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Forums > Other Toys > FMX Motocross, BMX, and skating naming moves thread

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mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
So I really dislike the way that these exreme sports have say a "360" and an "opposite 360", which is apparently much harder than a 360 because it's turning the other way.

Discuss.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
meg, i thought your point was:



"riding and doing tricks switch is not "harder" - it is just the other way around that you never bothered to learn."



if that isn't your main point, what is?



i still assert that learning tricks 'switch' is harder (i.e. takes more time/more effort/feels more awkward) than learning them in your natural direction.



its almost impossible to test this scientifically but demonstrating it to yourself could be achieved by taking an entirely new task (e.g. learn to ride a skateboard comfortably) and see which way you would naturally prefer to learn it (regular or goofy).

then, intentionally swap that direction and learn to only ride 'switch' and see if you don't break down and go back to the way that feels loads more comfortable.





Written by: meghan

They (people other than skaters) don't then proceed to crow about how good they are cos they learned both ways. Nor do they repeat tricks just to show that they can do them both ways.






if it took you a year to get a trick solid and then another 6 months to learn it the other way, you might want to show it off too.



how long on average does it take you to learn a brand new contact staff move? a month? two?

maybe the reason you don't feel like switch tricks are something to shout about is because they aren't that hard for you to learn...

which is no reason to belittle the efforts of people doing things that you have never tried which have a far less steep learning curve - a curve so flat that learning the natural way is too feckin hard for most people that aren't kids.





cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: coleman



if it took you a year to get a trick solid and then another 6 months to learn it the other way, you might want to show it off too.






No, I would want to show it off. But I wouldn't expect people to be impressed. And I would have learnt it not to show off, but to be able to flow more consistantly through my moves and to get the staff to move around my body in more interesting manners.

Sorry if my previous post sounded pretty harsh, I reread and was like whoaaaaaaaa, that's way harsh! But then again, so this:

> "riding and doing tricks switch is not "harder" - it is just the other way around that you never bothered to learn."

Thats vaguely my point, but also missing the point. Maybe if you learned switch tricks from the beginning and never learned in your natural direction, it might be a bit harder. But then the natural way would be very much easier to learn.

And we've already established that once you've learned something one way, the other way doesn't take more time, or more effort than the original way did. (even if your impatience makes it feel like it does.)

What I'm saying is: You can't classify the same movement as intrinsically harder just because you're doing it on your weaker side / direction. It may feel harder to do, cos you haven't practised as much, and it may may have been harder to learn, because you've forgotten the agony that went into the other side and have massive impatience with this one, but there's nothing about it as a movement that is harder than the other side / direction.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: mcp


What I'm saying is: You can't classify the same movement as intrinsically harder just because you're doing it on your weaker side / direction. It may feel harder to do, cos you haven't practised as much, and it may may have been harder to learn, because you've forgotten the agony that went into the other side and have massive impatience with this one, but there's nothing about it as a movement that is harder than the other side / direction.




You know those pen spinny tricks? I can't do them. No idea how.

I'm right handed. Are you suggesting that it is just as easy to learn to spin a pen with my left hand as with my right?

I'm also right legged. My right leg is stronger and more dextrous than my left leg. If I put a keyboard on the floor, I could type with my right big toe way faster and more effectively than my left big toe.

So wouldn't it make sense that some tricks which use my right hand, and leg would be easier for me? It's biological wiring, not lazyness.

Or am I missing Meg's Point?

(Isn't the term "Meg's Point" an oxymoron? wink )

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: NYC


I'm also right legged. My right leg is stronger and more dextrous than my left leg. If I put a keyboard on the floor, I could type with my right big toe way faster and more effectively than my left big toe.





sweet. So I'll see you back here when you can do that then?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


fNiGOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA


Posted:
Written by: mcp



What I'm saying is: You can't classify the same movement as intrinsically harder just because you're doing it on your weaker side / direction. It may feel harder to do, cos you haven't practised as much, and it may may have been harder to learn, because you've forgotten the agony that went into the other side and have massive impatience with this one, but there's nothing about it as a movement that is harder than the other side / direction.






Yes, there is. Because when you learn a trick it takes muscle memory. When you learn a trick one way, you need to get your body to remember all the details of where things need to be. However, then when you switch sides to learning it on the non-dominant side, everything's reversed. Which means that besides having to have your muscles remember the movement, they also hafto override what was programmed in in the first place.



Its not a question of 'forgetting the agony'



Also, its called your 'weaker side' for a reason. Unless you pay a ridiculous amount of attention to stressing your body evenly, there will be natural tendencies. These tendencies show themselves in doing tricks.



Instance: I'm a righty. In skating there's a trick called the 'lutz' which requires you to leverage off of a toe pick to rotate. There is no way I can generate the same amount of power to do the trick lefty (and look good doing it). Now at the basic level, yes, I can do it. But at the highly competitive level, no forget about it. What I mean by the basic level is one revolution, a '360' if you will. Highly competitive level is 2 or 3 rotations (720,1080).



or maybe that's just me being confuse confused

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: mcp


Written by: NYC


I'm also right legged. My right leg is stronger and more dextrous than my left leg. If I put a keyboard on the floor, I could type with my right big toe way faster and more effectively than my left big toe.





sweet. So I'll see you back here when you can do that then?




um... what?

i typed this entire post with my right toe.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
ubblol
can we have a picture as proof please?

ubblove

Dr_MollyPooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
NO!
His toes are for my eyes only Mr Ucough spank

I can write with my feet, with the aid of a pencil that is. Left foot also writes backwards. And neither one writes anything of merit smile

UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
frown @ not seeing 'is toeses.

And.. someone needs to get onto TheBovrilMonkey.

about him writing with his left and right foot ubblol

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Is Mr Cof into feet? My feet? Ew. I mean my feet are cool and all but... Ew.

Written by: Molly


I can write with my feet, with the aid of a pencil that is. Left foot also writes backwards.




I had no idea your feet were so DaVincian. wink

Back on topic in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... and...

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


Dr_MollyPooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
Perhaps he is really a pobble eek

meg - try brushing your teeth with your left hand tonight.

I think my 'wrong' side is perfectly capable of everything my right side can do but through years of neglect and abuse it's all disadvantaged. Porr thing... um.. halfthing.

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: mcp


So I really dislike the way that these exreme sports have say a "360" and an "opposite 360", which is apparently much harder than a 360 because it's turning the other way.

Discuss.




yeah whatever.

Toe picks and 720's never came into this. Handedness never got involved either. Handedness will influence you, but as it's not relevant, I don't care.

Actually looking back at it, my original post doesn't seem that vague. Then coleman got confused and seemed to think that I cared about skating or snowboarding or whatever surfing rip off he happened to be doing these days. wink

Muscle memory doesn't work that way. The brain already has a copy of the way to do a movement, it just needs to get it to work for the other side. Which is why I can write with my left hand, since I've never actually sat down and practised.

I love mirror neurons.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Dr_MollyPooh-Bah
2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
(NYC - it'd be better if you could start counting from 50 or so)

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: Molly


Perhaps he is really a pobble eek





I would be happiest without my toes, but only if I had them stuck to my arms instead...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


fNiGOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA


Posted:
i'm sorry, but muscle memory works because of repetitive practice;

its called "muscle memory" because the muscles remember automatically what they're supposed to do

granted the brain has a copy of what is supposed to happen, but if the muscles arent accustomed to it, bad things can happen

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: Molly


(NYC - it'd be better if you could start counting from 50 or so)




I could count from 1000. People are ignoring my on topic posts so I don't feel so bad careening ... carreening... hrmm.. I've never spelled that word before.... um... going off topic.

I have no idea what anyone's point is or whom they're argueing with. Damn. Now I misused 'whom'. At least my fingers are still pushing the buttons. And my toes if need be.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


colemanSILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: fireNice


Instance: I'm a righty. In skating there's a trick called the 'lutz' which requires you to leverage off of a toe pick to rotate. There is no way I can generate the same amount of power to do the trick lefty (and look good doing it). Now at the basic level, yes, I can do it. But at the highly competitive level, no forget about it. What I mean by the basic level is one revolution, a '360' if you will. Highly competitive level is 2 or 3 rotations (720,1080).

or maybe that's just me being confuse confused




you aren't confused - that's the whole point right there smile

excuse me for being a complete rip off but i think i might just paraphrase what you said and them post a grouphug smiley before i go to bed...


you can learn tricks the other way - a lot of them to the same level as your natural side.

once you've properly learnt them they aren't any harder to perform than the same thing on your natural side.

but some tricks are so hard that the fact that you've been left or right footed/handed/toe'd (shout out to the toe crew) all your life means you probably won't be able to learn/be able to ever do them to the same level on your other side.


[disclaimer]
this is due to not having the time to invest in or the commitment to learning them properly on the other side.
for firenice to learn that trick to the level he's talking about on his unnatural side it could take complete devotion for the next ten years - physical therapy and gym and all all that stuff as well as loads of skating!

ergo: doing a really hard trick switch *is* harder


[disclaimer #2]
harder may be translated as 'takes sh!tloads longer to learn and therefore is more impressive and should be given more respect'.

if: not realistically having the time to invest = being too lazy

(which it probably did because meg was just saying it to be funny and to get a discussion goin smile)

then: i agree with you meg. smile

grouphug


cole. x

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: coleman



then: i agree with you meg. smile





Booooooo!

frown

The internet isn't for agreeing!!!

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
don't worry NYC, I still disagree with you.



Muscle memory argument response: In the words of the onion, "holy [censored] [censored]!" I didn't realise each muscle of my body had a small brain in it remembering what it's learned to do! My god A-Level biology really was slack! When they say muscle memory, they must really mean exactly that huh?

I'm real glad my muscles know how to remember things. Next time I remove my brain for cleaning, I'll get my heart to remember to beat, my lungs to remember to breath and my larynx to continue to function, just so I can keep talking crap.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


fNiGOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA


Posted:
ubblol

but do you really have to think exactly how to move your hands when you do a weave, or do your arms just do it?

while your having a conversation about muscles with brains ubblol

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more


mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
Written by: fireNice


its called "muscle memory" because the muscles remember automatically what they're supposed to do





dude, I used to do science. You can't say these things and not expect sarcasm. My arms don't remember jack [censored].

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


fNiGOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA


Posted:
lol, i skated for 15 years competitively, so you can't not expect mm to factor into the argument

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Who is Jack [censored] ?



umm

fNiGOLD Member
master of disaster
3,354 posts
Location: New York, USA


Posted:
*cue horrible game reference* You don't know Jack? wink

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
Nope. Thats why I asked wink

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
That's fine dude! It's just not called muscle memory cos the muscles remember it! It's called it cos it sounds cool, and gives an immediate idea of the concept, not cos you have a memory nodule in your muscles. Which is the immediate idea given to me by your post.

Why do I always have to explain? I'm obviously not practised at being sarcy.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
*wishes he was Polarity so he could come in and offer everyone homemade alcohol*
wink

mcpPLATINUM Member
Flying Water Muppet
5,276 posts
Location: Edin-borrow., United Kingdom


Posted:
where is chris? I mean, Where IS he dude? Did you eat him?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


UCOFSILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales


Posted:
*whistles*

NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: mcp


don't worry NYC, I still disagree with you.






I don't get it... um... I mean, OK, the incorrect title thing I get, that was funny, but the wondering if people like me... that's not a pet peeve of mine is it? *Scratches head* No... I can't recall ever having jumped on someone for wondering if people like me.. the questioning what I want out of staff... see now that sounds like something I would do from my poi posts... which contradicts the 'incorrect thread title' which is something that I wouldn't do... and the horrendous amounts of smileys... hrmm... that sounds like something I do as well...

I think what you meant to say was either:

1) "I'm off to make a thread with an incorrect title, yell at people who theorize about the purpose of poi and ban all smiley faces"

Which would have been funny becuase that's all the things that would bug me.

OR

2) "I'm off to yell at people who make incorrect thread titles, then I'm off to start a thread wondering what I want out of staff, while posting a sickening amount of smileys"

Because that's being sarcastic AND making fun of me.

I still don't get the 'wondering if people like me' bit because I generally don't care about that. And you didn't say it strong enough to have been sarcastic.

See if you switch between being sarcastic and not being sarcastic in the middle, it fails to make sense.

It's like trying to do a frontside and a backside 180 at the same time.

ubblol

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


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