Forums > Social Discussion > how can a hippy remain fluffy in these times?

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
With a big hug from a Cartman fan?..







Jo.



PS. unfortunately I think you're absolutely right.



I also think it's no co-incidence that the recent(ish) growth in media power has coincided with general social problems. Making people sad or angry seems to sell well. The only solution I think is to abandon all media in favour of HOP discussion

Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
Hi Josh =)

Well, I agree with you in some things, but if you remember, hippies havent always been fluffy. And they didnt bary their heads in the sand. The movement itself was born as a remonstrance towards the society with all its unfairness and cruelty. They had mass - meetings against the war and nuclear weapons. But still, their idea was to bring love to the world and to love each other. Being a hippy doesnt mean being ignorant and just smelling flowers and making love. Being a hippie means denial of cruelty and unfairness in your head and your heart. That considers all the parts of human life and society. And since every person is a personality, they choose their own way of living with it. Some may hide their heads in the sand...

But since we live in such a terrible time in some sence, i guess, one thing is obvious - no matter how many marches against war you organise, no matter how hard you try, the main situation won't change. And i must say that when the hippy movement appeared, and the ppl started those strikes, marches, etc, it was HUGE, esp. in USA, BUT. They didnt manage to stop the korean war and the developement of the nuclear weapons, right? But they created an awesomely big hippy society all around the world. So being a hippy doesnt mean being an ignorant fluffy child of the flowers. it means having your own "peaceful" point of view.

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
i often wonder about this myself

how long would it take for you to think yourself into a depression if you wanted?

i could do it in about five minutes. it does seem hopeless. values are not valued anymore (were they ever?) and apathy is rife.
the richer get richer and so on. we all know the words to this song.

personally, i think we have a duty to remain fluffy. If we dont then we all lose. Its so easy to see the ugliness that i forget to see the beauty somtimes (alot of the time). Its so easy to become bitter and twisted about the system. how many people do you know that need about five seconds to go into a laymans rant about whats wrong with the world.

stay fluffly. positive thought, positive feeling, positive action.

and most importantly. do what you can. not everyone has to go to rallies. anything we do that contributes to the stabilty, growth or well being of peopl, society or nature is a good thing. that might mean baking someone a cake to cheer them up. everything counts. absolutley everything.

stay fluffy

Love is the law.

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
I don't agree with the "these times" sentiment.

I don't think we're worse off than we were during the Vietnam era in terms of politics and freedoms. McCarthyism? Cold War? Japanese internment during WW2? Native American opression? Racial inequity in America?

I think it may be naive to think of these as the worst.

*Shrugs*

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
so you think maybe its not as bad and thats why we dont have legions of flowery hippes sharing the love?

Love is the law.

Posted: 24th Mar 2005

Written by: ado-p

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stay fluffly. positive thought, positive feeling, positive action.

and most importantly. do what you can.

stay fluffy

---

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
empathise with the worlds problems but dont take them as your own, see the glass as half full and make a difference where you can. thats what i try to do but then again im not a hippy

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
remember to smile on the inside no matter what happens on the outside.. it's hard sometimes.. but if you make your self smile on the outside, you feel better on the inside..

I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

Posted: 24th Mar 2005


well I kinda agree with a lot that's been said here as well, but I would like to put it into words as follows:



you can't change the world by yourself, but you can change the world around you.

(be happy and fluffy, and bring fluffynes to those you meet)

eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Posted: 24th Mar 2005
fanks guys!

I think I need to print some T-shirts with "Stay Fluffy" on them.

As Ado-p points out, sitting at home in a depressive state worrying so much about the state of the world that you cant get anything done is actually contributing to the problem.

I dont accept your argument NYC, the way I see it, things have been running downhill since the 50's (although I should qualify that by saying most of my historical understanding is Australia-centric, however *that* also needs to be qualified; the US and Britain exert the most influence over Oz, culturally and politically.

Vietnam was stopped b/c of ppl exercising political power. We tried that over Iraq (before we had even sent troops) and it didnt work. With greater numbers, and less military committment This is a demonstration of the open degradation of value placed on democratic process.

If you can honestly show me how things have improved between the end of WW2 and now, I'll be impressed and happy. Your argument is EXACTLY the kind of thing the ruling class wants you to think, and yet you yourself are not a beneficiary (unless you are keeping a lot from us). Its in the best interests of the rich to make the working people think they should be lucky to have what little they have, even tho we have a lower standard of living than we have had in over 50years (at least in Oz, and I bet in the US too).

Wooo this is all coming off a bit red, I'll probly get banged up for this

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Posted: 25th Mar 2005

Written by: Josh

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even tho we have a lower standard of living than we have had in over 50years (at least in Oz, and I bet in the US too).

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really? i dont know that much about the history of oz i was under the impression the standard of living had been increasing. look at the attitude of our parents generation, its very save everything dont be extravigant dont throw things away incase it has a use later be conservative. now look at the attitude of our disposable generation, if its broke chuck it buy a bigger better more shiny one, even if it isnt broke still get a better one. to me that suggests a higher quality of living. back in the 50s if u had a car wow you where very well off, now days its common to have 2 in every house hold. not to mention computers in the 80s having a pc was a big deal, now days its common to have 2 or 3.

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

Posted: 25th Mar 2005
Hahahahah, you old hippie people are so funny.

How can we ravers maintain PLUR in this day and age of unpluriness?

(PLUR = peace love unity respect - the raver's mantra)

Hate, haters, and haterd in your way? Rise above it.

Shine on.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?

Wildfire/US East coast fire footage

LA/EDC glow/fire footage

Fresno fire

Posted: 25th Mar 2005
Naaa... I don't really want to play.



I'll just throw a few unformed thoughts out there and you can form them if you like.



General vague ideas as to things that have gotten better since the 50s. I'm gonna focus on the US cuz it's what I know.



I'm not saying the following are perfect, but I am suggesting that they are better than they were in the 50s.



-Race relations/laws protecting minorites.

-Gender equity.

-Heath Care.

-Some aspects of welfare for underprivelaged.

-Education.

-Transportation.

-I do think that there was an imperialist idealism in the 50s that was shot down (literally) during the vietnam era. I think Americans are more critial of war post Vietnam. There is no way in hell a draft would fly today. There is no way in hell you could send the percentages of troops that were sent and killed in vietnam. The US lost 49,000 in vietnam. What are we upto in Iraq? 2000? And over a MILLION north vietnamese died during the conflict. Superliberal estimates would suggest that 20,000 civilian iraqis died so far.

-I think there are more alternative media sources (such as the internet) that allow for smaller voices to be heard.

-Crime is WAY down since the 70s, especially in urban centers like New York.



Personally (and you did suggest personally) I am benefiting greatly from the status quo. Way more than I would have in the 50s. I have a great job that I love, job security, complete heath care, I make a ton of money, and I have 185 days off a year.



Now if you're going to suggest that this is all because the US has a greater strangle hold on opressing smaller countries, I'd agree.



But superficially life here, in the US, is fantastic.



I don't want to get into specifics. And this wasn't meant to be a brag session. I think that some of the things that are going on today are utterly horrible.



I'm not proud of my country. I'm not proud of my leadership. I'm not pleased with what's going on in the world. But there are many aspects of American society that have greatly improved since the 50s. (I mean McCarthyism, cmon!)



I dunno, like I said, I don't really want to get into this. I see gender and racial advances in the US as HUGE in the last 40 years and for the 65% of the country that isn't white and male that's pretty important. I don't think there's an educated black person in America that would think their lives would have been better in the 50s.



And the funny thing is I'm off to the left. I think that puts Josh off the left side of the left.



If you don't buy it, that's cool. It makes me happy that there are folks out there fighting the good fight.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 25th Mar 2005
I agree with you completely Josh.

We just have to keep our chins up and not let the events of our cruel world get us down. Live life at the most and smile because in all honestly, there's really not much we can do to stop these events.

By the way, I'd buy one of your 'Stay Fluffy' T-shirts.

.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.

Posted: 25th Mar 2005

Written by: NYC

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-I do think that there was an imperialist idealism in the 50s that was shot down (literally) during the vietnam era. I think Americans are more critial of war post Vietnam. There is no way in hell a draft would fly today. There is no way in hell you could send the percentages of troops that were sent and killed in vietnam. The US lost 49,000 in vietnam. What are we upto in Iraq? 2000? And over a MILLION north vietnamese died during the conflict. Superliberal estimates would suggest that 20,000 civilian iraqis died so far.

---

C'mon, NYC, does it matter that less people were killed during the war in Iraq? It only matters that they died. Thats not an improvement.
Please dont think that im somehow against USA. No way, ppl and the government isnt the same thing/ And my step sis lives in San Francisco, and she loves it.

Then ab the increase of the life level. Sure it had to increase during 50 years! I live in a country, where life has increased hugely durinhg TEN years. It was communism here, and it really was no good. Beleive me. Now its different. Absolutely. And its normal, time goes, things change. To the better or to the worce.

What we are talking ab here, is the problem of each person - what to do, what to think, what to be. How to be fluffy and nice in the cruel world...
Anyway...
Lets be at least friendly and nice to each other. Thats what makes every day better.

Posted: 26th Mar 2005

Written by: KaelGotRice

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Hahahahah, you old hippie people are so funny.

How can we ravers maintain PLUR in this day and age of unpluriness?

(PLUR = peace love unity respect - the raver's mantra)

Hate, haters, and haterd in your way? Rise above it.

Shine on.

---

Kangaroo Island eh? I hear that place is really hopping!

Posted: 26th Mar 2005

Written by: KaelGotRice

---

Hahahahah, you old hippie people are so funny.

How can we ravers maintain PLUR in this day and age of unpluriness?

(PLUR = peace love unity respect - the raver's mantra)

Hate, haters, and haterd in your way? Rise above it.

Shine on.

---

well, you can call me an old hippie, but I don't think that blasting out trance/dance music from your portable CD player in the park shows much respect. so maybe there is no R in PLUR ???
(I don't think drum circles in a park show much respect either: their sound carries a long way...)

eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
Friendly and nice because it makes you feel good. Money, power, and/ or attention make others feel good. Depending on their level of determination and how high in esteem they hold their goal, a person will often do just about anything to get what they want. In doing this they ignore, misinterpret, or are unaware of how the results of their actions affect those around them. To many, life is only about meeting these personal goals. And not everyone is open minded enough to see what they are doing to the world. But the most important point of this is that not everyone cares.

I realize that to dive into something believing that one will not be able to accomplish it in its completness usually removes the will to put in ones all, and often dooms a project from the start. But aside from some sort of psychological manipulation, mind control, or some inevitable global catastrophic dilemma which forever alters humankind's perception, there will always be cruelty, hate, hatred, and thier initiators, haters..

Fighting to completely remove hatered in the face of futility does serve to keep a balance though. And it seems that the driving factor in trying to spread "hugs" around the world, is the hope that the scales may one day tip drastically in favour of PLUR. Although I do not think there will ever be the harmony many wish for, I still say more power to those who want to change the world by increasing the number of hugs per day. I sure as hell do not have any problem with that.




I was just about to post a LOT more than what I just did. But after realizing that I was falling asleep while typing page after page of human-nature theory bs, I also realized that it would suffice to submit only my first 3 paragraphs... Although it leaves a lot of explaination out, I am just way to out of it to finish my already very long response.. But I did save it and will maybe try to bore you to death with it in the future.. bleh.!!!

LaterzzZzzzZZzz

hello?

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
NYC, i just have to point out that it is a total fallacy to say that the loss of the vietnam war has cause peoples reaction to war to change. people are not anti-war because vietnam was lost. they are, however, anti-death. specifically death of their troops. hell, start a war, just as long as none of our boys die. the public has become more casualty sensitive, partly due to media coverage of SMART (ie supposedly very accurate laser guided) weapons technology. but also because governments have become more sensitive to sending in troops who could be killed, for instance since the balkans conflict. I would also say that the super liberal estimates of 20 000 do not even approach the truth in terms of the casulaties that the US and Britain have inflicted on Iraq. apart from that, in this brave new world, there are the 'anti-terrorism' laws which threaten to remove some of our basic human rights. Incidentally the same thing happened in Germany with the burning of the Reichstag, and people were all for it at the time because, it needed to be done. Free speech in some parts of Germany didnt return till the fall of the berlin wall. Thats it really....

did i leave the iron on?

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
NYC, I agree with what you've said.
I know damn straight that given a choice, there's no way in hell I would want to be a woman in the 50's. Women's options back then sucked, to say the least. Job options were very restricted in many cases. There was not as much opportunity for women to get higher education, either.

Back then, the almost inevitable fate for a woman was marriage and motherhood. Not much life outside the home. It was much harder for women to get credit in their names, or to sign contracts. That means that a grown woman might have needed her father to sign a mortgage or a lease if she had no boyfriend or husband. How insulting is that? It sounds like something right out of a fundamentalist islamic country, but it used to happen right here in North America.

I consider myself very lucky to be living where and when I am right now. Someday, I may find a man I love and decide to marry him. But man or no man, I still want to earn my own money and have my own life. I don't want children either. I'm just not the mothering type. Never have been, never will be. It's just the way I am. At this time, it's much easier to make that choice and stick to it- women have many more means of controlling their reproduction than they used to have. In order to stay alive economically, I don't HAVE to compromise on my beliefs in order to get a man. I don't have to have HIS children in order for him to support me. (That's one thing I don't get- why is it always said that "she's having HIS baby"?)

Anyhow, moving right along...
The idea of a woman crane operator would have been incomprehensible in the 50's. Even until recent times, horrendous abuse was the norm for women in non-traditional or male dominated jobs. Things are getting alot better in these regards. Women can now enter careers that were previously closed to them. I'm sure the hardcore social and religious conservatives don't like that (some of them even hate on women wearing pants), but [censored] it. If they wanna be ignorant, go ahead. Just leave me out of it. As for treatment of women on the job, sure there are still some neanderthals out there. But said neanderthals have to watch their mouths and their hands now. Being abusive to a female co-worker is simply not tolerated in many places now. Sure, stuff still happens, but there is much more recourse in place to deal with it.

Don't even get me started on religious freedom- in the 50's, I might not have dared to say publicly that I was a Pagan. Public rituals? Hell no, we would have been physically threatened, assaulted, run out of town, or who knows what. Yes, we Pagans still have some hurdles to overcome in some areas, but at least now, it's ALOT safer in most cases to be open about who and what we are. We have learned to use the media to our advantage- I've seen TV crews at public rituals, filming the proceedings, showing the folks out in TV land that we don't worship any devil or sacrifice any babies. In my local community, we've got a pretty decent history of public ritual backing us up- the police know we're not a threat, and don't bother us anymore. I know that things are not perfect, but they could be a hell of a lot worse.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Tower Cranes, for you are soft and would look better when squashed by a full concrete bucket"

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
Mr. Squirrel,

Despite the fact that you completely disagree with me, I completely agree with you. Perhaps you are reading something into what I wrote that wasn't there.

You are right.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Posted: 26th Mar 2005

Written by: NYC

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-I do think that there was an imperialist idealism in the 50s that was shot down (literally) during the vietnam era. I think Americans are more critial of war post Vietnam.

---

sorry man. i think thats the bit that got me going.... t'was a case of me reading that bit quoted in someone elses post and not reading the whole of yours
glad we agree anyway peace

did i leave the iron on?

Posted: 26th Mar 2005

Written by: Parliament Of Peace

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Written by: KaelGotRice

---

Hahahahah, you old hippie people are so funny.

How can we ravers maintain PLUR in this day and age of unpluriness?

(PLUR = peace love unity respect - the raver's mantra)

Hate, haters, and haterd in your way? Rise above it.

Shine on.

---

well, you can call me an old hippie, but I don't think that blasting out trance/dance music from your portable CD player in the park shows much respect. so maybe there is no R in PLUR ???
(I don't think drum circles in a park show much respect either: their sound carries a long way...)

---

id be tempted to agree with you excepting that parks are supposed to be public places and sound ordinance notwithstanding, anyone should be able to "blast" music in a park. the respect is that any good raver would turn it down when asked.

Kangaroo Island eh? I hear that place is really hopping!

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
So where are we supposed to hold drum circles and other things that make any kind of noise? We don't all own homes with lawns and spacious yards. And we can't all go somewhere isolated to have fun, because we don't all have cars to drive there.

I find myself agreeing with Fathom on this one.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Tower Cranes, for you are soft and would look better when squashed by a full concrete bucket"

Posted: 26th Mar 2005

"not supposed to" ???? I didn't say that. you are not supposed to not do anything, but don't be suprised if people who are sitting around you don't enjoy (the often not so professional) drumming. don't forget most people come to the park to get out of the grayness of the city. to have a little nature with some peace and quiet to go with it. to play the drums is very in your face for most, because the sound carries so far and is very penetrating. but I'm sure most people won't mind you playing guitar and singing along...

eRic.

I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
if people are offended by something that you do, then thats their karma. thats their choice, to be offended.. they could have been pleased to have it, if their state-of-mind was in a different space..
do what feels right to you, and let others think what they will. dont be held back by what you think you should or should not do. do what feels right to you.

those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
Now I agree that Gender issues have improved between the 50s and the 80s, but I disagree that they are better now than they were in the early 90s and I know this is supported by recent research on womens wages and conditions in Australia at least, and I'd be very surprised if it were different in the US.

Education? Education here in the early 70s was a golden era, where PUBLIC schools and teachers were basically rolling in resources, whereas these days schools often have computers which dont even work, and the government is trying very hard to shift the cost of Education back onto the population by forcing them into private options (without reducing taxes of course). In the 60s and 70 we had free higher education on a merit based entry, this has been erroding since then back to a US system of full upfront fees, except for a token few scholarships. At the moment Australians (and ppl from other countries) can buy their way into just about any degree, and we have demonstrably lost places available in many degrees for ppl unable to pay upfront. We have a widening gap between the education available to the priviledged, and the education available to all. Howard recently said he thought some kids should leave school at the minimum age to go into trades, to fill a short term skills shortage in our overheated building sector. I think hes trying to create a Thatcher-eske under educated conservative class.

Stress and Depression are on the increase, with Depression tipped to become the number 1 health issue among Australians in the next 20 years.

Quality of Life? In the 50s in Australia, it was possible for one man earning an average wage, to support his entire family and pay off a house. He worked less hours for this. recently living costs have passed the stage where its possible to pay off a mortgage on one income while living in the house. An overwhelming number of ppl in Australia are not having children because they say they cant afford to. We are working longer hours than we have in ages, and by many measures the position of women in society and minorities are sliding downhill. Our middle class is dissappearing, we have far more low SE ppl and a growth in the wealth (if not the number) of the upper class. The equality that was largely delivered through the sentiments and philosophy born out of the pre-WW2 era is has been erroding since that time. The Hippy period of the 60s and early 70s was about as good as we got, and I see our society sliding back down again.

Health? In Australia and to a greater extent the US we have a system that is available mainly for the rich to treat rich ppls illnesses, and to serve the big pharm companies. Here in Australia our population is medicated up to the eyeballs, and is sufferring for it. My grandfather was so manipulated by money hungry doctors (he held a gold card - unlimited health cover for fighting in WW2) that his quality of life ran downhill over 10 years of operations on a sore foot, and then he died. This is not an isolated case, this is what our current system is doing to ppl - and it certainly isnt helping the majority of them, so lets ignore healthcare as an advance.

Minorities? Around the world we see an errosion (by the big 1st world nations) of adherence to the UNs Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A good example of this is in Australia; mandatory detention of refugees. There are many other exaamples, but i'm not going to start a war over that right now. We see errosion of the position of minorities within our countries too - maybe not right back to where we were in the 50s but certainly backward from where we were in the 80s-90s, in terms of support.

What about the Environment? In the 50s we didnt have a godo awareness of what was going on and how much damage we are doing, but in the 00s we DO know and we are still doing it. Australia and the US did not sign the Kyoto agreement..and no matter how small a contribution it was, the message that it sends to the peoples of these countries is that the US and Oz dont care about global warming. In one breath Howard says we have the strongest economy weve had in years, and in the next he says we cant afford the sacrificed required to reduce our emissions.

So I guess I agree with you NYC, we arent as bad in some ways as were in the 50s, but in many ways we are losing ground on where we were in the 70s (and I think we have lost ground in some ways from the 50s anyhow).

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
BTW Im feeling much better today hanging out on the w/end with fluffy ppl sorted me out

Josh

--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

Posted: 26th Mar 2005
For what it's worth, I'm Canadian..Canada is currently way more liberal than alot of the US seems to be right now, and I like it that way:)

As for not having children, there's probably alot more to that choice than simply finances. It used to be that having kids was "just what you do". No thought, you just accept the life script and do it. Now, it's more acceptable to choose differently, and more people are doing just that. To me, it's a good thing if some people realize that parenting isn't what they're cut out for, and therefore decide not to do it.
Not everyone is meant to have children- just read the news on almost any given day and you will see heartbreaking stories about kids being abused, neglected, and worse...by their own parents. Extreme examples, I know. But it happens.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Tower Cranes, for you are soft and would look better when squashed by a full concrete bucket"

Posted: 27th Mar 2005
Thanks Josh for a great question.. and one that I was thinking of a little when I wrote my "heartfelt post to the new generation' thread. And I was talking about this just yesterday with an old friend. Someone got it right earlier in this thread when they wrote that the original hippie thing was not actually fluffy at all, but very much in relation to serious and nasty events and a very fresh sense of challenging political opression and orthodoxy. And for myself I have found it very hard to stay 'up' in the face of knowing that although we KNEW about The Man / the Silent Spring, the Military Industrial complex - and the way the world would go if we couldn't fight that... ( I have SO much to say about all this!!!!) But we didn't win. My friend and I apologise for that. Our human rights in Australia have reverted in the anti 'terror' legislation to pre Magna Carta levels.

I talked to Robert Bly about this a few years ago.. a poet my age who'd been an activist since the Vietnam days and was still trying to do something useful through the Greedy 80's. I was feeling pretty overwhelmed living in Thatcher's Britain at the time, the crumbling nation state propping itself up with pre election wars, the usual crap... and asked him 'how do you stay optimistic'. He said something quite sound about cellular optimism, the nature of the organism to keep aligned to life force....

As for me, I don't take my inspiration from 'fluffy' anything. I take it from Tibetan monks who can be tortured and confined and still choose compassion. An immense discipline to practice love. And a word I really didn't even understand till I was near 50... forgiveness. In the sense that there's only one life happening here and we're it.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....