animals. You make a good point when you say " how is there going to be enlightenment if there is nothing around to actually reach that point". Because it’s only when we get back to nothing that we can create a new enlightened life. By that, I mean the state we are when we are born, before we are conditioned by our instinctive programming survival instincts. Which I think is what all the Adam and Eve, “original” sin and tree is of knowledge, stuff in the bible is trying to show us.
You may well laugh at the suggestion that our brain is just a computer, but that it is. If you want to learn something about our brain and artificial intelligence, I’d suggest checking out OWD’s The Ultimate Theory of Reality thread.
As far as supreme species (not supreme beings) go, the most likely explanation of our existence on earth is that we got here as bacteria traveling on meteorites.
I too am short on time to give this topic the attention it deserves.
Have fun
Hi again isol8ted,
Reproduction facilitates the capacity for us to survive, and survival is what it’s all about. If we don’t reproduce we don’t exist. Evolution has placed us (Homo sapiens) at the top of the tree. And while we may have learnt to use tools, we have not evolved as species since the first H. sapiens walked the earth. Like, there is no new species of the genus Homo. Homo being bipedal primates that includes modern humans and several extinct forms, distinguished by their large brains and a dependence upon tools (dictionary dot com.)
The large brain that evolution has given, each and every one of, us provides us with the capacity to reach enlightenment, yet most of us choose to live like animals. You make a good point when you say " how is there going to be enlightenment if there is nothing around to actually reach that point". Because it’s only when we get back to nothing that we can create a new enlightened life. By that, I mean the state we are when we are born, before we are conditioned by our instinctive programming survival instincts. Which I think is what all the Adam and Eve, “original” sin and tree is of knowledge, stuff in the bible is trying to show us.
You may well laugh at the suggestion that our brain is just a computer, but that it is. If you want to learn something about our brain and artificial intelligence, I’d suggest checking out OWD’s The Ultimate Theory of Reality thread.
As far as supreme species (not supreme beings) go, the most likely explanation of our existence on earth is that we got here as bacteria traveling on meteorites.
I too am short on time to give this topic the attention it deserves.
Have fun
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
old hand
853 posts
Location: Behind you...
Posted:
I was reading something in the paper this mornign that made me think of this thread, about a scientist postulating that reality could be, well, virtual:
https://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/01/vr-hypothesis.html
I was reading something in the paper this mornign that made me think of this thread, about a scientist postulating that reality could be, well, virtual:
https://www.newscientist.com/blog/technology/2008/01/vr-hypothesis.html
Idolized by Aurinoko
Take me disappearing through the smoke rings of my mind....
Bob Dylan
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
I’ve edited this post for clarity, and because, on a re-read, I didn't like how what I said came across.
I liked the Matrix, and I think we all get different things out of it. I got that it wasn’t so much about a virtual world, as about the world in our head. And I'll quote a favourite:
so much for not having enough time
EDITED_BY: Stone (1200700844)
I’ve edited this post for clarity, and because, on a re-read, I didn't like how what I said came across.
I liked the Matrix, and I think we all get different things out of it. I got that it wasn’t so much about a virtual world, as about the world in our head. And I'll quote a favourite:
Written by:
A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty (Albert Einstein)
so much for not having enough time
EDITED_BY: Stone (1200700844)
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Lau, i was intending the "stick to main topic" comment to be for the individual who corrected one of your earlier comments. i feel you've kept quite in the bounds of the originally outlined post, as everything you say is relative to it.
now in response to your latest comment, i feel that it is a great analogy of humanity,.. however, we would have to look at it in a purely physical sense, without adding psychology into it (as we know they "think" alot differently to humans).
now about the higher entities comment you made... also consider our ability to question this subject, and what kind of effect that would have on this "observing beings" conciousness/self awareness... we are yet to observe this in our "hospitable universe" (what we currently have the ability to inhabit/co-habit), nothing (observably) questions us or any concept apart from how they can stay alive. and seeing as we are in no apparent threat by this higher being, and the other species we have encountered ARE in constant threat by us, can we not deduct (until proven otherwise) we are the ultimate being? (atleast currently).
i know how self-important that makes humans sound, but i guess all i have to go on is fact... and logic.
i know how self-important that makes me sound, but im not attempting to be right, only opening up different trails of thought, whats right is up for you to decide.
Lau, i was intending the "stick to main topic" comment to be for the individual who corrected one of your earlier comments. i feel you've kept quite in the bounds of the originally outlined post, as everything you say is relative to it.
now in response to your latest comment, i feel that it is a great analogy of humanity,.. however, we would have to look at it in a purely physical sense, without adding psychology into it (as we know they "think" alot differently to humans).
now about the higher entities comment you made... also consider our ability to question this subject, and what kind of effect that would have on this "observing beings" conciousness/self awareness... we are yet to observe this in our "hospitable universe" (what we currently have the ability to inhabit/co-habit), nothing (observably) questions us or any concept apart from how they can stay alive. and seeing as we are in no apparent threat by this higher being, and the other species we have encountered ARE in constant threat by us, can we not deduct (until proven otherwise) we are the ultimate being? (atleast currently).
i know how self-important that makes humans sound, but i guess all i have to go on is fact... and logic.
i know how self-important that makes me sound, but im not attempting to be right, only opening up different trails of thought, whats right is up for you to decide.
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
thank you BurdaA and FireTom for your input, i realise there are many like me that talk about these issues, i more or less made this discussion in order to get feedback on my current topic of main interest. i await your next posts in earnest
thank you BurdaA and FireTom for your input, i realise there are many like me that talk about these issues, i more or less made this discussion in order to get feedback on my current topic of main interest. i await your next posts in earnest
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
howdy Stone, in response to both of your new posts.
the matrix is a very symbolic film for many people and in many different ways... its all about what your looking to find. that hopefully doesn't discredit anything indivduals/masses got out of it.
personally i dont feel enlightenment is anything more than a state of mind... mainly because its something someone wants to achieve (and therefore will achieve). i think we have to define what enlightenment is, but as it is an unrelated topic to existance, i look forward to commenting on your yet to be made thread about the topic (i say this without trying to offend)
i laugh at humans being like computers only for the fact that humans created computers, so all of their characteristics should be likened to ours, instead of
vice-versa.
thanks for showing such an active interest in this thread!
howdy Stone, in response to both of your new posts.
the matrix is a very symbolic film for many people and in many different ways... its all about what your looking to find. that hopefully doesn't discredit anything indivduals/masses got out of it.
personally i dont feel enlightenment is anything more than a state of mind... mainly because its something someone wants to achieve (and therefore will achieve). i think we have to define what enlightenment is, but as it is an unrelated topic to existance, i look forward to commenting on your yet to be made thread about the topic (i say this without trying to offend)
i laugh at humans being like computers only for the fact that humans created computers, so all of their characteristics should be likened to ours, instead of
vice-versa.
thanks for showing such an active interest in this thread!
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
hey there Tea Fairy
i looked at that website you linked up and i must say im intrigued.
I understand that this is pure theory... but the idea of "all this" being VR seems pretty hard to imagine... but ultimately... if he was right how unecessary would everything we are be?
the statement Brian Whitworth made about the big bang theory or quantum mechanics being just as strange is a huge mistake though, as he fails to even go into detail about how his system ( sad) works... as apposed to all the information provided for both of the other theories... although they are also just theory, i am alot more inclined to believe both of them.
thanks for stopping by, feel free to make yourself heard again
hey there Tea Fairy
i looked at that website you linked up and i must say im intrigued.
I understand that this is pure theory... but the idea of "all this" being VR seems pretty hard to imagine... but ultimately... if he was right how unecessary would everything we are be?
the statement Brian Whitworth made about the big bang theory or quantum mechanics being just as strange is a huge mistake though, as he fails to even go into detail about how his system (
sad) works... as apposed to all the information provided for both of the other theories... although they are also just theory, i am alot more inclined to believe both of them.thanks for stopping by, feel free to make yourself heard again
insert witty statement here
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
The concept of "reality" is highly convoluted. Look at an object, say a cup sitting on your desk. When you look at that cup, it becomes the center of your universe. If you are looking at the top of the cup you would have difficulty telling me what is written near the bottom of the cup.
Now look somewhere else in the room. Your eyes moved but you never saw a blur while your eyes found their new target. That's because your brain filters out the input that occurs during the saccade (the rapid movement of the eye).
We see colors because we can sense three of them, red, green, and blue. An alien eye set to see three different colors and interpret them as the full visual spectrum might not experience, say purple, as projected by one of our RGB screens.
The brain constantly filters incoming stimuli because it's important to differentiate between unimportant stimuli (the feeling of your watch on your wrist) and important stimuli (the poisonous spider crawling up your leg).
"Reality," if it could be presented in raw form to a human brain would be a bewildering and overwhelming set of inputs, and that's only for things that humans can sense, period. Imagine if you could sense infra-red or ultrasound or see subatomic particles as they go about their strange business of being many places at once while only being at one place at a time.
I submit that no human can know "reality."
The concept of "reality" is highly convoluted. Look at an object, say a cup sitting on your desk. When you look at that cup, it becomes the center of your universe. If you are looking at the top of the cup you would have difficulty telling me what is written near the bottom of the cup.
Now look somewhere else in the room. Your eyes moved but you never saw a blur while your eyes found their new target. That's because your brain filters out the input that occurs during the saccade (the rapid movement of the eye).
We see colors because we can sense three of them, red, green, and blue. An alien eye set to see three different colors and interpret them as the full visual spectrum might not experience, say purple, as projected by one of our RGB screens.
The brain constantly filters incoming stimuli because it's important to differentiate between unimportant stimuli (the feeling of your watch on your wrist) and important stimuli (the poisonous spider crawling up your leg).
"Reality," if it could be presented in raw form to a human brain would be a bewildering and overwhelming set of inputs, and that's only for things that humans can sense, period. Imagine if you could sense infra-red or ultrasound or see subatomic particles as they go about their strange business of being many places at once while only being at one place at a time.
I submit that no human can know "reality."
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
I think there's probably a lot to be found in our Junk DNA
(something tells me I've posted that link on here before in relation to something else...don't remember what it was though!)
I think there's probably a lot to be found in our Junk DNA
(something tells me I've posted that link on here before in relation to something else...don't remember what it was though!)
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
GOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Stream Entrant
2,829 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
Isol8ted, yes enlightenment is a state of mind, though I would not say it is easy to achieve. Perhaps I was confusing existence with purpose. To that end, I’ll say that as far as our purpose goes, we can get anything out of life that we want.
It's been a long day
Isol8ted, yes enlightenment is a state of mind, though I would not say it is easy to achieve. Perhaps I was confusing existence with purpose. To that end, I’ll say that as far as our purpose goes, we can get anything out of life that we want.
It's been a long day
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
Dear Doc, thanks for your input.
I totally agree, i had felt that this concept had to be added to this thread, yet i wouldnt have been able to construct is as well as you did, so thanks again.
i only have thing that i think can be added to this.
our current set of 5 senses is all that we are capable of utilising to understand and control our surroundings, and unless we evolve (or mutate?) extra senses this is all humanity can hope to use. therefore to us, this is as real as it gets. this is our narrowed down version of reality, but seeing that we are only a fragment of the universe... is it only our desire to control and know everything that makes us wish to absorb more? do we want to be gods, or atleast know what it is to be gods?
Dear Doc, thanks for your input.
I totally agree, i had felt that this concept had to be added to this thread, yet i wouldnt have been able to construct is as well as you did, so thanks again.
i only have thing that i think can be added to this.
our current set of 5 senses is all that we are capable of utilising to understand and control our surroundings, and unless we evolve (or mutate?) extra senses this is all humanity can hope to use. therefore to us, this is as real as it gets. this is our narrowed down version of reality, but seeing that we are only a fragment of the universe... is it only our desire to control and know everything that makes us wish to absorb more? do we want to be gods, or atleast know what it is to be gods?
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
hey Rouge Dragon... thanks 4 the link.
i didnt know about this study method before, its fascinating! maybe this code will explain some important (At least to us) questions we have been asking for along time... or maybe its just our genetics way of protecting us from radical mutation... i dont know, and im sure until we have mapped atleast a decent portion of these introns, i dont feel anyone can claim anything. but i know that i will definantly be keeping my eye out for any information released to the public on this subject.
i appreciate you adding this link, you have given me a new topic of interest!
hey Rouge Dragon... thanks 4 the link.
i didnt know about this study method before, its fascinating! maybe this code will explain some important (At least to us) questions we have been asking for along time... or maybe its just our genetics way of protecting us from radical mutation... i dont know, and im sure until we have mapped atleast a decent portion of these introns, i dont feel anyone can claim anything. but i know that i will definantly be keeping my eye out for any information released to the public on this subject.
i appreciate you adding this link, you have given me a new topic of interest!
insert witty statement here
SILVER Member
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member
33 posts
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted:
To 87wt2gxq7
all i can say is that was entertaining... i neither agree or object to the topic, and i dont think anyone can yet.
To 87wt2gxq7
all i can say is that was entertaining... i neither agree or object to the topic, and i dont think anyone can yet.
insert witty statement here
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