Forums > Social Discussion > Is Testing on Animals Acceptible?
Login/Join to ParticipateBRONZE Member
chemical attraction
1,097 posts
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
chemical attraction
1,097 posts
Location: Ilkeston, Derbyshire, England
Posted:
I am interested in everyones opinion as to whether they agree or
disagree with testing new drugs or products on animals before
they are released on to the market.If you do not agree how else
would you make sure they were safe and if you do agree please
tell me why...thanks
I am interested in everyones opinion as to whether they agree or
disagree with testing new drugs or products on animals before
they are released on to the market.If you do not agree how else
would you make sure they were safe and if you do agree please
tell me why...thanks
SILVER Member
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
yeah and cadbury bought green and blacks
yeah and cadbury bought green and blacks
To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting 
about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.
Member
152 posts
Location: London, england
152 posts
Location: London, england
Posted:
my god everyone is selling out
my god everyone is selling out
Kiss me now, You're beatiful, For these days are truly the last.
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Great site, thanks!
Written by: Birgit
another good one:
https://www.armyths.org/
(a bit biased towards the research, but it's a good read on penicillin, thalidomide etc)
Great site, thanks!
"Moo," said the happy cow.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
I think its funny that so many people are arguing about the morality of the behaviour of drug and chemical companies. I think its pretty much a contradiction of terms.
Animals are alive, sentient and feel pain. They do not supply consent for the torture, and no benefits are given to their families for their pain. I think drug and chem companies should pay humans to do their dirty work.
as for testing - I know someone who worked as a clinical data checker for a major pharm data checking company, and was told to rig the results. How does that fit with peoples ideas about drug testing?
pharms create stronger bugs - thats how come we have multi-resistant bugs and emerging super bugs.
yeah yeah sure perhaps 10% of the drugs on the market do some unique good, but why do we need so many different drugs that do the same thing? each one needs to be tested... why do companies invent new drugs that make little to no difference? it is profit driven and morals are competely thrown out the window in the majority of cases.
perhaps if the pharm comps were run in a socialist way with monopoly markets on effects we might be doing better...but they are like the torch holders for free market ideals, so fat chance of that.
err feel free to hook into me, as long as its within the rules of the site
I think its funny that so many people are arguing about the morality of the behaviour of drug and chemical companies. I think its pretty much a contradiction of terms.
Animals are alive, sentient and feel pain. They do not supply consent for the torture, and no benefits are given to their families for their pain. I think drug and chem companies should pay humans to do their dirty work.
as for testing - I know someone who worked as a clinical data checker for a major pharm data checking company, and was told to rig the results. How does that fit with peoples ideas about drug testing?
pharms create stronger bugs - thats how come we have multi-resistant bugs and emerging super bugs.
yeah yeah sure perhaps 10% of the drugs on the market do some unique good, but why do we need so many different drugs that do the same thing? each one needs to be tested... why do companies invent new drugs that make little to no difference? it is profit driven and morals are competely thrown out the window in the majority of cases.
perhaps if the pharm comps were run in a socialist way with monopoly markets on effects we might be doing better...but they are like the torch holders for free market ideals, so fat chance of that.
err feel free to hook into me, as long as its within the rules of the site
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Pyro - you have a good point here (IMHO)... but your missing one essential: Animals have no soul... [/sarcasm]
Drug testing on animals is unethical, any which way. It's the way the animals get treated and the principle itself.
Even though testing drugs on humans is much more ethical - who is going to sign up for it, except for people around the poverty line? Then again: how ethical would that be?
Understood and agreed that some drugs need to get tested and we need to develop drugs as to insure the survival (of the fittest...
)?
Pyro - you have a good point here (IMHO)... but your missing one essential: Animals have no soul... [/sarcasm]
Drug testing on animals is unethical, any which way. It's the way the animals get treated and the principle itself.
Even though testing drugs on humans is much more ethical - who is going to sign up for it, except for people around the poverty line? Then again: how ethical would that be?
Understood and agreed that some drugs need to get tested and we need to develop drugs as to insure the survival (of the fittest...
)? the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
How does that one anecdote have any relevance to the argument? Some people/organisations act immorally... that's obvious.
No, over-prescription of antibiotics are creating these bugs. There's plenty of other types of drug out there than antibiotics - an area which has seen very little development until recently anyway.
How do you know only 10% of drugs "do some unique good". I very much doubt that, and besides, given a range of drugs producing similar effects different drugs might have different side-effects which make them suitable for different people.
You seem to be equating animal testing solely with big pharma, which is wrong. It is also done by publicly-funded socialist researchers...
Written by: Pyrolific
as for testing - I know someone who worked as a clinical data checker for a major pharm data checking company, and was told to rig the results. How does that fit with peoples ideas about drug testing?
How does that one anecdote have any relevance to the argument? Some people/organisations act immorally... that's obvious.
Written by: Pyrolific
pharms create stronger bugs - thats how come we have multi-resistant bugs and emerging super bugs.
No, over-prescription of antibiotics are creating these bugs. There's plenty of other types of drug out there than antibiotics - an area which has seen very little development until recently anyway.
Written by: Pyrolific
yeah yeah sure perhaps 10% of the drugs on the market do some unique good, but why do we need so many different drugs that do the same thing? each one needs to be tested... why do companies invent new drugs that make little to no difference? it is profit driven and morals are competely thrown out the window in the majority of cases.
How do you know only 10% of drugs "do some unique good". I very much doubt that, and besides, given a range of drugs producing similar effects different drugs might have different side-effects which make them suitable for different people.
Written by: Pyrolific
perhaps if the pharm comps were run in a socialist way with monopoly markets on effects we might be doing better...but they are like the torch holders for free market ideals, so fat chance of that.
err feel free to hook into me, as long as its within the rules of the site
You seem to be equating animal testing solely with big pharma, which is wrong. It is also done by publicly-funded socialist researchers...
"Moo," said the happy cow.
SILVER Member
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
pyrolific, plants feel pain, but we still make daisy chains. I know it's not that relevant as they don't scream, but, oh I have heard this argument and so many like it for years. I protested at huntingdon life sciences and then realized, when some of my nearest and dearest got severely ill, how usefull animal testing for drugs is.
war, famine and nature itself creates much more dangerous bugs than anti-biotics. If anyone's to blame for the super bugs, it's the nurses that can't be bothered to wash their hands.
pyrolific, plants feel pain, but we still make daisy chains. I know it's not that relevant as they don't scream, but, oh I have heard this argument and so many like it for years. I protested at huntingdon life sciences and then realized, when some of my nearest and dearest got severely ill, how usefull animal testing for drugs is.
war, famine and nature itself creates much more dangerous bugs than anti-biotics. If anyone's to blame for the super bugs, it's the nurses that can't be bothered to wash their hands.
To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
This person should report whoever told them that. I don't know who too, but that is very wrong and it isn't something a proper scientist would or should say.
There is corruption in any line of work, the police have gone though inquiries because of misconduct, but no one thinks we should stop them, do they?
Written by: Pyrolific
as for testing - I know someone who worked as a clinical data checker for a major pharm data checking company, and was told to rig the results. How does that fit with peoples ideas about drug testing?
This person should report whoever told them that. I don't know who too, but that is very wrong and it isn't something a proper scientist would or should say.
There is corruption in any line of work, the police have gone though inquiries because of misconduct, but no one thinks we should stop them, do they?
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
SILVER Member
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Question, which is the greater evil?
Quick Sacrifice or allowing another to die when you could intervine?
As a Shaman I know what the answer is. Nature is unfortuanelty all about exchange, death and life, something must be given in order for something to be recieved. and nature is also extremely crule. For all those people who would stop animal testing, would you also stop harris hawks kiling a sealion pup (it's a slow death, being pecked and torn by shapr beaks, apparently it can take up to a day for the pup to die) thus causing the hawks (a miracle of nature in the fact that they are the ONLY communal hunters of the bird world) to starve?
difficult choices I hate them, but they have to be made
Question, which is the greater evil?
Quick Sacrifice or allowing another to die when you could intervine?
As a Shaman I know what the answer is. Nature is unfortuanelty all about exchange, death and life, something must be given in order for something to be recieved. and nature is also extremely crule. For all those people who would stop animal testing, would you also stop harris hawks kiling a sealion pup (it's a slow death, being pecked and torn by shapr beaks, apparently it can take up to a day for the pup to die) thus causing the hawks (a miracle of nature in the fact that they are the ONLY communal hunters of the bird world) to starve?
difficult choices
I hate them, but they have to be made To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
...or do we close down HoP because some people don't stick to the rules?
The people to report to would be, I think, the Home Office directly, because they grant the licences and can take them away again.
Written by:
There is corruption in any line of work, the police have gone though inquiries because of misconduct, but no one thinks we should stop them, do they?
...or do we close down HoP because some people don't stick to the rules?
The people to report to would be, I think, the Home Office directly, because they grant the licences and can take them away again.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
SILVER Member
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Momma Bear
4,525 posts
Location: Telford, Shrops, United Kingdom
Posted:
Perhaps it's because people have unique reactions to different drugs. For example, an antidepressant my friend takes makes him feel much better, however, when I was prescribed it, within a week i attempted suicide because it had screwed with my brain so much.
Written by: Pyrolific
yeah yeah sure perhaps 10% of the drugs on the market do some unique good, but why do we need so many different drugs that do the same thing?
Perhaps it's because people have unique reactions to different drugs. For example, an antidepressant my friend takes makes him feel much better, however, when I was prescribed it, within a week i attempted suicide because it had screwed with my brain so much.
Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.
BRONZE Member
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
3,289 posts
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted:
yep so people make the argument that animals need to be sacrificed because there is an increasingly small number of people for whom these 'new' drugs (which are usually based on older drugs) actually are more effective.
Another anecdote from a very successful pharm rep friend of mine. Now this guy is a champ at getting doctors to prescribe his drugs over the competitors. Well the doctors still tend to think there isnt really any big difference between the drugs!! If the doctors believe this after reading all the releveant research and after listening to all sorts of compelling arguments from a highly intelligent and informed professional drug salesman - then whats that saying?
as for the blowing the whistle on pharm companies being dodgy - people have been doing that for years!! it comes down to one persons word against an entire multinational. The person obviously loses their job (or leaves) and nothing gets done. And like anything would get done. The links between pharm companies and government (and therefore law and order) are very very strong. Look at the pressure Australia is under to take on a 'free trade' agreement with the US which basically will put up the price of pharms in Oz to match the US - who benefits from that?
Many of the drugs that are coming out now are for treating ailments that are largely correlated with our unhealthy modern lives.
bandaid thinking.
yep so people make the argument that animals need to be sacrificed because there is an increasingly small number of people for whom these 'new' drugs (which are usually based on older drugs) actually are more effective.
Another anecdote from a very successful pharm rep friend of mine. Now this guy is a champ at getting doctors to prescribe his drugs over the competitors. Well the doctors still tend to think there isnt really any big difference between the drugs!! If the doctors believe this after reading all the releveant research and after listening to all sorts of compelling arguments from a highly intelligent and informed professional drug salesman - then whats that saying?
as for the blowing the whistle on pharm companies being dodgy - people have been doing that for years!! it comes down to one persons word against an entire multinational. The person obviously loses their job (or leaves) and nothing gets done. And like anything would get done. The links between pharm companies and government (and therefore law and order) are very very strong. Look at the pressure Australia is under to take on a 'free trade' agreement with the US which basically will put up the price of pharms in Oz to match the US - who benefits from that?
Many of the drugs that are coming out now are for treating ailments that are largely correlated with our unhealthy modern lives.
bandaid thinking.
--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!
SILVER Member
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
OK, here is the question that in theory should sort all this out,
What SHOULD we do? instead of saying what is wrong, tell us what is right! please!
OK, here is the question that in theory should sort all this out,
What SHOULD we do? instead of saying what is wrong, tell us what is right! please!
To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.
GOLD Member
What a Bummer
3,224 posts
Location: Shatfield, Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
What a Bummer
3,224 posts
Location: Shatfield, Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Posted:
Do you have proof for that kind of comment? Or is it just an opinion. If so I would like to see such data.
Surely pharmaceutical companies are trying to help such people with unhealthy lives. You cant blame pharmaceutical companies for how people live their lives. People benefit from taking the medication, and the companies benefit from it. And the ammount of drugs coming out for people leading unhealthy lives does not out weigh the number of drugs coming out to help people with terminal illnesses, genetic disorders, cancers etc.
Just as an aside, I'm sure you'd need to be unhealthy to need the drug in the first place. Why would healthy people need new medications?
Oh, are you a vegetarian, and do you currently use medications?
I put this to you, and anyone else who is against animal testing in the Pharmaceutical industry. If one of your family members was dying, and a medication that could save that persons life/ease the pain/prolong your time with that person... would you support the testing of that drug, or value a rodents life over your own families?
Written by: Pyrolific
Many of the drugs that are coming out now are for treating ailments that are largely correlated with our unhealthy modern lives.
Do you have proof for that kind of comment? Or is it just an opinion. If so I would like to see such data.
Surely pharmaceutical companies are trying to help such people with unhealthy lives. You cant blame pharmaceutical companies for how people live their lives. People benefit from taking the medication, and the companies benefit from it. And the ammount of drugs coming out for people leading unhealthy lives does not out weigh the number of drugs coming out to help people with terminal illnesses, genetic disorders, cancers etc.
Just as an aside, I'm sure you'd need to be unhealthy to need the drug in the first place. Why would healthy people need new medications?
Oh, are you a vegetarian, and do you currently use medications?I put this to you, and anyone else who is against animal testing in the Pharmaceutical industry. If one of your family members was dying, and a medication that could save that persons life/ease the pain/prolong your time with that person... would you support the testing of that drug, or value a rodents life over your own families?
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
We are fast approaching the point where drugs will be custom tailored to the individual patient. The best way to test such drugs is to clone the patient and run tests on the fetus. Alternatively, we can change the law to allow the clones to be be born in a controlled environment, and run the tests on them while they are older, if needed.
The problem with using animals as test patients is obvious: animals aren't the same as people. The best test subject is a genetic duplicate of the patient. Taking advantage of a different species is not as efficient. We have the power to create copies of our own bodies, and this seems to be an ideal way to use it.
The only other alternatives to animal testing I can think of are vegetable tests, computer simulations, and use of existing humans. Vegetables aren't really similar enough to us to make good subjects, and many of the ethical problems that apply to animal testing also apply to plants. Computer simulations simply aren't accurate enough, since a model that we could construct would never accurately reflect reality. Using existing humans (naturally born ones) would require either getting their consent (which is hard to get) or to force them (which, since most governments give existing humans certain rights, presents us with legal problems).
The best solution seems to be to create genetic clones that will not be given the same legal rights as normal people. These would make ideal test subjects.
Written by: Sunbird
OK, here is the question that in theory should sort all this out,
What SHOULD we do? instead of saying what is wrong, tell us what is right! please!
We are fast approaching the point where drugs will be custom tailored to the individual patient. The best way to test such drugs is to clone the patient and run tests on the fetus. Alternatively, we can change the law to allow the clones to be be born in a controlled environment, and run the tests on them while they are older, if needed.
The problem with using animals as test patients is obvious: animals aren't the same as people. The best test subject is a genetic duplicate of the patient. Taking advantage of a different species is not as efficient. We have the power to create copies of our own bodies, and this seems to be an ideal way to use it.
The only other alternatives to animal testing I can think of are vegetable tests, computer simulations, and use of existing humans. Vegetables aren't really similar enough to us to make good subjects, and many of the ethical problems that apply to animal testing also apply to plants. Computer simulations simply aren't accurate enough, since a model that we could construct would never accurately reflect reality. Using existing humans (naturally born ones) would require either getting their consent (which is hard to get) or to force them (which, since most governments give existing humans certain rights, presents us with legal problems).
The best solution seems to be to create genetic clones that will not be given the same legal rights as normal people. These would make ideal test subjects.
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
I would like to know more about the advancment of computer simulations, I'm sure they are coming on very fast. I doubt that we will see any that are good enough to stop live tests for a long time, if at all.
I would like to know more about the advancment of computer simulations, I'm sure they are coming on very fast. I doubt that we will see any that are good enough to stop live tests for a long time, if at all.
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Evidence?
The plural of anecdote is not data
Again, evidence?
And you're still conflating testing with big pharma. I know it makes it easier to make an emotional point, but seeing as here in the UK for instance only a third of animal tests are done by commercial organisations you're missing out the majority of such research.
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1143163426)
Written by: Pyrolific
yep so people make the argument that animals need to be sacrificed because there is an increasingly small number of people for whom these 'new' drugs (which are usually based on older drugs) actually are more effective.
Evidence?
Written by: Pyrolific
Another anecdote from a very successful pharm rep friend of mine. Now this guy is a champ at getting doctors to prescribe his drugs over the competitors. Well the doctors still tend to think there isnt really any big difference between the drugs!! If the doctors believe this after reading all the releveant research and after listening to all sorts of compelling arguments from a highly intelligent and informed professional drug salesman - then whats that saying?
The plural of anecdote is not data
Written by: Pyrolific
Many of the drugs that are coming out now are for treating ailments that are largely correlated with our unhealthy modern lives.
bandaid thinking.
Again, evidence?
And you're still conflating testing with big pharma. I know it makes it easier to make an emotional point, but seeing as here in the UK for instance only a third of animal tests are done by commercial organisations you're missing out the majority of such research.
EDITED_BY: spiralx (1143163426)
"Moo," said the happy cow.
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Well seeing as how supercomputers are currently required to accurate model protein folding I think we're a loooong way off from a simulation we could be happy using.
Written by: Syn
I would like to know more about the advancment of computer simulations, I'm sure they are coming on very fast. I doubt that we will see any that are good enough to stop live tests for a long time, if at all.
Well seeing as how supercomputers are currently required to accurate model protein folding I think we're a loooong way off from a simulation we could be happy using.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
Patriarch, the problem with testing on a cloned fetus (regardless of what I think of it morally and legally) is that a fetus reacts differently than an adult. Even children often cannot be prescribed the same drugs, even in lower doses, than an adult. So you can wait about 12 years or so to start testing on your clone, by which time you're probably dead.
Sym, computer models are done as a part of "high throughput" drug generation (= start out with a whole lot of substances and eliminate them). The problem is that, even if you've managed to get a nice picture (e.g. x-ray crystallography, which takes aaaaaages but is very pretty if it works), it shows you one substance you've already used on a human and his/her enzymes, antibodies etc.
Now, to model how things related to that substance might react, you'd have to assume how the structure (configuration in science-speak) of the molecule it works on, let's say a receptor on the cell surface, is affected by the change in the drug structure. This can work, but doesn't have to...
Another problem especially with surface receptors (on which lots of drugs work, either to be transported in the cell or to stop or activate signal cascades) are very hard to get out of their membrane, so it's not easy to get a decent enough image of them to start calculations.
Patriarch, the problem with testing on a cloned fetus (regardless of what I think of it morally and legally) is that a fetus reacts differently than an adult. Even children often cannot be prescribed the same drugs, even in lower doses, than an adult. So you can wait about 12 years or so to start testing on your clone, by which time you're probably dead.
Sym, computer models are done as a part of "high throughput" drug generation (= start out with a whole lot of substances and eliminate them). The problem is that, even if you've managed to get a nice picture (e.g. x-ray crystallography, which takes aaaaaages but is very pretty if it works), it shows you one substance you've already used on a human and his/her enzymes, antibodies etc.
Now, to model how things related to that substance might react, you'd have to assume how the structure (configuration in science-speak) of the molecule it works on, let's say a receptor on the cell surface, is affected by the change in the drug structure. This can work, but doesn't have to...
Another problem especially with surface receptors (on which lots of drugs work, either to be transported in the cell or to stop or activate signal cascades) are very hard to get out of their membrane, so it's not easy to get a decent enough image of them to start calculations.
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
Ok, points taken about the computers, but I wan't so much saying that they could be used now (I'm sure they are used as much as they can be, if only because it's going to be cheeper and you don't make any new grave digging friends
) but saying that I'm sure their use will grow as computing power does - in 30 years time computers will be very very fast indeed, so I'm sure they will be used more.
Ok, points taken about the computers, but I wan't so much saying that they could be used now (I'm sure they are used as much as they can be, if only because it's going to be cheeper and you don't make any new grave digging friends
) but saying that I'm sure their use will grow as computing power does - in 30 years time computers will be very very fast indeed, so I'm sure they will be used more. There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
You can never be sure that a simulation is going to react the same way as a living system.
And, of course, there's only one way to test that a simulation is in any way accurate.
You can never be sure that a simulation is going to react the same way as a living system.
And, of course, there's only one way to test that a simulation is in any way accurate.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
yes, I know - I'm not trying to say that live testing should be stopped, but I think anything that will cut down testing cases will be welcomed by all.
yes, I know - I'm not trying to say that live testing should be stopped, but I think anything that will cut down testing cases will be welcomed by all.
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
BRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)
Posted:
I got your point, Sym, but even if the computers are better, they'll only get a few different possible answers quicker and still not know which is right.
Apart from the problem of getting the structure of a molecule first... computers already are very useful in saving lots of time and eliminating candidate substances that then don't go into bacteria, animals or humans
I got your point, Sym, but even if the computers are better, they'll only get a few different possible answers quicker and still not know which is right.
Apart from the problem of getting the structure of a molecule first... computers already are very useful in saving lots of time and eliminating candidate substances that then don't go into bacteria, animals or humans
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
I used to live with one of the guys developing this,
Its has incredible potenital.
https://www.grid.org/about/gc/
I used to live with one of the guys developing this,
Its has incredible potenital.
https://www.grid.org/about/gc/
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
Why should clones, A) be allowed as that really IS playing the Gods or B) if they are allowed whyshould they not be considered equal?
Why should clones, A) be allowed as that really IS playing the Gods or B) if they are allowed whyshould they not be considered equal?
To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I haven't any objection to playing god, but clones are people too.
Since they were never concieved a christian might consider them soulless on the grounds that the soul is attached at some unknown point during the proscess of conception. However that's not an opinion I am willing to give credence to.
I haven't any objection to playing god, but clones are people too.
Since they were never concieved a christian might consider them soulless on the grounds that the soul is attached at some unknown point during the proscess of conception. However that's not an opinion I am willing to give credence to.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
GOLD Member
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Pirate Ninja
3,882 posts
Location: Galway/Ireland
Posted:
I wonder if that includes imaculate conception.
I wonder if that includes imaculate conception.
Love is the law.
SILVER Member
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
big and good and broken
7,330 posts
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kingdom
Posted:
now there's a dilemma.
cole. x
now there's a dilemma.
cole. x
"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood
SILVER Member
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
old hand
722 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
eeek, not playing God, but bringing about the 2nd coming? That the Gods I'm Pagan, I only have to contend with Ragnarok
eeek, not playing God, but bringing about the 2nd coming? That the Gods I'm Pagan, I only have to contend with Ragnarok
To you who has been accessing my online accounts, changing my login details, locations and posting about me, realise, you are not worth revenge, you are not worth my attention, you are nothing, and that is all you ever will be.
Member
152 posts
Location: London, england
152 posts
Location: London, england
Posted:
but are people not playing god, or pissing around with ''god's'' duties (im not a chiristian by the way) when they use animals purely for breeding and then take their young away from them and put them through testing, giving them cancer and stuff?
i suppose this view depends on if you see humans as a superiour race to other animals? survival of the fittest yea?
but are people not playing god, or pissing around with ''god's'' duties (im not a chiristian by the way) when they use animals purely for breeding and then take their young away from them and put them through testing, giving them cancer and stuff?
i suppose this view depends on if you see humans as a superiour race to other animals? survival of the fittest yea?
Kiss me now, You're beatiful, For these days are truly the last.
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