Forums > Social Discussion > BP oil spill

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
@ RC: that's all you can extract from my posts?

The point is that BP is owned 50% by American institutions and individuals... Whilst many of the media report that BP is "a London based company" - indicating that (INVADE BRITAIN) the problem is not as much home made as foreign.

I do ride a motorcycle and as such get by far better mileage/ gallon, do have a trailer (tiny to American standards) for my stuff, for which I rent a vehicle to tow if I must. Whenever possible I resort to trains, rather than airplanes. But there still is a lot of room for improvement.

"Corporate Standards" exactly is the way of measuring which got us into this mess in the first place. Not indicating a culture clash here, but I would love to see "ethics" move back into the corporate world, before applying their standards as "ultima ratio"...

You lost the (civil) war... get over it.

@ EoN: Rouge now repeatedly said that riding a bicycle seems not an option where you live... ever heard of "j'ecxuse - j'accuse"?

Originally Posted By: EoNIf we collect the facts as we go and learn from this, the mob should have someone to crucify and hopefully it can be prevented from EVER happening again.

Give'em their attitude, how 'bout that?

Fact of the matter is that we all do depend to some extent on fossil fuels (ever tried to light up your poi with olive oil )... we are not helpless and there is a lot we can do.

As to solutions:

In Germany (at least) fruit and veggies in the supermarket are marked for their origins. I choose German or European origins. As Americans you should choose American - or stuff grown in your state. Sorry - it might mean that it's not a Mango or Papaya every day...

Turn off electricity every time you don't use it. Also energy saving bulbs DO consume energy.

Talk about car pools, public transport with your friends and neighbors, talk about the (objective) facts and pull back the response-ability from "our government!!!" back into your area at home. Sorry - it might mean you loose some sympathy points...

Live what you preach and choose alternative transportation whenever possible... downsize your vehicle - if possible - and talk to your friends and relatives about it, consider and suggest hybrid or electric vehicles... Sorry, have them reconsider their SUV or RV... dare

MAYBE (in areas with snowfall for winter) even consider to buy another vehicle... to drive a light and low consumer in summertime and keep the other one for winter. Or to use the small one for shopping 50miles away and getting to work - and the other one for your long distance travels, tough jobs.

This is as much a time for self inflicted changes and actions as it is a time for changing attitudes and spreading the word.

Make it as if "it's cool to go green"... show encouragement for the new way - and disapproval of the usual drag.

Ah - preachertell again Stop being ridiculous, Tom...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...-oil-spill.html

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNoviceI wanna come live where it's 65 degrees year round, mostly sunny, and clothes don't wrinkle (no sweat or B.O. either!). You know what I mean, can we try to not have a pissing contest for once? And look at all people as being different with different needs? I mean it Rougie (which I never called you because I hate when people give me an "ie" nickname from my real name BTW, but you prefer it which is good where I'm a one syllable kinda girl) even though you're the polar opposite of me it doesn't need to predict an imminent run around on semantics.

*extends hand for a shake*

likewise

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: Refuge CrewDidn't you want to move to Texas?

Hellz yeah! In an air conditioned home which will be provided... But I have visited in the past and let me tell you I'll take dry heat over humid heat any day! You can at least breathe and not feel like you're suffocating in dry heat.

Originally Posted By: FireTom@ RC: that's all you can extract from my posts?

The point is that BP is owned 50% by American institutions and individuals... Whilst many of the media report that BP is "a London based company" - indicating that (INVADE BRITAIN) the problem is not as much home made as foreign.

I do ride a motorcycle and as such get by far better mileage/ gallon, do have a trailer (tiny to American standards) for my stuff, for which I rent a vehicle to tow if I must. Whenever possible I resort to trains, rather than airplanes. But there still is a lot of room for improvement.

"Corporate Standards" exactly is the way of measuring which got us into this mess in the first place. Not indicating a culture clash here, but I would love to see "ethics" move back into the corporate world, before applying their standards as "ultima ratio"...

You lost the (civil) war... get over it.

@ EoN: Rouge now repeatedly said that riding a bicycle seems not an option where you live... ever heard of "j'ecxuse - j'accuse"?

Originally Posted By: EoNIf we collect the facts as we go and learn from this, the mob should have someone to crucify and hopefully it can be prevented from EVER happening again.

Give'em their attitude, how 'bout that?

Fact of the matter is that we all do depend to some extent on fossil fuels (ever tried to light up your poi with olive oil )... we are not helpless and there is a lot we can do.

As to solutions:

In Germany (at least) fruit and veggies in the supermarket are marked for their origins. I choose German or European origins. As Americans you should choose American - or stuff grown in your state. Sorry - it might mean that it's not a Mango or Papaya every day...

Turn off electricity every time you don't use it. Also energy saving bulbs DO consume energy.

Talk about car pools, public transport with your friends and neighbors, talk about the (objective) facts and pull back the response-ability from "our government!!!" back into your area at home. Sorry - it might mean you loose some sympathy points...

Live what you preach and choose alternative transportation whenever possible... downsize your vehicle - if possible - and talk to your friends and relatives about it, consider and suggest hybrid or electric vehicles... Sorry, have them reconsider their SUV or RV... dare

MAYBE (in areas with snowfall for winter) even consider to buy another vehicle... to drive a light and low consumer in summertime and keep the other one for winter. Or to use the small one for shopping 50miles away and getting to work - and the other one for your long distance travels, tough jobs.

This is as much a time for self inflicted changes and actions as it is a time for changing attitudes and spreading the word.

Make it as if "it's cool to go green"... show encouragement for the new way - and disapproval of the usual drag.

Ah - preachertell again Stop being ridiculous, Tom...

Um, FireTom, that's RC's quote not mine....

And you missed my point about bikes because it isn't about me (I don't own one and pretty sure I've forgotten how to ride one as I haven't touched one since I was like 12) or where I live, it's why people tend to need to leave their home to begin with and what condition they need to be in where they're going. That's why I made a joke and dropped it. LOL

You know I didn't want to bring this up, but you do realize we're one solar flare or gamma burst away from being wiped of the face of the universe and as evolution has taught us there is a vibrant age and extinction for several classes of lifeforms on that scale?

I'm not saying don't try to be nice to the planet as I try in many ways, but we only live once and you cannot take a U-haul behind you. I don't believe as humans we have a "purpose" and life is essentially meaningless until we place our own values on it, I think changing might make conditions more comfortable but in no way is going to change the inevitable fact that we all will live, we all must die, and all species will at some point go extinct and new ones will evolve. The earth itself could be blown to bits by many cosmic forces while we're on it or not at any second.

Just trying to be realistic, I don't believe in adding to problems that affect others, but there's a point to wake up and smell the coffee that we none will live forever as individuals, a species, or a planet. I'm not going to preach to people or try to make something cool because it's annoying and insulting, but when people see the impacts of their actions themselves and reflect on the personal implications they will react in a manner they're capable of and do something.

Life is a huge gray scale with very few absolutes, nothing you posted can change the situation of what occurred and if you want ethics in the corporate world you have to go do it yourself or blow a lot of hot air and be ineffective. But you would have to change all those things you think are wonderful to be accepted by the corporate world and clean up well. Is it worth it to you to try or would you rather just rant about them?

Just another way of looking at the puzzle and I endorse/encourage nothing in particular, another angle to the conundrum of samsara and transient phenomena.

Originally Posted By: FireTomhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/7804922/BP-chief-Tony-Hayward-sold-shares-weeks-before-oil-spill.html

When will people learn that Capitalism IS NOT SUSTAINABLE???


EDITED_BY: EpitomeOfNovice (1275932382)
EDIT_REASON: this version of Vbulletin doesn't have auto merging posts, and quotes take forever, but I'm all done now :P

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Like I said before in my last post, my friends and I are having parties/events where people buy tickets and all of the proceeds go to two organizations that we've found who are helping with clean up and rescuing the animals caught in the oil spill. Join Pirates For The Gulf on Facebook. That's one of the events we're having. We're trying to find spinners to perform at the event right now. Even though this disaster is horrible, we can try to do something positive. Complaining never got anyone anywhere. Parties are an awesome and fun way to get people involved and to help out.

Couscous, the food so nice they named it twice.

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: Frost_DreamerLike I said before in my last post, my friends and I are having parties/events where people buy tickets and all of the proceeds go to two organizations that we've found who are helping with clean up and rescuing the animals caught in the oil spill. Join Pirates For The Gulf on Facebook. That's one of the events we're having. We're trying to find spinners to perform at the event right now. Even though this disaster is horrible, we can try to do something positive. Complaining never got anyone anywhere. Parties are an awesome and fun way to get people involved and to help out.

A friend of mine is doing something similar, but for a different cause with animal rescue and she has had a very positive response. I'm in your area, send me a PM or add me to the facepage with the details and I'll see what I can do. I'm supporting my other friend's event in VA, but it's not until September. I look up the group/event page today.

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTom@ RC: that's all you can extract from my posts?

Are you waiting for a spin game? Keep waiting...

Originally Posted By: FireTomThe point is that BP is owned 50% by American institutions and individuals... Whilst many of the media report that BP is "a London based company" - indicating that (INVADE BRITAIN) the problem is not as much home made as foreign.

BP's stats, which you posted, do not back up this claim.

Originally Posted By: FireTomUS...................25.................14

Seriously! I am not sure where to begin spin doctor Tom. Which media? I recall you yourself being guilty of doing this very thing because it played to your argument.(ah humm, The Concord incident, which was total rubbish). This 39% are indeed, American people and institutions, "which again are ordinary people, who ask banks to invest their money in funds..."

As far as I can tell, the issue isn't as much about BP, Transocean, or Halliburton and their standards, as much as it is offshore drilling. You did after all post 'BP oil spill', placating the mass media's forgone point of view about where to lay blame. I might suggest a title change to further your argument about introspection.

Originally Posted By: FireTom"Corporate Standards" exactly is the way of measuring which got us into this mess in the first place. Not indicating a culture clash here, but I would love to see "ethics" move back into the corporate world, before applying their standards as "ultima ratio"...

You will find no argument from anyone here, unless you try to make one out of thin air.

Originally Posted By: FireTomYou lost the (civil) war... get over it.

Yank, is a colonial term, the colonist played 'Yankee Doodle Dandy' to the surrendering crown soldiers. The colonist came to adopt the playful name. Those whom were not colonist, never viewed themselves as such, and find the name as ridiculous as it was intended. It has little to do with the civil war. But I don't blame you for not having the sophistication to understand that.

Germany lost WW2, should it be fair to call all Germans Nazis applying this same standard? I feel the same about the term Pom. I don't feel that all people in the UK agree with Peoples(or Prisoners, have your pick) Of, Her Majesty.

Originally Posted By: FireTomIn Germany (at least) fruit and veggies in the supermarket are marked for their origins. I choose German or European origins. As Americans you should choose American - or stuff grown in your state. Sorry - it might mean that it's not a Mango or Papaya every day...

Also agreed, It's exactly the same in North America, and of course, choosing US or North American produce first is a logical step, just as in Germany choosing German or European produce first is.

EoN is right. That was my quote and it had far higher context than you have taken it for. Crucify and mob(mentality) are in the deepest of sarcasm.

Is that enough extraction? Is the point of this post, what we should know about BP? Is it meant to evolve in so many contradictory ways? Are we trying to address the obtuse issues that brought us to this disaster? Is it to be more conscience about how our actions lead corporations to violate the environment in our names? And so on.....

Frost, it's a beautiful and effective thing your friends and you are doing. You should post a link to make it easier. Can anyone say collaboration? The wonderful RL MOD might be able to help draw attention to your cause.

Originally Posted By: EoNLife is a huge gray scale with very few absolutes, nothing you posted can change the situation of what occurred and if you want ethics in the corporate world you have to go do it yourself or blow a lot of hot air and be ineffective. But you would have to change all those things you think are wonderful to be accepted by the corporate world and clean up well. Is it worth it to you to try or would you rather just rant about them?

Similar to my view. I think action is far more important than words, especially, when those words are stating the obvious.

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Frost Dreamer and RC: just because I forgot to mention it previously - wow, good on ya for personal effort to contribute on a larger scale, helping to clean the mess up and getting people involved. Great stuff Chapeau.

EoN: If that's the case, grant me pardon for mis-quotation :thanks:

But frankly: which one of the two are you now up to? "We only live once and the planet is going to blow up and we're all going to be extinct anyway" or "be nice to the planet and try to leave a better future for our kids"? I'm often trying to balance the two myself - only trying to find out where you pivot.

PS: RC - this is boring (at least for me) as it is going again into that tit-for-tat-who's-the-smartass-now situation. Have it your own way then. Actually - if Germany would have won the war you'd use "Nazi" as a honorable compliment, not an insult - so spare me the bickering please. I introduce myself to Dutch people as "a Muff" and to Anglos as "a Kraut" - makes things easier not to identify yourself with a heritage you never earned.

As for the rest: I tried to emphasize that BP is owned by almost as many people and institutions originating in the US as in the UK... (according to the BP website) - thanks for making me aware that I'm horribly bad in manipulating public opinion by faking statistics. Of course - genius - these numbers still don't say anything about how many shares are owned by nationality - which would be the really interesting part

[ed] but if I would have offended you - as a southerner - then I honestly ask your pardon too.
EDITED_BY: FireTom (1275945584)

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Well FireTom, personally I'd put myself on the lower impact side of moderate in terms of sustainability. I lead a waste not, want not existence and conserve for financial reasons more so than ecological reasons. It just happens that being frugal with money and the essentials you need money for also lessens the impact on nature and brings a better future for starting a family in more ways than one.

I have a small car with good gas mileage/low emissions to do the essentials I fill up a maximum of twice a month (unlike the old guzzler may she rest in peace). Every time I use my car I accomplish all I can on the trip to and from the goal destination, never drive in foul weather, keep up with simple maintenance to optimize safety & economy, fill up the tank during the coolest part of the evening to prevent evaporation before sealing the cap.

I'd also rank myself as moderate on the scale because I do live in an apartment with utilities since it's all I can afford and manage with my lifestyle/priorities (not to mention having to move every few years) LOL, but without sacrificing comfort I eat mainly products grown and manufactured in a 100 mile radius, always take reusable bags shopping, attempt to produce minimal waste, and be conservative on utility use but not to save the planet. Instead I do these things to cut down on cost, clutter, to be healthy, and comfortable. No big sacrifices, but the choices lessen the carbon footprint in the big scheme of things and it's sensible and feels good in more ways than one.

Being responsible and considerate to our surroundings is honestly the path of least resistance I've learned from experience. If you slack off (littering, not handling your business, etc.) and the cycle includes others refusing to pick up the slack due to the same attitude it only comes back to hurt you, I prefer to nip things in the bud from the get-go and avoid the trouble that comes from shortcuts. I'm not going to make myself a slave to adhering to any impossible goal or idealistic lifestyle, nor will I diminish wonderful experiences fulfilled in a reasonable manner, but common sense (a trait not so common anymore) I'm a firm believer in and is how I choose to live.

So I'm moderate and conscientious for my own set of priorities that benefit myself economically and in terms of comfort, then after that my surroundings benefit a little by having less of a toll taken. I see nothing wrong with being sensible in the balance, the lengths some go I don't consider healthy or enjoyable for myself and what I see most others do makes me appear the "environmental" type locally and amongst my peers. Hope that's a good explanation.:)

*a touch off topic, but I tend to try to answer questions to the best of my ability*

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
FT it's boring for everyone... But you persist on the same path again and again. Do not make personally bias statements in a public forum if you are not prepared to be challenged for them.

There is such a thing as an opinion other than your own. I have every right to express the other side, if I please, and feel obligated to do so when I feel it should have voice, even if I don't agree. I would hardly call that tit for tat.

I have yet to even hear mention of blaming a 'London based company'. No one I have talked thinks one thing has to do with the other. Being London based is so irrelevant that it hasn't even been mentioned on any of the US nightly news. Where this overly presumptuous 'invade Britain' thingy of yours came from I do not know.

A heritage you have never earned, indeed!

I am willing to concede when you are.

Moving on then?

I think that the percentages do sum up the shares owned by nationality.

I don't think targeting BP is ethical, even if they have acted unethically. In the end, taking down BP does more harm than good, but they, along with everyone else involved, should be made example of to deter corporations from thinking they can sidestep the values, regulations and laws of our societies.

As far as taking responsibility for this, I feel little responsibility. It isn't a case of buyer beware, this may kill everything in the ocean.

I purchase petrol expecting that it is done as safely as possible to the environment and not at the expense to livelihoods or the future. I would rather think, it happened and, that, is the reality. My choices are, I could complain or be a proactive part of the solution, regardless, of how much fossil fuel I do or don't rely on. This oil spill will move into the Atlantic and on to Europe soon. Whom will we blame then?

I will forecast the future, if anyone likes, and I believe my prediction will be more accurate than a ruling magistrate in a criminal case.

We have every right to expect our governments to act on this matter. We rely on them to keep us safe and protect our environment. In this case, the US agency responsible for enforcing the standards set out by law, took BP at it's word. They should not have and they too should shoulder some of the blame.

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
Truth, RC speaks the truth.....

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 7th Jun 2010
RC: So we're all the same legible to voice my opinion? Did you ever find me telling you to shut up? (at least not at times when you agreed with what I said, right?) However: where were you when I got called a Nazi? Double standards it is? [/ironic]



Dispersal of the oil could take years (at least they might give the fishermen a chance to earn some $$$ during fishing ban)

Some ideas to clean up the spill whilst

BP bosses family gets police protection...

I'm kind of split on the latter as I personally do support holding CEO's responsible for the damages resulting from companies operation - hence not physically. Declaring a witch hunt has still to be proven productive.

Originally Posted By: TelegraphAmid the outcry over the worst oil spill in US history, Mr Hayward and BP were offered a modicum of comfort by Haley Barbour, the governor of Mississippi, who said that hysteria surrounding the leak was more damaging than the oil itself.

"The truth is we have had virtually no oil," Mr Barbour told Fox television. "We've had a few tar balls but we have a few every year", he added, because of natural seepage in the Gulf of Mexico.

"The biggest negative impact for us has been the news coverage," he said, as reports gave the misleading impression that the entire coast from "Texas to Florida" was "knee deep in oil".

The Republican governor came as close as any elected politician has to arguing that the biggest oil spill in US history was being exaggerated, at least in regard to his state, which has a smaller coastline than Louisiana, which is closest to the origin of the spill.

Mr Barbour is known as one of the most vocal pro-oil voices on the US political scene, receiving almost $700,000 from oil and gas industries in his past two campaigns. From 2000 to 2007, his lobbying firm was also paid $2 million for representing oil and gas interests.

And you know what's so sad in all this? That - while we feel and display so much dissent for no other reason than grudges - we oversee the core issues and retard to being like little children closing their ears to the voices of reason.

I too expect governments to control and regulate companies, keeping citizens safe... but I would expect companies to do that in the first place. I'm certain that if BP was going down amidst all this it could set some decisive marker in the history of corporate consciousness.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTomI too expect governments to control and regulate companies, keeping citizens safe... but I would expect companies to do that in the first place. I'm certain that if BP was going down amidst all this it could set some decisive marker in the history of corporate consciousness.

I'm not sure why you would expect this from an individual, let alone a company with a bottom line, shareholders to appease, employees to oversee and pay, pensions and legally binding contracts to honor, taxes to pay, their own bills for rent, property, equipment, contracting...

The list goes on and on of course like all corporate responsibilities...

And you expect safety, ethics, and higher standards to move up on the priority list after a global financial crisis and during an American recression where bailouts and tax cuts are being tossed to those who help with the unemployment problem or were thought to be "too big to fail" and then failed???

I'm astonished your line of thought moves in that direction, especially before this ever happened (which was an accident no one could've predicted) it seems to make sense in a failing economy for a wealthy corporation to take advantages of perks by going "full steam ahead, provide employment" to tread water since demand for gas (people are driving less and having enough repossessions/foreclosures these days, along with job loss) has dropped, profits in general have dropped, stock value has dropped, but they still have to pay out their corporate bills including taxes...



Wouldn't you try to lessen your costs complying with criteria to benefit from tax breaks and stimulus money or driving up your profits and bottom line with your own strategies? BP has plenty of lobbyists so you know they have some tips on getting good with that type of program.

People do what they do because it benefits them, corporations do the same thing but it's more complicated and the stakes of "sink or swim" are far higher. I don't know how it is at all logical to assume anyone isn't trying to max out their profit margin (net worth has become self worth, lets just be honest) or how the first line of thought wouldn't be about how everything action and reaction would/could benefit them.

Let's just be honest that no one does anything without it serving their own purposes or without getting some kick back that makes what they do worthwhile in some way.

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
FireTom and EoN in contentious debate shocker.

Who'd have thought

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
Lulz, Durbs, that's a good one.

Just giving ye ol' 3 lbs muscle a little activity, no worries hon!

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
EpitomeOfNovice, here's the link for the Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=103193559729807#!/group.php?gid=130653010279954.
If anyone else wants to join, please feel free to.

Couscous, the food so nice they named it twice.

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: EpitomeOfNovice
Just giving ye ol' 3 lbs muscle a little activity, no worries hon!

With the amount of exercise it gets, I doubt it only weighs 3lbs

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
felt free

EoN: BP first quarter 2010 results are 5 BILLION $ (compared to 4th quarter 2009 that's a 135% increase!) ... not exactly a dwindling company wrenched from the global financial meltdown you would call it, would you now?

Right - and shareholders to appease (who just lost 15% in market value of their shares), employees to oversee and pay (and let getting killed - like in the current and previous Texas refinery disaster), last but not least pension funds to crunch (who were now affected by the recent loss of share values as well)...

Originally Posted By: LA TimesThe company [Halliburton] had four employees stationed on the rig at the time of the gulf accident, all of whom were rescued by the Coast Guard. It had completed the final cementing of the well and pipe 20 hours before the blowout April 20.

But at the time of the accident, "well operations had not yet reached the point requiring the placement of the final cement plug, which would enable the planned temporary abandonment of the well," the Halliburton statement said.

Experts were cautious about attributing blame, pending what are expected to be lengthy investigations by Congress and the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Coast Guard.

According to some news reports already the "Bush administration allowed safety precautions to be circumvented"

Originally Posted By: The ObserversWhile US senators grill BP over the ongoing oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, it has emerged that it was the US government itself - under George W. Bush - which allowed oil companies to leave out a safety device which would have prevented the explosion on 20 April. An American environmentalist tells us: "Our politicians are beholden to the oil companies".

(...)

That's because the Bush and Cheney administration allowed safety precautions to be circumvented. [The US discussed making acoustic switches a legal requirement several years ago, but it was decided by the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service, which is closely tied to the oil industry, that the devices, which cost 500,000 dollars (400,000 euros) each, were an unnecessary cost.

Wasn't G.W.Bush one of the oil slinger boys of Texas? Maybe the American public considers calling him on this one as well, instead of putting all the blame on Obama.

Now these "unnecessary costs" are going to have consequences beyond measure. This incident could teach big corporations a lesson, like: "Don't compromise on safety - it'll cost you ... a heck more in the end!" Thus no ethical motivators (as they seem not to belong in the corporate world (hardly seem to belong in the human realm)) - merely financial incentives.

They should not forget in the future that they live on the same planet and share the same responsibilities as the rest... AND shareholders as well as employees should watch that attitude more closely.

I dearly hope that it's going to break BP's neck. We were prepared to pay more for oil already and this would set an memorable precedence for the right people involved.

Durbs, it's quite amazing that we even argue on the same side of the fence, isn't it? That really proves the world to be grayscale not monochrome Any British Propositions from your side which you'd like to share with us then?

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
Meh not really, I don't really see the need to debate stuff on the interwebs.

I think it's totally wrong the CEOs family are being targetted by hate-mail and threats, which in turn is costing the UK tax-payer to fund the police protection.
He may be an idiot, but that's not his family's fault.

I also don't think BPs first quarter report is that relevant, their 2nd and 3rd quarter may be quite telling though.

Other than that, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTomEoN: BP first quarter 2010 results are 5 BILLION $ (compared to 4th quarter 2009 that's a 135% increase!) ... not exactly a dwindling company wrenched from the global financial meltdown you would call it, would you now?

I never said they were dwindling, just that they'd take advantage of the situation and it would effect their strategies and outlook/disposition in the midst of this climate (as further statistics would possibly back the probability when compared to other series of events and a time line). There is no doubt that a time of strife for some is a booming opportunity for others.

That's a good hardy-har-har for ya!

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 8th Jun 2010
I have so many opinions and extensive lines of thought on all the points you guys have made including those of you whom have contributed to the topic by pointing out this is not the first time something similar has occurred. I wrote a lengthy reply and then closed the window loosing it. So forgive me if I skip the exchanges FT and to the rest, forgive me skipping quotes to keep you up with the line of thought.

I have mixed feelings on when and where the government should be allowed to intervene or regulate certain aspects of the business world. Why do business where you are expected to follow safety standards at large costs when you can go to somewhere such as China(luckily not an oil rich country) and skip those things? I do believe that at present we have close to a happy medium but there is room for improvement.

Every alternative to oil presents its challenges and for the time being still requires development to be effective. Which leads me to believe, this is the unfortunate price we pay for living, but we can still learn from it.

A shift in the corporate paradigm is a lovely thought but unlikely without drastic measures being taken and harsh consequences enforced for deviation.

I would hope that every parent, caregiver and teacher in the world is now pointing their finger at this example of our carelessness with the planet, complacency to change in the face of eminent disaster, social irresponsibility and the failure of the leadership to safeguard the future in exchange for their own personal gain.

I would also hope that we can give them another example to look back at, how we did all we could to repair the damage, and how we responded to situation and climate that led to this event, but most of all, the measures we took to prevent them from experiencing the same fate.

The popcorn extends life... The popcorn expands consciousness...

Posted: 9th Jun 2010
*rubs eyes* this has been three consecutive posts without personal sentiments in a row... wow - I guess we're getting somewhere.

RC - couldn't agree more with what you said. Drilling oil happens largely outside China and personally I would suggest imposing heavy taxes for businesses that skip safety precautions. The message should be clear: "you don't keep a clean safety record - you gonna fry."

The problem with pointing fingers though is, that we're at both ends of it...

Durbs - I'm split over the issue. Whilst I don't condone violence or the threat of it, I feel that families should involve themselves more in the business and not just skim the benefits. That this again goes on tax-money proves how short sighted people act, when getting washed away with their thought patterns.

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 9th Jun 2010
As much as i enjoying lurking in yet another HoP soapbox competition, which heaven forbid that some one who actually works in the primary resource sector might get involved.... how bout a side discussion... what about the guys working on the rig...

article

some assorted trains of thought - some of which are my own and others arent.....

- Sue? oh come on! thats why you get paid the big bucks to work on an oil rig! if you dont want the risk, work in a call centre and get paid accordingly

- i know id feel pretty crap about causing one of the largest made-made environmental disasters in history... most engineers who work on the rigs i know are decent guys who want to raise a family, and ironically for their profession, take there family camping in the rainforest/go fishing for holiday... but its interesting what can happen in the corporate engineering machine..

- theres lots of discussions about accountability. unfortunately engineering is never 100% foolproof. mistakes happen - and no matter how many safeguards will go into to place, and how obvious the mistake seem afterwards, you will never have a foolproof process.
How many time does windows work perfectly? unfortunately in the primary resourse sector, the oversights can turn into monumental cluster-f***s as BP have clearly demonstrated not just through the incident itself, but the appalling way they have dealt with the situation.

- my personal opinion for this specific scenario, is that we are dealing with one of the deepest ocean drilling rigs EVER - and they only have a double redundancy safety system (meaning there is a primary failsafe, then a manual backup if the first safety measure doesnt work). If i was designing something on such a massive scale, i would ensure a triple of quadruple redundancy safety system. hell ive design quad redundancy systems for chemical processes on the surface of the earth, let alone 18000ft under the ocean.

- anyway all were are hearing is the bp press machine and the media press machine. it would be interesting to talk to the guys on the ground.

- i had 2 other points, but im hungry and my fingers are sore, so need to make a laksa stat!

**disclaimer** this post was made while sitting on a plastic chair, no doubt refined from petroleum products.
EDITED_BY: Dentrassi (1276078878)

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

Posted: 9th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: Dentrassimost engineers who work on the rigs i know are decent guys who want to raise a family, and ironically for their profession, take there family camping in the rainforest/go fishing for holiday...

i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

Posted: 10th Jun 2010
Dentrass: Right that! The mind-boggle is that individuals in private life actually might be completely sweet people, yet in their profession might act devastating to society and environment. I personally did know people working in the slaughterhouse as butchers... they go home to be dearest fathers and excellent buddies. I met people working on rigs... they even have a nature conserving attitude...

- Sue: You don't want to get sued, run call centers not oil rigs.

- Accidents: If you're running a company with multi-billion dollar profits handling some of the most polluting substances on the planet... why don't you care for backup plans, before the crap hits the fan? You already do have safety devices installed BUT - as you already consider the fan being hit by crap and knowing that engineering is not 100% foolproof - why don't you care for scenarios in case they don't work?

Exactly: personally I'm not as much concerned that it happened at all. I'm grumpy because BP has not dun its homework, leading to death and devastation... that's not a AAA+ company in my eyes.

- unfortunately we rarely hear the people on the ground... not on this one and not in the Israeli piracy act. It's all opinions based on available informations. And the media is reporting news they can sell to people... One reason why I find "hatred" to be completely inappropriate.

............. Laksa? *drools on floor*

just another

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 10th Jun 2010
go solar

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10276652.stm

the best smiles are the ones you lead to

Posted: 10th Jun 2010
https://omgsnaps.com/?id=230

fire is alive. it lives and breathes. it consumes and destroys. but we control it and live with it, we are fire dancers

Posted: 10th Jun 2010
Originally Posted By: FireTomDentrass: Right that! The mind-boggle is that individuals in private life actually might be completely sweet people, yet in their profession might act devastating to society and environment. I personally did know people working in the slaughterhouse as butchers... they go home to be dearest fathers and excellent buddies. I met people working on rigs... they even have a nature conserving attitude...

just another

I hope you and everyone else applies the same thinking to the CEOs, Politicians, Lawyers, Shareholders, Investors, and separate what people have to do for a living from their individuality and parts of their lives and thoughts no one outside of themselves (even at times inside of themselves) we (they) will never know. A job is a way of making money, it is not a reflection of who a person is or their personal views on anything regardless of industry.

People are people.

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)

Posted: 10th Jun 2010
Sign at a local BP station


Non-Https Image Link

O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

Posted: 10th Jun 2010
^^^
ROTFLMFAO

I use to work at one years ago and remember that sign! Little did they know...

~Rock on!~

"As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough"-Waking Life

(All you RLers this is epitome_of_lame *waves hello*)