Forums > Social Chat > the evil war on harry potter!!!!

Posted: 8th Oct 2002
arghhh It represents an excess of evil!
we must attack the book, under the guise of removing J K Rowling from power! then we will 'protect' out literary interests in that region of the book shop! I suggest an excuse like grammar inspections.

ah farkit, we'll just go it alone, nevermind what our European readers friends say about consensus! Who needs mandate when my book force is greater!
Yay now I can get Rowling back for that failed bid to papercut my dad! Yes! when every reader is engaged with that mirage, there will be little attention of my own local publications. woot!

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

Posted: 8th Oct 2002
Being a Christian and an avid Harry Potter fan I feel traped but let me share my opinion.

Is it something that I would want my young children to read? Absolutly not. Then again I dont want them to read Tolkin either and he was a Christian. At a young age I dont thing children should read books like these. When they are older and understand that the diferance between fiction and nonfiction I will be more than happy for them to read some outstanding books.

I personally have no problem with the Harry Potter books, like I said. I am impaitently waiting for the next installment she is taking entirely too long with it!! Other than that I have no problems with the series.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 8th Oct 2002

quote:

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Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Being a Christian and an avid Harry Potter fan I feel traped but let me share my opinion.

Is it something that I would want my young children to read? Absolutly not. Then again I dont want them to read Tolkin either and he was a Christian. At a young age I dont thing children should read books like these. When they are older and understand that the diferance between fiction and nonfiction I will be more than happy for them to read some outstanding books.

I personally have no problem with the Harry Potter books, like I said. I am impaitently waiting for the next installment she is taking entirely too long with it!! Other than that I have no problems with the series.

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But Ray, is the fact that kids are learning magic really that anti-Christian?

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 8th Oct 2002

quote:

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I am impaitently waiting for the next installment she is taking entirely too long with it!!

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three months! now that her case is out of court triumphant i may add) Her publishers have announced it will be released end of january.... meanwhiles harry potter the movie 2 comes out 28th November aus time, not sure about anywhere else....

quote:

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But Ray, is the fact that kids are learning magic really that anti-Christian?

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Mike, tis not the magic, but the source of the magic. Kind of hard to explain, but i can understand the veiwpoint Christians are coming from.

Currently on the right side up of the world.

Posted: 8th Oct 2002
i think it's funny that they had a BOOK BURNING in pittsburg over this book a while ago.... i swear, people need to calm down. since when is expressing creativity a sin? well, i disagree with most religion anyways, the ideals are just fine, but the orginized religions seem to take stands against thigns and hate, rather than come together in understanding. ugh, don't get me started....

harry potter book burning

-ivy. = ^ )

Ralph, jesus did not have wheels.--sunday school teacher, the simpsons

Posted: 8th Oct 2002
The "magic" learned or spoken of in Harry Potter books is no more real than Star Trek (sorry Mr. Malcolm). Comming from a friend who does practice magic (no not wikka, he feels insulted by anyone who claims wikka is real magic, dont ask me or be angry at me about it). The way that he puts it is that wands and incantaitions have nothing to do with actual magic, they are meerly used to distract the conscience and to allow the subconscience to work.

Now the whole concept with making things levitate or any other spell used in the books are what he says to be so advanced that a real witch or wizerd probably couldnt do them in a life time.

The idea of magic is to make things happen but to make it appear as a coincidence.

Now do not quote me on this, I am by no means an expert or even a believer or such acts. Frankly I find the idea of magic laughable, fictishious. If it was real and advantagoius then everyone would want to use it. Techknowlogy would be out the window and we would all just zap ourselves from point a to point b.

Just my little opinion.

Yes my children would be learning about a fictional fantasy world but that is why I would make sure that they knew it was fiction!

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 8th Oct 2002
hehe I used to live in Butler County Pa. hehe though I have never heard of that Church. If they would sit down with their kids and explain to them about the fiction in the book maybe they wouldnt be so insecure about it.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
Magic is laughable aye?? Well who really knows... except perhaps leprachauns and pixies and Mr Wheres Wally.... oh and perhaps those Buddhist monks who dispeared within an enclosed jail cell during the occupation of Tibete (Spelling) or the Monks who burnt themselves alive without flinching infront of the american embassies during the vietnam war. Maybe all the crazy happenings of the world can be explained through science, maybe some of them cant, who really cares because what happens in this world happens, regardless of scientific support or not.

Would someone care to explain why the earth's frequency (natural vibration) has increased from 7 hertz to 12 hertz in the last 20 years because all the scientists in the world cant figure that one out.

The workings of magic are just 'currently' unaccepted logic.

agh enough random blabbing for me.

HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
Monks speek? Perhaps they were mute, then again science isnt an exact science anyway!

Hate me for what I believe but you aint gonna change my mind, I wont try to change yours either.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
Its not about changing peoples minds, its about simply expressing your truth for what it is now, and then seeing the perfection in the truths expressed by others.

Just like there is no spoon... there is no right or wrong.

HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

Posted: 9th Oct 2002

quote:

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Originally posted by BurningByron:
The workings of magic are just 'currently' unaccepted logic.

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i TOTALLY agree with you there! i mean, think about how freaked out people would be by our technoglogies and advancements. what we don't understand today could become the logic/fundementals of tomorrow's society. that's exciting... to think that we can never be complete with the knowledge of the universe...

-ivy. = ^ )

Ralph, jesus did not have wheels.--sunday school teacher, the simpsons

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
comming back to the original topic....

it is so pycho, im a christian, but i see these absolute losers say 'potter is bad', when they havent read the book, but are just following a very stupid pre-concieved notion of some one elses intelligence.
whoever suggested the idea that potter is evil was a bag.

i heard the next book might be out before christmas!!!!!!

bring on the book baby!

The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all thebad girls live.

Posted: 9th Oct 2002

quote:

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Originally posted by BurningByron:
Its not about changing peoples minds, its about simply expressing your truth for what it is now, and then seeing the perfection in the truths expressed by others.

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BEAUTIFUL!

which has everything & nothing in particular to do with me & Harry (or Ray) right now (ya dig?)

May I quote you extensively in the future with this, BurningByron? seriously, & perhaps when i write?

now perhaps you'll e-mail me at FireMikeZ@yahoo.com and let me know how to credit you when i quote you.

I've been saying it this way:

quote:

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Originally posted by FireMike in the "Have we lost the point?" thread:
i'm not interested in changing your mind by replacing one idea with another.

i'm interested in ADDING to your perceptions, experiences, & what turns you on, your ADDING to mine, & both adding to both.

---

or a better follow up:

"if i do that [just replace your idea], i've failed. i want you to keep the best of what you've already discovered, and to add more to it, and get more from you to add to mine. it's all about each of us, with our wonderfully different ways, getting the best of everything."

"the best of everything" makes me cringe, it sounds so sappy, but it's almost been a book title for me to write about pluralism, multiplicity, it has the prime emphasis, and is memorable. the way my perspective has grown, Byron, i scrupulously don't speak of perfection much now, though it's a fine word for glory, appreciatoin, and wonderment, and sounds good off your tongue.

may it be of fire,

~ Mike

[ 09 October 2002, 21:22: Message edited by: FíreMîke ]

molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
so...have any of you HP haters actually read the books? or are you refusing to because of what you have been told?

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
I'm not a HUGE HP fan - i read & really enjoyed the first book, but have yet to read the rest (and i will, i will!! Just have a gazillion study-books to read first )
I think banning the books is utterly ridiculous - after all, they're about fighting evil aren't they? Not practising it!
Though i can see where you're coming from Ray, i don't think we should underestimate kids' capability to separate fact from fiction, either. My father read LOTR to me when i was four, and when i was a little older and could read for myself i loved Enid Blyton's "Faraway tree" books for instance. However much I enjoyed them however, I never thought for a moment that there were such things as hobbits and dwarves or trees with countries at the top of them - any more than I believed in fairy godmothers (cinderella) and talking wolves (red riding hood). Kids will believe grown-ups if something is presented as the truth (i.e. father Christmas), because they trust you not to lie to them, but if you don't try to convince them something is real, i think they're probably quite capable of telling the difference...

and Bender: , better go for a pre-emptive strike at Rowling before she publishes another!!!

everyone's unique except me

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
Ban the News I say!

Sex offenders, murders, war, fires, droughts, millions stravig, murders, gang wars etc

Far scarier than anything Harry & co have to face.

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
I've heard this theory that the difference between dieties and magic is the issue of control.

See, magic is a supernatural power that humans can control. But magic is at our bidding. If we order magic to make it rain tomorrow, it will.

Dieties are supernatural powers that we don't control, and so they aren't at our bidding. We have to ASK a diety to make it rain tomorrow, and then maybe it will.

Some religions (Santoria, for example), believe in both. In Brazil, many of the people practice a mixture of a sort of "voodoo" and Catholocism. I was on Copacabana beach for New Year's 2000 and I remember seeing people making voodoo sacrifices (flowers and floating candles and stuff) into the ocean. I remember thinking "Here we are six hours before the 21st century and people are making voodoo sacrifices into the ocean!" But these same people go to Church. And this is widely accepted there as well as in many parts of the world where Christianity mixed with the "magical" religions. They see no conflict.

Personally, I think you get the best of both worlds that way.

Incidentally, do you have someone annoying in your life that you want to go away? Write their name on a piece of paper, put it in a bowl of water, and put it in the freezer. I haven't tried it myself, but I know a number of people who swear it works!

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
Well, I am still disgusted by this groups actions, but at least they weren't forcing their will on anyone, just their philosphy. And that's what I view it as. Too often religious grous will try to spoil things for everyone else, but this time they just destryed their own property. That's their right. I'd rather they donated the items, or done something more constructive, less damaging. What if someone had a bookburning with hymnals, or bibles even? Would they be as accepting, would they turn the other cheek? I think not.

Hitler had book burnings for the exact same reasons that organized religions do, the purpose of mind control. Governments and Religions tend to thrive on controlling the minds, actions and thoughts of others. And I'll be happy to debate that with anyone.

As far as the debate of science vs. magic, it is suggested that historically, whatever science could not explain was left to the realm of magic. As we learn more and more about the scientific world, it proves only one thing, that science is best at disproving everything, including itself. It constantly corrects it's own mistakes as well as others. but I like it's sincerity in the search for the truth

I myself am not devoted to any partiicular religion, nor do I claim to be in the right, but I do have a stake in the realm of fantasy. I have several bookshelves devoted to stories of complete fiction and fantasy. Some of the titles that grace those shelves: Lord of the Rings, The Invisible Man, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Wolrd Mythology, Conan, 1984...and my Bible.

Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
You know, every time humankind's in danger of this evil thing called progress there's always gonna be some intolerant zealot to stand in the way of it screaming about how things should not change.

Let's consider - how many books did this book burning involve? Quite a few I would imagine. Which means those books had to be purchased first, which means that a decent chunk of change went to the publishing company so they can... drumroll please... make MORE Harry Potter books! They see profit in marketing this series, so they're not only going to put more of it out there, they're going to be very nice to the author so she can come up with more material, sequels, whatever.

Moral of the story - activists can be real idiots .

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
For some slightly funny humor related to religious intolerance, check out this parody site of fundamentalist Southern Baptists. It may offend those who take their beliefs very seriously, so if you don't wanna take it with a grain of salt and laugh a little, maybe it's not for you.

funny site (not serious!)

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
you want to know what is magic - the fact that a single mother in the UK on the doll can write a whimsical book and become a multi-millionaire.

The core of both science-fiction and fantasy is having the ability to do things that are not currently possible to add to the wonder of the story. Most (though certainly not all) sci-fi and fantasy stories could be written without that aid, but they would still be fiction. It seems silly to get upset over what is essentially a literary prop. Furthermore, both technology and magic (whether or not it exists) are value nuetral. They are only tools - no more evil than a pair of plyers or crossed fingers.

Funny that everyone is railing on about this when no one actually in this debate has said anything negative about these books. We are all getting upset at what some small minority of close-minded people do for a publicity stunt.

Let them burn the books if they really want to - they had to buy them first (either that, or they broke a commandment and are going to a hell of their own creation anyway). Thus, Ms. Rowling, her publisher, and the bookstore carrying her books still make their profits and are thereby encouraged to produce more of the books.

It really can't be helped if some portion of the population is too daft to have half a clue or think for themselves. It is inevitable really, just like the tail-end of any other distribution. Those at the opposite end of the spectrum have the advantage of intellegence and subtlety, which, slowly but surely, win out.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
I'm in agreement with those talking about the realm of human experience being enclosed loosely by science and magic. Science is the name we give the things we can understand or quantify, magic or miracles is the name we give to things we can't.

Raymond (and the rest of you), do you believe in the power of prayer? I'm not trying to change your mind. Only you can do that. But your beliefs all came from experience, and perhaps new experiences can add to them and help you change them. "Faith as small as a mustard seed", dig? It can move mountains. You either believe it or you don't, yeah? That's the trick with prayer and miracles. The good book also says "don't test me". Now how and why could those two passages coexist? I see it like this: For prayers to work, for the activation of blessings or miracles, you have to believe that they'll work. Faith as small as a mustard seed. But if you're TESTING God, you're not necessarily believing or concentrating or even HOPING it will work, therefore that form of test is invalid because the key variables aren't properly identified or controlled.

I've been under the protection of God and the Spirit my whole life, and it's worked out pretty well. This is not a test, but an expansive proof of concept every time it works.

Magic, as far as I can tell, works a similar way. If you go in without faith, it won't work, ESPECIALLY since, as ws mentioned elsewhere in this thread, magic depends on the individual activating energy themselves, or playing a very direct role in the request.

My main field is physics. Many of the physicists I know are also spiritual people. In physics you get to walk right up to the edge of what humans understand about the universe and struggle your way forward slowly. You get to spend your thinking time staring out into the indescribably immense, unknowable universe. It leaves you with a sense of humility, a new perspective on purpose, and a sense of magic.

There are particles in the world doing things you all wouldn't fucking BELIEVE. But this is their nature. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean we should just disbelieve and not try.

It's quite possible that everything we have the capacity to experience in the everyday world is a three dimensional projection of a multidimensional reality, an abstaction on a less asynchronous and asymmetrical truth. Magic and answered prayer could be cumulative effects of quantum principles projected from the planck scale to our scale. Or they could be coincidence (but I doubt it. Every spiritual or religious person in history seems to believe SOMETHING's up, even if they're not precisely sure what it is). But basically, if you haven't applied a real and exhaustive scientific study to a concept, you can't call it debunked in the eyes of science.

Think about all the wacky shit people of centuries ago believed. Especially in the medical profession. oh, those crazy fuckers! Parents were probably passing all that knowledge on to their kids, generation after generation, as well. If you don't believe in something, why would you ever pursue it? If you don't pursue something, how could you ever know if it's findable or not?

Galileo spent the end of his life under house arrest after having been threatened with DEATH by the Catholic church for having come up with a new understanding of the universe that has been PROVEN true. You want to talk about why more people aren't practicing magic today? Try centuries of systemic social and mental repression by the Catholic church. The Druids and Witches were pretty much wiped out and forced into hiding more than two millenia ago when the Romans took the lands of the Celts. A lot of people have died for having lived a little differently or because they were in the way of folks with looser morals (re: witch hunts in recent centuries, lethal gay-bashing, genocide of indigenous populations in North America and Australia). A population free to believe and think and gain power on its own is incredibly difficult to control. Now to what degree this control is or was maliciously or greedily imposed versus imposed for the population's supposed own good is always up for debate but, as evidence, at SOME POINT in history, the church was telling people that they had to pay the church money or they wouldn't get into heaven (see: indulgences or methods of absolution. note: this aint in the Bible ,folks).

In addition, yoga feels pretty great, but not everybody has time for that. Winning the olympics feels pretty swell, but not everyone CAN do that. Magic might be pretty nifty, but the really flashy stuff wouldn't just COME, now would it?

Basically, or current culture isn't ideally set up for people to explore levels of reality beyond the mundane. Things seem to be loosening up, though. Who knows?

Peace, Love, and freaky new experiences you can't easily explain to everyone.

-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
i'm sowwy brody man but if i look at that site one more time i'm goona hurl!!!!
"Little children going to hell for trick or treating".....
that just makes me mad....i'm sorry any baptists
one this site but i'm also luaghing at it also...
it is halarious also....it is mostly a bunch of idiots got their panties in a twist aboot stuff and then did a huge site aboot it.....
they actually had this on the site.....


Non-Https Image Link



well anywhoo out of site out of mind!!!!

-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
The way I look at it is miricles and prayer are real, magic is not. That is my opinion. I am not saying it to make anyone angry. I did not get into this post to argue magics and what not. I got into it to say that even as a Christian I do not have a problem with Harry Potter in fact I happen to enjoy reading the books.

Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
Whats the big deal? My daughter has all of the Harry Potter books and she doesn't wanna become Wiccan now, and if she did I'd research into it and try to support her in the ways I could..What happened to individualism???

And all my days are trances And all my nightly dreamsAre where thy gray eye glances And where thy footstep gleams-In what ethereal dances By what eternal streams. Edgar Allan PoeThe prophet is a fool and the religious man is fucking mad, and for the multitude of your sense and your inequity, and the great hatred......NANCY BOY

Posted: 9th Oct 2002
well put Raymund....

-LuNcHbOx, Aka. Nathan...Give a man to fish, and that man knows where to come for more fish...Teach a man to fish and you have just destroyed your market base...

Posted: 10th Oct 2002
I aggree. Well put.

Ray, please don't take anything I've posted as a personal attack or an argument. I was just putting my own opinions out there in a thread that seemed to have become a discussion on magic.

It's great that there are so many Christians in the world with open minds who don't waste their energies chasing useless shadows.

I grew up Christian myself, even taught Sunday School. Hence the references.

Keep on rockin' in the free world.

-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp

Posted: 10th Oct 2002

quote:

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Originally posted by LunchBox?:


Non-Https Image Link

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That was LandoverBaptist.com. It's a JOKE site. It's not for real.

Although, frighteningly, many of the things they "spoof" are pretty close to reality.

The problem that I have with LandoverBaptist is that it makes it seem like all Christians, heck, even all Baptists are hateful monsters who use religion as a justification for their megalomania.

Now, Ray is a Christian. He might even be a Baptist (are you, Ray?). Now, he may like shitty beer, but that's nothing to do with his religion, and he's not a hateful monster. Ok, he's not hateful, anyways.

Anyways, if someone put up a site called "LandoverSynagogue" and made fun of the extremes of the Jewish religion, I'd be pretty damned pissed off.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura

Posted: 10th Oct 2002
I think that the book burning was fucking racist in ways. I mean burning books from other religions because you don't like it. Can we get some white pillowcases here please. Give me a fucking break, the books are masterfully written. To me it is just the KKK in disguise

You. Its whats for dinner!

As time passes, you realise all the mistakes you amde and the ones you wish you never did make.

The wave crashing on the beach

Posted: 10th Oct 2002

quote:

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The problem that I have with LandoverBaptist is that it makes it seem like all Christians, heck, even all Baptists are hateful monsters who use religion as a justification for their megalomania.

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Kinda the point...
satirizing those few who use their religious convictions to demonize anything that becomes popular

We know they aren't everywhere (well, try going to school here in Oklahoma and and not seeing zealots on every corner) but that's where the expression "silent majority" comes from - you get a group of screamers doing something that gets media attention and suddenly they're generating a stereotype for everyone like them.

For a lot of groups, it's not so much an issue of morals or ethics, it's an issue about POWER. If they give in and don't raise hell about these few books in the beginning, then they think more and more stuff will pile up against them - same reason the US Government won't legalize marijuana, because if they bend on one drug they've been fighting for so long, it looks like they're caving in and people will push for more and more controlled substances to get legalized.

What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.